Need 2nd opinion on Aset image

[nauman8287]

I am in process of buying a round brilliant cut diamond preferably H&A in 0.9c to 1.1c

Have read multiple forums and have developed a sound understanding of 4Cs and Tolkowsky proportions. Still learning on ASET images.

Visited a local top rated supplier and he has the following in his inventory. Can you guys please comment on ASET image. My understanding is that its a decent diamond but less bright (green) at griddles. Can you highlight other defects which I should pay attention to? I knownly kept the fluoresce for a better price. If i have to rate this diamond as per BrainGavin ASET chart, where will it stand?

​

 

[sledge]

The green spot you are seeing on the girdle is where they dug out. Probably an inclusion of sorts. Also there is some leakage under the table in that same vicinity.

Lastly this is not a H&A precision cut stone. They did provide H&A images and yes they form heart & arrow shapes but there is considerable variance in the symmetry of them. This tells us the cut is not precise.

Lastly when you look at the “polished” view you can see that the arrows are not clearly defined.

This is not close to a BGD H&A stone. Kudos for getting the added imagery though, that is normally pretty difficult. I would keep looking if that is a possibility.

Some additional articles that may help explain some of the things I mentioned.

Visible Effects of Painting & Digging on Superideal Diamonds

With grateful acknowledgment to John Pollard, Sergey Sivovolenko, AGSL and GIA Laboratories for valuable resources and input. Graphics produced with DiamCalc software by OctoNus. Note: This article pertains only to […]

www.pricescope.com

Hearts and Arrows Diamonds: Everything You Need To Know

Find out why a Hearts and Arrows diamond is considered to be so special and why they cost more. Discover the benefits here.

www.pricescope.com

 

[lovedogs]

This isnt a well cut stone, DEFINITELY not an H&A. I would keep looking or buy from one of the vendors who offer true ideal cut diamonds (whiteflash, brian gavin, jann paul, victor canera, continental, etc)

 

[lovedogs]

Ps if you share your budget and preferred color/clarity we are happy to try and help!

 

[nauman8287]

Lastly when you look at the “polished” view you can see that the arrows are not clearly defined.

Thank you, yes I missed that part, but how are the arrows shown in ASET image?

Also, the question comes into my mind that there are some diamonds which are good ones but not H&As, and there are some similar to H&A and then few are true H&As. If budget is a concern, then what should be the preference, Non-H&As or similar to H&As that are painted and dug?

 

[nauman8287]

Ps if you share your budget and preferred color/clarity we are happy to try and help!

I am based in Australia and the above one with a ring is priced at USD5900. I would like to stay around this value with the following parameters:

Carat size: 0.91c +
Clarity: SI1/VS2
Color: G/H
Cut: 3X
Flurocense: None-Faint

And will try to get a diamond as per the below specs (Source Paul Gian):

 

[sledge]

The arrows show as blue in the ASET image. And white in the arrows image. The reason I pointed out the polished view is well cut stones will have clearly defined arrows in that type of a view.

An example of what you’d like to see.

 

[nauman8287]

This isnt a well cut stone, DEFINITELY not an H&A. I would keep looking or buy from one of the vendors who offer true ideal cut diamonds (whiteflash, brian gavin, jann paul, victor canera, continental, etc)

Understood. So is it correct to define a diamond's cut in 3 categories i.e. Normal (3x), Similar to H&A and True H&A?

And if you say its not a true H&A, what observations made you say that other than Sledge's comment?

 

[sledge]

You don’t have to purchase H&A stone to achieve beauty. The tricky part is the shopping process. Proportions help us narrow the field but advanced images help us get to a solid decision.

One example that hits close to your budget and is a true H&A super ideal.

$6,475 USD wire price. No games. Just awesomeness.

Diamond | 0.905 ct H VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4522364

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.905 carat H color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4522364

www.whiteflash.com

 

[sledge]

To answer your other question, GIA 3X is a very broad spectrum. Lots of subpar stones that don’t deserve their top mark and then some nice ones that aren’t H&A but still great stones. Again, it’s a matter of finding them. Narrowing using the proportions you listed is a good start but it’s not the end game. You need to look at photos, videos and advanced images. The problem being most vendors don’t provide advanced images.

To help narrow it further you could also try searching for stones with AGS000 lab reports. They will have computer generated ASET images on the report so it gives some assurance if buying from a vendor that doesn’t provide advanced images. While many AGS000 stones are also H&A stones, not all them are so they aren’t easy to find.

Another option. Similar price @ $6,561 USD wire. I prefer the proportions on this one a little more.

Diamond | 0.916 ct H VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4555948

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.916 carat H color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4555948

www.whiteflash.com

 

[nauman8287]

The arrows show as blue in the ASET image. And white in the arrows image.

So you are saying the idea scope image of arrows should be black instead of white, right?

$6,475 USD wire price. No games. Just awesomeness.

Thank you for pointing that out, I think this is just the diamond. My above budget is with the ring itself which is roughly around USD 1000.

Another option. Similar price @ $6,561 USD wire. I prefer the proportions on this one a little more.

Thank you, I'll have a look into it as well

 

[nauman8287]

Any comments on this diamond? Its big and a single inclusion. Few dugs at the griddles but rest looks fine. Price at USD 5816.

Diamond | 0.952 ct I VS1 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4473418

This fabulous 0.952 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS1 and color grade of I.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4473418

www.whiteflash.com

 

[sledge]

Just a quick breakdown.

ASET image = evaluates light performance and uses red to show max light return, green to show reduced light return and blue to identify contrast. Leakage will be white or black depending on the background color used to photo the stone.

H&A images = evaluates symmetry and can be an array of colors. Red and blue seem to be popular. These images show the arrows and hearts as white.

Idealscope image = also evaluates light performance but only uses red to identify light return. Light red or pink is normally associated with weaker light return. White or black is used to detect leakage (again depending on background color). And yes, the arrows who up as black in this image.

 

[sledge]

Any comments on this diamond? Its big and a single inclusion. Few dugs at the griddles but rest looks fine. Price at USD 5816.

Diamond | 0.952 ct I VS1 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4473418

This fabulous 0.952 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS1 and color grade of I.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4473418

www.whiteflash.com

This is a “near miss” H&A stone didn’t quite meet all the stringent criteria of their top line, “A Cut Above” or ACA. Consequently this is an “Expert Select” or ES stone.

The great thing about these stones is they are better than the bulk of regular GIA 3X stones and they are discounted from ACA prices yet give you the SAME access to WF’s amazing upgrade policy. Essentially you can trade stones as long as the stone you trade to is of equal or higher value. This can be very advantageous since there are no other restrictions. This also means you could trade the ES in later on a bigger ACA and get full value. Or you may find another ES. Who knows. But it allows you to the same perks which is the big win here.

As far as proportions, performance, etc it is a great stone! If you get serious about it you could always contact WF and ask them to do a side by side comparison of it against the two H stones I recommended. They can take additional comparison photos and videos upon request and they will also provide honest feedback about their review of each stone.

Alas, I am not sure the ring you had selected but WF offers some very affordable solitaires.

 

[lovedogs]

Any comments on this diamond? Its big and a single inclusion. Few dugs at the griddles but rest looks fine. Price at USD 5816.

Diamond | 0.952 ct I VS1 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4473418

This fabulous 0.952 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS1 and color grade of I.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4473418

www.whiteflash.com

Much better than the original one you picked! I think it's a great choice.

 

[nauman8287]

Much better than the original one you picked! I think it's a great choice.

If the H&A is getting out of budget, what would be my next best option and what parameters should I look at? I read that its not necessary for H&A to perform better than ideal cut. There are some good ideal cuts which can outperform H&A. Is there really a fire/brilliance/etc performance difference by a huge margin in H&A diamond?

 

[nauman8287]

Alas, I am not sure the ring you had selected but WF offers some very affordable solitaires.

I am looking at Halo ring options priced around $1800 on whiteflash

 

[momofive]

I think Sledge answered your above question that the ES stones are a great second option to H&A, as they are not a true H&A to make it into their top ACA diamond selections, but they will still perform very well. Did you buy the 0.952? I see it’s sold.

 

[nauman8287]

I think Sledge answered your above question that the ES stones are a great second option to H&A, as they are not a true H&A to make it into their top ACA diamond selections, but they will still perform very well. Did you buy the 0.952? I see it’s sold.

No I didn’t. I am exploring options and at the same time I am learning and discussing here on this forum

 

[tyty333]

I think there is some confusion with H&A designation. I'll try to explain. @sledge jump in if you have time (
or anyone else who wants to).

What we consider H&A is a precision of symmetry and can be seen when looking at the pavilion side of a stone with an
H&A viewer. Stones that are designated H&A can have angles that complement each other or angles that dont
complement each other (less likely though). You have to have more than just H&A to have a nice stone. Its just a piece of the formula if you will.

That .95 I/VS2 DOES HAVE H&A symmetry. It did not make the ACA line for some reason but you need to ask
why it's a near miss. (probably due to the painting/digging). It is still an H&A stone.

Edit...I see you did not buy it or put it on hold so never mind about asking.

 

[tyty333]

I can no longer edit my last post but I guess it would have been easier and more complete to just provide this link...

Hearts and Arrows Diamonds: Everything You Need To Know

Find out why a Hearts and Arrows diamond is considered to be so special and why they cost more. Discover the benefits here.

www.pricescope.com

 

[nauman8287]

Thank you every one for response.

 

[nauman8287]

Alright guys @lovedogs @tyty333 @sledge have been spending some time on search as well as with local jeweller. I have two options

1: 0.91c GVS2



2- this one is 1.1c KSi1 from WF. The reason I went with K as they most appear White from face and but yellowish from bottom but since I am going with Halo ring design, bottom/side view will be mostly hidden. And off-course the cost is a major factor. I haven’t seen the K color physically yet but have watched videos shared but WF and Beyond4Cs. Is that the right approach I am going with? Please do share any article/video if you feel is good for learning.

Diamond | 1.103 ct K SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4123886

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.103 carat K color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4123886

www.whiteflash.com

Thanks

 

[tyty333]

Which setting from WF are you considering @nauman8287 ?

 

[nauman8287]

Which setting from WF are you considering @nauman8287 ?

As far as design is concerned, preference is for White Gold Simon G. MR1811 Passion Halo (this is what she is keen on) https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...passion-halo-diamond-engagement-ring-4886.htm

or 18k White Gold Legato Micro Pave Diamond Engagement Ring

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...o-micro-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-1011.htm

 

[Heathcat24]

Hi there, @nauman8287 ! Congrats on your upcoming engagement!

I just wanted to chime in here because I LOVE my K color diamonds! Most of my stones are K color or lower, mainly because that is the area I am willing to compromise on and where I feel I get the best bang for my buck. I want the BEST CUT imaginable and I am willing to pay a premium for that part. As long as it it eye clean, I am good with the clarity. (And, of course, I want the biggest I can get! Lol!)

That being said, I can see definitely warmth in my K stones. Not necessarily yellow, but warmth. It doesn't bother me, but it is there.

I have some little J color studs that I bought jackets for. There is definitely a difference in color between the higher color stones in the earring jacket and the center J stone. The jacket stones are F/G and look noticably whiter. I also have a K color stone in a halo pendant, and there is a color difference there, too. (That may be my favorite piece of jewelry, though, so, again, it doesn't bother me!)

So, you might want to ask Liza (I love her! Tell her "hi" for me!) to show you that K stone in a halo setting or next to some melee and take some good pictures.

My only colorless stone is my engagement ring (see my avatar.) My husband picked it out pre-Pricescope and it is an F VVS2. I always tease him that it will always be my highest color diamond! Haha!

I'm not trying to deter you from the K stone but I just wanted you to be aware! I can't wait to see what you pick!

 

[sledge]

I agree the K stone from WF will face up white. But it’s important to remember how color is graded and that is from the side/pavilion view.

Also every color grade has “range”. @Heathcat24 was picking up on it in her explanation. For simplicity we will say high, medium and low. So a high K would mean almost a J, whereas a medium is solidly in the middle and a low K would be almost an L.

Where range gets tricky is it “grows” as you go down in color. So there is very little variance in D stones. And a G stone will have more variance than D but less variance than K. Whereas K will have the most variance (in these examples) and depending where the specific stone is in that range variation may determine if you are okay with it or not.

My 2 cents is that K is a risky move. Before doing so I would want to make sure the wearer of the ring has seen a few K stones and is okay with the color. Normally women are better at detecting subtle shade differences moreso than men so it’s plausible you and she have two different opinions about K color. It’s also true that even when women may be more color sensitive they are sometimes tolerant meaning they see it but it doesn’t bother them. Again you want to please the wearer so knowing her input on the matter is what should guide your color decision.

As an example, knowing my wife’s color preference I would never buy her a K without her blessing. Not because K is bad (marketing hype says D > K) but because I know she prefers less color even though she is tolerant.

As far as your setting choices go I agree that some of the pavilion will be hidden but you will have white gold and/or smaller melee stones that may contrast against the stone. At the least I think it would be wise to ask WF how this stone compares in range to other K stones. Maybe even have them do some top and side views of this K against another K and G (as that is your competition) and maybe an I or J as you may find some compromise less than G but higher than K.

Also maybe ask if they have either setting in stock and can take a picture of the stone loosely in the setting. It may give you an idea how it looks as a completed piece.

 

[sledge]

While these obviously aren’t the specific stones in question I think it more accurately addresses true differences in color. We often think of lower colors as “yellow” but in reality they are different shades.

It still has to be right for each person but I like these views for that reason.

 

[nauman8287]

I agree the K stone from WF will face up white. But it’s important to remember how color is graded and that is from the side/pavilion view.

Also every color grade has “range”. @Heathcat24 was picking up on it in her explanation. For simplicity we will say high, medium and low. So a high K would mean almost a J, whereas a medium is solidly in the middle and a low K would be almost an L.

Where range gets tricky is it “grows” as you go down in color. So there is very little variance in D stones. And a G stone will have more variance than D but less variance than K. Whereas K will have the most variance (in these examples) and depending where the specific stone is in that range variation may determine if you are okay with it or not.

My 2 cents is that K is a risky move. Before doing so I would want to make sure the wearer of the ring has seen a few K stones and is okay with the color. Normally women are better at detecting subtle shade differences moreso than men so it’s plausible you and she have two different opinions about K color. It’s also true that even when women may be more color sensitive they are sometimes tolerant meaning they see it but it doesn’t bother them. Again you want to please the wearer so knowing her input on the matter is what should guide your color decision.

As an example, knowing my wife’s color preference I would never buy her a K without her blessing. Not because K is bad (marketing hype says D > K) but because I know she prefers less color even though she is tolerant.

As far as your setting choices go I agree that some of the pavilion will be hidden but you will have white gold and/or smaller melee stones that may contrast against the stone. At the least I think it would be wise to ask WF how this stone compares in range to other K stones. Maybe even have them do some top and side views of this K against another K and G (as that is your competition) and maybe an I or J as you may find some compromise less than G but higher than K.

Also maybe ask if they have either setting in stock and can take a picture of the stone loosely in the setting. It may give you an idea how it looks as a completed piece.

Correct Il try to see couple of K stones or atleast will ask how this K color stone is compared to other K stones

 

[nauman8287]

Hi there, @nauman8287 ! Congrats on your upcoming engagement!

I just wanted to chime in here because I LOVE my K color diamonds! Most of my stones are K color or lower, mainly because that is the area I am willing to compromise on and where I feel I get the best bang for my buck. I want the BEST CUT imaginable and I am willing to pay a premium for that part. As long as it it eye clean, I am good with the clarity. (And, of course, I want the biggest I can get! Lol!)

That being said, I can see definitely warmth in my K stones. Not necessarily yellow, but warmth. It doesn't bother me, but it is there.

I have some little J color studs that I bought jackets for. There is definitely a difference in color between the higher color stones in the earring jacket and the center J stone. The jacket stones are F/G and look noticably whiter. I also have a K color stone in a halo pendant, and there is a color difference there, too. (That may be my favorite piece of jewelry, though, so, again, it doesn't bother me!)

So, you might want to ask Liza (I love her! Tell her "hi" for me!) to show you that K stone in a halo setting or next to some melee and take some good pictures.

My only colorless stone is my engagement ring (see my avatar.) My husband picked it out pre-Pricescope and it is an F VVS2. I always tease him that it will always be my highest color diamond! Haha!

I'm not trying to deter you from the K stone but I just wanted you to be aware! I can't wait to see what you pick!

Yeah Liza is really helpful. Ill ask her to get me some pictures. Thanks for the input. Really helpful