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Need advice - 0.9 or 1 carat?

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DollSecrets

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2010
Messages
11
Hello!

My SO and I have started to look around for my engagement ring. Gosh... There''s so much to consider, I''m getting more uncertain with new knowledge each time we went to a jeweler. All along, I thought I wanted 1 carat with as many facets as possible (I like all things shiny )
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. But now we realized a good Ideal cut can bring out the brilliance very well too. Some say that it''s still the safest bet to get an Ideal cut.

Another issue is the carat size... Should we just go ahead to get 1 carat if we are not considering anything lesser than 0.9carat? My SO wants me to be happy, but I don''t wish to burn his pocket. We have been looking at F color, VS1-2.

All advice appreciated!
 
Oh, the reason why I want to consider 0.9 carat is because it''s almost as big as 1 carat, yet the price quoted to us is much lower. But then again, some recommends that since it''s 0.9, might as well get a 1 carat. I''m really confused.

Thanks!
 
have you considered going to G/H/I color or SI clarity to get the 1 carat size? Also maybe look online because you might be able to find better prices...

you may want to try

Whiteflash
Brian Gavin Diamonds
Good Old Gold
James Allen
Engagement Rings Direct

I think there is a thread somewhere listing all of the vendors recommended by PS...
 
Diameter difference between 0.9c and 1.0c is about 0.25mm, from 6.25mm to about 6.5mm, roughly. But the jump in price/carat is significant at the 1 carat mark.

Clarity, you can go lower, an eye-clean SI1 is essentially the same as an IF stone.

Color, G/H is still white, you will not be able to tell the difference once mounted, unless side by side with a D color.

Cut is the most important.

Use the cut adviser as a rejection tool.

https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp

Keep the score below 2 and within the white and green outline.
 
Hi DollSecrets-Many PSers find G SI1 is a sweet spot in ideal cut diamonds--bright white and totally eyeclean. Personally, if the difference is more than like $200 I would rather know that I got a good deal at just under 1 carat than hit the 1 carat mark and pay the premium....

Now if you love size (like MANY PSers) I would drop to a lower color, probably I or J and get the biggest diamond I could--again if it is ideal it will still be white and BIG:-)

For example for just under $5000 you could get .9 G SI1

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6889/

or $5900 1.2 J SI1

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2175381.htm

or

this seems to be a steal .9 G SI1 (check the crown and pavilion angles) at $3600, it''s ideal cut, but I don''t think technically hearts and arrows

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1264683.asp
 
Thanks for your prompt replies!

May I know if 2 similar (specification wise) diamonds may differ in brilliance? We went to several jewelers. So far, it seemed that the diamonds with AGS cert look more brilliant (in naked eye) than those GIA certified we''d seen.

I don''t think we will go lower than F ''cause we were looking at D-E initially. :) All jewelers we''d met told us that SI will affect the brilliance of the diamond, thus not as ''shiny''. Is that true?
 
Date: 5/2/2010 10:19:23 PM
Author: DollSecrets
Thanks for your prompt replies!

May I know if 2 similar (specification wise) diamonds may differ in brilliance? We went to several jewelers. So far, it seemed that the diamonds with AGS cert look more brilliant (in naked eye) than those GIA certified we''d seen.

I don''t think we will go lower than F ''cause we were looking at D-E initially. :) All jewelers we''d met told us that SI will affect the brilliance of the diamond, thus not as ''shiny''. Is that true?
Click to expand...

Depends on the angles of the stone. Use the cut adviser mentioned above.

SI are not created equal, some will not look any different from an IF, some will have visible inclusions, case by case.
 
Date: 5/2/2010 10:19:23 PM
Author: DollSecrets
All jewelers we''d met told us that SI will affect the brilliance of the diamond, thus not as ''shiny''. Is that true?
Click to expand...


No, it''s not true. Each SI stone needs to be evaluated individually; there are some SI grades which will have eye-visible (to you, if you have good up-close vision) and some which will appear the same to your eye as a stone with a higher clarity grade. It depends on the inclusions, the stringency of the lab that graded the stone, the lighting, and your individual eyesight -- i.e., how acute your up-close vision is. It is true that some inclusions may affect brilliancy of the stone, but not every stone at the SI level will be negatively affected by inclusions. Again, it''s a case-by-case evaluation.

When I was looking for a diamond and shopping at retail stores, I found that retail stores stressed color (D-F) and clarity (nothing lower than VS) over cut quality. Coming here to PS, I found that it''s cut quality that makes the most difference in how beautiful the stone is, not color, not clarity. High color and high clarity do add significantly to the price of the stone, however. So you can understand why most retail stores push high color and high clarity -- they make more money.
 
Hi Slq47, Bella_mezzo,

Thanks for the recommendations! What should I look out for when purchasing online?
 
Date: 5/2/2010 10:07:59 PM
Author: slg47
have you considered going to G/H/I color or SI clarity to get the 1 carat size? Also maybe look online because you might be able to find better prices...


you may want to try


Whiteflash

Brian Gavin Diamonds

Good Old Gold

James Allen

Engagement Rings Direct


I think there is a thread somewhere listing all of the vendors recommended by PS...
Click to expand...

Here is a list of vendors who advertise on PS ( support the forum and many post on the forum, too).

vendors
 
Honestly, if you are super picky and want a "mind clean stone", listening to what you are saying, I would just get an F-G VS2-SI1 (with the lower being what I would get and the upper what sounds like is totally mind clean for you) and hit 1 ct if that''s important to you--stay just underneath if $/a good deal for the same look is more important.

Then I would look at Brian Gavin Diamonds Signature H&A ideal (tomorrow when their site is back up) and Whiteflash ACA ideal and Good Old Gold--the ones that are ideal with the lifetime guarantee.

Your ring will be gorgeous no matter what!!!
 
Hi Stone-cold11, SaraPJ,

If we''re getting loose online, we won''t be able to take a look at the SI before purchasing. It''s same with retailers if we order from them (unless they have ready stock). This is a huge concern for me. Can I say that it''s safer to get VS quality if brilliancy is more important?

Any advice on 0.9 or 1 carat? Is it true that 0.9 is a ''better buy'' coz of pricing?
 
OH, and by picky I mean "a discerning customer"
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Nothing at all wrong with being picky
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Thanks Bella_mezzo! I will certainly take a look at your recommendations! Seems like most PSers trust briangavin diamonds. ;) Can I know what is H&A?
 
Eye-clean. http://journal.pricescope.com/Articles/78/1/What-is-an-Eye-Clean-Diamond--.aspx

Each vendor has their own definition, so work with them, define yours and use the return period to check it out if it meets your expectation.

Best buy would be those just below the magic numbers. 0.9c and 1.0c are both magic numbers where there is a jump in $/carat. So if you can find a 0.95-0.98c, well cut stone, those are the most worth it as it looks just like 1.0c and still not take the $/carat hit.
 
H&A is "Hearts and Arrows", a pattern that will be seen in round (and some newer square cuts) with precise optical symmetry...

here is the PS tutorial on H&A

tutorial
 
H&A is Hearts and Arrows (BGD H&A and Whiteflash ACA are pretty much the same awesome cut b/ Brian Gavin introduced the ACA when he worked at Whiteflash).

I have a K SI1 H&A pendant from brian Gavin diamonds and it looks very white on the neck, sparkles like crazy, and only shows a little bit on antique white body color (definitely not yellow or brown, more like an ivory) when tilted and scrutinized in certain lights. I couldn''t be happier, b/c dropping to K and just under a .5ct saved me about $750-$1000
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Also, I have F VS1 ACA earrings from Whiteflash, little .25 each sparklers that are bezel set on leverbacks. They sparkle like the dickens too and are definitely very white. The only reason they are F though is b/c they were melee (.25 is the biggest melee WF carries I believe).

If I were buying, I''d get G SI1 H&A or ACA in a heartbeat. I had excellent customer service from each and the diamonds are amazing.
 
perhaps it might be useful to see the difference in size between 0.9 and 1.0 carat in person (you will want to compare well cut stones of similar spread), if you can go to a store and see, also you could compare E/F/G colors and see what is most important to you, that way you know how to best maximize your budget to make you happy
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then you can use this to shop online! i believe many of the vendors will evaluate stones for you and determine their ''eye-cleanliness'' to your specifications, or you can go with VS...
 
Thanks Stone-cold11, slq47!

Now I am quite certain that I will want a 0.95(+/-) carat.
I didn''t know that there are Ideal cut w/o H&A! Silly me... All the retail shops we went to have showed us H&A. :)
 
Date: 5/2/2010 10:35:50 PM
Author: DollSecrets
Hi Stone-cold11, SaraPJ,


If we're getting loose online, we won't be able to take a look at the SI before purchasing. It's same with retailers if we order from them (unless they have ready stock). This is a huge concern for me. Can I say that it's safer to get VS quality if brilliancy is more important?


Any advice on 0.9 or 1 carat? Is it true that 0.9 is a 'better buy' coz of pricing?
Click to expand...

Yes, you will save money by staying below the 1.0 carat mark. Some people like to own a 1 carat stone just to be able to say that they have a one carat diamond. But I would definitely look at diamonds in the .90 - .99 range first, to see what's out there. You will save some money that way.

If you stick with Good Old Gold, Whiteflash, High Performance Diamonds, Nice Ice, Brian Gavin Diamonds, and James Allen -- and stick with their signature, in-house stones, the vendors will be able to look at the stone for you and tell you about the color and clarity. A trusted vendor can give you their opinion of how eye-clean the stone is, but you will still need to determine for yourself what your own standards are. The inclusions in an SI stone or even an I1 stone may not affect brilliancy, but you may be able to see them with your eyes, and that's a problem for many people.

So my best advice is to look at a number of vendors' websites, and make sure you're looking at stones that are in-house (the listing will note that) and make a preliminary list of stones that look good to you, from several vendors. Call or e-mail the vendors and do some comparing on price, color, clarity, size, and talk to the vendors about the stones that seem the best candidates for you.

Some vendors -- Wink from High Performance Diamonds, Jonathan from Good Old Gold, Todd from Nice Ice -- will make videos of the diamonds for you. I found this to be very helpful when I was shopping for a diamond.

The vendors that have been recommended to you have excellent return policies, so if, for some reason, you buy a diamond and receive it and it is not what you wanted, you can return it and choose another -- from the same vendor or another vendor.

You just have to plunge in and start comparing stones -- and vendors! Because choosing a good vendor who will take the time to educate you and help you find the perfect stone for you makes the online shopping experience so much easier.

ETA: I bought my H&A diamond from Wink at High Performance Diamonds. I chose Wink after looking at several vendors' websites, and contacting several vendors with questions. He had what I was looking for, was able to make a video for me, and I liked working with him. There are many other great vendors on Pricescope; "interview" several of them, and choose the one that is best for you.
 
under 1 ct will definitely save you money.

I would have no qualms at all about an SI1 from BGD, WF, GOG, if they say it is eyeclean it is (and you can clarify what eyeclean means to you--eg from 4 inches, squinting, in full sun:-0 and they''ll you if the stone fits that description or not.

...I have examined my SI1 with a 10X loupe and a magnifying glass and can''t find the inclusion anywhere.

Previous posters have stuck theirs under microscopes and the inclusion wasn''t visible.
 
Thanks all! May I know if AGS certified diamonds are more consistent? Coz I saw GIA ones, and they are not as good (naked eye).
 
I do prefer AGS if buying blindly by highest cut grade a lab affords. However AGS0 and GIA Ex do overlap a significant amount, so it's very possible for there to be no discernable difference in performance between two given stones from each of these labs - and in that case the GIA is probably a better buy since AGS0s carry a premium.


Your safest option is to buy first by sight, and if that's not possible by the numbers.
 
if you look at the Holloway Cut Advisor, the AGSO is a much smaller region than GIA Excellent cut.,

but in general AGS and GIA are the top labs for grading, I am not sure why you noticed such a difference in the diamonds you saw, maybe one of the experts can chime in (I am just obsessed with this website and this is a distraction from writing about DNA origami
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)
 
So my FI almost bought me a .9 ct stone until he saw one on me. He could tell I just was not happy with it. If that is what he could afford, I would have been very happy, but I would have done something more with the setting (i.e. pave in the shank). He ended up getting me a 1.15 F VS 2, it was more expensive, but I love it and love the size. Also, I am going with a lower priced setting than he was expecting because with the size, I am happy with a solitaire. With the .9 stone, I probably would have wanted to upgrade as soon as possible.

What I would do is go to a store that has pre-mounted stones (like Tiffany's) and try on different sized rings. If you don't see a significant size difference between the 0.9 and 1 ct stone on your hand, save the money! But if you are not going to be happy with it, than you may want to balance the other components of the diamond (color, clarity ect), and the setting to make the ring fit your budget.

Also, I have good eyesight, so I wanted a VS diamond. But there are some nice eye clean S1's. As for color, I have diamond studs, one is an F and the other is a G. I have no idea which is which because they are both white to me. So I would look different colored diamonds and figure out how "color sensitive you are."
 
Hi LtlFirecracker, I did try on 0.9 and 1 carat. It seems that there isn''t much difference maybe because 0.9 looked ''quite oversize'' on me already. My fingers are long and too skinny
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. I agree with you that the SI I''d seen (till date) in retails are not satisfactory. But guess I may consider since most PSers recommend it, especially from those reputable online vendors.
 
Hello yssie, slq47,

I really was taken back by one AGS0 diamond. So far we''d seen many GIA in Singapore, they looked ''okay''. Only 1 retail I went to showed me GIA Ex, it looked better. But it''s the AGS0 one that really ''shines''. I''m not sure how true is that, just based on my experience till date. That''s why I would like to ask for opinions here.
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If it has some basis, then AGS0 cert will set us SGD2000+ more. Is it worth it?
 
Well, like I said - depends on the numbers. If you find a GIA certed diamond with the same or similar proportions it will look identical to that AGS0. And in that case the extra for the fact that the stone comes with a paper from AGS is obviously not worth it. BUT if you love that AGS0 and haven't found anything that compares, then it's certainly worth it..
 
I was going to say you have to take your finger size into account. I have size 6 fingers. If I had smaller fingers, I would have been more than happy with a .9 ct stone.

As for the VS vs SI. Figure out YOUR definition of eye clean. Do you want the diamond clean from the top only? From the sides when mounted? From the sides when loose? Than, when talking to vendors, explain your definition of eyeclean and ask them if the stone meets that criteria. Any of the reputable vendors the others have listed should be willing to do that.

I have to tell you, I have a very clean VS2, and if looking at it from the side about 6 inches away, I can see 2 tiny white specs. But they do not bother me, because from a normal viewing distance (face to hand on table or lab), I don't see them at all. I think the GOG website said you really have to go VS1 or above to get a totally clean stone from all angles. For me, that was not necessary and not worth the money. If someone sitting next to me saw my ring from the top or side and could not see anything, that was good enough for me regardless of clarity grade.
 
Don''t blind go for AGS stone as they issue 2 main types of report. One is the performance based cut grading, where they do ray tracing computer simulation, using the actual dimension of the stone, the Platinum/Diamond Quality Document type. The other is just a proportion based cut grading, similar to what GIA use, less the large rounding of GIA, the Gold/Diamond Quality Report type, these are less likely to be well cut.

Maybe buy your own Idealscope/ASET scope and go hunting? http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=2&ShowAdd=Y
 
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