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Need advice and opinions! Engagement ring rock! (Sortof URGENT)

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drewbot

drewbot

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
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44
Ok here's the short version (as short as possible). I got a ring for my girlfriend a while ago. It was just a present/promise ring, and we agreed to make it a wedding band. So it's a 1.5 carat ring:


It is shown on this page: http://www.fredmeyerjewelers.com/Products/EW_AnniversaryRings/996181.aspx?p=1

So I need an engagement solitaire. Not sure what will fit up against it, but my girlfriend has her eye on a band, so I"m going to figure it out and perhaps get the band for her. Either way, I'm interested in the right rock.

I would like to get a laser enhanced ring that will look good with the naked eye up against the aforementioned band. Said band doesn't have any papers or ratings on the rocks, but they look darn good.

I want "enhanced natural" because its cheaper, and I can't afford much. I'm looking at $900-$1500 or so. I've checked the market values, read reviews, etc. The "safe" way to go is GIA cert and the not so safe way is EGL, apparently. So help me compare to see if i'm on the right track. I've found two VERY similary rated and sized rocks, with similar prices. One comes with a band and I am pretty sure the company will sell the loose rock for a couple-hundred bucks less (?). Either way, Here are the two:

I bargained this one down to $1535:
EGL Certified
Weight: 1.23ct
Cut: Round Brilliant
Clarity: SI2 Clarity Enhanced (laser)
Color: G
Dimensions: 6.86 – 6.83 x 4.14 mm
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Graining: Nil
Florescence: None
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&item=150317645461

This one, with the band, is going for $1810:
GIA certified
Weight: 1.17ct
Cut: Round Brilliant
Clarity: SI1 - SI2 Clarity Enhanced (laser)
Color: G
Dimentions: 6.68x6.70x4.14MM
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Set Type: Prong
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-17CT-GSI2-ROUND-DIAMOND-ENGAGEMENT-SOLITAIRE-RING_W0QQitemZ250335721729QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDiamond_Solitaire_Rings?hash=item250335721729&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A15%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318


I have of course many questions. I realize i can spend days in the FAQ but I can only gain so much info on my own. I would like opinions as to:

If these rocks are presentable as engagement rings against the original "5 rock" band. Should I go down in size, up in clarity? Are these good starting prices to look at or am I getting padded suckers' prices?

Am I missing important info on the cut and other stuff like that? Is there a better place to start looking around? I need any help I can get. I would like to stick above the 1.1 range but I don't even know how a solitare would set up against the band that we already have. I need to make my best guess! It's gotta be a suprise so I can't just walk into the store and let her pick the one she likes.

Please advise! I'm getting lost here! Thanks in advance!
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Welcome to PS, drewbot.

Have you talked to your GF about what she would like? What are her preferences?
 
My understanding is that GIA does not grade clarity enhanced stones. So be careful of what you buy. The enhancing material eventually wears out.

None of the labs grade clarity enhanced stones. You need to read the fine print when buying on eBay. These probably are not stones worth buying. Save your money and get something smaller and in your price range.
 
Personally I would rather go down in size (and maybe color) and get something less included. In the first stone I can see lots of inclusions that would
probably prevent it from being what I would consider a pretty stone (thats without evaluating the numbers). There arent even good enough pictures
of the second diamond to see if its nice or not. I wish you could talk to someone (that was trustworthy) that could look at some diamonds and tell
you if they were eye clean. I guess it all depends on what you are looking for. Personally, I say pass on these 2.
 
As far as GIA goes, from what I understand they will grade laser enhanced stones but will not grade those stones that are color treated or fracture filled.
(I guess because the laser enhancment is permanent and the color treatments are not)
 
Check their website. They say they do not grade clarity enhanced stones. How could they when in a few years when the material is gone the grade would change.
 
IMO...don''t even think about buying a enhanced stone.
 
I agree. I''d buy a simulant for now and save for a good quality natural stone. If it were me, I''d rather have a .75 ct. good quality diamond over anything clarity enhanced. If you bought from a jeweler who does trade-ins, you could increase the size later.

If you decide on clarity enhanced even though we advise against it, you would do well to avoid buying one internationally that would be very hard to return or challenge the quality. That first one especially would be out of the question. Just realize that eventually the stone may loose it''s filling and it may be worthless and in need of replacement.

One more thing, do not buy the setting until you settle on a diamond. The prong part (head) of rings are made for a specific size stone, so you want to be sure you are getting a ring that properly fits the diamond.
 
Ok, lets try this again...from what I understand there are 2 types of "clarity enhanced" stones. There are those that are lasered to get rid of
carbon specks which is permanent. Once you laser a tunnel to the carbon speck and then "wash" it out it is permanently gone. Once again,
from what I understand, these are the ones that GIA will grade.

The other types of clarity enhanced stones are those treated with a coating or fractured filled. These may not be permanent and therefore
GIA will not grade them.

I will have to go check the GIA page to see specifically what they say (be right back
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).
 
Yes, GIA will issue a report if a stone is laser drilled but not filled. However, the second stone you posted does not have a GIA report. It said it has a report from an independent grading company (GIG) that employs GIA gemologists. If anyone one claims to have a GIA grading report get the number and you can look at it on the GIA website to verify the details.
 
I would not spend hard-earned money on either of those.

Run run run from the second one (the 1.17 ct)--the seller has terrible feedback, 98.7%. I would never buy anything significant from an ebay seller with less than 99.5% feedback. Here''s a couple of their negative feedbacks: "Item was described as an S2 turned out to be industrial grade." "RING WAS LOW QUALITY ,DIAMOND ,CLOUDY ,POOR COLOR AND CLARITY ." And that''s a generic picture, not a photo of the ring you would get. And there''s no certificate from a reliable lab.

The first one, the 1.23 ct, looks more promising. They have good feedback, it''s (supposedly) a photo of the actual stone you would get, it looks possibly well cut, and it (supposedly) comes with an EGL certificate, which is a major lab. However, the company is overseas, as a previous poster pointed out, which would nix it for me. No way I would send that much money out of the reach of US fraud laws.

If I were you, I would spend the money on something smaller from one of the trusted vendors who posts on this board, not ebay. Or, as someone else suggested, get a CZ and save up for a diamond.
 
THANK YOU! didn''t know about the GIA report reference to the GIA website. Very useful info.

I totally noticed the "GIG" and thought that something was slightly off.

On another note-- I fully understand everyone''s reservations about clarity enhancement. The inclusion fills are not permanent and they will not be graded by GIA.

From my understanding, GIA is one of the safest ways to go, and they will only grade laser clarity enhanced (permanent) stones which are only slightly enhanced. In other words, they are very conservative about which clarity enhanced stones they will even look at. I don''t know what they look like up close, but I''m definitely in the eye-clean market. I''m not sure what Mind clean is but i''m not going to "lye" to my girlfriend. CZ/moissonite is out of the question. It is dead ugly.

My Girlfrend wants something larger than a carat for sure. I think that 1.1-1.25 is about the range I''m interested in for various reasons. Otherwise it just needs to be eye-clean.

So what would you guys reccomend? Is it an absolute no for clarity enhancement? I read on various webpages that the whole idea of clarity enhancement just bugs the heck out of dealers simply because consumer preference doesn''t change much unless they''re more interested in the grading report than the jewelry.

So aside from ebay where does one find a ring for a good price?

Thanks!
 
CZ is not "dead ugly."

Mind clean basically means that a stone is free of mental imperfections that a shopper imposes on otherwise perfectly good stones. It came into usage after the term eye clean.

Does it also have to be round?
 
Well CZ isn''t dead ugly, but sitting up against real diamonds it''s certainly noticeable.

Yeah it pretty much has to be round. She wants a big round rock.
 
Date: 12/30/2008 9:27:26 PM
Author: drewbot
Well CZ isn''t dead ugly, but sitting up against real diamonds it''s certainly noticeable.

Yeah it pretty much has to be round. She wants a big round rock.
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don''t they all
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spend your $1800 wisely
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What you want and what your budget allows will be near impossible to find. Good luck though.
 
Date: 12/30/2008 10:28:44 PM
Author: AprilBaby
What you want and what your budget allows will be near impossible to find. Good luck though.
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I''m sorry but I have to agree..
does your GF honestly want C.E etc just to get over a carat?
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If you follow some of the suggestions to ideal cut stones given here, a 0.8 or even 0.75 decent colour and clarity in a great cut will outshine the stones you are considering anyday. Ideal cut proportions and the sparkle and fire they bring make a stonse face up larger than the poorer cut counterparts (and you can bet most C.E stones are not best cut).

good luck!
 
The prices you see on stones claiming G/SI2 grading over a carat are all going to be of the filled variety. Although laser drilled stones do sell at a discount, it's not going to be anywhere near what you need to get into the price range you want.

There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with buying a filled stone as long as everyone is on the up and up about what it is. The problem is in knowing how to do it and what you're getting for your money. $1800 is quite a bit of coin after all.

Nearly all CE stones seem to be described as SI1-SI2 in clarity but this is NOT measuring using the GIA clarity grading scale. That scale doesn’t apply because it doesn’t include the relevant inclusions (among other reasons). A feather doesn’t go away when it’s filled, it just becomes more difficult to spot. Some stones fill remarkably well and the visual transformation is nearly miraculous while others are barely changed at all. As a consumer, this means that what’s called for is a way of describing the amount of fill and the effectiveness of the filling. This simply is not present in the GIA system and so each grader uses their own system and very few bother to explain it.

What is a CE-SI2? They are not all the same and the range of stones that will be described with that moniker is far greater than the range for GIA-SI2. Some are lovely and some look like rock salt. Some graders would call a particular stone CE-SI1 and others would call it I2. The result is that you are relying 100% on the advice of the dealer (or their chosen grader, which is the same thing) to tell you what you're getting. That’s ok, but this makes the FIRST credibility check on the dealer/grader, not the diamond and the question you should be asking is which company you should be buying from, not which stone you should choose. Get that one right and the second question becomes much much easier.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
my 2c
CE and filled diamonds are legitimate market to buy in if the person buying is making an informed decision.
Linking stones 2X out of his price range isn't going to help if he cant afford them.

The trick as Neil states is finding a dealer who is honest and has the stone in hand to get good pictures and discuss the stone with you and back it with a return policy.
Some random seller on ebay might or might not be that person.
The only real clarity rating that can be applied to them is CE.
From there the questions become is it eyeclean yes/no? Is there enough diamond in there to make it durable? yes/no?


Everyone that works on the ring will need to know it is a filled diamond as they have to be handled differently than unfilled diamonds.
 
keep in mind that I have never done business with this company but since they do their own CE they may be a good place to start:
http://www.yehuda.com/
 
Date: 12/31/2008 9:54:46 AM
Author: strmrdr
my 2c
CE and filled diamonds are legitimate market to buy in if the person buying is making an informed decision.
Linking stones 2X out of his price range isn''t going to help if he cant afford them.

The trick as Neil states is finding a dealer who is honest and has the stone in hand to get good pictures and discuss the stone with you and back it with a return policy.
Some random seller on ebay might or might not be that person.
The only real clarity rating that can be applied to them is CE.
From there the questions become is it eyeclean yes/no? Is there enough diamond in there to make it durable? yes/no?


Everyone that works on the ring will need to know it is a filled diamond as they have to be handled differently than unfilled diamonds.
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Ditto this.
 
Color grading is also problematic for reasons that are often brought up here regarding reliance on seller supplied grading done by unusual and unrecognized labs. The ‘major’ labs, including GIA, AGSL, EGL-USA, IGI and many others won’t grade them at all so you are left to the devices of others who may not be grading with your best interests at heart.

Bear in mind that cutting is as important with CE stones as it is with untreated diamonds. They are NOT all the same.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Date: 12/31/2008 9:54:46 AM
Author: strmrdr
my 2c
CE and filled diamonds are legitimate market to buy in if the person buying is making an informed decision.
Linking stones 2X out of his price range isn''t going to help if he cant afford them.

The trick as Neil states is finding a dealer who is honest and has the stone in hand to get good pictures and discuss the stone with you and back it with a return policy.
Some random seller on ebay might or might not be that person.
The only real clarity rating that can be applied to them is CE.
From there the questions become is it eyeclean yes/no? Is there enough diamond in there to make it durable? yes/no?


Everyone that works on the ring will need to know it is a filled diamond as they have to be handled differently than unfilled diamonds.
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Thank you. This gives me a better idea as to what questions i should be asking.

(1) I have a good friend who is a jewler and he worked for decades with some very talented jewlers in town (doing sizing, grading, etc for the corporate masters). My "plan" is to find a CE diamond and take it straight to the jewler I have who is experiencd in everything, including CE rocks. The company or seller must have a return policy (100%!). I will basically be asking those questions, plus if it is eye-clean and a good value for my money!

(2) I''m only interested in laser CE and not fill! Not looking for a fragile "strongest gem in the world" sort of thing. I''m well aware that a crappy cut makes the rock look smaller and less shiny. There''s just no way to go and poke around at them from where I am; luckily, diamonds are not too expensive to ship, and with a good seller I think I"m going to just give it a shot "risk free."

(3) that being said, I am going to be shopping for the seller at present. Will keep everone posted! Perhaps I''ll find what I''m looking for. There''s simply no way to get the large diamond (or large looking, for that matter) with my budget.

Thanks again!
 
Date: 12/31/2008 4:30:43 PM
Author: Lorelei
I just remembered this page, it might be useful reading for you.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/ClarityEnhancedDiamonds/
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I think that this was one of the first articles I found online! Hehe...

Anyways I am looking at more like 1.0 ct with a good cut. Either way i''m going to make sure I can inspect the thing!

Here''s one that may have been cut off of a white lady''s hand while driving in her mercedes:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-03ct-FIRE-WHITE-G-H-NATURAL-VS1-DIAMOND-ROUND-CUT_W0QQitemZ180316541479QQihZ008QQcategoryZ10216QQcmdZViewItem#ReturnPolicy

If i can inspect this, is there any problem with this "eye clean" jewel? It has a 64.7% base/height-- That puts the cut into the "good" category i believe, assuming the rest of the cuts are fair.
 
Here''s one that may have been cut off of a white lady''s hand while driving in her mercedes:
Click to expand...


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At any rate, why would you consider buying from an e-bay seller with only a 95% feedback rating?
 
Any idea what shipping to Brazil and insurance will cost in case you decide not to keep this one?
 
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