Need advice: my first wedding controversy. :(

[peonygirl]

My mom and I started talking about wedding venues today and she said that my wedding is going to have to be vegetarian because none of the places where I want to have the reception have kosher kitchens. Personally, I don't feel like *I* need to eat steak at my reception, but I really don't think a lot of my guests are going to be happy picking between fish and pasta. (As a side note do you think guests would be totally cool with having an option of salmon, halibut, or some type of vegarian pasta? If so I guess there's no problem, but I just feel like people expect some type of meat at a reception.) Most of the places I'm looking at are flat rate and vegatarian lasagna is the same price as filet mignon. I tried to compromise by telling her we wouldn't have any pork or shellfish at the wedding, but she still said it would upset her a lot if we had meat there.

She's only contributing about 1/5 of the cost of the wedding, but she is helping me plan a lot of things, and she is my mother after all. Ugh, I'm so confused. We don't even keep kosher at home so I don't know why my wedding has to be this way.

 

[moon river]

Sounds to me like she could be ''worrying what other people will think'' of her if her daughter doesn''t go kosher. I could be wrong but why else would she want to do what she doesn''t even do at home. I have a mother like that, trust me.
I would tell her look, if this is what you want then you''re going to have to pay for it because this is what we had set aside for the site and it isn''t feesable.Or, have her at least pay the differance. If she wants it bad enough she can pay for it. It''s YOUR wedding. Do whatever you wish.

 

[peonygirl]

moon river, there wouldn''t be a price difference between going vegetarian and going with meat so neither would be out of our budget. I''m actually irked about this though because it seems like meat is a lot more expensive than fish and pasta and we wouldn''t be getting our money''s worth.

Although we are not kosher at home, my mom says this is only because my dad (and now that they''ve split up, her boyfriend) doesn''t want to be kosher. And she feels like a wedding is much more spirtual than an everyday event and thus should be held to higher standards. Although there are very observant Jews coming to our wedding, they are not so strict that they wouldn''t eat a vegetarian meal even if there was meat being served at the wedding, so there is nothing to be worried about there.

 

[marvel]

Date: 2/10/2006 9:04:49 PM
Author:peonygirl

My mom and I started talking about wedding venues today and she said that my wedding is going to have to be vegetarian because none of the places where I want to have the reception have kosher kitchens. Personally, I don''t feel like *I* need to eat steak at my reception, but I really don''t think a lot of my guests are going to be happy picking between fish and pasta. (As a side note do you think guests would be totally cool with having an option of salmon, halibut, or some type of vegarian pasta? If so I guess there''s no problem, but I just feel like people expect some type of meat at a reception.) Most of the places I''m looking at are flat rate and vegatarian lasagna is the same price as filet mignon. I tried to compromise by telling her we wouldn''t have any pork or shellfish at the wedding, but she still said it would upset her a lot if we had meat there.

She''s only contributing about 1/5 of the cost of the wedding, but she is helping me plan a lot of things, and she is my mother after all. Ugh, I''m so confused. We don''t even keep kosher at home so I don''t know why my wedding has to be this way.

Hi PG, I wouldn''t worry about what people are expecting. I think that they will be happy to be at your wedding celebrating. I''m sure they will be appreciative that you are severing them ANYTHING!

If i were at your wedding, I wouldn''t think twice about what I was being served, I''d just be happy to be part of the celebration. You need to pick your battles with mom, maybe this one''s not worth the aggravation. But, don''t worry about your guests, they''re not expecting anything but you to HAPPY on YOUR day!!

 

[moon river]

As a vegetarian myself I understand what you mean about the cost. I don''t know why veg dishes cost the same as meat. I hope you two come to an agreement about this. Wedding planning is stressful enough.

 

[Mara]

just as she is worrying about what others will think re: kosher, you are worrying what others will think if you don''t have meat...

personally i don''t think anyone would think it was weird if you didn''t have meat at your reception and it definitely wouldn''t be a ''negative'' thing in my opinion.

it''s your wedding reception, do what works out best and your guests will just have to deal! they want to be there to see you get married and celebrate, not eat steak.

 

[peonygirl]

marvel, I don''t think people would dislike my wedding or anything if I didn''t have meat, but it is just seems so much more formal and upscale to have it, ya know? Another issue is that my mom wants a buffet and I want a sit-down. I think a buffet would work better with vegetarian, but that would only bring down the formal factor even more.

I also have visions of a rehersal dinner I attended recenly that ONLY had fish and no other choice. About 1/4 of people basically just ended up eating green beans, salad, and rice for dinner that night.

 

[Blue824]

that seems odd that the vegie dishes would be the same price as the meat ones...maybe you can negotiate with your caterer or reception site? It just doesnt really make sense. But also, if I was at a wedding, I wouldn''t care what I was eating, as long as it was good

The people are going to the wedding to celebrate, not to get a free steak

 

[marvel]

Date: 2/10/2006 9:31:44 PM
Author: peonygirl
marvel, I don't think people would dislike my wedding or anything if I didn't have meat, but it is just seems so much more formal and upscale to have it, ya know? Another issue is that my mom wants a buffet and I want a sit-down. I think a buffet would work better with vegetarian, but that would only bring down the formal factor even more.

I also have visions of a rehersal dinner I attended recenly that ONLY had fish and no other choice. About 1/4 of people basically just ended up eating green beans, salad, and rice for dinner that night.

I was just going to suggest that maybe you two could compromise here, you get the sit-down, she gets the kosher food. Then I started thinking 'it's *MY* wedding, I'll do what I wand'...sheesh, I'm starting to get stressed...I feel for you.

 

[E B]

Date: 2/10/2006 9:31:44 PM
Author: peonygirl
Another issue is that my mom wants a buffet and I want a sit-down. I think a buffet would work better with vegetarian, but that would only bring down the formal factor even more.

Not true. I've been to a couple weddings now, both were buffet and both were gorgeous and very formal. I think you're imagining all the guests in line at once, holding plates, tired from waiting. This isn't how it is. A salad, bread and wine are bought to each guest and while people eat and talk, each table, one by one, goes to get their food. No waiting, no lines. It's actually quite nice and I prefer it a million times more than a sit down.

What if you went to a restaurant, sat down, and without ordering, were brought a plate of food. Whatever they wanted you to eat. Would you really prefer that to ordering what you'd like?

 

[peonygirl]

EBree, I really like the idea of a plated salad and the rest being a buffet, but I still need to ask the vendors if they''d be willing to do that, especially the ones with an in-house caterer.

 

[E B]

Date: 2/10/2006 10:08:02 PM
Author: peonygirl
EBree, I really like the idea of a plated salad and the rest being a buffet, but I still need to ask the vendors if they''d be willing to do that, especially the ones with an in-house caterer.

It''s really nice this way, I promise. Most people are too busy eating their salads/bread to notice that it isn''t their turn yet. We were one of the last tables (I think) at this last wedding and didn''t even know it! Well, until we saw everyone else eating!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Since none of the places have kosher kitchens is kind of doesn''t matter. I mean any food won''t be considered kosher anyways so I would take that argument. Is your FI jewish? I think this is a hard situation because you obviously want the opposite of your mother. I would just talk to her and tell her what is important to you. I know how hard it is because you don''t want to disappoint your mother or your guest. Just talk to her

 

[peonygirl]

Tacori, my fiance is Jewish but he''s reform so this kosher stuff doesn''t matter to his family. I agree with you about the food not being kosher regardless of whether we mix meat and milk because of the kitchen situation, but to my mom kosher-style is what matters.

I brought up this issue with her tonight, and she basically said that she would go with whatever I chose but if I served meat she would be very disappointed in me and her enjoyment of the wedding would be colored by it. Talk about a guilt trip! She is not a very judgemental person, but she has really been making up for that in the past couple days. She already told me that she doesn''t want my DF''s childhood rabbi to marry us because she is reform and reform rabbis marry interfaith couples. . . meaning that our marriage won''t be as "official" as it would be if we got married by someone who only married Jewish couples. So now we are being pressured into going w/ her conservative rabbi who neither of us knows. Ugh, I just wish I was older and had the money and time to plan this without her input!

 

[monarch64]

Peony, talk it out with your mom. And then decide what is most important to YOU. You are the bride, and you are in control of this wedding, no matter what etiquette or anyone else says, IMO. Is it more important to you to please her, or your guests, or you and your betrothed? You will have to do some soul-searching on your own on this one, no one can decide it for you.

I agree with the above posts that buffet style doesn''t have to be a rush-to-the-buffet type situation. Indeed, it can be more relaxing than seeing a table next to you have all their food brought out at the same time while you sit and wait for yours to arrive for another 10 minutes. I think a lot of the timing depends also on how many guests you have versus how many servers you have. That may be a question to ask your caterer or wedding venue coordinator.

Obviously this is a tough decision for you... I hope that you are able to gain insight from these responses and talk it out with your mother to find the best possible solution.

 

[XChick03]

First of all, it is YOUR wedding, no one else''s (except your fiance of course) and it should be about what you want. I can totally understand why you don''t want to disappoint your mother, because I''m very close to mine, but you shouldn''t be stressed about whether or not people will like the food on your wedding day.

Though, I highly doubt people will care about what''s being served at the reception. Personally, I''m not a big fan of fish, but it really wouldn''t bother me if that was what the bride and her family wanted.

In the end, choose what you want because its your special and something as trivial as whether or not its fish or filet shouldn''t ruin it for you.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

This is when PMs are helpful, oh well....
jewish mom''s are great with guilt trips aren''t they? Well jewish grandmothers are better but....that''s a different story

Your mom should be happy that your FI is jewish somehow I ended up with an ideal situation where neither set of parents seem to care AT ALL that we are different religions. My parents do want FI to break the glass (and I do too) but he is really against it since we both said we want a non-religious ceremony. I can totally understand the stress of waiting to make everyone happy. His parents are good friends with a minister and we first thought of having her and a rabbi but their friend said there was NO WAY she could leave out jesus (which my FI was even uncomfortable with) so we are getting married by a family friend who is a lawyer. I think it is all about compromise but remember this is your wedding and I know your mom is guilting you NOW but come on! She will be so happy I doubt she would ruin the wedding.

 

[MelissaSue]

I think as long as you have the vegtarian pasta and fish choice its OK.. I will not go NEAR fish.. cant stand the smell.. but I wouldn''t be unhappy eating a veg. pasta.. I dont'' think people would mind at all
BUT! I can tell by the way that you are talking about it and responding to others.. that its REALLY important to you to have a meat choice... so.. tell your mother that you''re having a meat choice and thats all there is to it.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/10/2006 9:21:00 PM
Author: peonygirl
moon river, there wouldn''t be a price difference between going vegetarian and going with meat so neither would be out of our budget. I''m actually irked about this though because it seems like meat is a lot more expensive than fish and pasta and we wouldn''t be getting our money''s worth.

Although we are not kosher at home, my mom says this is only because my dad (and now that they''ve split up, her boyfriend) doesn''t want to be kosher. And she feels like a wedding is much more spirtual than an everyday event and thus should be held to higher standards. Although there are very observant Jews coming to our wedding, they are not so strict that they wouldn''t eat a vegetarian meal even if there was meat being served at the wedding, so there is nothing to be worried about there.

Well, I guess I''d say that when she gets married again, she can run with how she feels.

But if YOU don''t feel it''s necessary and it''s your wedding......then I think you should do what YOU want.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/10/2006 11:23:04 PM
Author: peonygirl
Tacori, my fiance is Jewish but he's reform so this kosher stuff doesn't matter to his family. I agree with you about the food not being kosher regardless of whether we mix meat and milk because of the kitchen situation, but to my mom kosher-style is what matters.

I brought up this issue with her tonight, and she basically said that she would go with whatever I chose but if I served meat she would be very disappointed in me and her enjoyment of the wedding would be colored by it. Talk about a guilt trip! She is not a very judgemental person, but she has really been making up for that in the past couple days. She already told me that she doesn't want my DF's childhood rabbi to marry us because she is reform and reform rabbis marry interfaith couples. . . meaning that our marriage won't be as 'official' as it would be if we got married by someone who only married Jewish couples. So now we are being pressured into going w/ her conservative rabbi who neither of us knows. Ugh, I just wish I was older and had the money and time to plan this without her input!

Oh, well.....life is full of disappointments. In fact, one of them is when you mother tries to guilt you into doing things her way.

Of course, you need to do what you can live with. I personally couldn't live with this, and I wouldn't let my mom get away with it. Then again, I've been that way since I was SIX, so she's quite used to it now and she's very respectful of my decisions, so it's not an issue anymore.

 

[ChooChoo]

Stand up to your mom. Tell her that your guests will be upset by choosing between vegetarian and fish (I know the vast majority of MY guests would be very disappointed with these options), and that you don''t feel that it''s fair to impose one person''s views on everyone. If you tell her now what your decision is, she will get over it by the time of the wedding.

Is there any way you can enlist the help of another family member (like your dad or a sibling) to help you reason with her?

 

[AmberGretchen]

PG - have you specifically inquired with sites you are considering re: kosher food? I know that a number of the places I was considering would let you bring in a kosher caterer who was not their "house" caterer if you required kosher food. I don''t know where you are located, but in any major metropolitan area with a reasonably-sized Jewish population I''d imagine this is a possibility. I only suggest it because that way you might be able to compromise and have you and your mom both be happy.

I can''t comment on how important the food or the rabbi who marries you are to you and your FI, but I can suggest that a key to peaceful wedding planning with a number of different family members who have strong opinions is to pick your battles. Decide what is really important to you, stick to your guns on those issues, and then let people have their way on others. For instance, think of what you could "give" your mom so that she feels she is getting something her way, and she will probably be more willing to compromise on the food. This doesn''t always work but its worth a shot.

Anyway, I hope that''s somewhat helpful and I wish you the best of luck with the first of what I"m sure will be many decisions during your wedding planning.

 

[peonygirl]

AmberGretchen, that''s a great idea, but a Kosher caterer won''t come into a non-Kosher kitchen.

 

[Mara]

you have to pick your battles with parents many times. sure it's YOUR wedding but that argument doesn't fly with alot of pushy parents (mine included!!)...i got alot of guilt trips as well on things and in the end i either had to fight for what i really wanted or give in on a few things (aka wearing a veil so i could be a 'real bride'). we had some hairy moments here and there when she was smoking the crack pipe and thought it was HER wedding, but we got through it. parents can be bridezillas too.

SO here's the deal. bottom line. do you really want to get into this with your mom over a meat choice? i mean is it really that important?

IF IT IS then you have to stand up to her and be prepared for the consequences which could be numerous, from her being 'disappointed in you' (i don't know about you but it always bugs me for days when my mom says that!!!) to maybe even threatening to not come or something...seriously parents get dramatic about this stuff!

IF YOU DON'T really feel like dealing with it, then go with no meat choice and do a fish and pasta and it will BE FINE for your guests....honestly it's not a huge deal BUT if you do want the meat choice and want to fight for it then do so....but it may be more about the 'taking a stand' thing than it is about the real meat choice?

 

[selflove]

If my choices at a wedding were fish or pasta, I would be DELIGHTED (as a former vegetarian, currently a fishetarian).
I agree with Mara''s point, is it really that important to get into it with your mother over having a meat choice?

This day is about your family and friends witnessing your marriage, not about the food served at the wedding. In my fiance''s country (Slovenia), the emphasis of the wedding is on the couple getting married and the celebration (ie. the music and the dancing). The food/meal is all secondary. I''m starting to think that we have it the wrong way in this country and that we have this cultural mentality, backed by a multi-billion dollar wedding industry, that undermines everything about the "marriage celebration" and changes the focus to "how impressed will our guests be." Okay, putting my soapbox away...had a stressful day trying to plan my own "impressive event"...

 

[E B]

Date: 2/11/2006 6:41:25 PM
Author: Mara
you have to pick your battles with parents many times. sure it's YOUR wedding but that argument doesn't fly with alot of pushy parents (mine included!!)...i got alot of guilt trips as well on things and in the end i either had to fight for what i really wanted or give in on a few things (aka wearing a veil so i could be a 'real bride').

SO here's the deal. bottom line. do you really want to get into this with your mom over a meat choice? i mean is it really that important?

I'm in complete agreement, Mara. I've always thought the whole "It's MY wedding" approach is a dangerous one. It's seems to be the bridezilla motto (not at all saying you're a bridezilla, but you know what I mean!

). If you have other people contributing, then technically, it's their affair as well. A pasta dish would be a delicious choice, and not having meat won't ruin any sort of formality, in my honest opinion. Her wanting a buffet vs. a sit down might be worth arguing over (since that's just a matter of tase), but religion is a whole 'nother can of worms.

I hope you and your mom are able to work everything out. You'll be a beautiful bride and you'll have a beautiful wedding, meat or not!

 

[Tybee]

I just wanted to jump in and comment. I''m not Jewish, but, I''m Italian/Catholic, guilt from our mothers is just par for the course, right? Sadly, my mother passed away when I was in college, and I actually miss her quirky guilt-trip ways.

Here''s something to consider, what''s the big deal? Like others have mentioned, you have to pick your battles. How important to you is it that you have meat at your wedding? Have you ever been to a wedding where people were upset that there wasn''t enough meat served? The only guests that I have seen who have had trouble at receptions are vegetarians, who usually have very little to choose from when meat is the main option. Will you have kosher guests at your reception?

Your mother may be bullying you a little bit, but heck, our weddings are really not just for us, no matter what anyone says, they are for our families and friends too. Years after your wedding has passed, no one is going to remember your lack of meat at the reception, but if you and your mother have a royal battle about it, YOU will remember that forever.

As quirky or annoying as they may be, our families are part of us. Consider this battle with your mother, how worth it is it to you to get your way?

 

[Rebemdee]

We have ONE person who keeps kosher coming to our wedding. I talked to his wife, and she said not to worry, he will find something to eat and it''s not a big deal. We were going to have non-meat options, but she said fish would be fine, so we''re going to have salmon/filet mignon duet plates, and he just gets two servings of salmon! I was making a lot of assumptions about what needed to be done, and when talking to the source, his wife, all was fine. Maybe it would be helpful to find out from the rabbi or the women''s group at the synogauge what people usually do. If you get some alternatives and "this is how we manage it," answers, you may find it''s not so burdensome to meet your mom''s requests. Also, I think having fish or vegetarian options at your wedding would be lovely. Not everybody eats beef anyway, which is why we went for the duet plates...people can trade for what they want! I''ve been to weddings without a meat entree and didn''t notice it at all. Besides, people are there to see you, they don''t really care what is on the plate. I can''t remember what I ate at weddings, but I sure remember who I went to see.

 

[Caribou]

Peony, do what you want. People are going to find something to complain regardless...this is your & your FI''s day no one elses.

 

[moon river]

Date: 2/12/2006 2:56:41 PM
Author: Caribou

Peony, do what you want. People are going to find something to complain regardless...this is your & your FI''s day no one elses.

Very Very True.