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Need advice on a cushion cut diamond

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philosophy949

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
21
Hey everyone,

I'm getting ready to take the plunge and have been looking at diamonds for awhile now. I have a good idea on the 4C but am kind of confused right now.

I want to do a 2ct Cushion Cut with a Harry Winston style Micropave halo.

My budget is around 12-14k.

I've found a couple I colors and a J that are 2ct. I saw the J in person and it seems very white and very beautiful. We even did a shake up three diamonds test and me and my friends all chose the J while the jeweler chose the I.

The J has a strong fluorescence, which I've read constantly about and may be helping the color. The price is very good, the stone is GIA, J VS2, Excellent polish and VG symmetry and under 10k. I am doing a white gold setting with a halo and the jeweler has told me that because of the setting and the stone fluorescence that you will not see any yellow.

Any opinions on that statement? Or any recommendations? I'm not opposed to going to a slightly smaller stone in order to get the right diamond.

Any help on some stone recommendations or input on the J that I saw would be greatly appreciated. I don't want a yellowish stone, and didn't even consider J colors, but when I saw this stone, it did look whiter than the I and was in office light. I took it to the window and couldn't see any yellow either but I don't think I am very color sensitive.

Other info that might help, my gf finger is small 4. And I want it to be bright and pretty.

Thanks in advance.
 
There are a ton of threads on this topic. If you do a search in the "search" box on the top right corner for "Harry Winston" or "Harry Winston Replica" you will find more info than you will need.

Here's one to get you started:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/harry-winston-micropave-replica-help.176305/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/harry-winston-micropave-replica-help.176305/[/URL]

You also might find this tutorial on cushions helpful:

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/cushion-cut-diamond
 
If you've seen it in person, the stone is beautiful, GIA graded and bright (and you've spent time with it in all kinds of different lighting and seen it out in natural light, and out from under the jewelers lights), AND the seller offers you a return policy (full, no questions asked) the I don't see why you shouldn't get the diamond.

Now, as to the setting. Honestly, that's more complicated. Good HW style settings are few and far between. Bad ones are common. And if you are buying for an engagement ring, something that is to be worn everyday on the hand, and potentially sized up for after pregnancy and what what not... you need great quality. First, that means platinum. For pave (not for everything, but for pave) platinum is the best it is stronger (not harder, but stronger) than whitegold and will wear better and it is a much better metal for holding those stones. I highly recommend you make sure you get a LIFETIME warranty on whatever setting you get from this jeweler of yours, that includes sizing, and any stones lost through regular wear and tear, and one that is NOT dependant on check ins every 6 months (which is a silly requirement meant to have you voiding your warranty).



Also are you in Fortworth, TX by any chance?
 
No, I am located in Southern California.

Thanks everyone for the info so far. I have seen those threads and searched but wanted to get into specifics with some knowledgable people.

Any other stones that people can recommend?

I haven't thought much of the setting. I was told most settings are CAD drawn so I figured they are all pretty similar. But seems as though further investigation has proven that wrong.

I've been to many people and have been quoted "at their cost" for the setting anywhere between 1k-2k, but it seems some of the more reputable ones charge as much as 5k. Any thoughts on that would again be appreciated. I read the threads that were recommended and seem that 5k for a setting is pretty insanely priced. But I guess the old adage, "you get what you pay for" may come into play.
 
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/custom-jewelry-work-cad-and-cast-psa.175834/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/custom-jewelry-work-cad-and-cast-psa.175834/[/URL] About Custom Work. This should help. Please study the links.



Now, on to the stone. If you can get the GIA report number I can at least tell you a little about the stone-- I can tell you some basics about the facet structure and if it is facing up well for its carat weight at a minimum. IF you can get me the GIA report number and several MACRO shots of the stone I can tell you even more. (here is a link to taking good photos of diamonds: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-to-take-good-photos-of-your-diamonds.102989/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-to-take-good-photos-of-your-diamonds.102989/[/URL])

But even if you can't get the above:

I have some GREAT news for you. For about 80 bucks and a couple hours of time, you can take that stone of yours to a great independent appraiser in Southern California (Patrick Davis https://www.pricescope.com/appraisers/patrick_n_davis ) and he can do a full evaluation for you, and tell you all the things you want to/need to know about the stone.

So, you ask... what are all the things I want and need to know about the stone?
What type of faceting structure does it have: Are there 4, 6, or 8 mains in the pavillion?
Does it have a bowtie?
Is the Florescence having any negative effect on the stone?
Does it face up correctly for a 2 carat stone, or is it over deep and facing up smaller?
How is its performance? Patrick can also provide you with an ASET image, but even better he can show you the diamond under the ASET yourself.
He can check out the inclusions.
He can tell you if it is a "high" J (each color is a range), or a low one.
He can also tell you the crown height (certificate won't do that) which is what determines fire.
And he can tell you if the price you are getting is fair.


So, if it were me. I'd get that appraisal. Or get us some really good pics (think mug shot), the GIA number of the stone's report and we can tell you more.

And since you asked, I'll look for other stones for you, as options.
 
So, the picks are a bit slim. BUT I found one really lovely potential stone for for you.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Good-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1540957.asp Put that puppy on hold (no cost, no obligation) as we have lurkers. And then ask JA for an ASET image of the stone (evaluates light performance) and they will get one for you in three days an then post it. It is an antique style cushion, not a modern one, which is very much in demand right now, it's got nice dimensions (also referred to as spread) 8x7mm. And it's got a very finger flattering elongated outline.

The great thing about JA is that they have a FABULOUS return policy (60 days no questions asked, and pay for shipping to you both ways) so you can take this one in and compare it to your other one. Or take it to Patrick and have him compare both for you. IF you decide to give it a try after the ASET comes back, if it comes back to be a good one. (James Allen will try to get you to pick to more to compare it to, but it's a waste of time, there aren't any others in that size/budget range worth checking out).

Here is how you read an ASET: http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_ASET_scope.asp Red is best. A blue for contrast and patterning is okay on some cushions. And green is good provided there is more red than green.
 
Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to get pictures of the diamond, I can try but in the meantime

GIA Cert #2136349271
2.01 ct

I'm going to indulge myself in this awesome deluge of information and try to get an ASET for the diamond but not sure if they do that.
 
any thoughts based on the cert?
 
7.46 x 6.72 x 4.72 mm deep with a thick girdle and is smaller face up (spread) than you would want a 2 carat to be. Faces up like a 1.8 ct. Modified four main pavilion plot that results in a 'crushed ice' faceting pattern. Probably looks exactly like this one, only slightly fatter. http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1516746.asp (and that one is 1.8 carats). Another with the same facet pattern and measurements: (1.8 carats) http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1527692.asp

If she doesn't like radiants, she might not like this facet structure as it is very similar, and not at all like most modern and antique cushions on the market at Tiffany and Harry Winston (where she may have seen cushions). And I just don't see the point in paying for a 2 carat stone when it doesn't face up like one.

I would pursue the James Allen one I linked you to above. http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Good-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1540957.asp It's significantly bigger. It's also a J. And it's got nicer faceting. And it's under 10k as well.

Here's a second to try as well: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1531108.asp Also faces up larger than the one you have above. May be showing a bit of a bowtie, but the picture shows some possibility. And you get three at JA so you might as well through in a second stone for comparison.

PUT BOTH THOSE ON HOLD. There is no obligation for a hold. It takes three days to get you an ASET image.
 
Gypsy,

Thanks for all the help so far. I have put those two on hold and have requested the ASET images. I will post as soon as I get them back. Any other suggestions from other carriers would be appreciated as well.

Thanks again!
 
Also should I stay away from J color? What are peoples thoughts on color on a cushion? Should I goto a smaller diamond with better color?
 
I'm liking this 2c J that Gypsy posted as well. It has chunky facets and JA will do an ASET for you so you can check for leakage. It faces up really large too.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Good-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1540957.asp

Here's my favorite J color chunky cushion in a halo thread. It is beautiful!

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/leon-mege-antique-cushion.140739/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/leon-mege-antique-cushion.140739/[/URL]

Here's her story on pg 3...note how white it faces up in her comments:

Post by Thouarella » 14 Apr 2010 12:54
Thanks for all the lovely comments everyone!

It''s our 5th wedding anniversary, hence the 5 carat stone Image

Laila - thanks for adding it to the cushion thread.

jgny:
The dimensions are 9.95 x 9.61 x 6.71mm And I believe the OMC style stones face up smaller as well given their high crowns (someone correct me if I''m wrong on this). But I looked at a bunch and I vastly preferred the OMCs to the modern brilliants, plus I think this way the 5 carat isn''t too enormous (vs say a 5 carat RB).

We bought this stone from Leon just before he launched his diamond concierge service, so I don''t know if they will provide additional details now, but basically he sent me photos of the stone from all angles, set and unset and on a black and white background. No ASETs. It was rather a leap of faith to buy it without looking at it in person and without ASETs etc but at the end of the day we decided to trust his eye and we had just fallen in love with the faceting of the stone.

Before we decided on this one, we''d taken a look at stones at our local B&Ms, one who specialises in OMCs and another who flew in 5 stones from their sightholders in Israel. I''d also contacted all of the cushion specialists mentioned on this forum and gotten a stone flown out to me, though ultimately we decided not to go with that one. It is REALLY difficult to find a stone with the requirements we had (>5 carats, OMC or 8 pavillion mains, large culet, near 1:1 aspect ratio, eyeclean) and there were very few responses to our request both online and at the B&Ms. It was basically between this stone and the one that was flown out to us. Jon at GoodOldGood had offered to get an AVC cut but the prices of rough had gone up so much at the end of last year/beginning of this one, plus we didn''t want to have to wait!

So at the end of the day and after months of searching we decided to go ahead with Leon''s stone and I just love it. The J doesn''t bother me at all and mostly it looks icy white and I only notice a tiny bit of warmth very occasionally from certain angles (my e-ring is an E and there is a very slight difference but really not very much).

Leon did mention that now he''s set up this diamond concierge service that he''d rather find a good stone for his clients. He''ll still set stones from other dealers but I get the feeling that he preferred for us to buy a stone from him. Good thing we liked his stone best anyway.

gemgirl - I''m getting him a phenomenal watch. It isn''t our anniversary for a little while yet so he still has time to decide on his "dream" watch! I have a shortlist!
 
I have no issue with J color. It's not as "safe" as higher color, but honestly MANY MANY people on here chose J color when trying to balance color and size because of the fact that while it is slightly tinted, once set properly it really doesn't show color.

And when you set it in a halo, those tiny diamonds are going to be really white, but the contrast you see is largely because of the differences in faceting between having 57 facets (full cut round) in 1.5 mm of space versus 8x7mm of space.

I have an F with a halo (not because I favor high color but because my stone is pre-Pricescope and we went with the advice we were given at the time) and my melee (small stones in halo) out-white my center all the time. It's just that they look white all the time and my center stone (which is a square emerald cut) does not-- it reflects colors from the world around it. If I am wearing a yellow or orange shirt, or in a restaurant with beige walls, or similar my center stone reflects the beige/yellow around it so the stone tints a bit, but the halo melee do not they stay white, their facets reflect light differently.

I will look to see if I can find you another nice stone that's smaller to add to your JA hold.
 
hey gypsy, did you have a recommendation for a place in Fort Worth?
 
Hmm. So here's what I found. There's no clear winner. Each one has something about it that I'm not certain about.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1537815.asp Same facet plot as the one you've seen in person. It's the same price and, though the carat weight is lower, it is the same SIZE (dimensions not carat weight) in terms of surface area as that one. It is an H so the color is higher. It may have a bow tie, it may not.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Very-Good-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1542104.asp It's got great spread for a square cushion. But this facet plot hasn't been impressing me with it's ASETs. From the picture it seems like it might be a good performer, but that's happened before and the ASETs have been underwelming.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI2-Good-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1540696.asp This one is overbudget for the stone. It's got a facet plan that usually means great performance, but the picture is underwelming to be honest and that means that, plot aside, this could be a dud. The spread is great. I don't know if I'd consider this a contender at all as a result. I'd probably go with one of the other two, as they are more budget friendly, and you have a halo to buy.
 
Just wanted to thank the community and everyone who posted, esp Gypsy on all the help. I've been a member or many forums and have yet had such a pleasant experience ever.... Let me know if theres a place to become a "premium" member or make a donation to the site because this is hands down one of the best I've ever been regardless of genre.
 
radiantbuyer12|1354673569|3322771 said:
hey gypsy, did you have a recommendation for a place in Fort Worth?
Click to expand...


No. I have a cousin in Fort Worth, who I adore but is a very stubborn guy, looking for an engagement ring. And I've referred him onto here hoping I see him and can help him, but he's determined to do this alone (why I do not know). Every time I see a 12-14k budget for a ring with a cushion and a HW halo (that's what he wants) I hope it's him. That's all. I just want him to get the best for his budget, and I know I can help him with that. If he lets me. My best advice for anyone looking for a ring is TX who wants to buy in person is to take a road trip to Houston, call Brian Gavin, and make an appointment with him-- no matter what shape you are looking for, he just has one of the best eyes for diamonds that I know of.
 
philosophy949|1354673867|3322777 said:
Just wanted to thank the community and everyone who posted, esp Gypsy on all the help. I've been a member or many forums and have yet had such a pleasant experience ever.... Let me know if theres a place to become a "premium" member or make a donation to the site because this is hands down one of the best I've ever been regardless of genre.
Click to expand...


Aww how awesome is that. We don't do donations, if you want to donate something in 'thanks' to a charity of your choice in PS's name, I'm sure that would be appreciated, especially given the season. We just like to help people, so the best thing you can do is refer others here so we can help them too. ::)
 
Should I be worried that its a AGS J and not a GIA J on the one I put on hold? I've read a lot that AGS is lenient on color compared to GIA?
 
philosophy949|1354674285|3322787 said:
Should I be worried that its a AGS J and not a GIA J on the one I put on hold? I've read a lot that AGS is lenient on color compared to GIA?
Click to expand...

There have been instances where AGS is more lenient on color. Fortunately with James Allen you can ask that when the gemologist looks it over they tell you where it is on the J spectrum (each color is a spectrum). It could be a "high" J, a "true" J, or a "low" J. And James Allen has, in the past been very good about reporting on this when asked. Just get in touch with them and have them add it to your request. 8)
 
Excuse me for butting in but just have a related question.

I noticed that the J colored diamond is an AGS "good cut" stone. I know that cut ratings do not matter if it is GIA inspected but since it is AGS, I thought "good" wouldn't be good enough or ideal.

I'm asking because I also have a diamond in mind that is AGS good cut and not sure whether to move forward with it or not.
 
gracieloufreebush|1354675914|3322826 said:
Excuse me for butting in but just have a related question.

I noticed that the J colored diamond is an AGS "good cut" stone. I know that cut ratings do not matter if it is GIA inspected but since it is AGS, I thought "good" wouldn't be good enough or ideal.

I'm asking because I also have a diamond in mind that is AGS good cut and not sure whether to move forward with it or not.
Click to expand...

These are cushions. Not rounds. Different animals, like cats and dogs. There are no cut standards for cushion as there are with rounds**. The stone you are referring to is an AGS graded stone. But AGS does not assign cut grades for cushions and neither does any other lab. The "good" rating you see is a random assignment by the vendor based only on two stats, depth and table, which really tells you nothing about the stone's performance at all. In fact, I've heard that James Allen may be getting rid of this random assignment on all fancy cuts (non-rounds) soon as they, too, realize it's meaningless.

ETA: ** Oversimplification. Some cushions are graded by AGS for cut. Just not all cushions.

If you are going for a round, there are cut standards assigned by the labs. They are NOT meaningless. But they do need interpretation. Here's a short cut:

Excellent: Some are better than others. Get an idealscope image for any that score under 3 on the HCA.https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca
Very good: Not good enough
Good: Poor
Fair: Foul
Poor: Execrable

AGS:
Light performance: 0-1. Great. Still worth getting an idealscope image (no need for the HCA though).
Anything under 0-1. Don't waste your time, as AGS trades at a premium and anything that doesn't have a 0 or 1 for light performance is over priced and you are better off with GIA stones.

In general any round diamond graded "good" for cut, or light performance is gonna be terrible though. You need to see ideals or excellents, and even then you need to do some work beyond that designation.

Please read these links to help you:


Start here and read this: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Then these
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/tolkowsky-ideal-cut-diamond
and this:
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-crown-and-pavilion
and this: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-table-size on table size.

Please feel free to start your own thread for continued assistance. There are a lot of round helpers on here and we will be happy to help you find a great stone. :wavey:
 
Hey Gypsy
Thanks for the detailed response! I am looking for a cushion, not a round.

I was under the impression that AGS is really the only lab that does assign cut grades for cushions. But if they don't, I will definitely put the diamond I was looking at on hold.

Thanks for the info
 
gracieloufreebush|1354678061|3322865 said:
Hey Gypsy
Thanks for the detailed response! I am looking for a cushion, not a round.

I was under the impression that AGS is really the only lab that does assign cut grades for cushions. But if they don't, I will definitely put the diamond I was looking at on hold.

Thanks for the info
Click to expand...

Hi Grace. Well, they kinda do and kinda don't-- I didn't get into it cause I thought you were looking for a round, but I can explain better now that I know you aren't. They do for some lines of cushions and upon request. Like the AVC is graded by them for it. But they don't for all. And that certificate is not loading so I couldn't check details. Do you want to start a thread and link me to the stone I can tell you if I think it's got promise (do this only AFTER you put it on hold though).

This is a little out of date but still helpful. [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/avc-ideal-designation-by-ags.161757/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/avc-ideal-designation-by-ags.161757/[/URL] and I honestly haven't seen anything on the AGS site that's helpful in this regard, so if you start a new thread, I can ask a vendor who is more knowledgeable about the AGS system as it applies to cushions respond to it.
 
radiantbuyer12|1354673569|3322771 said:
hey gypsy, did you have a recommendation for a place in Fort Worth?
Click to expand...

I got my engagement ring at Mariloff at the World Trade Center in Dallas. They have a ton of settings and imo the quality is good, but having not bought a diamond center stone from them I don't know how they are with that and what services they offer (my regular jeweler says they know diamonds really well, but idk what that means to him and how that would translate for the consumer). Curtis Miller in the WTC carries Crafted by Infinity diamonds (closest place to get a super-ideal round in the DFW area that I know of), and they offer ASET/Idealscope images and Sarin scans. So they'd be worth a shot. Designs by Flora in the WTC carries both Gabriel & Co and Beverly K settings. I just saw some killer radiants in DeBeers today but idk the pricing on them, lol.

I would stay away from Kubes in FW.

As Gypsy said, Whiteflash and Brian Gavin Diamonds are located in Houston, and Brian Gavin is good at picking fancies, if a radiant is what you're looking for as your username suggests.
 
Gypsy|1354678525|3322872 said:
gracieloufreebush|1354678061|3322865 said:
Hey Gypsy
Thanks for the detailed response! I am looking for a cushion, not a round.

I was under the impression that AGS is really the only lab that does assign cut grades for cushions. But if they don't, I will definitely put the diamond I was looking at on hold.

Thanks for the info
Click to expand...

Hi Grace. Well, they kinda do and kinda don't-- I didn't get into it cause I thought you were looking for a round, but I can explain better now that I know you aren't. They do for some lines of cushions and upon request. Like the AVC is graded by them for it. But they don't for all. And that certificate is not loading so I couldn't check details. Do you want to start a thread and link me to the stone I can tell you if I think it's got promise (do this only AFTER you put it on hold though).

This is a little out of date but still helpful. [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/avc-ideal-designation-by-ags.161757/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/avc-ideal-designation-by-ags.161757/[/URL] and I honestly haven't seen anything on the AGS site that's helpful in this regard, so if you start a new thread, I can ask a vendor who is more knowledgeable about the AGS system as it applies to cushions respond to it.
Click to expand...


Hmmm kinda confusing! I started another thread: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/back-for-your-thoughts-on-another-cushion.182718/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/back-for-your-thoughts-on-another-cushion.182718/..[/URL].

Thanks again!
 
Just spoke with JA for my consultation and they seem to feel the 2.03 was the best of the three. I will get ASET images today and post but all them, I was told are true J colors and face up J.

Will I be happy with them facing up J? Or should I go with a smaller stone but better color? Thoughts? Recommendations?
 
here are the ASETs that were just sent to me

First is a J 2.03 Si1

Second I VS2 1.71

Third 2.00 J VS2

Was told by the consultant that the First was the one she liked most.

1531108aset.jpg

1537402aset.jpg

1540957aset.jpg
 
Can you ask them WHY they felt they 2.03 was the best?
 
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