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Need help on selecting Princess Cut

sorry - I do see many posters already gave you plenty of princess cuts recommendations. However, I really just hate to see people do so much research to get a Not so great performer all in the name of "carat" weight is all. I do apologize for my rant, but here is just another food for thought

another recommendation, 100% trade in value, but I think you have to spend twice as much next time around. do check their trade in policy if it comes to it.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1339877.asp
 
D&T|1290396032|2775131 said:
sorry - I do see many posters already gave you plenty of princess cuts recommendations. However, I really just hate to see people do so much research to get a Not so great performer all in the name of "carat" weight is all. I do apologize for my rant, but here is just another food for thought

another recommendation, 100% trade in value, but I think you have to spend twice as much next time around. do check their trade in policy if it comes to it.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1339877.asp
Click to expand...


nice stone D&T. AC- have you talked to your wife about performance of the stone as opposed to carat size? Is she/you willing to drop down to the .7-.8 range with a vendor that has an upgrade policy like goodoldgold or whiteflash? Or is 1ct the sticking point?
 
personal tidbit- when FI asked what I wanted sparkly or big....initally I said big. My BFF went with FI to pick out my ring and I am glad that she was there to make a judgement call. He went .3 smaller in favor of an excellent cut as opposed to good. I am so happy he did. this stone is so sparkley it shoots off sparkles of light in every setting. There have been women on PS who had "poor" "fair" cut princess stones recut by someone and lost size because they were unhappy with the performance of their bigger "fair" cut stone.
 
Amys Bling said:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/K-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1276108.asp

that stone will have more tint than a j... but a tad bigger.
Click to expand...

Nice. I do just worry a tad about the Extremely thin girdle though.

I guess its a moot point if we're all recommending stones, but OP is insistent on 1ct mark :rodent: ...

anyhooot,, it was a bit fun hunting for stones while I procrastinated a bit :bigsmile: Good Luck ac75.


An incredible smaller performing stone will outshine any larger carat under performing stone anyday imo ::)
 
D&T|1290396841|2775151 said:
Amys Bling said:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/K-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1276108.asp

that stone will have more tint than a j... but a tad bigger.
Click to expand...

Nice. I do just worry a tad about the Extremely thin girdle though.

I guess its a moot point if we're all recommending stones, but OP is insistent on 1ct mark :rodent: ...

anyhooot,, it was a bit fun hunting for stones while I procrastinated a bit :bigsmile: Good Luck ac75.


An incredible smaller performing stone will outshine any larger carat under performing stone anyday imo ::)
Click to expand...


agreed. extremely thin girdle is a chipping risk. enjoy your night D&T... p.s. no break from PS ok?
 
ac75|1290391687|2775057 said:
Ok, thanks. I will see if they are able to send me that.

Here are the details on one of the rocks I was considering.. What makes it a "fair" cut?

Cash Price $1,584
Credit Price: $1,616
Shape: Princess
Carat Weight: 1.00
Color: I
Clarity: Si2
Cut Grade: Fair
Table %: 82.00
Depth %: 71.50
Girdle: Slightly Thick to Very Thick
Culet: N
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.30-5.25x3.79 Length/Width ratio: 1.01
EGL: 85853609
Click to expand...


The K .84 I posted is 5.3x5.12....so only faces up minimally smaller, probably not even noticable to the eye... but its better cut- GIA certified- so the clarity is better.... and this EGL I above is prob closer to a K anyway. Just a thought.
 
D&T|1290396032|2775131 said:
sorry - I do see many posters already gave you plenty of princess cuts recommendations. However, I really just hate to see people do so much research to get a Not so great performer all in the name of "carat" weight is all. I do apologize for my rant, but here is just another food for thought

another recommendation, 100% trade in value, but I think you have to spend twice as much next time around. do check their trade in policy if it comes to it.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1339877.asp
Click to expand...

This stone has better color and clarity- and ideal cut so sparkly and performs extremely well... it is only .3mm x .25mm smaller than the 1 carat you posted that is EGL I I1. Plus upgrade policy for future. just a thought.
 
D&T|1290394708|2775104 said:
are you set on the 1carat mark? are you open to something smaller but better performer, from a vendor that has 100% upgrade policy? any of these questions important in your decision by chance?
Click to expand...
Hey, thank you guys so much for helping me w/this.

Let's just say "I" would love to get her a 1ct, but that's somewhat flexible as well. I don't want to go to 1/2 or 5/8, but .85+ is ok w/me.

I think my wife is fine w/that as well, as long as the diamond looked nice.

So help me understand a bit more on this. If the symmetry is nearly square, what else can ruin the cut? I know this would be much easier locally, but I've gone to numerous stores and nothing in my price range. I'm trying to find something in the middle. Not too small, D, or VVS, but not a 1.0 I3/L either. You know what I mean? And like I said, if there was something much better for $1700 +/-, I would do that as well.

I wish there was a solomon bros here, but there is not.
 
So help me understand a bit more on this. If the symmetry is nearly square, what else can ruin the cut?
Click to expand...
you don't know enough to evaluate the cut if all you have is the GIA report. you can have princess with the same depth and table that look totally different. that's why we generally recommend vendors who have ASET and provide images, so you have some idea what the stone will look like.

the one D&T posted looks nice-what about getting a ~0.75 ct that is upgradable? JA might be a good choice for you, avoid premium that comes with branded stones, and they will provide up to 3 ASET images.
 
honestly- the solomon brother stones you were looking at- were good-fair cut. this means that they will show more color becuase of an ok cut- less sparkle- and more inclusions. They are EGL certified.... so the L one you are looking at will look more like an M-N.... the J & I fair cut stones will be more like J-K-L in reality and factor in the fair cut that will make them look even darker- like an L-M-N.... so they will definitely look tinted or yellowish to the eye. Also- keep in mind that I1-I3 stones may have feathers near surface or edges (thin fractures) making them delicate and possible splitting and chipping...

The two james allen stones were *in the eyes of most people* better quality and better buys.... although smaller in size, the GIA certificate means their grades of J-K and VS2 are true, and their ideal cut will make them face up even whiter than their graded J-K. Also- they will sparkle like crazy and be really nice looking stones. The K has an extremely thin girdle- so you need to be careful for chipping but ANY princess stone with Ex. thin girdle wil be a chip risk....

These are the only james allen under budget....that have an excellent/ideal cut.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1339877.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/K-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1276108.asp

These are all randing from .87-.80ct with premium cut....
"premium cuts" not as sparkly and crisp as excellent/ideal, but still cut very good-excellent
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/K-IF-Premium-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1191499.asp (not as big as .84 james allen)
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/K-VVS1-Premium-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1150844.asp (again smaller face up than .84)
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Premium-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1174382.asp looks a little milky..??
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VVS1-Premium-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1179420.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/K-VVS1-Premium-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1188596.asp
 
Still searching... .

Spoke to John at Abazias... He did a search for me and said the 2 stones I'm looking at were the best he could find a my price point as well. They do not have asets though..
 
Princess cuts can be hard to shop for. Everyone here is harping on cut quality for a good reason. Better-cut stones will have more sparkle, hide inclusions, and appear whiter than poorly-cut ones. Unfortunately, there is so much variability in princess cuts that it's impossible to judge how well it's cut based on numbers alone. That's why we talk about detailed photos, ASETs, etc. An AGS cut grade of ideal is also a pretty good indicator of a well-cut stone, but AGS reports carry a price premium, and you're not likely to find them in your budget. No labs other than AGS grade cut quality in princesses. Also, the vendors that offer ASET images tend to be a little higher-priced than some of the other online vendors, but James Allen tends to have both lower prices and ASETs upon request, so they're a really nice starting point.

Check out these videos for an introduction to cut quality in princesses:
http://vimeo.com/627828
http://vimeo.com/2003555
http://vimeo.com/2050679

And color, just FYI:
http://vimeo.com/1853800

I think your compromise of finding a well-cut princess of around 0.85ct for a slightly higher price point is reasonable. You're taking our advice to improve cut quality, making color/clarity not all that important, but keeping size fairly important. As for clarity, I1s are likely to have visible inclusions, but may SI2s are eye-clean. I think it's reasonable to shoot for an eye-clean stone.

To me, this one looks the best of all the recommendations so far: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1339877.asp
...but it doesn't have the size you're looking for.

This is an AGS ideal diamond, just to give you an idea of what you can get in the AGS ideal world for about $2k:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1337366.asp

And this one is over 0.85ct, J/SI1, $1750 for PS members, and looks nice based on the picture. I recall you mentioned you may be able to bump your budget up to $1700...so how's $1750? I'd ask for an ASET on this one as it looks quite promising:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Premium-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1329447.asp

When you ask for ASET images, you can post them here for us to evaluate. Hope that helps!
 
hnestly, don't get caught up in bigger is better. Not always true.

Also- can't stress enough that without ASET images, or at least pictures you will have no idea how the cut looks. Fancy cut stones, like princess- ccan have be within the reccommended table and depth % but a total mess inside! Don't rely on numbers.
 
jstar, thank you so much for all that info.

Well I have been doing a lot of research and I think I'm going to place my order tomo from Abazias.

Cash Price $1,288
Credit Price: $1,314
Shape: Princess
Carat Weight: 1.00
Color: I
Clarity: I1
Cut Grade: Very Good
Table %: 70.00
Depth %: 71.50
Girdle: Thick to Very Thick
Culet: N
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.49-5.47x3.91
Length/Width ratio: 1.00
EGL: 54846502

It's pretty much the closest and best stone I could find to what I was looking for. I did alot of comparing ideal cuts that were much more money, and they were all very very close in symmetry to this stone. I know it's only part of the equation, so when I get it, I'm going to have it looked at, and if it's a dud, I'll return it. I have to roll the dice a little bit, and it might cost me $35 to do it, but we'll see what happens.

Does anyone know where I can take the stone in, to have an aset? I believe Helzberg does this, but anyone else?
 
Just a few comments...the table and depth numbers really do not tell you the whole story on a princess cut. Just because the table and depth are in the 'optimal range' does not mean that the rest of the proportions of the stone work well together. Did you watch the videos that were posted? That illustration of cut quality is the reason that we recommend going with vendors who provide images and ASET images of their diamonds. Of course you can pick what you want but I want you to make the most informed decision about what you are getting. Also, did you check with the vendor that this stone is eye-clean to your requirements, if that is important to you?

Good luck :)
 
Congrats on the purchase I hope it works out for you! :bigsmile:


Now, when you get the stone make sure to have you and your wife check it out in ALL lighting scenarios.... outside in bright lights, outside in bright lights under a tree, inside lightings.... candle lighting, etc. Make sure you are happy with the sparkle, and that the inclusions are clean to you.


If you are unhappy, return and try again. It's better that you are happy then settling, because in the long run you don't want to harbor regret over what should be an exciting purchase.
 
Thanks Amy, .. I haven't bought it yet, but hopefully tomorrow.

I'll try to coordinate to have it inspected the day it gets here or soon after.. And if it's not what we want, I'll send it back, and I think I'll just have to go w/a smaller stone from James Allen, or any other site you guys recommend. Or I might just have to up my budget to get her a 1ct.
 
Ok, so I just placed the order.. Hopefully things go smooth, and it's a nice stone.

Some observations....

I called 2 days ago, and spoke to a man named John. He was very nice and helpful, and I told him about the price on Solomon Bros and he said to send him the stock numbers and he'd price match it. I did and he kept getting a slightly higher amount (SB has 2 listings for same stone). We emailed back and forth a few times and he finally said he'd honor the lowest price I saw at SB (I emailed him a print out).

When I told him what setting I wanted, he emailed me back a slightly higher price because the price of gold had gone up. I emailed him the link to their site and it still showed the old price (even today it's the same price). He said he'd give me the old price. :confused:

Anyway, he did not email me back this morning so I figured he's prob gone for the Holidays. I called and a lady confirmed, but said she could help me w/the order. I told her about the prices and I could forward her my email w/John. She said ok, got my info, and just asked me what the matched stone price was. And gave me the lower price on the setting w/out ever saying "price of gold had gone up"... :confused:

So I paid the agreed price, and I'm just hoping they do have the stone available and all is well. She said the 10 day return period begins when I receive the ring, and I don't have to have it back to them w/in 10 days, just need to let them know what's going on. Sounds fair.

Also, about the EGL cert, she said it's a "pre-graded" stone, and they would order the EGL cert for me, if I decided to keep the stone?

Hmm... I was going to get the stone appraised anyway, so that doesn't bother me as much. If I keep the stone, I hope they don't want to charge me for the EGL..
 
Weird...not sure what they mean by pre-graded, but typically the cert arrives with the stone. Never ordered from Abazias though.

I see quite a few red flags with that diamond, and if it were me, I would have ruled it out. For starters, and EGL I1 is virtually guaranteed to have eye-visible inclusions, which are a serious dealbreaker for me. It's rare to find a GIA I1 that's eye-clean, much less and EGL. Also, some inclusions can be a threat to the durability of the stone. Take careful note of where the inclusions are, and send it back if there are feathers on the girdle, especially near the corners. Your stone is more likely to chip from inclusions in those spots because the corners are weak points. But hopefully it will turn out to be beautiful! Let us know how it goes.
 
What about searching for a second hand stone? I would definitely consider checking out pawn shops locally, possibly other places like ebay for second hand stuff. Especially look at rings with ugly settings- sometimes 2nd hand vendors price things like that lower, even with nice stones in them, oddly enough... and you can always scrap the setting and get a bit of $ that way too. If you were looking for a top cut, that wouldn't be the easiest way to find one, but if you just want to get a decently sparkly, largest stone possible, I definitely would try that route at least.

As it is, I think you're sacrificing so many factors that you would be better served not taking the "brand new" price hit. And that way you could also check stuff out in person. The cut on these is just not going to be that beautiful.

Or, maybe talk to her about working up to a 1 ct and go with a place with a great upgrade policy, and a smaller stone to start with. I mean, a badly cut princess is just *dead* looking IMO, unfortunately. And I'm afraid that's what you're gonna get. :blackeye: (Sorry, don't mean to be overly blunt there!)

Good luck!
 
I considered second hand, but I didn't think it was a much better choice. Well, it depends I guess.

Most if not all second hand in pawn shops, or on ebay will not even have cut symmetry or any kind of paper work on the stone. Whether GIA, or EGL. The main benefit is being able to see it in person (pawn shop), but prices here are still way more. On ebay, I think I'd be in the same boat as I am now (or worse).

If I send this stone back, I have a lead on another ring. It's from someone I know on a car forum. He said it's from a broken engagement. It's a PC .98 VS2, H color Leo Diamond he bought from JB Robinson Jewelers. It's in a 14k WG setting. He said he paid $7200, and will let me have it for $3000. He has the Leo certificate.

This is alot more than I wanted to spend, but sounds like a great buy. It's a riskier buying from a private seller, but If he's willing to send to an appraiser here first w/out any cash from me so I can have it verified, I would buy it.
 
ac75|1290744765|2779497 said:
I considered second hand, but I didn't think it was a much better choice. Well, it depends I guess.

Most if not all second hand in pawn shops, or on ebay will not even have cut symmetry or any kind of paper work on the stone. Whether GIA, or EGL. The main benefit is being able to see it in person (pawn shop), but prices here are still way more. On ebay, I think I'd be in the same boat as I am now (or worse).

If I send this stone back, I have a lead on another ring. It's from someone I know on a car forum. He said it's from a broken engagement. It's a PC .98 VS2, H color Leo Diamond he bought from JB Robinson Jewelers. It's in a 14k WG setting. He said he paid $7200, and will let me have it for $3000. He has the Leo certificate.

This is alot more than I wanted to spend, but sounds like a great buy. It's a riskier buying from a private seller, but If he's willing to send to an appraiser here first w/out any cash from me so I can have it verified, I would buy it.
Click to expand...


Well, apparently your stone isn't yet graded by EGL??? I am confused about that...


Als- symmetry is not the end all be all. When I said before that a one carat princess should be 5.5mm*5.5mm, I was trying to give yuo an idea of what size a 1 ct princess should face up as- as many of the stones you were looking at were 1ct- but cut deep and actually facing up like a .90ct stone. Make sure you talk to them- and that you get IN WRITING- that you do not have to send it back in 10 dyas but you do have to tell them what you rae doing. I would hate for you to get stuck with a stone you don't want to keep because of a game of "he said, she said" regarding their return policy.
 
Here's some interesting info on Leo diamonds if you decide to go that route. I had difficulty finding them with the search button and had to google it...
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/leo-cut-isnt-so-hot.2652/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/should-i-trust-the-gemex-rating-of-a-leo-diamond.92056/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/leo-diamonds-are-they-worth-the.1870/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/newbie-looking-at-a-leo-diamond.22102/
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...g-going-to-be-a-good-value-please-help.84795/

Some people do like Leo diamonds a lot, but they seem to be almost as variable as a standard cut, just with more facets. More doesn't necessarily equal better, though. I also have heard Leos tend to be cut deeply, meaning they will appear smaller face-up, as Amy mentioned.
 
Thanks for the help and all the great info guys!

I will post up how this stone turns out. Hopefully it's a good one.

When we were looking locally, there were a few I clarity, I color stones we thought were nice and I think only 1 was even certified. And I'm not sure by whom.
 
ac75|1290838449|2780169 said:
Thanks for the help and all the great info guys!

I will post up how this stone turns out. Hopefully it's a good one.

When we were looking locally, there were a few I clarity, I color stones we thought were nice and I think only 1 was even certified. And I'm not sure by whom.
Click to expand...


From what I understand, if a stone isn't certified... that stats they give you i.e. I clarity and I color are guesstimates obtained from looking at the stone and comparing it to a "guide". I bought a stone on ebay- and it said it was uncertified by when comparing to the GIA color and clarity grade charts/rules, it was a J I1..... well It's waaaaay below a J color. They pretty much use a guideline to give you an idea as to color, but once graded, it could very well be an M I2! BUT if you saw it in person and liked it- they that is great.

remember- it has to make you and your wife happy- not everyone else. Everyone here on PS has certain knowledge/experience/advice, and they know what would make THEM happy- ***For instance, it if was my 1,500 for a princess I would get a .75ish carat stone, with the top ideal cut- and then go as low as an I or J color and SI1 or SI2 clarity- actually the stone posted earlier by D&T is what I would have snatched up*** BUT someone else may say they would go with a .5 D-E-F- VS1-VS2 ideal cut.... so point is, everyone here has personal preference regarding cut, color, clarity, and carat within given budgets.... in the end, it has to be a stone that your wife wants to wear proudly and loves. period. end of story.

Hope you found the one, please let us know how it turns out, and if you need more options and/or your parameters or budget changes let us know!
 
Amys Bling|1290872416|2780330 said:
ac75|1290838449|2780169 said:
Thanks for the help and all the great info guys!

I will post up how this stone turns out. Hopefully it's a good one.

When we were looking locally, there were a few I clarity, I color stones we thought were nice and I think only 1 was even certified. And I'm not sure by whom.
Click to expand...


From what I understand, if a stone isn't certified... that stats they give you i.e. I clarity and I color are guesstimates obtained from looking at the stone and comparing it to a "guide". I bought a stone on ebay- and it said it was uncertified by when comparing to the GIA color and clarity grade charts/rules, it was a J I1..... well It's waaaaay below a J color. They pretty much use a guideline to give you an idea as to color, but once graded, it could very well be an M I2! BUT if you saw it in person and liked it- they that is great.

remember- it has to make you and your wife happy- not everyone else. Everyone here on PS has certain knowledge/experience/advice, and they know what would make THEM happy- ***For instance, it if was my 1,500 for a princess I would get a .75ish carat stone, with the top ideal cut- and then go as low as an I or J color and SI1 or SI2 clarity- actually the stone posted earlier by D&T is what I would have snatched up*** BUT someone else may say they would go with a .5 D-E-F- VS1-VS2 ideal cut.... so point is, everyone here has personal preference regarding cut, color, clarity, and carat within given budgets.... in the end, it has to be a stone that your wife wants to wear proudly and loves. period. end of story.

Hope you found the one, please let us know how it turns out, and if you need more options and/or your parameters or budget changes let us know!
Click to expand...
Exactly! And very well said.

I will and thanks!
 
Update. John at Abazia emailed me and said the stone arrived and it's "very dirty" and said I would not like... So back to searching....
 
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