Need Help!

[Roqsteady]

I know why you may prefer GIA to begin with, but let me point out two things:

1) AGS is not only just as strict, but just as reputable when it comes to diamond grading for color and clarity. It is even more reputable when it comes to diamond cut, which leads me to my second point.

2) Consumers' over-reliance on the GIA's cut grade "EX EX EX" or "Triple Ex" is exactly what leads to diamonds like the ones you bought. You will find that when looking at the top of the line, branded hearts and arrows diamonds sold by PS vendors, the majority of them will come with an AGS cert, not a GIA cert. Are there gorgeous top of the line GIA certed diamonds? Of course - but they require additional vetting by reputable vendors such as GoG, HPD, WF, etc.

I highly encourage you to consider AGS (most people here actually prefer it) as well as GIA in light of the fact that the GIA's loose cut grading system is in large part what led to your predicament in the first place.

 

[jd2014]

Valid point. I'm open, I just only know GIA. In my head, that seemed to be the "gold" standard of certifications.

 

[msop04]

I know why you may prefer GIA to begin with, but let me point out two things:

1) AGS is not only just as strict, but just as reputable when it comes to diamond grading for color and clarity. It is even more reputable when it comes to diamond cut, which leads me to my second point.

2) Consumers' over-reliance on the GIA's cut grade "EX EX EX" or "Triple Ex" is exactly what leads to diamonds like the ones you bought. You will find that when looking at the top of the line, branded hearts and arrows diamonds sold by PS vendors, the majority of them will come with an AGS cert, not a GIA cert. Are there gorgeous top of the line GIA certed diamonds? Of course - but they require additional vetting by reputable vendors such as GoG, HPD, WF, etc.

I highly encourage you to consider AGS (most people here actually prefer it) as well as GIA in light of the fact that the GIA's loose cut grading system is in large part what led to your predicament in the first place.

Very well stated, Roqsteady!

 

[jd2014]

How does this one look:

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-g-color-vs1-clarity_LD04481988?click_id=793379908

 

[jd2014]

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?pt=setform&track=DiamondSearchRD#diamonds_pid=LD04391832

 

[jd2014]

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-g-color-vs2-clarity_LD04477731?click_id=170676476

 

[proto]

I know AGSL is a fine lab, but I had always understood that it was very very marginally softer on grading colour/clarity (on average) than GIA.

Agree totally on the cut/light performance being a complete washout in favour of AGSL over GIA though, as EX cut is too wide.

Any further views from forum members?

 

[Lorelei]

I'd prefer GIA certified. G Color and VS2 was my original range and I thought I was getting a steal on the VS1. Now that I've looked at the MB florescence for 24 hours, I think I'd prefer a faint or None. I'd prefer to stay in the 1.7 - 1.8 range if in my budget.

Hi jd,

I think returning this diamond will be definitely for the best in the long run, I am sorry this is going to interfere with your plans for this weekend, but I think you can find a much better option that you will both be very happy with, all doubts removed. As the others have said AGS graded diamonds are on a par with GIA and many in the trade that are cut oriented even prefer AGS's method of cut grading, so it's something to consider. Also if you prefer to stick to G colour or better then by all means we can find you stones in that range, not everyone wants to lower their specs, after all, you are the one buying the stone!

I see msop has provided some selections for you above, she knows what she is doing, I see you posted some diamonds from Blue Nile Jd, the only thing is they don't provide images so we can evaluate the cut quality, we can certainly look at BN if you wish but it can be preferable in my opinion to go with vendors that provide all the cut analysis you could wish for so you get it right, I would hate for you to be disappointed a second time, unlikely if the numbers are within a certain range but not impossible.

 

[Lorelei]

I know AGSL is a fine lab, but I had always understood that it was very very marginally softer on grading colour/clarity (on average) than GIA.

Agree totally on the cut/light performance being a complete washout in favour of AGSL over GIA though, as EX cut is too wide.

Any further views from forum members?

'Morning Proto!

You raise a good point above, I find opinions from those in the trade vary, colour being the one most often discussed. Maybe some of the pro's can chime in on that one...

 

[Lorelei]

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-g-color-vs2-clarity_LD04477731?click_id=170676476

The diamonds you chose from BN look much better Jd, well done! The proportions of each could possibly work very well together, certainly better than the diamond you have, but two of these in particular I would personally like an Idealscope image to check out the light return and unfortunately, BN don't supply such services. I would suggest let's keep these in mind while we see what else is available.

If you like to search for diamonds yourself, below is a cheat sheet I made based on teachings from some of the experts including John Pollard with a direct quote from John himself below. You can also run any scores through the Holloway Cut Advisor https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca to see which score below 2, the HCA is a rejection tool, diamonds scoring below 2 are deemed to be worth further investigation, any images you might have trump the HCA scores.

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

From John Pollard.

As the above implies, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

With that said, here''s a "Cliff''s Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).

 

[Lorelei]

Here are some selections for you. I added VS2 clarity grade in order to get as close as possible to the size you want for the budget and keeping G or higher colour if that is your preference at this time.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12256/ $22770.00

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3114548.htm?source=pricescope

Request an Idealscope image for the diamond below if interested.


http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5109491-1.71-carat-Round-diamond-E-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5109491&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

I really like the look of the diamond below, request an IS image if interested.


http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5088641-1.73-carat-Round-diamond-F-color-VS2-clarity.aspx

James Allen also offer Idealscope, you can request one for the diamond below if you would like more information.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.85-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-262143

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I know AGSL is a fine lab, but I had always understood that it was very very marginally softer on grading colour/clarity (on average) than GIA.

Agree totally on the cut/light performance being a complete washout in favour of AGSL over GIA though, as EX cut is too wide.

Any further views from forum members?

'Morning Proto!

You raise a good point above, I find opinions from those in the trade vary, colour being the one most often discussed. Maybe some of the pro's can chime in on that one...

Proto/Lorelei, From our experience we do not see any evidence that AGSL is not within the widely accepted one grade plus/minus tolerance that is inherent in human grading, although anectdotal evidence is often sited that perpetuates this belief among some folks. We have a long history with both labs and we feel that in terms of color and clarity grading they are generally in line with one another. AGS and GIA share a common heritage and are highly cooperative. Grading practices and standards at their respective labs are much more alike than different, including the fact that AGS color master sets are also GIA graded. The big difference as you point out is the superior cut quality analysis performed at AGSL. For more on diamond grading at AGSL, there is a series of articles posted here on pricescope. The color grading article is here:
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/ags-laboratory-color-grading-diamonds

 

[jd2014]

Thanks all! Please keep posting acceptable diamonds. I am on a mission now. Heading to jeweler shortly to return this guy.

 

[jd2014]

Hi All, again thanks for your help. I did return the diamond and got a full refund. I've been scouring the internet and have found a few diamonds, but haven't been able to pull the trigger. I decided to give the jeweler another shot and just got back seeing two diamonds. I am attaching the GIA reports. I've run them through the HCA and one comes out <2 and one >2. Both are G, VS2 1.8 diamond GIA XXX. Visually, both are eye clean.

In looking at the reports, is there anything that sticks on on either that is concerning? I'm leaning towards the HCA>2, if only for piece of mind. Under no magnification, they look very similar. The only two disceernable differences in my mind is the symetry of the diamond. The lesser of the HCA (Diamond 1) had a thicker Crown Height 15.5%, compared to the 14% of Diamond 2. Next to each other, I was able to spot which was which based on that alone. Is the 14% a cause for a concern? The only other thing I could say about Diamond 2 is it seemed to have thicker dimensions in the diamond. I don't know what the word for that is (hearts and arrows) . Diamond 2 inclusions are a little close to center, but still not visible to naked eye.

Anyway, any thoughts on the reports? Unfortunately, I do not have pictures but was hoping to get some insight if there is any cause for concern.

 

[jd2014]

Correction, diamond 1 had more prominent hearts and arrows.

 

[jd2014]

Here are the actual GIA's.