Need opinions on red spinel

[fredflintstone]

Oh, one more thing. Extinction looks worse in pictures/videos than real life, as the camera is blocking light, reflecting of facets, and if a finger picture/video the skin texture can show through, plus the camera just cannot see like the human eye.

But with that said, pictures and videos can give hints to extinction problems, but the only true way to know is see a gem in person.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Oh, one more thing. Extinction looks worse in pictures/videos than real life, as the camera is blocking light, reflecting of facets, and if a finger picture/video the skin texture can show through, plus the camera just cannot see like the human eye.

But with that said, pictures and videos can give hints to extinction problems, but the only true way to know is see a gem in person.

Adding to Fred's comments:
It appears to be what I have named a type 1 bowtie. Caused by the stone being on the shallow side (not deep as those bowties are confined to the table only, like a nail head round diamond, or type 2 bow tie).
The extinction is caused by the camera image seeing (no light) the black camera lens. Generally the camera lens is both blacker than your head and subtends a larger angular are because it is close.
You probably also have two eyes and so if the gem enables one eye to see a light or not see your head, then the dark area can be bright for one eye and dark for the other. This creates binocular rivalry when the two messages arrive at your brain - and that is a great thing because it makes that part of the image zing!

 

[CaseyLouLou]

Red spinels ste fussy for several reasons, (1) They NEVER behave for the camera. They can look significantly better or worse in person but will almost never behave in like they do on camera.
(2) Red spinels shift - a lot - from one environment to the next.
(3) ALL of the rough coming out of Burma now is packed in oil. They don’t even bother checking the quality of the rough. They do it so it’s harder to see cracks and fissures. Sometimes the stones cut nicely and appear a little included…until they dry out. I’ve actually picked up decent-looking cut stones with tweezers only to have pieces flake off.
(4) Prices are outrageous. Even dealers in the Thai gem markets are paying $1500-$2000/ct in the 1ct sizes for good (not great) quality - if you can even find it. I have been in Bangkok for the better part of 2022 and am very familiar with the gem market here. Many people who have dealt in red spinel for decades won’t touch it any more because the prices are so outrages and good quality is so scarce.

…so, I would be very skeptical about buying Red spinel from anyone in Thailand unless you know them by referral.

I also hate to rain on anyones parade, but I’ve been neck deep in the stuff for months now and have not found anything I felt was worth buying.

There is one spinel dealer I know from Burma who manages to consistently get his hands in good, clean material. He has a Shop in Silom off of Mahesak road. His family runs the shop and sells the mediocre quality stuff in the storefront. You need to know the owner by name and a personal referral to even see him - or the good stuff in his private reserves. He does sell on IG but good stones are usually sold in minutes of posting them.

He goes by “Mister Spinel” on IG. I believe him to be trustworthy but do not know him all that well,

Again, I hate to rain on anyones parade here, but good material is hard to find.

I would stick with reputable US dealers who have a generous return policies so you can see the stone in many lighting scenarios.

Yes, you’ll pay a higher price, but the truth is that decent quality red spinel is not cheap anywhere - including at the mines in Myanmar. The competition has just become increasingly intense since Myanmar opened in 2013 and Chinese buyers have been willing to pay very high prices that have driven up costs everywhere.

Please just be careful. There are many good, honest Thai gem dealers - and many crooks as well.

*Just a note on fluorescence: The truly red reds usually have just enough iron to quench the fluorescence significantly, The super fluorescent ones are usually more pinkish - especially in the sunlight.

The problem is when there is too much iron. The stone can look nice under the right conditions but can quickly go dark or take on brownish hues.

In any case. Please be careful, and if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I have had a lot of exposure to the market and was planning to enter the trade at one point…but came to my senses and decided to stick with my day job

I’ve been involved with red spinel for over 20 years and I just don’t touch it anymore.

*oh, and one more thing about spinel. It can be super pretty, but I have scratched and broken many spinels in personal jewelry. The moh’s scale is logarithmic, so an 8 (spinel) I’d waaaaay softer than a (9) ruby/sapphire.

It’s durable enough fur jewelry, but far from indestructible. You do have to be careful with it!

What do you think of this one? I’m told it is orange-red as opposed to pinkish-red.



Indoors

 

[CaseyLouLou]

What do you think of this one? I’m told it is orange-red as opposed to pinkish-red.



Indoors

More photos. It’s from Burma and has fluorescence. Seller was recommended here.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

That's really pretty to me!!!

 

[CaseyLouLou]

That's really pretty to me!!!

Thanks. They had these 4 in my budget. The one on the left is more orange and the other two look to have a lot of black.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I don't mind the left one either but I think yours is the best! Definitely not the two on the right! Too dark imo.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Should also clarify that I am in no way an expert! I have very simple criteria, pretty or not pretty and an assessment of windows!!!

I think it's really pretty but you might want to ask about any potential window depending on how fussy you are!!! I have found that a rich colour will help any potential windows because you see colour instead of a hole through to hell!

 

[CaseyLouLou]

Should also clarify that I am in no way an expert! I have very simple criteria, pretty or not pretty and an assessment of windows!!!

I think it's really pretty but you might want to ask about any potential window depending on how fussy you are!!! I have found that a rich colour will help any potential windows because you see colour instead of a hole through to hell!

I did ask about a window and was told there isn’t any. It’s a spready stone so I am a little concerned but I think what you’re saying makes sense.

 

[CaseyLouLou]

Should also clarify that I am in no way an expert! I have very simple criteria, pretty or not pretty and an assessment of windows!!!

I think it's really pretty but you might want to ask about any potential window depending on how fussy you are!!! I have found that a rich colour will help any potential windows because you see colour instead of a hole through to hell!

Before this one I almost purchased one from Caratzone and then I stumbled on your old 2018 nightmare thread and backed out. I’m so relieved that I did my homework first.

I’m still a little concerned about a window and will ask again. I have some stones that have small windows but they really don’t appear as a window. They are deeper colors.

This photo looks like the window isn’t really there. Sometimes background matters too but it doesn’t look like a horrible window to me.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Before this one I almost purchased one from Caratzone and then I stumbled on your old 2018 nightmare thread and backed out. I’m so relieved that I did my homework first.

I’m still a little concerned about a window and will ask again. I have some stones that have small windows but they really don’t appear as a window. They are deeper colors.

This photo looks like the window isn’t really there. Sometimes background matters too but it doesn’t look like a horrible window to me.

I personally would be fine with that!

It reminds me of my rubellite





It's not a see through hole where you can see the road!

 

[CaseyLouLou]

I personally would be fine with that!

It reminds me of my rubellite





It's not a see through hole where you can see the road!

Yes that one looks fine. Nice color too!

I had one dark spinel that had a slight window and it wasn’t so much that the window was see through but that it didn’t sparkle in the middle - only around the outside. I had it recut and now it sparkles as it should but it’s also quite a bit darker too. Can’t win.

In this case I want color over sparkle which is so strange for me!

 

[voce]

If only you had posted in May! I bought this one in your desired budget and carat range this May. I would recommend this vendor if you haven't tried them. https://www.etsy.com/listing/1224631941/145-ct-certified-natural-burmese-myanmar

Before this one I almost purchased one from Caratzone and then I stumbled on your old 2018 nightmare thread and backed out. I’m so relieved that I did my homework first.

I’m still a little concerned about a window and will ask again. I have some stones that have small windows but they really don’t appear as a window. They are deeper colors.

This photo looks like the window isn’t really there. Sometimes background matters too but it doesn’t look like a horrible window to me.

Is that the one you will buy? It looks so beautiful in the picture!

 

[CaseyLouLou]

If only you had posted in May! I bought this one in your desired budget and carat range this May. I would recommend this vendor if you haven't tried them. https://www.etsy.com/listing/1224631941/145-ct-certified-natural-burmese-myanmar



Is that the one you will buy? It looks so beautiful in the picture!

I had decided to buy this one but then I asked again about the window and am told that it has a small one. I’m torn. It doesn’t look too bad and is otherwise what I want but I don’t want to end up disappointed.

I asked if they had anything for a bit more money and was shown one with a crack and inclusions which is odd.

I’m willing to spend a bit more but only if it gets me something nice.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I had decided to buy this one but then I asked again about the window and am told that it has a small one. I’m torn. It doesn’t look too bad and is otherwise what I want but I don’t want to end up disappointed.

I asked if they had anything for a bit more money and was shown one with a crack and inclusions which is odd.

I’m willing to spend a bit more but only if it gets me something nice.

If you've got a bit more and you're not at peace with it, don't get it.

It's a completely different decision if you have other parameters you need to fulfill (eg cost, size, shape, very specific colour). You could potentially tolerate a tiny window. But if you're in no rush for this gem and it's just something you're searching for, don't get it until you love it.

This is wonky! I got wonky despite the wonky shape and a tiny window. Wonky was incredibly cheap and most importantly Wonky is the perfect shade of pink. I've yet to see another pink I love as much in this tone.

 

[CaseyLouLou]

If you've got a bit more and you're not at peace with it, don't get it.

It's a completely different decision if you have other parameters you need to fulfill (eg cost, size, shape, very specific colour). You could potentially tolerate a tiny window. But if you're in no rush for this gem and it's just something you're searching for, don't get it until you love it.

This is wonky! I got wonky despite the wonky shape and a tiny window. Wonky was incredibly cheap and most importantly Wonky is the perfect shade of pink. I've yet to see another pink I love as much in this tone.

Here’s another option. Sun and shade snapshots from a video. Could be a bit too dark in low light maybe? Looks pretty bright in the sun. It’s very clean.

 

[CaseyLouLou]

Here’s another option. Sun and shade snapshots from a video. Could be a bit too dark in low light maybe? Looks pretty bright in the sun. It’s very clean.

I asked for photos next to the previous one. Color looks a bit darker to me but very similar. This one is more pinkish than orange apparently. They say no window. I think there could be a small one but it does look better.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Can you ask them: will it black out in poor lighting or stay red?

That's my go to question for my stones! Vendor even took pictures under the desk of my Spess so I could see its general performance in poor lighting.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I asked for photos next to the previous one. Color looks a bit darker to me but very similar. This one is more pinkish than orange apparently. They say no window. I think there could be a small one but it does look better.

Ahh in this shot the "windows" look about the same to me!

I like the color of the left stone (cushion) more.

Just by a hair though!

 

[CaseyLouLou]

Ahh in this shot the "windows" look about the same to me!

I like the color of the left stone (cushion) more.

Just by a hair though!

Now I’m told that the newest one has a small crack. I can’t see it and I’m not sure if it’s surface reaching. They don’t seem to understand my question about it reaching the surface. If it’s internal is that an issue?

 

[JewelledEscalators]

Now I’m told that the newest one has a small crack. I can’t see it and I’m not sure if it’s surface reaching. They don’t seem to understand my question about it reaching the surface. If it’s internal is that an issue?

I'd be inclined to say if it is so small you can't even see it in a magnified pic like this, it's probably not an issue.

 

[CaseyLouLou]

I'd be inclined to say if it is so small you can't even see it in a magnified pic like this, it's probably not an issue.

Do you think that white spot I circled is where it might reach the surface? If so, is that a durability issue? The yellow line is where I think the crack is so it might reach where the white spot is but I’m not sure.

 

[JewelledEscalators]

Do you think that white spot I circled is where it might reach the surface? If so, is that a durability issue? The yellow line is where I think the crack is so it might reach where the white spot is but I’m not sure.

I can't say anything much either way as can't see the details very clearly in the pic. To me the white dot doesn't look like a crack/fracture, or at least one that is surface reaching. A very small dot like that might be a seed like inclusion that is on the surface of the stone and has been cut through but I would expect that would show a pit which I can't see.

Perhaps the 'crack' is on the bottom left of the stone where something fuzzy seems to be going on. But that could just be the light.

I would ask for more photos and ask where the 'crack' is - you never know, they might be referring to a chip rather than an internal fracture.

 

[CaseyLouLou]

I can't say anything much either way as can't see the details very clearly in the pic. To me the white dot doesn't look like a crack/fracture, or at least one that is surface reaching. A very small dot like that might be a seed like inclusion that is on the surface of the stone and has been cut through but I would expect that would show a pit which I can't see.

Perhaps the 'crack' is on the bottom left of the stone where something fuzzy seems to be going on. But that could just be the light.

I would ask for more photos and ask where the 'crack' is - you never know, they might be referring to a chip rather than an internal fracture.

The blue circle is theirs supposedly showing the crack. It’s tough with the language barrier to understand if it’s a problem or not. I will ask for more photos.

I’m leaning towards it being an internal fracture and a small one that shouldn’t cause any issues.

Thanks!

 

[CaseyLouLou]

I decided to go with the cushion. It has a more open color. The window doesn’t look too bad to me in most of the photos and videos so I’m going to hope that the color makes up for it. It’s in my budget although not a small amount of money. I have a preowned setting in mind that will fit this stone too.

Wish me luck!

 

[JewelledEscalators]

I prefer the cushion too. Do post pics of it when it arrives!

 

[maru8888777]

It looks like a very beautiful color!

 

[lovedogs]

I don't want to thread Jack, but for anyone researching red spinel in the future: if you're willing to compromise on size and order from overseas, you can find pretty great stones under 1k USD.

Got to choose between these 3 (between .4 and .55ct and under 1k)

 

[Neptune]

I don't want to thread Jack, but for anyone researching red spinel in the future: if you're willing to compromise on size and order from overseas, you can find pretty great stones under 1k USD.

Got to choose between these 3 (between .4 and .55ct and under 1k)

For easy reference, let’s say that they are all 1K which makes them $1818 - $2500 per ct. good prices for these materials and sizes?

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Yaaaaay I like the cushion cut best too!!!

Please show us when you get it!!!