need some help grading a diamond color and value

[EA21]

hello everyone
i bought a diamond,couple of days ago.. i think i got a good deal on it,but i am not such of an expert on this subject,so i will appreciate if you can help me figure it out more clearly,and maybe also help me to understand the exact color of it. (i am not so sure) the seller says it's a "Fancy Greenish Yellow" i think it's more like a "Fancy Grayish Green" (its more dark/blueish-gray,than -greenish yellow)
its a 1.55 CT, round cut,7.0 x 4.7 mm, and suppose to be -VS2 clarity
i paid around 1000$ for it.

http://oi47.tinypic.com/b6u0rd.jpg

http://oi49.tinypic.com/331ixkn.jpg

http://oi50.tinypic.com/2552f83.jpg

http://oi47.tinypic.com/2rpa36d.jpg

View My Video
thanks.

 

[EA21]

any one?

 

[chrono]

No lab report? Have you received it?

 

[EA21]

No lab report? Have you received it?

nop. no certificate,and i haven't received it yet.
thanks.

 

[chrono]

Not knowing how accurate the pictures and video are, and if the stone is treated or untreated, it is difficult to give an estimate on colour, clarity and value.

 

[denverappraiser]

Value is based on weight, color, clarity, cutting and market. We know next to nothing about ANY of these things. If you've got the stone in hand it's easy enough to weigh it and confirm that it's actually a diamond but that's far short of enough information to make anything like a useful answer and it's not clear if even this has been done. The closest we have to a clue is that the most the last guy could get is $1000 for it.

 

[EA21]

Not knowing how accurate the pictures and video are, and if the stone is treated or untreated, it is difficult to give an estimate on colour, clarity and value.

suppose to be vs2 clarity,"Fancy Greenish Yellow" Unheat/Untreat

 

[denverappraiser]

Not knowing how accurate the pictures and video are, and if the stone is treated or untreated, it is difficult to give an estimate on colour, clarity and value.

suppose to be vs2 clarity,"Fancy Greenish Yellow" Unheat/Untreat

Supposed by whom?

 

[EA21]

Not knowing how accurate the pictures and video are, and if the stone is treated or untreated, it is difficult to give an estimate on colour, clarity and value.

suppose to be vs2 clarity,"Fancy Greenish Yellow" Unheat/Untreat

Supposed by whom?

the jewelry store in thailand that i bought the diamond from them (an auction)

 

[denverappraiser]

I'm going to venture to guess that the heart of your question is whether you got a 'deal' although there are other sorts of questions as well. To a large extent this depends on what you want and what you are considering as alternatives.

Any statement of value MUST contain an element of what it's worth to whom, when and under what circumstances. Again, the most last guy got $1000 so lets start there. Why are you suspecting the value is either more or less than that? What do you mean by 'value''?

 

[EA21]

I'm going to venture to guess that the heart of your question is whether you got a 'deal' although there are other sorts of questions as well. To a large extent this depends on what you want and what you are considering as alternatives.
you are right.

Any statement of value MUST contain an element of what it's worth to whom, when and under what circumstances. Again, the most last guy got $1000 so lets start there. Why are you suspecting the value is either more or less than that? What do you mean by 'value''?

can you direct me to a store/a dealer/private seller,that can offer me a round cut,VS2 clarity-fancy green color diamond 1.55 ct in that price range?
that i consider value.

 

[denverappraiser]

C) Changing the definition of 'value' from what it would bring between a willing buyer and a willing seller to something else.

I"m confident you would have no problem finding a seller who will ask more than this. Most US specialty jewelry stores probably would, although most US specialty jewelry store don't sell this sort of thing so I'm not sure that's a very useful definition of value in your situation.

 

[denverappraiser]

I'm going to venture to guess that the heart of your question is whether you got a 'deal' although there are other sorts of questions as well. To a large extent this depends on what you want and what you are considering as alternatives.
you are right.

Any statement of value MUST contain an element of what it's worth to whom, when and under what circumstances. Again, the most last guy got $1000 so lets start there. Why are you suspecting the value is either more or less than that? What do you mean by 'value''?

can you direct me to a store/a dealer/private seller,that can offer me a round cut,VS2 clarity-fancy green color diamond 1.55 ct in that price range?
that i consider value.

It is no problem to find someone who will sell you something that they claim to be a round VS2 fancy green 1.55 natural diamond for $1000. I suspect I could even find someone who will agree to sell you the Brooklyn bridge for that. I would probably look on ebay for this sort of thing. Personally, I would not have paid that much but that's the nature of auctions. I wouldn't have won. If they had decent paperwork that actually says what they're claiming they probably could have sold it for more and they chose not to do this. That's not a good sign but I suppose it's possible they were just stupid. It happens.

I take it you're suspecting this is 'worth' more, not less, than what you paid? Why?

 

[denverappraiser]

duplicate post

 

[EA21]

Not knowing how accurate the pictures and video are, and if the stone is treated or untreated, it is difficult to give an estimate on colour, clarity and value.

suppose to be vs2 clarity,"Fancy Greenish Yellow" Unheat/Untreat

Supposed by whom?

the jewelry store in thailand that i bought the diamond from them (an auction)

OK, so the same people who graded it set the value at $1000, as evidenced by the fact that they willingly sold it for that. That's fine, and the fact that it was an auction means that presumably there were other bidders willing to pay a similar amount but no more. That's a pretty good place to start. first-they didn't set the value at a 1000$ . the bidding was start on 0.99 cents.

What would make it worth less?
v v A) You don't like it. The right price on the wrong thing is no bargain.
v B) the auction was an anomoly. They would have taken less but found bidders who would drive the price up.

What would make it worth more?
v A) They marketed it incorrectly and they would have been able to get more with a different strategy.
v B) The auction was an anomoly. Sensible bidders weren't bidding for non-gemological reasons (like they were busy that day).
vC) Changing the definition of 'value' from what it would bring between a willing buyer and a willing seller to something else.

all answers are right.

[quote
It is no problem to find someone who will sell you something that they claim to be a round VS2 fancy green 1.55 natural diamond for $1000. I suspect I could even find someone who will agree to sell you the Brooklyn bridge for that. I would probably look on ebay for this sort of thing. Personally, I would not have paid that much but that's the nature of auctions. I wouldn't have won. If they had decent paperwork that actually says what they're claiming they probably could have sold it for more and they chose not to do this. That's not a good sign but I suppose it's possible they were just stupid. It happens. so, you think it was a frued?

I take it you're suspecting this is 'worth' more, not less, than what you paid? Why? ][/quote] becuse i have paypal guaranty,so i dont think they have a reason to lie. and assuming they didn't... you can't find that deal in that price.

 

[denverappraiser]

You're misunderstand the concept of auctions. The way they set the value is by agreeing the sale. Starting price has nothing to do with it. They COULD have set a reserve if they chose to do so. They could have had their friends shill bidding on it and bught it themselves if they didn't like the price. They CHOSE to sell it for $1000, presumably because that's the most they thought they could get. Maybe they were wrong. Maybe they were stupid. Maybe they were hurting for the money and needed to make a deal. All of these are valid options but none are gemological properties. Was it an anomoly? Mabye. Was it a bargain? Maybe. We've got no evidence for either of these and it sounds like you don't either.

The answer to your question by the way is to get it graded and appraised by someone chosen by YOU and to discuss with your appraiser your own definition of value that you want them to apply.

 

[denverappraiser]

Of course they have reason to lie but no, I'm not accusing them of fraud. They chose to sell it as an undocumented stone in an auction. I'm actually giving them the benefit of the doubt that they made this choice wisely. You seem to be suspecting that they were foolish. An interesting additional tidbit is how many transactions this jeweler has done on ebay. If it's large, that's evidence that they have a fair amount of experience at making exactly this decision. It is, of course, entirely possible that they screwed up on this one as you are supposing but I don't quite understand why you're expecting this without even looking at the stone.

 

[denverappraiser]

becuse i have paypal guaranty.

You didn't link the ad but the paypal guarantee is that nothing in the add is incorrect. Based on your above posts, they've claimed that someone called it 1.55/VS2/etc etc. This is surely true.

I'm not saying it was a bad deal. I have no evidence either way and I wouldn't answer that question without looking at the stone anyway. When it arrives, check it out. If it doesn't meet your standards, send it back (assuming the dealer has a return policy). There ARE fine jewelers on ebay, there ARE fine jewelers in Thailand.

 

[EA21]

You're misunderstand the concept of auctions. The way they set the value is by agreeing the sale. Starting price has nothing to do with it. They COULD have set a reserve if they chose to do so. They could have had their friends shill bidding on it and bught it themselves if they didn't like the price. They CHOSE to sell it for $1000, presumably because that's the most they thought they could get. Maybe they were wrong. Maybe they were stupid. Maybe they were hurting for the money and needed to make a deal. All of these are valid options but none are gemological properties. Was it an anomoly? Mabye. Was it a bargain? Maybe. We've got no evidence for either of these and it sounds like you don't either.

The answer to your question by the way is to get it graded and appraised by someone chosen by YOU and to discuss with your appraiser your own definition of value that you want them to apply.

All of these are valid options but none are gemological

thats why i asked what i asked here.

 

[denverappraiser]

thats why i asked what i asked here.

We seem to be going in circles. You asked for grading, color and value, none of which is available given the data present and what it sounds like you really want to know is if the jeweler (or you) made a foolish deal. That's not available either but it's a VERY different question.

 

[chrono]

The gemmological questions are these : they claim it is a 1.55 ct fancy grayish green untreated diamond of VS2 clarity. Where is the reputable 3rd party verification? They can claim whatever they want but until proven so, this is not a fact. Is it really 1.55 ct? Is it graded accurately as a fancy grayish green (per a worldwide recognizable and adhered to standard)? Is it truly a VS2 (again, per the standard mentioned)? Secondly, neither you nor I can verify treatment. How do you really know it is untreated? They are plenty of eBay vendors who sell gems with undisclosed treatment and that do not look as represented but are still in business. Unless all these questions can be answered with facts and not opinions, it is impossible to form any measure of valuation or market price.

 

[EA21]

thats why i asked what i asked here.

We seem to be going in circles. You asked for grading, color and value, none of which is available given the data present and what it sounds like you really want to know is if the jeweler (or you) made a foolish deal. That's not available either but it's a VERY different question.

i asked a gemological questions here . (i understand now that this is very hard/maybe impossible -to answer such questions base on what we know,without checking the stone itself) all the other questions that came up here, they are all- your guesses- to understand the bottom line of what i was really wanted to know (eventually) and like i said -you were right! but Because i know that this is a gemological forum,i Prefered to asked the questions in a way that i thought you can help me to understand what was i realy want to understand. you didn't.
but thanks any way for trying to.

The gemmological questions are these : they claim it is a 1.55 ct fancy grayish green untreated diamond of VS2 clarity. Where is the reputable 3rd party verification? They can claim whatever they want but until proven so, this is not a fact. Is it really 1.55 ct? Is it graded accurately as a fancy grayish green (per a worldwide recognizable and adhered to standard)? Is it truly a VS2 (again, per the standard mentioned)? Secondly, neither you nor I can verify treatment. How do you really know it is untreated? They are plenty of eBay vendors who sell gems with undisclosed treatment and that do not look as represented but are still in business. Unless all these questions can be answered with facts and not opinions, it is impossible to form any measure of valuation or market price.

here is the link to ad by the way-http://www.ebay.com/itm/170954131361?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

** and here is another one that i got. (this one is EGL CERTIFIED)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251195107373?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="EA21|1355417794|

here is the link to ad by the way-http://www.ebay.com/itm/170954131361?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

** and here is another one that i got. (this one is EGL CERTIFIED)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251195107373?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649[/quote]


worth at least a million bucks...

 

[04diamond<3]

have you seen this??

http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-round-diamond-55ct-fancy-dark-brown-greenish-yellow-round-brilliant-gia-cool-color-r4639

Here's another one, but I'm not sure what your budget is...

http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-122ct-fancy-brownish-yellow-gia-round-brilliant-diamond

 

[EA21]

worth at least a million bucks... [/

come on... it's not that funny
(you may close your mouth now. )

have you seen this??

http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-round-diamond-55ct-fancy-dark-brown-greenish-yellow-round-brilliant-gia-cool-color-r4639

Here's another one, but I'm not sure what your budget is...

http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-122ct-fancy-brownish-yellow-gia-round-brilliant-diamond

now? well,a million bucks i guess.

 

[chrono]

The vendor's picture shows a greenish yellow stone and played it safe with the vs2 / si1 clarity estimate. Again, no proof of anything but his words. I also don't like the 10% restocking fee so you will be out $100 should you decide this stone isn't right for you.

As for the "white" diamond, it is frozen spit quality. It looks yellow from the side which an accurately graded H should not show and the clarity is so poor as to affect the light performance (sparkle). I am unable to find the said EGL memo to verify it it is authentic. In addition, EGL labs are well known to be highly soft on grading so the H I stone is likely to be graded by GIA as L I3. I highly doubt it is EGL USA which is the best of all the EGL labs. If it really has a lab memo, why does it still have a split grading for cour H/I and clarity I1/I2?

 

[EA21]

worst case scenario... i can live with a 100$ less.
i think its normal that they "played it safe" with the 1+- grade. i bet that even GIA and EGL don't give the same grade. (GIA are more Stringent in most cases) so i think it's fair.

If it really has a lab memo, why does it still have a split grading for cour H/I and clarity I1/I2?

ha?? where you see that? it says clearly H color I2 clarity.
"Diamond Type: Natural Earth Mine Diamond
Lot No: 1189-52

Diamond Piece: 1

Diamond Shape: ROUND

Diamond Color: H

Diamond Clarity: I2

Diamond Weight: 0.79 CT

Diamond Treatment: NONE

Diamond Measurements: 5.75X3.63MM"

 

[chrono]

How are you planning to verify the stats on the FCD? Will you send it to GIA to verify colour, clarity and treatment? I doubt many gemmologist know how to check for FCD treatment. It isn't that GIA is stricter, they grade accurately. EGL is almost always grossly off in their estimation. If EGL can be 4 grades off or more, what do you think your chances are that the vendor's estimate will be any better?

The split grading is in the title of the listing, unless you think it is a typo:
"EGL-CERTIFIED" 0.79CT NATURAL ROUND SHAPE LOOSE DIAMOND,,| I2 , H |
HD VIDEO $ NO RESERVE PRICE $ NR $ 100% EARTH MINE

More importantly, where is this supposed EGL memo? It isn't posted and no memo ID number is referenced. How would I know if this is forged or he even has the memo?

 

[EA21]

As for the "white" diamond, it is frozen spit quality. It looks yellow from the side which an accurately graded H should not show and the clarity is so poor as to affect the light performance (sparkle

you keep saying all the time about the green diamond,that "you can't see anything from a photo or video,but when i show you a diamond with a certificate ,now you are saying that the grading is not right, because you see yellow in the video. you see the irony? :/

The split grading is in the title of the listing, unless you think it is a typo:
"EGL-CERTIFIED" 0.79CT NATURAL ROUND SHAPE LOOSE DIAMOND,,| I2 , H |
HD VIDEO $ NO RESERVE PRICE $ NR $ 100% EARTH MINE

i dont see any problem here,sorry. its l2 clarity-H COLOR. check the discription.

More importantly, where is this supposed EGL memo? It isn't posted and no memo ID number is referenced. How would I know if this is forged or he even has the memo?

paypal guaranty... paypal guaranty... i can always get my money back.

 

[chrono]

It is very easy to judge white diamonds but not the case for coloured diamonds. If you know what you are doing, you will already know this. Not only that, it is very well known that an EGL graded H diamond is not a true H so it isn't a surprise to see a tint from the side view. I2 quality is known to not be eye clean. Again, an EGL I2 is not a true I2 so it isn't irony to see such a cloudy diamond. If you look through the recommended PS vendors inventory, their H I2 diamonds are very white and still clear unlike the one you linked to.

Please educate yourself. You can always return the stone but why go through the hassle when anyone can obviously see that the diamond is of extremely poor quality?