Need your advice...Is it worth it to re-cut a stone to an 8*?

[Dancing Fire]

I have a 1.47 J VS2 stone. I paid $5,300 for the stone approx. 6 years ago. I am trying to decide on whether to have it re-cut into an ideal hearts/arrow or an 8*. I will probably lose 20% of the weight. Right now, the stone has a table of 60% and 59.8 depth. It will probably end up to be approx. 1.18 ct. My question is...will it be worth while to pay the extra money to have it cut into an 8*? Thanks.

 

[Mara]

Well one question is...how much is it going to cost to re-cut?




I am not sure what the motive would be for re-cut, if it is to only get better cut quality and you are willing to sacrifice size for it, then yes, do it. If you plan to also keep the stone and wear it for a long time ahead. However, if you plan to upgrade or get rid of the stone later anyway, why bother?




If you can swing it, why not get an entirely new stone and keep this one for a pendant? In the end only you can determine if it's 'worth it' to recut the stone, depending on cost and future usage/purchases.




Good luck!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Unless the stone is an old miner cut it is unlikely you would loose anywhere near that much.

To advise you we need to see a Sarin scan.

From what I have heard 8* are:
1. expensive
2. somewhat like religious zealouts - they will stop at nothing until they achieve an 8* - this means if the cutter misses on 1 facet, which might not be an issue for a normal mortal, and so to uphold their standards they need to recut the stone completely again, then you loose another .05ct.

I prefer to work with the stone in front of me. And there are plenty of other knowledgable and skilled cutters who would do the same.
The difference could be less weight loss and bigger diameter = better looking stone if you could have compared the 8* and the more practical stone.

If however you enjoy the 8* faith, then go with it because the story is bigger than the product

 

[elmo]

----------------
On 4/3/2004 5:00:08 PM vtigger86 wrote:

My question is...will it be worth while to pay the extra money to have it cut into an 8*? Thanks.----------------

My question is...are you wearing it and enjoying it now, or is it sitting in a drawer someplace most of the time? If the latter and you recut it would you wear it and enjoy it more?

 

[Trinity]

I would leave it as is.

But that is what I would do. If you want to recut it, do it.

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 4/3/2004 5:00:08 PM vtigger86 wrote:



will it be worth while to pay the extra money to have it cut into an 8*? ----------------

So... how much is it? One way to decide would be to compare the cost of two ways of getting an ideal cut, J-VS2 round on your finger: either recut this or upgrade. Both ways involve some headache. Are you sure the original seller (or another jeweler, for that matter) would not arrange an upgrade somehow?

Besides, even outside 'ideal' proportions as is, this stone could be quite a sparkler. How about starting by getting a $25 Iscope to see how bad things are to start with... It could be that either the stone needs no improvement after all, or much can be done with a slight retouch. This is the cutter's call, stone in hand, to tell.

How did you end up with the 1.18 prognosis for the recut? A 1.2cts J-VS2 ideal woudl cost just about as much as your stone has and have just 0.5mm less in diameter, btw.

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

It's $1000.00 to get your stone re-cut to an Eightstar.../idealbb/images/smilies/6.gif




With that in mind let's say you lose 20% of the stone. I lost less, but let's put you at 20%..

1.47 x 20% = .294 cts.




With 20 % trimmed off your left with a 1.18 J vs2 stone.




Add that to your original cost of $5300 and your left with $6300.00 after the re-cutting fee.




Comparatively you can get a more competively priced stone in that weight range which has already been cut to super-ideal proportions...There are some cutters which also can achieve the Eightstar look (small star facets & larger upper girdle facets) w/ out the Eightstar price

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 4/4/2004 12:28:35 PM Colored Gemstone Nut wrote:

It's $1000.00 to get your stone re-cut to an Eightstar. Add that to your original cost of $5300 and your left with $6300.00 after the re-cutting fee. Comparatively you can get a more competively priced stone in that weight range which has already been cut to super-ideal proportions
----------------

Yeah... but the total cost of the oppeartion is definitely not the same for the two versions, given that reselling diamonds in not so straightforward.

Anyway, the quote is not all that bad, taking into account what H&A sell for in their branded versions.
Oh well...

 

[Beth]

Josh! You are naughty. I had to agree not to discuss pricing when I went to examine that option. Also the price I got was based on weight and was more than you indicated for a 1 ct...but I can't say anymore than that!!! Hey Josh, please PM me YOUR 8* dealer. lol

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

----------------
On 4/4/2004 1:09:23 PM Beth wrote:





Josh! You are naughty. I had to agree not to discuss pricing when I went to examine that option. Also the price I got was based on weight and was more than you indicated for a 1 ct...but I can't say anymore than that!!! Hey Josh, please PM me YOUR 8* dealer. lol
----------------

Hey Beth:

This is an open forum and there is no hidden agenda here

 

[Mara]

Thanks for giving it to us straight Josh.

What size stone did you have recut?




Yes unfortunately it's not apples to apples for cost on new stone vs recut. The $5300 this person has already spent 6 years back is a sunk cost unless they can resell for same amount, which does not happen. So assuming they can get maybe $3000-3500 back from original $5k (maybe!), then a comparative stone would cost about that $6500 and so they are out of pocket about $3000-3500 and not just the $1k for recutting.




If this is the case and the stone would be worn more often or more lovingly or happily for a long enough time (e.g. at least a year or so...its really a 'relative' number to the consumer) to offset that initial small $1k or similar cost, then it'd be worth it in my opinon. Plus there's also the fun, cool value!

Having an old stone re-cut to an 8* would be a tale to tell, indeed!




I may be incorrect, but I think that WhiteFlash may do re-cuts as well? If you are considering 8* you may want to give WF a ring and see if they can re-cut to ACA proportions. See if you can expand your options. Or possibly you have a local 8* which would handle, possibly you feel more comfortable working locally.




Whatever the outcome, let us know!

 

[Stephan]

Yes, Mara.
It would be worth it.
I have a 2ct that I never wear, perhaps I will ask Paul to recut it.
Such a diamond with a huge table, you know...
My only problem is that the setting was so expensive, so I still hesitate.

 

[dunndeal]

If I may chime in! My humble opinion is don't do it! You don't want to invest $6300 in a diamond that may only end up worth $4500.00. Don't forget that after the re-cut you will need to certify it again that is always a little bit of a gamble. You might be surprised how quickly someone might be willing to snap up a 1.47ct with good proportions, especially if its GIA or AGS certified. It's quite a rare size that commands a premium. This will give you chance to start with a clean slate.

The best option, if its fits withing your budget, is to make a pendant for your original stone and get a H&A super ideal for your ring. My 2 cents

 

[Dancing Fire]

I came up with 1.18 ct assuming that I will lose 20% of the weight max. The stone has no crown height at all and has a 60% table.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

If you are serious about this please get a Sarin and post / email me [email protected]

60% table - we will get you recut for less than 10% and likely 3% weight loss and very likely no change in diameter.

Also re the 8* - read the spolit by Ideal-scope thread

 

[Spartan]

----------------
On 4/4/2004 12:28:35 PM Colored Gemstone Nut wrote:


It's $1000.00 to get your stone re-cut to an Eightstar.../idealbb/images/smilies/6.gif



----------------

$1000! Really? I was told they charged $2000 per carat with a 1 carat min for recuts.

Frankly, I'm kind of sick of Eightstar's secrecy regarding pricing. It doesn't really matter though, I'm not *privileged* enough to have an Eightstar dealer in my state.

There's no way I'm driving to OH just to get pricing

.

 

[diamond island]

i was also quoted $2000-$2500 per carat weight of initial weight, not the end product. One carat minimum. I think this may vary between dealers.

 

[oldminer]

It may be worthwhile for an owner of a diamond to have it re-cut to better performance specs provided it makes a meaningful visual difference considering the weight loss and the cost of cutting that is charged.

The diamond described sounds like a pretty normal cut stone that might look somewhat improved if recut to better specs, but I think it would be foolish not to investigate the Garry Holloway offer to seek out alternate re-cut methods and reduced weight loss provided the light performance can be greatly increased for less money and less weight loss. I am certain this is very possible to do, so I would suggest taking the time to investigate before deciding how to proceed.

It would be most unusual to recut a diamond to such specific cut standards as an 8* unless there was some special need or reason. I appreciate the care and skill that goes into the cutting process of these superb stones, but I don''t think the value added proposition works to your advantage. The light performance is not that superior to less carefull cut stones, but the cost differential seems greater than the benefits. Of course, this is a personal choice and you must make it yourself. Just do the investigating before you make an impulsive choice on how to proceed.

 

[strmrdr]

Id go thru wink at www.winkjones.com or Gary
@ www.diamondexpert.com
and have Paul-Antwerp (pricescope user name) @ www.infinitydiamonds.be recut it.
Last I heard prices were:
ideal cut:
$300ct + shipping + new cert.
super-ideal cut venus by infinity
$800ct + shipping + new cert.

or
Have Brian @ www.whiteflash.com quote you a recut to aca standards.

Cost on a case by case bases.

If having the 8* name floats your boat then go that route but your paying a lot for that name.

 

[perry]

If you want an 8*, then recutting your diamond is probably the cheepest way for you to achieve that. Period. Also, nothing else will satisfy you if what you want is an 8*

If on the other hand, all you want is a great looking diamond - there are cheaper ways to get there.

I wish you the best on your quest, and may you achieve your dreams on this - because in the end it is what you want that matters here. Not what everyone else would do.

Perry

 

[Dancing Fire]

heres the story . ....(1.47 ct before) 1.15 ct after recut, lost 22% of its weight

Paul of infinity diamond did the recut and he brought a dead diamond back to life now it has a lot of tiny sparkles from edge to edge. i would sacrafice the weight for a ideal cut H&A any day, but the wife perfers the bigger size. i purchased the stone about six years ago as a I VS stone with no cert.this was an ugly 60/60 stone. well at least i didn't get rip off(on the color & clarity) by the vendor. but i think they(AGS) were a little tough on the clarity grade.

I VS 2. (HCA 1.0,AGA 1A cut)1.15 ct AGS certified ideal 0 cut


Measurements: 6.80 x 6.82 x 4.14
Crown angle: 34.1 height: 14.9
PAV angle: 40.8 depth: 42.9
Table: 56%
total depth: 60.9
girdle: 1.2-1.5%
Remember; it's harder to find a "MIND CLEAN" stone then a eye clean stone.....AKA vtigger86

 

[strmrdr]

kewl congrates :}
You left the finished weight out lol

 

[diamond island]

Yes, what was the final weight and also how much did it cost to recut? Also, it started as a J color in the initial thread, is it now an I??? Or is this a different stone from the initial stone?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Great news

For the benefit of others considering this idea - and following on from Daves comments - I take the least loss more commercial approach.

If you send a diamond to a ''band'' name cutter - they must produce a stone that fits their brand standard. This will usually mean a lot bigger weight loss - but maybe a higher value beacuse you stone is now a ''brand rock''.

e.g. almost 80% of recuts of existing round brilliants that i supervise have either the pavilion OR the crown only recut. I select the optimum combination for the stone.

e.g. say the stone has a 60% table and 36 crown angle with 42 degree pavilion - I would only recut the pavilion to say 40.5 degree - and the weight loss might be 1.03ct to 1.00ct (3%).

So you need to decide which way you should go. Manitain weight - or go for a lighter brand name.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 12/7/2004 9:31:58 PM
Author: strmrdr
kewl congrates :}
You left the finished weight out lol

strmrdr
being the expert that you are i figure you would be able to calculate the weight by using the measurements.

1.15 ct ,lost .32 ct.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 12/7/2004 9:40:14 PM
Author: diamond island
Yes, what was the final weight and also how much did it cost to recut? Also, it started as a J color in the initial thread, is it now an I??? Or is this a different stone from the initial stone?

diamond island
its the same stone ,before the recut an appraiser call it a J vs1 . after the recut AGS certified it I vs2. ...as the cost for a recut ,strmrdr posted the price above.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 12/7/2004 10:12:55 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Great news

For the benefit of others considering this idea - and following on from Daves comments - I take the least loss more commercial approach.

If you send a diamond to a ''band'' name cutter - they must produce a stone that fits their brand standard. This will usually mean a lot bigger weight loss - but maybe a higher value beacuse you stone is now a ''brand rock''.

e.g. almost 80% of recuts of existing round brilliants that i supervise have either the pavilion OR the crown only recut. I select the optimum combination for the stone.

e.g. say the stone has a 60% table and 36 crown angle with 42 degree pavilion - I would only recut the pavilion to say 40.5 degree - and the weight loss might be 1.03ct to 1.00ct (3%).

So you need to decide which way you should go. Manitain weight - or go for a lighter brand name.

cut nut

so...with the 60% table,36 crown angle,40.5 pav how would this stone look under the ideal scope ? is it a FIC ?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Yup it would be an FIC, and yup it would look great through an ideal-scope.

i know that Paul is wrestling with the idea of producing diamonds that will rate zero on the new AGS 0 scale.

This idea I have presented would likely not because the table would be too big,

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 12/8/2004 12:34:31 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Yup it would be an FIC, and yup it would look great through an ideal-scope.

i know that Paul is wrestling with the idea of producing diamonds that will rate zero on the new AGS 0 scale.

This idea I have presented would likely not because the table would be too big,

cut nut
would a smaller table with this proportion get more fire ? if so what table % ?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Yes I guess there would be a very slight reduction in light return and a very slight increase in fire as the table gets smaller.
Try playing here http://www.cutstudy.com/cut/english/comp/scint1.htm - set the crwon and pavilion angles and then change the table size to 3 degree hits and watch the affect ass you shrink the table and concentrate the fire