Newbie's experience buying from "closer to source" sellers

[icy_jade]

Prices have definitely gone up, but I’ve also seen some “PS recommended” vendors quote pretty ridiculous prices over the pandemic. So…

- bear in mind that it’s “PS recommended” by a few folks, not all, and everyone’s price tolerance and service expectations differs. So maybe what someone loves isn’t what you will be ok with. Also some vendors that have gotten popular seem to have raised their prices quite a bit. Which I can understand (supply/demand etc) but personally I won’t buy from them.
- if you can, then shop in person (instead of online), especially if you can see multiple stones in person and compare. I must have seen thousands of stones in person by now and the ratio of stones I like vs stones I see is pretty low so I figure it applies to online stones too and returns can be a pain and you can’t really compare anyway so shop in person unless you really have no choice. If you are in Asia, you can definitely shop in person.
- trust your own eye! I cannot emphasize enough how difficult it is to take accurate photos and the most stunning gem you see in person could look like crap in photos. Don’t even mention whether the phone or monitor used to display the picture is even color accurate in the first place. So if you love the color of the stone in person, then trust yourself. After all you are the one wearing it and not the rest of us. It can be hard to capture glow or sheen or green or whatever optical effect the stone has so trust your own eye. Like maybe a stone looks yellowish-green in PS but is actually green in real life. Or pinkish-Red in photos but red in real life. It happens.
- only buy the stones that makes your heart palpitate/skip several bits. If it’s just “not bad” or quite pretty or good value then skip. Cos the setting cost is expensive anyway, so no point saving a few hundreds and then spend thousands on settings.
- if you are in Asia, then set your stones in Asia. So much cheaper. We are talking thousands per item and the savings adds up when your collection grows.

 

[Cerulean]

Are you new to gemstone buying? I’ve only been at this for about 7 years and when I was new, I said exactly the above and buyers who had been buyers for 50+ years told me they said the same thing years ago

Scarcity for top quality has been “real” since the beginning of time.

Funnily enough I now look at the same sellers I looked at those 7 years ago, who told me and made me feel if I didn’t buy something RIGHT NOW (normal sales tactic - no extra pressure other then that) that they don’t know when next that stone would be available - still selling the same EXTREMELY RARE limited supply, “I only have one set of rough from my supplier” stones… still available all these years later. At similar prices mine you.

It makes me laugh when people so clearly new to gemstone buying spout spinels are “now” going up in price when @TL said that about 20 years ago if you just search the forum!! Like I said - it’s a mugs game and we’re all happy mugs.

Lol sure I’m new in the sense that it’s only been a few years

I’m not unfamiliar with tactics to imply scarcity as a marketing ploy because I used to work in marketing - companies will deliberately withhold the stock of products to urge customers to BUY NOW, use time-based sales, etc. it’s marketing 101

So if your implication is that I’m a silly, naive, brand-new-to-gemstone-shopping contributor, I’d like to say I’m really not

The context of the conversation was around the difficulty of sourcing due to the pandemic, and i wasn’t shopping, I was conversing. There was therefore no benefit to the person I was talking to push me into thinking “now or never” bc my wallet was firmly closed and it was a friendly conversation

and I sure would like a tradesperson to chime in as that doesn’t seem to be unique

 

[Cerulean]

I just want to point out again that I was never expecting the same price to start with.

What I was not expecting however, was a claim of 50% and then 100% increase in a matter of months, and then a further claim that it will be even more.

I think it's also clear that I wasn't expecting pre-pandemic prices either, hence my reference to threads at the beginning of 2021.

Sure, prices for gemstones were still rising then, but unless it was driven by a sudden surge in popularity like spinel or tourmaline, I find 100% price jumps of something that had already risen dramatically and wasn't pennies to begin with extremely sus.

Anytime someone without retail store overheads tries to justify retail store pricing, it's also sus to me.

In fact, different arguments can be made - fewer lockdowns means miners and everyone else in the supply chain can go back to work right? But no, maybe the pandemic made a lot of workers reassess their career paths, there are order backlogs, etc.

So in 2021 at least, to take a one-sided view that this is definitely going to be meme stock territory is quite generous.

I think it's acknowledged all around that the prices are basically volatile. I'm not a trader but have friends who are (clarification: in securities firms, not gems firms) and... if you know what you're doing, you make money in a volatile market.

So have prices been driven up by demand and supply factors? Yes.

Could vendors also be taking advantage of that to price gouge to the extreme? Also possible. As many have pointed out - this is not a transparent market. For deliberate reasons, because margins are better that way.

Finally, I get the calls to reveal who the vendor is, but I will not because this topic is a tinderbox, and I suspect the vendor may already know by now. There's no need to make it personal.

One more thing to add - if it's truly the case that those are realistic prices, no vendor should need to worry. After all, realistic prices are supposed to be the equilibria that clears markets. No need to rush to defend themselves.

OTOH, my point of making this thread in the first place is to point out that I don't think everyone is getting realistic price quotes

@LD’s comment I think still sums it up

“If you ask a vendor for a bog standard "how much per carat would a XXXX gem be" the ballpark answer will vary considerably and will depend (a) if they have a gem in stock or (b) if they can source it and (c) how difficult it will be to source. So the price may well shoot up as demand/supplies are affected.”

I understand that not everyone gets fair prices. Due to the frustrating lack of pricing transparency on IG, that is the seller’s prerogative - to control pricing.

They CAN give special pricing to repeat customers, they CAN give “taxes” to buyers that are more frustrating to deal with…they can do whatever they want and like with most things in life, there are always bad actors who will take advantage and those who will be fair or even use metrics in their pricing that are rather objective. I do wish generally that everyone posted pricing - for me the main nuisance is having to inquire only to find out that something isn’t even in the ballpark of my budget - why waste everyone’s time!?

But given that the lack of transparency is at the nexus of the lodged complaint, I do think it’s curious that the vendor wasn’t shared. It’s not slanderous - it’s just acting in a way the circumvents the pattern of obscurity and gives consumers on this forum more power.

And @LilAlex I totally agree with your comments. What’s alluring about these overseas vendors at least as an American is that the prices ARE much lower in many cases, but what I lose is protection so it depends on one’s risk appetite. So in a sense, you are always getting what you pay for.

In hindsight I want to clarify my “killer” deal on my particular sapphire. It was a killer price to me compared to western sources (unheated gems of that size and quality were easily 2-3x the price, none in stock, or vendors were simply not shipping at all) and I got that price because there was another person trying to buy the same gem, and lowballed, and I paid “asking” instead of trying to negotiate bc I thought it was fair. The timing was perfect on my purchase - there were lockdowns in Sri Lanka, therefore no other income for the seller coming in. So, I got my “killer” deal, and those conditions or conditions that would produce a similar result, I assume will not be repeated anytime soon because of the other fallout issues due to the pandemic - but who knows, I’m just a n00b who’s only been buying gems for the last 2ish years (or gosh will it be 3 soon?!) and I mean that in earnest!

 

[lilmosun]

At the start of the PS recommended vendor list, it states:

These are the list of vendors that some people have had a good experience with. Your experience may not be the same. Please search the vendor in this forum for reviews. If you open up a review, put the vendor name in the title so others can easily search for and retrieve your review.

Experiences may vary -and- different folks have different criteria....and reasons for making the list may differ. To me, the list is a good starting point for newcomers and no more than that. But ymmv. There have been vendors on the list (or recommended on PS threads) that I have tried and won't personally do business with again. Not that I had a bad/unethical experience so much as their approach didn't work for me and I didn't want to invest in the relationship (more later on that)

I do agree that if the OP has a real issue with a vendor's pricing being unethical and wants to post about it, it would be nice to know who the vendor is and specifics so we can each make an informed opinion.

Regarding pricing - yes, market conditions are such that prices have gone out of control. It's not just the pandemic and supply chain but also government corruption/unrest. I have a local jeweler who has told me point blank that she doesn't want to sell me anything right now. Not that she can't use the business or thinks prices are going down but because with the pandemic, her vendors are adding (hopefully temporary) surcharges adding to market increases.

Keep in mind, PSers like to post their "deals" which are not typically reflective of market pricing.

Finally, independent vendors can have wildly different ways of pricing and it takes time to figure that out. It's not just "instagram" or "close to source" sellers. While @fredflintstone may have one fixed price for new and one fixed price for existing customers, that isn't always the case:

• I have vendors who mark things at expected sell price and others who have everything marked at outrageous retail prices so they can quote you a "good deal".
• I have vendors who have firm in the prices they quote and I have vendors who expect everyone to negotiate from there.
• I have vendors who base their prices on what they paid for the item at the time and others who base their prices on current market value.
• I have a local vendor who literally makes up the price at the moment..he will quote me prices all over the place on different visits for the same piece.
• I have some vendors for whom I am a regular customer that are happy to make one or two hundred dollars on my purchase.
• I have a couple of vendors who I now consider close personal friends. They've taken me to meet their sources letting me add my purchases to their orders to receive their bulk discounts and give me added personal discounts when buying from them. Like @yssie, I make a point of not taking advantage. I don't approach/buy from their sources on my own and respect (and tell them) they have a business to run which is separate from our friendship insisting they make a profit when selling to me.

In large part, buying gems and jewelry is still a relationship business. That takes time and not something newbies have out of the gate -or- those making a one-off purchase. The important thing is you need to do your own research on prices (and other factors) to make your own informed purchase. And if you are looking to make repeated purchases, rather than always chasing the best deal, it can be worthwhile to build relationships with vendors who you are happy doing business with.

For me, the temptation to try a new vendor (especially those who don't post prices) is low unless is something I must have and can't get at a reasonable price elsewhere. While I probably miss out on some great buys, I probably save just much by not taking the risks/time associated with dealing with a new vendor. There are other costs (time, risk, expectations, etc) to factor on top of price. So I prefer to invest in independent vendors who have already provided exceptional service to me.

 

[Cerulean]

At the start of the PS recommended vendor list, it states:

These are the list of vendors that some people have had a good experience with. Your experience may not be the same. Please search the vendor in this forum for reviews. If you open up a review, put the vendor name in the title so others can easily search for and retrieve your review.

Experiences may vary -and- different folks have different criteria....and reasons for making the list may differ. To me, the list is a good starting point for newcomers and no more than that. But ymmv. There have been vendors on the list (or recommended on PS threads) that I have tried and won't personally do business with again. Not that I had a bad/unethical experience so much as their approach didn't work for me and I didn't want to invest in the relationship (more later on that)

I do agree that if the OP has a real issue with a vendor's pricing being unethical and wants to post about it, it would be nice to know who the vendor is and specifics so we can each make an informed opinion.

Regarding pricing - yes, market conditions are such that prices have gone out of control. It's not just the pandemic and supply chain but also government corruption/unrest. I have a local jeweler who has told me point blank that she doesn't want to sell me anything right now. Not that she can't use the business or thinks prices are going down but because with the pandemic, her vendors are adding (hopefully temporary) surcharges adding to market increases.

Keep in mind, PSers like to post their "deals" which are not typically reflective of market pricing.

Finally, independent vendors can have wildly different ways of pricing and it takes time to figure that out. It's not just "instagram" or "close to source" sellers. While @fredflintstone may have one fixed price for new and one fixed price for existing customers, that isn't always the case:

• I have vendors who mark things at expected sell price and others who have everything marked at outrageous retail prices so they can quote you a "good deal".
• I have vendors who have firm in the prices they quote and I have vendors who expect everyone to negotiate from there.
• I have vendors who base their prices on what they paid for the item at the time and others who base their prices on current market value.
• I have a local vendor who literally makes up the price at the moment..he will quote me prices all over the place on different pieces for the same piece.
• I have some vendors for whom I am a regular customer that are happy to make one or two hundred dollars on my purchase.
• I have a couple of vendors who I now consider close personal friends. They've taken me to meet their sources letting me add my purchases to their orders to receive their bulk discounts and give me added personal discounts when buying from them. Like @yssie, I make a point of not taking advantage. I don't approach/buy from their sources on my own and respect (and tell them) they have a business to run which is separate from our friendship insisting they make a profit when selling to me.

In large part, buying gems and jewelry is still a relationship business. That takes time and not something newbies have out of the gate -or- those making a one-off purchase. The important thing is you need to do your own research on prices (and other factors) to make your own informed purchase. And if you are looking to make repeated purchases, rather than always chasing the best deal, it can be worthwhile to build relationships with vendors who you are happy doing business with.

For me, the temptation to try a new vendor (especially those who don't post prices) is low unless is something I must have and can't get at a reasonable price elsewhere. While I probably miss out on some great buys, I probably save just much by not taking the risks associated with dealing with a new vendor. There are other costs (time, risk, expectations, etc) to factor on top of price. So I prefer to invest in independent vendors who have already provided exceptional service to me.

Great and informative post! Thanks for sharing all of this. It seems to summarize my anecdotal experiences but obviously with much more depth of experience. Appreciate your insights a lot

 

[Bojambles]

“If you ask a vendor for a bog standard "how much per carat would a XXXX gem be" the ballpark answer will vary considerably and will depend (a) if they have a gem in stock or (b) if they can source it and (c) how difficult it will be to source. So the price may well shoot up as demand/supplies are affected.”

(editing the exact timeline for clarity upon checking)

I agree but as I've replied before, these prices (at least the first 2 times) were for very specific stones. I sent the listings to the vendor to ask for quotes.

The 3rd time I asked, the vendor had listings for the same type of stone again, hence I just repeated my question without bothering to send the listing this time.

The Mar 2021 quote was for a specific stone here (not given to me)
The Oct 2021 quote could have been for a general ballpark; I was asking a few questions and I also asked for a few quotes, it's fairly messy. However, the vendor did not correct my statement on their past prices and rises.
The Dec 2021 quote was for specific stones again

I do agree that if the OP has a real issue with a vendor's pricing being unethical and wants to post about it, it would be nice to know who the vendor is and specifics so we can each make an informed opinion.

I understand that you and everyone asking this question is well-intentioned. However:

1. I don't know for sure that this vendor's pricing is unethical, I simply find it extremely suspicious and exercised my right not to buy. This is a consumer forum and I thought it was a fair warning.

I explained a scenario and there are a lot of vendors recommended here:
- I didn't even mention the country the vendor is from or whether they are high end or low end or who has bought from them before.
- I didn't even give the specifics of the stone that I had been asking for quotes for, which for avoidance of doubt, I don't think I have extensively posted on PS about.

I don't think any vendor would feel singled out or feel like they could be identified based on private price quotes for an unknown item. If any vendor feels like they have a problem with that, they obviously have something to defend.

I don't have any PS or gem industry friends irl either, so it's not like I'm running around in private chat groups bad mouthing a vendor.

2. Even if I were to find out that this vendor is quoting me some 50% more than someone else, it seems that plenty of people here could find that ethical. The only thing I would be doing is to get attacked.

I have repeatedly pointed out the type of stone I had been enquiring about, and then I pointed out the meteoric percentage and absolute price increases.

I'm still seeing replies that are focused on how prices are rising in general (I've 100% agreed from the start), and how I must be expecting the same prices as "regulars" (I never was, or does a trade member want to claim that it's standard practice that regulars often get quoted 50% lower?)

3. As PS veterans have pointed out, this is a free market and there are thousands of buyers these sellers cater to. They can charge as high as they like if there are willing buyers

IMO, if this thread is blowing up in vendor circles and your vendor is freaking out over this, it should be enough for you to draw your own conclusions

 

[Bojambles]

I'm just going to summarize some things that have been repeated here:

1. This is a crazy market / market on an upward swing / we don't know the prices for sure:

100% agreed and hence why I'm still refusing to name the vendor or provide more details on them.

What I have done is give as broad a context as possible and stated my opinion that I find such price increases extremely dubious. I call BS on the level of price increases, you could think it perfectly acceptable. Your opinion and your money!

As I'm clearly making it difficult even for PS veterans to id the vendor, I don't think I'm doing harm to either PS consumers or vendors with my post.

If I were a newbie, I would like to know that this possibility exists and to see a real example of how fast prices can supposedly increase. If you disagree, you can ask the mods to review taking this post down.

I'm clearly not getting anything out of this as I will not name the vendor and I doubt a PS post complaining about prices is going to move gem market prices.

2. I shouldn't be expecting the same price as regulars / pre pandemic:

100% agreed and hence pointing out the timeline and the degree of the increase. If you think prices in 2021 are still like in point #1, then my reply is as in #1.

I don't expect the same price as regulars and I'm not posting about a scenario involving a few hundred dollars. It's a couple thousand dollars. Maybe a 5 figure change in a year's more time, if you look at the vendor's claims (and they might actually be right, for all I know)

3. I get that people want to defend their favourite vendors or friends but I have not named a vendor at all. If they want to dox themselves, their problem.

If someone or a vendor has problems that potential customers may think their prices are not reasonable, then who are you really posting for? For the vendors to make an outsized profit, or for the consumers using this forum?

As has been pointed out, we hardly matter to the gem market, and price increases are supposedly driven by the insane, insatiable demand and short supply.

Summary: stones will sell for what they're worth. No need to sweat if your prices are truly reflective of market conditions

 

[lilmosun]

1. I don't know for sure that this vendor's pricing is unethical, I simply find it extremely suspicious and exercised my right not to buy. This is a consumer forum and I thought it was a fair warning.

I understand that you are trying to give a heads up about a situation you encountered without calling out a specific vendor who may or may not have done something dubious. But unfortunately, without details it's difficult to understand what you are warning against - don't take prices quoted at face value? Ok, got it and I think it led to some good discussions on pricing variations.

The vendor thread tries to make clear that ymmv - that goes in terms of pricing, experience or product satisfaction. That needs to be taken into consideration with dealing with recommendations most anywhere. For example, on Amazon, I don't just base my decision on overall rating but also the specifics of why someone was happy or unhappy because they may or may not apply to me.

I think you are are misinterpreting replies that trying to offer possible explanations as being defensive of personal vendor choices, saying that what the vendor did was okay or refuting your claim. I don't think that is anyone's intent - at least not mine.

 

[minousbijoux]

I think you are are misinterpreting replies that trying to offer possible explanations as being defensive of personal vendor choices, saying that what the vendor did was okay or refuting your claim. I don't think that is anyone's intent - at least not mine.

Yes, it seems as if you may be misconstruing the intent of the replies. I also do not get the sense that anyone is arguing with you, just commenting on the gem market and the gem vendor practices they've encountered given their seasoned/experienced gem and jewelry buying histories.

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

@Cerulean your sapphire comment reminds me of my jade vendor who told me to stop wearing one of my jade bangles because if I break it, I won't be replacing it for the same price!!!

Yes exactly! He expressed it could be double bc his prices have gone up so much and scarcity is REAL for top quality!

I got a story to share too! When I was looking for wedding jewelry, I went to my trusted jeweler who I've been going to for years. I found a gorgeous pearl necklace in one of his cases and asked him to price out a matching bracelet for me. He checked the price of the necklace and almost had a heart attack, I swear. Apparently he hadn't check the pricing for a while and the cost of similar-quality pearls had gone up by 50-75% since. He still honored the listed price though. Yay for me!

Note: yes, we looked over current comps, and he's had 5-star ratings for years bc of his honesty and customer service. So I trust him (well, as much as one can when in a business relationship).

 

[Bojambles]

But unfortunately, without details it's difficult to understand what you are warning against

Unfortunately I'm pretty long winded, fully admit to this and apologies in advance again

However I think my message is pretty clear from the first post. I'm writing on a possibility that I suspect, and it also led to:

I think it led to some good discussions on pricing variations

I think everyone got very curious who the vendor in the example is, but this has a macro goal compared to the purpose of the vendor thread which I believe is to review specific vendors.

The vendor thread tries to make clear that ymmv - that goes in terms of pricing, experience or product satisfaction.

Actually the pricing experience is the problem. No one here actually knows what prices "should" really be, given the "crazy" market right? We've all admitted to that.

The only way you'll know what the pricing experience is, is if you can make a guess on the comparison between what you're quoted and what someone else got.

Again, not expecting regulars' prices. But I would want to know if it is possible that I'm being quoted significantly more than regulars (and what's reasonable or not, frankly, is for the non-regulars to decide for themselves and part with their money, not the regulars).

Likewise for prices increases and what is seller cost past through / real increased demand vs opportunistic increases. It's not for the seller to decide that "this is realistic" - they set their prices and if it's too high, they won't clear.

Because I do have a problem with those things. Maybe some people think this is fine, some people don't care, or some people think this is common sense

But just because this thread on a public forum isn't useful for someone, it doesn't mean it's not useful for everyone.

IMO there is zero harm and instead potential benefit to a potential consumer. And that's why I wrote about my experience.

***

Also unrelated and not specific to you, but these kind of sellers literally have to size up buyers for a living, do you really think that they aren't making a guess on you and your buying power, potential network referral etc when they interact with you?

 

[theredspinel]

Unfortunately I'm pretty long winded, fully admit to this and apologies in advance again

However I think my message is pretty clear from the first post. I'm writing on a possibility that I suspect, and it also led to:



I think everyone got very curious who the vendor in the example is, but this has a macro goal compared to the purpose of the vendor thread which I believe is to review specific vendors.



Actually the pricing experience is the problem. No one here actually knows what prices "should" really be, given the "crazy" market right? We've all admitted to that.

The only way you'll know what the pricing experience is, is if you can make a guess on the comparison between what you're quoted and what someone else got.

Again, not expecting regulars' prices. But I would want to know if it is possible that I'm being quoted significantly more than regulars (and what's reasonable or not, frankly, is for the non-regulars to decide for themselves and part with their money, not the regulars).

Likewise for prices increases and what is seller cost past through / real increased demand vs opportunistic increases. It's not for the seller to decide that "this is realistic" - they set their prices and if it's too high, they won't clear.

Because I do have a problem with those things. Maybe some people think this is fine, some people don't care, or some people think this is common sense

But just because this thread on a public forum isn't useful for someone, it doesn't mean it's not useful for everyone.

IMO there is zero harm and instead potential benefit to a potential consumer. And that's why I wrote about my experience.

***

Also unrelated and not specific to you, but these kind of sellers literally have to size up buyers for a living, do you really think that they aren't making a guess on you and your buying power, potential network referral etc when they interact with you?

I’m very confused because whilst I agree with you generally on the issue of SOME (probably many) vendors will randomly increase prices to just take advantage and get as much profit as possible - of course they can and do, humans have done this since the beginning of time so why would gemstone sellers not act out this greedy side of being human??

I’m confused over what you’re seeing (that really isn’t there) regarding your defensiveness over why you started this thread (no one asked) and your justifications for starting this thread (again no one’s expressed a problem with this thread, we’re all having an interesting discussion) and no one said it’s harmful?

Literally no one has said any of the stuff you’ve mentioned in the last few posts (which vendor blew up)?!!

ETA: you seem to think PriceScope is one being, it’s really not. ‘PS recommended’ to new people usually means maybe 5 users of PriceScope wrote about x vendor. Out of however many *thousands* spread across the world, which make up the PS forum community. There is no PS regular pricing except for literally 1 or 2 users here with *1* or 2 vendors….. again out of thousands.

Remember PS (and the world) is bigger then just the usual names popping up often on PS, and their buying experience is but one buying experience out of *thousands*. Perspective.

 

[fredflintstone]

I personally never raised my prices after the initial price, I did think about it though. But...I don't blame vendors for raising the price on their stones and there is a good reason for it. It is because the cost to replace inventory of fine gems always goes up. This has been a practice since the first gemstone sale and will be until the last gemstone sale.

Not every dealer buys at the same price. It depends if they are just buying single stones a few at a time or large parcels. Not every gemstone dealer has a huge budget to buy $500,000, $50,000, or even $5,000 worth of stones at a time and the more you buy the better the price, but that is not within every dealers reach.

Of course, you are still going to have certain vendors ask very high prices. Some people think if it is too cheap, it is too good to be true, and that could go either way in reality. Many buyrs out there think this way. Also, a gemstone dealer’s customer base can affect prices. The more popular they are, many times the more money they will ask, and people will pay it.

The point being, a dealer can ask any amount of money for a gemstone he or she has for sale, that does not mean it will sale at that price though, or at all.

 

[Bojambles]

it’s just acting in a way the circumvents the pattern of obscurity and gives consumers on this forum more power.

This is a consumer forum - I think we're expected to be fair to vendors by not slandering them. However I fail to see how empowering consumers is against the purpose of this forum.

As in the longer posts I made -> if a stone is selling for what it should in these market condition, it will clear.

If my thread is going to have an effect on a seller's bottomline, then something is up

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

The only way you'll know what the pricing experience is, is if you can make a guess on the comparison between what you're quoted and what someone else got.

Again, not expecting regulars' prices. But I would want to know if it is possible that I'm being quoted significantly more than regulars (and what's reasonable or not, frankly, is for the non-regulars to decide for themselves and part with their money, not the regulars).

OP, did you ever actually get a quote for the same exact stone as a "regular"? Because otherwise, I don't really understand what your point is then. Several posters have tried to explain more benign reasons why prices quoted to you may have gone up exponentially with a few short months.

ETA: Or why one sapphire of the same size, treatment level, etc. may still have a wildly different "value" than another.

I don't know if you can make the claims that you do unless you were able to compare apples to apples.

 

[theredspinel]

@Bojambles

Of course, you are still going to have certain vendors ask very high prices. Some people think if it is too cheap, it is too good to be true, and that could go either way in reality.

And that faction of society, I believe makes up a large majority of PS forum members.

 

[Bojambles]

Literally no one has said any of the stuff you’ve mentioned in the last few posts (which vendor blew up)?!

I said "IMO if..." because I don't know anything about vendor circles but this thread is getting a lot of activity. If it's not clear enough that it's a hypothetical situation, I hope it is now.

of course they can and do, humans have done this since the beginning of time so why would gemstone sellers not act out this greedy side of being human??

and what's wrong with pointing out that I think this might be currently happening with some vendors?

As for defensiveness, maybe we are currently on different wavelengths and not understanding each other, but you ask me what I'm warning against and then ask why I'm being defensive and justifying why I started this thread?

I'm not following

lilmosun said:
But unfortunately, without details it's difficult to understand what you are warning against

What I was warning against is pretty clear in the bolded font that I posted and then got asked why (by another person, not you) I was being defensive and misconstruing responses

 

[theredspinel]

OP, did you ever actually get a quote for the same exact stone as a "regular"? Because otherwise, I don't really understand what your point is then. Several posters have tried to explain more benign reasons why prices quoted to you may have gone up exponentially with a few short months. I don't know if you can make the claims that you do unless you were able to compare apples to apples.

Think the point of the thread was to gauge if it was “fair” for “regulars” to get quoted one price and newbies get quoted a heck of a lot more.

It’s just wilful ignorance to try to believe the above doesn’t take place, when confirmation has come from horses mouths so to speak! And yep, I’ll add myself to that, I’ve most assuredly been quoted prices cheaper after becoming a regular customer then the sticker price.

Do I think it’s because I have a special link with the vendor? No. Because I am special? No. Because I have the potential to spend a lot of money? No. Because I am from PS? Heck no. Because I buy often and it’s a good business model? Well duh.

 

[fredflintstone]

I'm still seeing replies that are focused on how prices are rising in general (I've 100% agreed from the start), and how I must be expecting the same prices as "regulars" (I never was, or does a trade member want to claim that it's standard practice that regulars often get quoted 50% lower?)

Truth be known, most (most I say) dealers would only break even offering another customer a 50% discount. None of my dealer friends could afford to do that.

 

[Bojambles]

Yes, it seems as if you may be misconstruing the intent of the replies. I also do not get the sense that anyone is arguing with you, just commenting on the gem market and the gem vendor practices they've encountered given their seasoned/experienced gem and jewelry buying histories.

Not all posters are doing so, but some other posters are?

 

[theredspinel]

I said "IMO if..." because I don't know anything about vendor circles but this thread is getting a lot of activity. If it's not clear enough that it's a hypothetical situation, I hope it is now.



and what's wrong with pointing out that I think this might be currently happening with some vendors?

As for defensiveness, maybe we are currently on different wavelengths and not understanding each other, but you ask me what I'm warning against and then ask why I'm being defensive and justifying why I started this thread?

I'm not following



What I was warning against is pretty clear in the bolded font that I posted and then got asked why (by another person, not you) I was being defensive and misconstruing responses

I think you’re getting a bit overwhelmed with the responses! I never asked why you started this thread. In fact I sorta just explained to someone else why you did

It’s getting a lot of traffic because there’s things to actually talk about in this thread other then “omg it’s so perfect, a billion more pics pls”. Only so often you can repeat phrases to that effect.

 

[theredspinel]

Not all posters are doing so, but some other posters are?

I counted 12 different poster responses in this thread (before I gave up) and within those 12 different users only 2 users asked you to either name the vendor or enquired to the validity of this thread. Said it before will say it again - perspective.

 

[theredspinel]

Truth be known, most (most I say) dealers would only break even offering another customer a 50% discount. None of my dealer friends could afford to do that.

This really depends on the geographical location too, in many places the markup is 100% all the while fully expecting bartering and walking away with 50% profit.

 

[Bojambles]

I think you’re getting a bit overwhelmed with the responses! I never asked why you started this thread. In fact I sorta just explained to someone else why you did

It’s getting a lot of traffic because there’s things to actually talk about in this thread other then “omg it’s so perfect, a billion more pics pls”. Only so often you can repeat phrases to that effect.

Thank you for explaining

I think there are multiple conversations running through the thread and there were crossed wires

 

[Bojambles]

I counted 12 different poster responses in this thread (before I gave up) and within those 12 different users only 2 users asked you to either name the vendor or enquired to the validity of this thread. Said it before will say it again - perspective.

Not about vendors... but nevermind. I don't think this will lead to anymore clarity or any useful content

 

[Cerulean]

This is a consumer forum - I think we're expected to be fair to vendors by not slandering them. However I fail to see how empowering consumers is against the purpose of this forum.

As in the longer posts I made -> if a stone is selling for what it should in these market condition, it will clear.

If my thread is going to have an effect on a seller's bottomline, then something is up

Your comment is misconstruing what I am saying.

The point IS to empower consumers with information and pricing transparency, which you seem disinterested in participating in bc you are perceiving it as a slight towards a vendor. I have always stood by pricing transparency personally and I think it prevents obscure and unfair pricing from gripping a market, whether it is gems or otherwise.

The onus falls on us, as consumers participating in a broader market, to also empower each other too, especially if your broadest claim is a perceived unfairness towards you regarding variable pricing

EDIT — one of the most powerful features of this forum is the data aggregated on diamonds, including specs and prices. It’s easier to identify “fair” prices

I have absolutely seen comments on the diamond side calling out specific vendors for being “expensive” or even overpriced (and sometimes that premium is for a specific service or guaranteed quality, sometimes it seems arbitrary)…that doesn’t mean that people are slandering, or even that it prevents people from buying from said vendors…it’s a way for everyone here to participate in a community that strives to be ethical and have open communication

No comparable database exists for gemstones, bc the market isn’t as standardized for too many reasons to enumerate here it’s not possible - and buying closer to the source is even more Wild West bc we are relying on referrals, leaps of faith and anecdotes to make judgment calls (and obviously the stones themselves haha)

…and that’s bringing me back to why I think us sharing pricing or with one another is a powerful and beneficial thing (obvi not pushing anyone who’s not comfortable) and it seems to align with the ethos of your original post

 

[theredspinel]

Say you buy a stone for $1000 and mark it up to $2000. That is a 100% mark up. You give a 50% discount on the $2000; you are back to $1000 again.

Only the high end retailers and brick and mortar retailers (jewelers) mark ther price up from 300% to 700%. I worked in both retail and wholesale for 40 years. That is what it amounts too.

The far majority of internet dealers would go broke at 50% discount.

Using your example, product is 1000, 100% markup takes it to 2000, 50% profit (should say on the markup) takes it to 1500.

 

[fredflintstone]

Using your example, product is 1000, 100% markup takes it to 2000, 50% profit (should say on the markup) takes it to 1500.

Yes, I misread what you were saying. Sorry. That is why I deleted it.

 

[Bojambles]

Your comment is misconstruing what I am saying.

The point IS to empower consumers with information and pricing transparency, which you seem disinterested in participating in bc you are perceiving it as a slight towards a vendor. I have always stood by pricing transparency personally and I think it prevents obscure and unfair pricing from gripping a market, whether it is gems or otherwise.

The onus falls on us, as consumers participating in a broader market, to also empower each other too, especially if your broadest claim is a perceived unfairness towards you regarding variable pricing

Good to clear up what you meant.

This is my opinion, not my "claim", that the pricing variation given by some vendors to regulars and newbies is unfair.

It is also my opinion that rather than the variation just being discounts being given to regulars, some vendors are simply charging newbies more under the guise of "prices to the moon".

This is the way I view it you're welcome to disagree with my opinion as others have.

If I have to make a "claim" and disclose seller names when I want to point out a trend and give what I think it is a fitting example to be counted as being interested in participating, sure flag my opinion as inaccurate, unhelpful or whatever.

The irony is that because there is no pricing transparency in the first place that I cannot make such a claim, only an opinion.

I've already given the scenario and the prices. That should be enough for someone to have their own opinion on whether a price jump for that type of stone from $5K (not sure whether regular but let's assume it is) by ~100% in 9 months for a non regular is within the realm of normal.

And opinions on what % of discounts to a regular is "fair" varies as well.

 

[fredflintstone]

Finally, independent vendors can have wildly different ways of pricing and it takes time to figure that out. It's not just "instagram" or "close to source" sellers. While @fredflintstone may have one fixed price for new and one fixed price for existing customers, that isn't always the case:

Just to correct and clarify.


My discounts were the same for a regular customer or a new customer. Never had two fixed prices for one stone or stones for any customer(s). If the customer did not ask for a discount, then they paid the posted price. But over half did ask for a better price and depending on how much I paid for the stone was what I could do for a discounted price, but never more than 20%. My prices were reasonable to begin with.

Oh, I am not selling anymore.