No MWM ring for me.

[diamondseeker2006]

Lol! I can imagine why the comments about the melee originated. People wanting a very particular "brand" for melee.

 

[Maisie]

Date: 2/8/2007 4:59:38 PM
Author: luvmysparklies


Well, the verbiage on his website indicates (and has indicated) that he likes very specific, well thought out projects. A person would naturally think to be as specific as possible rather than waste his or their time flip-flopping and being generally indecisive. That could drive any custom jewelry maker nuts.

But when it is emphasized 'very specific' it could be reasonably concluded that the potential client should have a very focused idea of what they want. All gypsy did was be specific, which is what was stated as being desired by Mark on his website. Then all of a sudden the 'artisan diva' comes out and now she's too specific? When I read this from his website, it comes off arrogant and condescending...There is a less crappy way to convey the point he wants to make. If I want someone to flip me the birdie, I'll cut them off in traffic! LOL!

General Information
Regarding accent stones (baguettes, trapezoids, 'fancies' in general) and small round diamonds (melle) to accompany your center diamond:

Please don't buy a suite of stones with the assumption that I'm willing to set whatever I receive from your sources.

I'll provide any necessary small stones for the work that I do. If I'm unable source the stones myself, then we'll discuss our options.

If you feel the need to have a particular vendor's small / accent diamonds used in your project, there is every chance that the vendor can help you with your mounting needs as well. You won't need my advocacy.

Well he is straight to the point isn't he?

 

[fatkid]

I do not think it comes back to her powerpoint presentation specifically. (ie her design requirements she outlined)

its her stating the very obvious: "I would like this setting executed as flawlessly as possible"

have you ever had someone tell you do something when you''re _just_ about to do it.. like brush your teeth, take out the garbage... a weak analogy.. the reaction might be diva''esque or childlike, but nevertheless it''s annoying when someone nags.

And that''s the beauty of freelance in any industry, you get to pick and choose your projects/client at your whim.

-r.

 

[FireGoddess]

I too don''t think it''s the powerpoint exactly...I think it''s the inferred tone of what was said. ''I want this executed as flawlessly as possible''...can be construed as insulting. Of course you do, who wouldn''t!!! However I think it does help to be explicit as possible, no doubt, when a customer is commissioning a custom piece. I think that the words used just immediately triggered the association with a prior bad experience and MWM decided it was a risky endeavor for him. Okay, that''s fine...NEXT!

 

[Ellen]

I''m really sorry Gypsy. Don''t give up, carry on.

I too think it''s the flawless remark. And while all of us would want that, and normally say it just to cover our bases, this is probably the ONE person I wouldn''t have said it to. Because, his work is flawless...

 

[pricescope]

Gypsy, if you are looking for an extra bling not necessarily for a halo, this ring will be available as a line from a respectable designer company very soon, there is another one too, but this one will accommodate an asscher.
May be it's better for you to get a "ready" ring, not a custom - kind of "what you see is what you get".

 

[ILikeBond]

Gypsy, I've been working with Knox Jewlers on a semi-custom setting and have been very pleased. More importantly, there are lots of pics, etc., on their website showing the process and final product. Apparently, the younger Knox is a wiz with Auto CAD. You may want to give them a try.

Knox Custom Information

 

[ebonykawai]

Date: 2/8/2007 5:56:34 PM
Author: Pricescope
Gypsy, if you are looking for an extra bling not necessarily for a halo, this ring will be available as a line from a respectable designer company very soon, there is another one too, but this one will accommodate an asscher.
May be it''s better for you to get a ''ready'' ring, not a custom - kind of ''what you see is what you get''.

I would love that info myself. It''s gorgeous!

 

[widget]

Date: 2/8/2007 5:56:34 PM
Author: Pricescope
Gypsy, if you are looking for an extra bling not necessarily for a halo, this ring will be available as a line from a respectable designer company very soon, there is another one too, but this one will accommodate an asscher.

Wow, Irina!!!!! What a STUNNING mounting!

Can''t wait to find out which respectable designer company!!!!

I wonder if that style could be applied to three stone settings? Too busy maybe? (always thinking...)

widget

 

[blingergrrrl]

hmmmm...I would ALSO like to know!

 

[rainwood]

I almost never post, but just wanted to add my thoughts here. I got both my diamond (Whiteflash) and ring (Mark Morrell) through Pricescope. I''d read some of the comments about MWM and looked at his website which did seem a little offputting, but his work was the only one that spoke to me. I like clean, flowing lines and no one does that like Mark. So I contacted him.

Mark is an absolute sweetheart and not a diva at all. He was more concerned about getting my ring just the way I wanted it than I was! My theory is that he uses his website to filter out as many people as he can who think that the custom route may be: cheaper; faster; perfection; or the final step to paradise. Mark''s been around for a long time (he''s a grandfather) and constantly dealing with people who are getting engaged which means he''s often dealing with people at a high time of stress. I''m sure he''s seen and heard it all. When alarm bells go off, he''s at the stage where he can say "No."

Mark does like people to be able to clearly communicate what they want so he can make what they want. He wants his customers to be happy. He likes to work with visuals (photos, drawings, etc) and use that process to get the design of the ring the way his customer envisions it. That said, I''m not surprised he decided to pull the plug. Mark is a master at what he does, you''d had a long conversation (which is an investment of his time away from his other work), and then he gets the Powerpoint presentation. The words "flawlessly executed" would have been enough to scare me away.

Gypsy, you can take the following for what it''s worth. I too am a lawyer - in practice for 27 years. Both the training and practice of law shape the way we communicate. One of the things I learned (the hard way a few times) was that what we lawyers think is the obvious and logical way to communicate and proceed may not always be the best way. Sometimes when we approach things in an analytical, precise, "leave no stone unturned" (no pun intended) way, people look at us like we''re a genius for taking a bunch of facts and issues and organizing them into a clear and precise solution. Sometimes, people think otherwise. Figuring out which way to approach things is a lesson all young lawyers end up having to learn. I still remember the first time my husband said I was using my "lawyer voice." I didn''t even know I had one!

Maybe your experience with MWM is that lesson for you. A disappointing one, but those are the kind we learn from and grow. I wouldn''t give up the search for a great setting. I would give up the search for the "perfect" setting because that''s just more stress than you need right now and not likely to be achieved. Nothing is perfect.

 

[Gypsy]

Wow Irina that''s stunning... erm, what company is that from?

As for the ''flawlessly as possible''... yes, I agree that it was the wrong comment to make. On the other hand, if your work is flawless, which is why I called you... what''s wrong with saying that I want it as flawless as possible. Obviously it bad association for him though.

I''m an attorney... a CONTRACTS attorney. I like things spelled out. Wasn''t a good mix, and yes it is good to know now... before I sent over the development $$ that I was going to send out this week to get on his calendar.

Anyway... NEXT is right.

And next is going to wait. I''m just... feeling discouraged. I''m sure the bug will bite me again to do this reset... but for now, I''m going to get my ring replated and leave well enough alone.

Thank you all for your insight.

 

[lumpkin]

I am sorry too Gypsy. I know you were really excited about working with him.

I once had a project declined by a local custom jeweler because I wanted delicate prongs and he said he doesn''t shave down perfectly good prongs to make them weak and useless. It was unsettling and a little embarrassing and I left feeling a mixture of "What the h***???" and " What a jerk!" In the end I found several nice local jewelers to work with. You really will find someone you click with.

I have to agree whole heartedly with Mara. Don''t waste time fretting about it. Better now than in the middle of the project.

 

[DiamondSmitten]

Gypsy, I am sorry you are still having a hard time. I followed your thread on a baguette halo before and it was actually the inspiration for my baguette halo. I am not sure what you are looking for now but my jeweler was so fabulous and patient and his work is simply magnificent. My setting was only 2100 which was a fantastic deal compared to what so many others quoted me so he is very reasonable. I would honestly think about contacting him if you are looking for a quality/cost effectiveness hybrid of sorts. My setting can be viewed at
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-new-ering-had-fun-in-the-sun.55572/
My photographer skills are not so great but the work is awesome.... compliments EVERYDAY... from ppl who have jewelers I could NEVER afford.

 

[Cehrabehra]

wow, I am SOOOO sorry

This is exactly what I expected he''d do with me... if you read all the fine print on his site he''s very against anal people and I got the feeling he''d reject me so I rejected him first. I am SOOOOOOOOOOO sorry about this gypsy

But hey - since you''re not in a huge hurry you can see how my ring turns out and maybe you''ll like ocean MUCH more reasonable $$ so maybe you don''t have to wait

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/8/2007 3:39:06 PM
Author: mrssalvo
I''m sorry Gypsy. I know how excited you were about your project and finding the right person to make it for you. Have faith, the right one is out there. Have you thought about Ocean, the gal Wink uses. I saw part of the presentation they did with Cehra and she and Wink both seemed to be open to, enough love all the detail Cehra put into her design ideas. anyway, better to know you''re not a match now then 1/2 way through..

yes, ocean is VERY nice and TOTALLY open to ideas... if I were you I would wait and see how "cehra''s" ring turned out first haha - since you have some time and ocean is kinda ps newbie... Maybe you can make the next meeting if we have it online again

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/8/2007 3:46:56 PM
Author: Gypsy
I really am very dissapointed...but it really is his perrogative.

I think its a sign that I really should just not do this re-set at all. I don''t think it was meant to be.

no... its a sign that MM isn''t the right person for the job. I admit it - things like this just reinforce my concerns about him. It seems that once a jeweler has become super popular, it kinda goes to their head.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/8/2007 4:46:41 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 2/8/2007 4:09:13 PM
Author: decodelighted
It''s probably for the best. I can see how those phrases could be perceived as ''insulting'' to an artist known (and probably CHOSEN) for his perfectionism. Especially after a discussion where ''trust'' was presumably built -- only to be dashed by a form-letter presentation stating seemingly obvious requests: I want it ''flawless'' ... please make it ''even''???

This seems like a case of ''upper hand''. Artists like MWM get to pick & choose what they do with their time. Don''t treat them with kid gloves & your project won''t be chosen. Seem like you''re not possible to please ... why bother trying?

Next!

Ya might have to decide if you want to romance an artiste & let him do his thing .... or completely control the process with someone whose ego can take it.

I am really sorry to hear this as well, Gypsy. I agree with Deco''s first point. I think your PP would be good for an unknown custom jeweler, but since Mark Morrell is fairly much known for the highest quality work (shown in highly magnified photos), it would maybe be a little insulting to tell him some of those things. I think some ideas of what size stones and some pictures of styles you like would have been fine. In my case, as an example, I just asked him what kind of melee he used and he told me, and I said it was fine (rather than me telling him what I expected before asking him). Handmade jewelry is rarely perfect...there''s always cast jewlery for people who want something identical to a sample. But I think when you get to the level of Mark Morrell or Leon, it goes without saying that their quality is the highest, so they probably don''t need your full powerpoint. At least that is something to consider the next time.

well known or not - I think it boils down to ego pure and simple.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 2/8/2007 5:56:34 PM
Author: Pricescope
Gypsy, if you are looking for an extra bling not necessarily for a halo, this ring will be available as a line from a respectable designer company very soon, there is another one too, but this one will accommodate an asscher.
May be it''s better for you to get a ''ready'' ring, not a custom - kind of ''what you see is what you get''.

Irina would you care to tell us the actual designers name - must be someone pretty competent i would say?

And the name?
That is the greek letter Gamma - but the other name - one suspects that might also be a story?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 2/8/2007 3:42:33 PM
Author: Gypsy
I did send him an email explaining where I was coming from... but his wife replied and made it clear that it was over as far as he was concerned...

Funny thing is... the vendors I have sent this presentation to always love it because they say it makes my needs clear and my ideas concrete. Oh course... most of those have been ''build to print'' folk... and Mark is not.

These are the phrases he took offense to... mea culpa:

Regarding the diamonds used in the setting:
''And, though this may not be necessary to state, as perfectly matched and aligned as possible''

Regarding the setting itself:


If there is a question on whether or not I want ''‘exhibition quality’ or ‘saleable quality’ ... would like this setting executed as flawlessly as possible''

You might remember that the question of ‘exhibition quality’ v ‘saleable quality’ came up in the baguette halo querries... which amazed us all.


Here was his response:

'' really only have one quality to offer. I''ve built a reputation within and outside of my industry with my level of fit and finish. However, I did attempt to work with a young lady who felt she had ''microscopic vision''. She first came to me with a document that was not unlike yours in content . She found herself scrutinizing things I had never though about in my 36 years on the work bench. Unfortunately, many of her unstated prior assumptions came to light after I delivered her ring. In an effort to avoid ''Death by a thousand small cuts'', I bought my work back from her boyfriend.

When you state:

I would like this setting executed as flawlessly as possible

I have to ask - Why wouldn''t you? But I also need to ask: ''Flawless'' by who''s standard?

I enjoyed our talk yesterday very much.

In considering our earlier discussions about keeping costs under control along with today''s document wherein you feel the need to mention:

Ø''''And, though this may not be necessary to state, as perfectly matched and aligned as possible.''''

Without mincing words, the above comment reminds me too much of comments made by a handful of others over the course of my career who I should not have tried to please. When I hear a comment such as the one above, a switch is thrown in my thought process that causes me to second guess every move I make on behalf of whomever made that statement. Ultimately, I spend much more time on that project than necessary. When my work is well received, it''s very rare for my work to not be well received, I still end up on the losing end because of the excessive time spent.

I do my kind of work to a degree of fit and finish that has established me in some very good circles but at the end of the day, I''m simply a craftsman trying to do good work for those who trust me to do so. I regret that this is the time for me to thank you very much for considering me for your project but I feel it''s in my best interest to decline your request.

I wish you well moving forward.

Best

Mark Morrell''

Sorry to hear the prob''s Gypsy - I can see where he is vcoming from as an employer of 6 bench jewellers.

We have extremely fussy clients from time to time, and on rare occasions i have stepped in and asked if the client wants "design award" finish which is judged by our peers to be flawless and should hold up to 5x magnification. This can cost 2 times more depending on the piece. I have only seen 1 MM piece and it was not that quality - but it was a top commercial finish.

The trouble is when you are in that position t is almost a challenge to the client to find the flaw - so i usually also step in over the staff who are working with the cleint and demand design changes that avoid hard to get to crevices etc.

BTW someone referred to Mark as a Pricescope jeweller - I do not believe MM has ever advertised here on Pricescope - but he obviously benefits financially and also from the wonderful designs that come his way from the resourceful Pscope family.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/8/2007 4:41:41 PM
Author: kev_800
Just some general observations....

I would think its a sign of prefessionalism and pride in his own work that he would decline a project based upon the requests of his client or whether he feels he could meet the client''s expecatations. Its pretty clear by doing a search here or on google that former clients are generally incredibly enthusiastic about the jewelry he creates...and he is an artist and when you approach an artist you should look at ALL of his creations to determine if what he creates is something that is compatible with your sense of aesthetics. The way you build trust in an artist who is commissioned to create something is to view their portfolio and determine compatibility.

Maybe thats just me....

I think that people are confusing art with commissioned art though - if an artist wants to create whatever the heck he wants - that''s fine and dandy and they can sell it in a store or gallery - but when a piece of art is COMMISSIONED as these custom jewelry pieces are, then the wishes of the client must be respected in the execution of the piece. If they can''t do it - decline it yes... if him turning gypsy down this one time was the only thing I might blow it off, but this isn''t the only indication of ego I''ve seen. Maybe he should stick to doing his art and selling it ready made.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/8/2007 4:45:33 PM
Author: kcoursolle
Oh Gypsy, what a bummer!! I''m probably as anal and detail oriented as you, so I can really relate to how you might feel right now. The way I see it there are two ways to get a quality ring done: 1) you can choose an artist like leon or MM and have little input and have to *trust* that the final product will turn out beautifully, or 2) chose someone more like WF who does quality work, but without the artisan nature or ego and have quite a bit of input, but you might not have the level of detail or craftsmanship as leon or mm.

Tough call...depending on the project, I might *trust* leon or MM with it, but with other designs I want a ring made to order exactly the way I specified. This was the case with my five stone band. I had a specific idea in mind and I wanted someone to execute it well rather than give artisitc input and for this the ppt presentation worked well.

I''m convinced that ocean is the best of both worlds - I won''t recommend her until I have a ring that I can vouch for... but I do see her as an artist and not just a bench worker... but without the artiste attitude.

One of the reasons I didn''t feel comfortable with many of the vendors like whiteflash and GOG was because I wanted to "know" who did my ring... I couldn''t even be sure with leon mege if he did it... but after talking with ocean I know that she cares about the outcome, not just because she wants me satisfied, but because she wants herself satisfied.

Ocean WILL give artistic input - in fact it really is a perfect marriage of the two so far... a collaboration.

BTW when I talked to maytal I found out that she doesn''t do all her own work either... she mentioned some "little salvadoran fellow" (or something like that) who has been doing this for like 60 years (don''t quote me there either lol) who does the bench work. I was left wondering what *she* does lol translation I guess...

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/8/2007 5:12:58 PM
Author: fatkid
I do not think it comes back to her powerpoint presentation specifically. (ie her design requirements she outlined)

its her stating the very obvious: ''I would like this setting executed as flawlessly as possible''

have you ever had someone tell you do something when you''re _just_ about to do it.. like brush your teeth, take out the garbage... a weak analogy.. the reaction might be diva''esque or childlike, but nevertheless it''s annoying when someone nags.

And that''s the beauty of freelance in any industry, you get to pick and choose your projects/client at your whim.

-r.

I wonder if it was that she sent this to him after she told him she''d have to put it off for a bit - maybe he doesn''t like his head cluttered with too much and doesn''t want this lingering and anything that throws up a flag - red or yellow - is just like nahhhhh....

 

[Gypsy]

I like the suggestion of Ocean... I will wait and see how Cehra's ring turns out... especially as I need the time to regroup. Thank you Cehra.

I did contact Leon about the project before MWM and his price was much more reasonable....

I have removed that language from my presentation.

I still believe it that the powerpoint is the best way to nail it all down.

I won't give in to DRAMA Mara.

I don't want flawless... I want heirloom quality.. I want the quality to stand up to years of wear.

And I do not believe that MWM is a bad guy... I think he's a little sensitive... but he might well have cause to be. And I repect the integrity of his work.

This post isn't a slur against him... I just wanted to talk to you all and hear your thoughts. Thank you for always being honest.

ETA: Cehra, I wasn't putting it off really, I was going to pay the development fees now, to get on his calendar... then go forward when I had the rest of the $$. I don't think that was it. But thank you, as always, for the support.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/8/2007 8:34:42 PM
Author: Gypsy
I like the suggestion of Ocean... I will wait and see how Cehra''s ring turns out... especially as I need the time to regroup. Thank you Cehra.

I did contact Leon about the project before MWM and his price was much more reasonable....

I have removed that language from my presentation.

I still believe it that the powerpoint is the best way to nail it all down.

I won''t give in to DRAMA Mara.

I don''t want flawless... I want heirloom quality.. I want the quality to stand up to years of wear.

And I do not believe that MWM is a bad guy... I think he''s a little sensitive... but he might well have cause to be. And I repect the integrity of his work.

This post isn''t a slur against him... I just wanted to talk to you all and hear your thoughts. Thank you for always being honest.

ETA: Cehra, I wasn''t putting it off really, I was going to pay the development fees now, to get on his calendar... then go forward when I had the rest of the $$. I don''t think that was it. But thank you, as always, for the support.

Heirloom quality is EXACTLY the wording that wink, ocean and I were using on the phone after the public session... and heirloom quality is what wink really prefers to work with.

I don''t think he''s bad either, but I know more now than ever that he''s not the guy for me. I am hopeful for my current situation and if I were you I''d just sit back and see how this unfolds for me... hopefully it''ll just be a few weeks (well a couple months most) but compared to the 12 weeks I invested in the other lady to get the wax only to where it is... yikes! lol

Right now I''m waiting for some sketches and then I''m going to have to pry the diamond out of my fingers... waaaaaaaaaa......

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 2/8/2007 8:16:48 PM
Author: Cehrabehra
Maybe he should stick to doing his art and selling it ready made.

Wow. Just wow.

So ...if an "artist" doesn''t want to execute EVERY arm-chair designer''s sugar plum visions, ahem ... flawlessly, don''t forget flawlessly .. he should just shut himself away from ALL clients??

 

[iheartscience]

Isn''t custom work just that, though? Executing the "sugar plum visions" of "armchair designers?"

I understand just letting a jeweler/artist go with their own vision, but if you have a specific vision and share that with an artist who makes his living doing commisioned works, then yes, he should execute that vision and accept direction.

I agree with Cehrabehra completely: it just seems like his ego is out of control.

 

[Officers girl]

Im sorry hun but hey his loss I wouldnt give a dime to somebody who would send me an email like that.

Seriously though good luck on your project!!!

 

[Miranda]

Date: 2/8/2007 5:56:34 PM
Author: Pricescope
Gypsy, if you are looking for an extra bling not necessarily for a halo, this ring will be available as a line from a respectable designer company very soon, there is another one too, but this one will accommodate an asscher.
May be it''s better for you to get a ''ready'' ring, not a custom - kind of ''what you see is what you get''.

Gypsy - Sorry MM is being so *artsy* about this. I''m sure he''s had his share of difficult clients, though. It just wasn''t meant to be. Something else will work out. Chin up!

Now I have to threadjack!!!!!!!! Would that setting accomodate an oval???????? I am in love with that...It is the most perfect setting I''ve ever seen.......Is is from the Bellerina line??????

I cannot wait for more details!!!!! Is it 4 prong??? Is it 6 prong??? Double prongs??? Single prongs??? Maybe if it''s not going to be available for ovals I will change my year long plan and be a round girl after all...............*swooning here*******swooning!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Gosh, I think one would have to speak to Mark Morrell personally to make any judgment about his character. But I think he does very fine work and has every reason to be selective on the jobs he takes. As Garry said earlier, if someone is going to use a 10x loupe to examine the rings, then they probably need to pay more than the standard amount for that level of perfection. But the funny thing here to me is, Gypsy still seems to respect MM in spite of the situation because I know she liked him when she talked to him. It''s others who are jumping to conclusions.