NO "official" Hearts & Arrows criteria? Let's fix that....

[Murander]

I was preparing a Microsoft Word document to better explain what I am about to propose, but it unfortunately crashed before I had a chance to save the file.

I think everyone is going to understand what I'm getting at here, and I may be way out of line, but here goes...

Since there are no official grading standards that a seller must produce to legally identify a diamond as Hearts & Arrows, how about vendors create a simple Microsoft Word document containing a portion of the following information (some of this is just history and not relating to specs/criteria): https://www.pricescope.com/journal/hearts_and_arrows_diamonds_and_basics_diamond_cutting/

This document can be titled "[Vendor Name] confirmation of Hearts & Arrows Diamond"

The document should start with a paragraph containing the following:
-vendor name
-explanation that the diamond being sold is identified as Hearts & Arrows according to the criteria set forth in this document.
-signed by owner/appropriate business representative including First Name, Middle Initial, Last Name, and Business title (Owner, CEO, whatever)
-Date of sale
-Name of customer
-A list of the diamond's specs that is being identified as Hearts & Arrows and sold to the customer including: carat, cut, color, clarity, table %, depth %, crown angle, pavilion angle, and other necessary information to appropriately match the stone.
-A lifetime warranty (perhaps lifetime is overboard but maybe a shorter time period is appropriate: 1 year, 5 years?) clause that guarantees the customer a full refund if the customer is able to provide data showing that the criteria within the document are not met. Too much??

Just a thought....one that I think would give customers more peace of mind in choosing whether or not to purchase a diamond defined by criteria that are not so "official"

 

[Cabochon1]

Re: NO "official" Hearts & Arrows criteria? Let's fix that.

In another thread John Pollard had linked the following from the HRD (Belgian Grading laboratory)

The HRD grades hearts and arrows diamonds as follows....

http://www.hrd.be/media/24344/hearts_arrows_guidelines.pdf

 

[Murander]

Re: NO "official" Hearts & Arrows criteria? Let's fix that.

I wonder if any PS vendors would be willing to sign a cover sheet with the details I outlined in the original thread, guaranteeing conformity to the document that you posted?

I think signed representation assuring conformity to a standard would be that little extra assurance that some customers need to make that final step of picking Hearts & Arrows.

 

[oldminer]

Re: NO "official" Hearts & Arrows criteria? Let's fix that.

Hearts and Arrows is what I have always called a wonderful marketing accident, but of very little importance to diamond quality or grading. No doubt, many sellers using this marketing approach would strongly disagree and folks who have bought into H&A will be annoyed at my apparent lack of respect for the "special look" or "special quality" these stones have. I don't believe these H&A stones have a better look to them than some other, less than H&A stones, but I do agree that the H&A effect does make a diamond look a particular way. If you like that look above all others, then, of course, H&A works for you and that's perfectly fine. A diamond displaying perfected H&A is one that has had extra time and labor applied to it to perfect the pattern and also will result in a highly symmetric stone in most every case. The decision of whether this extra cost makes any difference to the end-user is subjective.

On the other hand, a really well written explanation of H&A, how it is created, what it does, what it implies about quality, benefits, etc would not be unwelcome. People do want to understand what it means, but writing a paper in an unbiased manner would diminish the relative importance of the H&A effect. When used as a marketing tool, the positives are pushed and the other side of the issue is left out to a great extent. Do you want to promote H&A or do you want to present the facts and let readers decide? That is an important issue that the writer must resolve first. There will be pressure from those who market H&A to do it their way and having credibility in the face of their criticism will be difficult for most writers. Remember, the marketers who promote H&A generally have stellar reputations and sell very fine products. They will potentially look like the credible voices in such a situation and the writer will look more like a loser who is trying to ruin the honest marketing of very successful firms. Who will the public believe?

On the warranty or guarantee side side of this situation, I'd say that H&A is definitely forever and that every vendor on Pricescope offering such a diamond stands fully behind their claim forever. There is no need for more legal paperwork when using a well respected source. H&A has no long term effect on the value of a diamond and whatever return policy in effect at the time of purchase should be sufficient for any buyer. If a return policy does not warrant the quality being as stated, then it is not a good policy at all. I think that part of the issue is a non-starter.

Thanks for starting this topic. I'm always amazed at the interest raised by H&A discussions.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Re: NO "official" Hearts & Arrows criteria? Let's fix that.

David,

As a cutter of diamonds, that are produced not with the intention of H&A, but where the pattern is a natural evolution of my specific process, I can relate to what you are saying.

H&A can be compared to whipped cream. In the dish that I prepare, I need a specific quality of whipped cream to obtain the taste that I desire. Then again, I do not like it if the dish is refered to as whipped cream, as if that were the only distinguisher.

And as whipped cream is a very wide definition, I even do not like the comparison to other dishes, also labeled as whipped creams, as if the fact that they also have whipped cream as an ingredient puts them at the same level as my dish.

In that sense, I agree that H&A does not offer any better quality, just like whipped cream as such says nothing about the dish. But if the whipped cream of a very high quality is used in a great combination of ingredients, leading to a superior dish, the whipped cream becomes essential again. And then, you refuting the quality-value of H&A is like throwing away the baby with the bathwater.

Briefly, I think that the term 'H&A' is overused, badly defined and abused to such an extent that we would do better replacing it with something else. Then again, at that point in time, the interests of various parties kick in again, and as you described, it will be close to impossible to get to a definition, accepted by all parties.

I hope that this did not sound too confusing.

Live long,

 

[kenny]

Re: NO "official" Hearts & Arrows criteria? Let's fix that.

Cupid flies around and shoots a magic arrow into the heart and love blossoms.

There, I've just explained Hearts and Arrows.

Seriously, this silly myth is custom made for the marketing folks.
They know that appealing to people's romantic notions translates into dollars.

 

[kauffee1]

Re: NO "official" Hearts & Arrows criteria? Let's fix that.

As a novice who just purchased an H&A stone, I'll give you my opinion. I'm not sure an official criteria or standard would be useful unless it was part of the certification by GIA or AGS. Informed consumers who read this forum can read Brian Gavin's paper, look at a bunch of hearts images, and decide for themselves if a stone is H&A or not.

Uninformed consumers, on the other hand, would need the grading document to actually certify the stone as H&A (based on some criteria), otherwise they'd just be taking the vendor's word for it.

For me, buying H&A had nothing to do with marketing. I had considered a number of stones and was getting extremely stressed and frustrated by the process. Was stone X too deep? Was its pavilion or crown angle too shallow? Why doesn't it have a better HCA score? Ugh.

I realized that for a small premium, I could buy an H&A stone from one of the PS vendors and rest easy knowing I was getting an ideal cut stone. That was very much worth it for me.

 

[Lula]

Re: NO "official" Hearts & Arrows criteria? Let's fix that.

As a novice who just purchased an H&A stone, I'll give you my opinion. I'm not sure an official criteria or standard would be useful unless it was part of the certification by GIA or AGS. Informed consumers who read this forum can read Brian Gavin's paper, look at a bunch of hearts images, and decide for themselves if a stone is H&A or not.

Uninformed consumers, on the other hand, would need the grading document to actually certify the stone as H&A (based on some criteria), otherwise they'd just be taking the vendor's word for it.

For me, buying H&A had nothing to do with marketing. I had considered a number of stones and was getting extremely stressed and frustrated by the process. Was stone X too deep? Was its pavilion or crown angle too shallow? Why doesn't it have a better HCA score? Ugh.

I realized that for a small premium, I could buy an H&A stone from one of the PS vendors and rest easy knowing I was getting an ideal cut stone. That was very much worth it for me.

If you are buying a top-tier, branded H&A from a vendor, they should be able to supply you with hearts and arrows images and an H&A viewer for observing the stone in real life (better than the images in my opinion) and a rationale for why those images support that the stone is an H&A. But a word of caution: there are stones sold as H&A that are cut too shallow or too deep and/or do not have angles that complement one another. H&A refers only to the patterning.

 

[Murander]

Re: NO "official" Hearts & Arrows criteria? Let's fix that.

Mr. Atlas,

Thanks for your response. When I do find the stone I'm looking for, I'll be coming down to the Lehigh Valley for an appraisal.



Lula,
would you give an example of a H&A cut too shallow or too deep??

 

[Lula]

Re: NO "official" Hearts & Arrows criteria? Let's fix that.

Mr. Atlas,

Thanks for your response. When I do find the stone I'm looking for, I'll be coming down to the Lehigh Valley for an appraisal.



Lula,
would you give an example of a H&A cut too shallow or too deep??

Here you go, Murander. You tend to find steep-deep stones at the important carat weight cut-offs, e.g., .50 carat, .75 carat, 1.00 carat, etc.

These are from James Allen's website, and I don't mean to single them out -- their database is just quick and easy to search. This stone may look okay in person, but, for me it's too deep, and that shows in the Idealscope image.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1255600.asp

Here's one that's deep, but the angles are better (smaller crown angle). Look at the difference in the Idealscope for this stone compared to the IS above:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1248023.asp

Yet both are H&A stones.

There are many examples like this, again, I just chose these two pretty much at random. That's why you can't go by H&A alone; you need to look to see if the angles are complementary, check the Idealscope image and the photograph (and video if available) of the stone, the precision of the cutting, etc., and, most important, view the stone in person and compare it to other well-cut stones, observe it under different lighting conditions, etc. Many elements go into making a beautiful stone, not just whether it shows an H&A pattern.

ETA: If someone on PS was considering buying the first stone, I'd ask James Allen to retake the Idealscope image, because the numbers are at the edge of being steep-deep and the Idealscope may show leakage, or it may just show that the stone is tilted in the photo. So, again, it doesn't mean that the diamond will look noticeably worse in person, but it does mean that extra information should be gathered about this particular stone.

ETA2: Here's one at the 1.00 carat mark that "appears" to have been cut on the steep-deep side to make it to the 1 carat mark.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1304534.asp
What makes me say that? A well-cut 1 carat diamond should be close to 6.5 mm. This one is a bit shy of that. So you're getting a 1 carat diamond that is a little smaller than other, better-cut 1 carat diamonds. Yet it's an H&A. Again, check the Idealscope and you'll see that it's not quite perfectly red in the center. And again, this diamond could look just fine to your eyes in person, but you are paying the 1 carat and H&A premiums for a diamond that is a little steeper and deeper than other 1 carat diamonds.

 

[oldminer]

Re: NO "official" Hearts & Arrows criteria? Let's fix that.

Paul, I undrestand what you are saying. H&A included in an otherwise wonderfully well cut stone is one more tasty ingredient in an overall successful recipe for a top end diamond. Reducing the entire diamond's cut quality to having, or not having, H&A is not the way either of us would like to see it graded or marketed....Yes.