Nucular Iran?

[rainbowtrout]

Date: 4/24/2006 3:25:13 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 4/24/2006 8:48:57 AM

Author: fire&ice

Like, doncha know - this is history on PS. When all else fails, call into question someone''s diction, grammar or spelling.

I do not agree with doing that (denigrating someone for his spelling or grammar), but I also do not believe that good grammar is a crime. I do not believe that we all must try to speak in the folksiest manner possible to show we are good ''ole boys. I think (as I said) that the ability to write and to speak well is a gift.

as is the ability to create new usages and words (a la Shakespeare)

I know the "like" thing can seem ridiculous, and it happens to be a usage I don''t really enjoy, so I try to avoid saying it. But if enough people do use it that way, it will eventually become "correct" and "good" usage.

Good grammer is defintely not a crime. I think judging someone for standard grammer is done as well (he or she is "trying" too hard to look educated, when really that is just how they speak).

 

[Mr Majestyk]

Proper English will thankfully never go out of style.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 4/24/2006 7:50:15 PM
Author: Mr Majestyk
Proper English will thankfully never go out of style.

Hopefully, using it to discredit someone''s opinion will go the wayside. I think not.

 

[Rank Amateur]

Date: 4/24/2006 3:34:56 PM
Author: rainbowtrout

Good grammer is defintely not a crime.

Help! Police!

 

[rainbowtrout]

very funny, batman...


ETA: tee hee, I ALWAYS misspell that one without spellcheck! Caught it!

I still stand by my split inf comment, I like to be able to say "He said to still be wary" or somesuch.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 4/25/2006 12:38:39 PM
Author: Rank Amateur

Date: 4/24/2006 3:34:56 PM
Author: rainbowtrout

Good grammer is defintely not a crime.

Help! Police!

That would be - Help! Spelling Police!

...very different than the Grammer Police!

This is precisely what I mean. I don''t read someone''s response and say "wow, this person can''t have any informed view because of their spelling, etc". I''m all for getting your point across - but don''t think good grammar=good grasp of an idea, situation, etc.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 4/25/2006 4:32:12 PM
Author: fire&ice
I''m all for getting your point across - but don''t think good grammar=good grasp of an idea, situation, etc.

Don''t say that too loudly or my high school English teacher will start spinning in her grave...and she isn''t dead yet! She insisted that good writing led to clear thinking. I tend to agree. Clear writing may not be grammatical writing, however. (I wonder if she would dispute that?)

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 4/25/2006 5:04:50 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 4/25/2006 4:32:12 PM
Author: fire&ice
I''m all for getting your point across - but don''t think good grammar=good grasp of an idea, situation, etc.

Don''t say that too loudly or my high school English teacher will start spinning in her grave...and she isn''t dead yet! She insisted that good writing led to clear thinking. I tend to agree. Clear writing may not be grammatical writing, however. (I wonder if she would dispute that?)

Define good writing? I don''t think perfect grammar is defined as good writing. And, I don''t think you have to write to dictate clear thinking. I keep going back to the Farmer''s at the Farmer''s market. They don''t have clear diction. They don''t have "proper" grammar - and sometimes get their point across with double negatives on purpose. But, their thinking/thought could be more clearer on the basics of life.

Now, my grammar sensiblities are "finger nails on chalkboard" when I watch the likes (YIKES!) of the Jerry Springer show - expletative every other word w/ ain''t thrown in too many times!

 

[rainbowtrout]

I remember my English teacher in elementary school telling me I couldn''t start a sentance with "and." Uh-huh. Right lady, you go ahead and lecture me. Real people don''t follow the rules of standard grammar all the time, nor should they. It''s a bit like writing a sonnet all the time versus free verse. The sonnet has a beautiful and structured appeal, but there is only so much you can do inside a static system. There is no reason why language cannot be artistically "messed up" for creative purposes.

That said, do I turn in a paper to a professor and try to justify a spelling mistake like the above? NO! Adhereing, at least for the most part, to a standard grammar and spelling system keeps communication working. If I turned in a poem and used an unorthodox word, or even coined a new term in a critical piece, I would not expect that to be marked "wrong." It''s very easy to get a pole up your rear about grammmar, I do it as well. But I try to remember that the idea of "proper English" is something of an illusion that will change no matter how hard I try to stop it.

 

[perry]

Hmmm....

I have a tape of a talk by noted author Robert Kiyosaki of the Rich Dad - Poor Dad series of books (and I don't think any of his books have not made some "best selling" list somewhere).

During the talk he describes how he was approached for writting advice by a person who wanted to publish their book. He reviewed her material and offered that he did not think it would sell as written - and suggested changes. To which she replied that her writing and grammer was impecable, unlike his books.

His reply was that he wrote best selling books - not best written books. That he focused on the message - and not how it was specifically delivered.

And with that - might I suggest that most of you might benifit from reading "Rich Dad - Poor Dad (subtitled "What the rich teach their kids about money - that the poor and middle class do not!), and Cashflow Quadrant. Other books in the series may or may not appeal to you - but those two are pure money and financial basics that most people have never been taught.

Perry

 

[rainbowtrout]

yep, perfect writing is not necessary to sell books. But I''m not at all in accord with the sentiment that well-written books are bad because they don''t make the most money...

that would take the discussion on a whole different tack even further away than Iran, though--what is the definition of art, or literature. (aesthetics, right? )

 

[Rank Amateur]

Date: 4/25/2006 4:25:02 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
very funny, batman...


ETA: tee hee, I ALWAYS misspell that one without spellcheck! Caught it!

Cought ''em both didja? Know harm no fowl!

 

[rainbowtrout]

yup

But while I only miss "grammar" once in awhile, I ALWAYS miss "definitely"--in fact, I think I just misspelled it again!


I've been doing that one wrong for years; no correcting it now.