OMG! Sweet mother of...

[galeteia]

... fools and LIWs, THANK YOU!

He talked to his parents today. While they aren't thrilled with his choice of wife-to-be, they have agreed to support him. *weeps in relief* So presumably his father WILL be our joint sponsor, enabling us to start the paperwork. They might even help out with the immigration costs (we're looking at at least 1-2k for filing fees and document costs) if we're lucky.

The bad news? His mother is trying to dictate what my e-ring will be!

And it's NOTHING like what I want. Oh gawd. I was worried she'd turn out like this.

Still. SUCH a huge relief. They have us over a barrel with this one, with such huge leverage. I felt like the clock had turned back 200 years, where my marriage was dependant on the decision of someone's father!

Anyway, just had to come on here and let out a heary squee of relief.

 

[galeteia]

Did I mention this came about from his mother''s rant about him going to hell for ''living in sin'' with me? He used it as an opening to bring up our plans to marry.

 

[aussiegirl23]

Galateia,

Pushy FMIL already? Oh goodness, this is not the way to start! Make sure your ring is um, YOURS, and YOUR choice... not hers : )

Best of Luck... and Congratulations on the steps forward you''re taking!

Aussiegirl : p

 

[galeteia]

Date: 7/12/2006 12:35:40 AM
Author: aussiegirl23
Galateia,


Pushy FMIL already? Oh goodness, this is not the way to start! Make sure your ring is um, YOURS, and YOUR choice... not hers : )


Best of Luck... and Congratulations on the steps forward you''re taking!


Aussiegirl : p

Oh yes. Apparently the FIRST thing she did was start making proposal suggestions, and then haul him upstairs to show him her ring ideas.

And she also wants to have the wedding in HER backyard. So sweet, so generous, so ripe for UTTER CONTROL over my wedding....

No doubt she will counter my protests that I want time to save up money and plan my wedding so my Canadian guests can come (like my mother) by insisting we have it in her backyard right away.

I plan on killing time before my wedding by DIYing as much as I can. People don''t knit because yarn is cheaper than scarves!

 

[galeteia]

LOL!

Apparently my FF was also hauled off to look at family rings. When asked to described them, and their diamonds, he said one was ''small'' but another was ''much bigger than most other engagement rings he''s seen'' and when pressed for details (is it a solitaire? Metal Colour? Size of stone?) on the second ring, he said the metal was ''silverish'', it was a ''single diamond'' and as for size, he said because he wasn''t ''into diamonds'', he didn''t notice how big the stone was!

Men!

We need DETAILS, dangit!

 

[bee*]

Oohh that FMIL sounds like a nightmare-but at least you''re making some progress with the in laws. Make sure that you ff gets you the ring you want.

 

[ephemery1]

Gala, maybe you''ve mentioned this in the past, but why are his parents not thrilled with you? I''m so sorry to hear of the bad blood... I really hope you can resolve things before the actual "union" takes place!

But if FMIL is offering her yard, suggesting proposal ideas, maybe contributing to immigration costs and even donating an heirloom ring... maybe she actually approves of you more than you realize? Those all sound like pretty nice things for a FMIL to do! Even if there were issues in the past, is it possible she has adjusted to the fact that she will be gaining a new daughter-in-law, and is maybe a little bit genuinely excited for you guys?

Either way, congrats on entering this new phase in your relationship!!

 

[galeteia]

Date: 7/12/2006 11:10:39 AM
Author: ephemery1
Gala, maybe you''ve mentioned this in the past, but why are his parents not thrilled with you? I''m so sorry to hear of the bad blood... I really hope you can resolve things before the actual ''union'' takes place!


But if FMIL is offering her yard, suggesting proposal ideas, maybe contributing to immigration costs and even donating an heirloom ring... maybe she actually approves of you more than you realize? Those all sound like pretty nice things for a FMIL to do! Even if there were issues in the past, is it possible she has adjusted to the fact that she will be gaining a new daughter-in-law, and is maybe a little bit genuinely excited for you guys?


Either way, congrats on entering this new phase in your relationship!!

Thank you, everyone! I am so very relieved!

I posted about my FMIL''s views on me in one of gypsy''s threads about her FMIL. It''s not that she doesn''t like me, per se, it''s just ... well.

Let me put it this way: they had very specific ideas about what they wanted in a daughter-in-law. They wanted a local girl, preferrably from their church, who would graduate from highschool and get married and have their granbabies right away. She''d be a totally stay-at-home mom who lives to take care of her children and their son. She should be meek, biddable, and very religious, in order to bring their straying son ''back into the fold''. She would certainly be a virgin, preferrably without any serious previous relationships. She would be someone to bring their son back to the church, and tie him down near them.

Needless to say, the last thing they wanted was me: a grown woman, from another country, educated, career-minded, liberal, secular, strong-willed, opinionated, and their son''s intellectual equal. They don''t know that I won''t/can''t have kids yet. We are going to dodge that bullet until we''re safely married. My FF and I are ideally matched for one another, and has gotten thumbs-up from everyone who is important to me. But his parents only see further evidence that their son has ''strayed''.

I twisted myself into knots for the three days I was with them, trying to be as sweet and gentle and innocuous as possible. I didn''t talk about anything serious/controversial. I talked a great deal about my mother and the values she raised me by, because my mother is a member of the Canadian version of their church. (Totally different views on nearly everything, but they didn''t need to know that.) I walked on eggshells for THREE DAYS. (He was down doing his interview in Texas) I tried to show them that even though the circumstances under which my FF and I met were unusual, I was still a ''real'' person who lived by a moral code and who cared deeply about their son.

Apparently, the fact that I cared so much about my FF was my ''saving grace''. Lovely. Apparently I am such a horrible prospect for a DIL that I need a ''saving grace''.

I try not to let it get to me. But it does. How can I not be hurt that I don''t measure up to their standards, and that my best efforts weren''t good enough? My brain can argue logic all it wants, but it still hurts. I can only imagine how he must be feeling; to have his mother tell him she''s a failure because he made the choices he did.

I won''t deny that my FMIL is eager for the proposal and wedding. Right now, her son''s ''immortal soul'' is on a one-way ticket to hell for ''living in sin'' and the only thing that can save him is marriage, STAT.

They really are very warm-hearted people. They are just struggling with some very entrenched views and expectations. I know that one day they''ll recognize how happy he is, and that I''m not leading him down the path of depravity and dammnation. But until then, it hurts!

 

[ephemery1]

Gala, that does sound like a tough situation and it is obvious you''ve put a lot of thought into it, and really made an effort to make things as smooth as possible with your future in-laws. And I can certainly understand why your feelings would be hurt if they are saying things to you about "not masuring up to their standards". I guess I''m just wondering if it''s possible their views are changing on you a bit? From a completely objective point of view, it sounds as though, at the very least, they''re excited about the wedding... and most families with hard, fast, staunch, unchangeable opinions on their children''s mates are NOT that accomodating and agreeable when it comes to joining them together for life! Even in the name of their son''s "immortal soul".

It might help to consider that their initial reaction to you, whether it was directly stated or merely implied, was based more on the IDEA of you than you personally. Every parent has hopes and dreams for their children, and they are certainly allowed to be disappointed if those dreams aren''t realized... just as long as they get past that disappointment and learn to accept their child''s independence and love them anyway (and their mates!). As you said, they probably mean well... and if they are truly the Christians they claim to be, hopefully they''ll recognize the importance of being open-minded in this situation... and you''ll be able to be open-minded about them as well.

I am a strong believer that perspective is everything... and sometimes perspectives grow cloudy when we feel personally offended, and become highly sensitive and hurt by that. Thinking of your future in-laws as fanatical control-freaks can sometimes create a self-fulfilling prophecy... but thinking of them as people who hold different beliefs and values than you, but still love the same man you do and want the best for them (even if their definitions of "best" differ from yours!), can sometimes help you find a more stable, genuine common-ground.

Good luck!

 

[galeteia]

Date: 7/12/2006 1:15:47 PM
Author: ephemery1
Gala, that does sound like a tough situation and it is obvious you've put a lot of thought into it, and really made an effort to make things as smooth as possible with your future in-laws. And I can certainly understand why your feelings would be hurt if they are saying things to you about 'not masuring up to their standards'. I guess I'm just wondering if it's possible their views are changing on you a bit? From a completely objective point of view, it sounds as though, at the very least, they're excited about the wedding... and most families with hard, fast, staunch, unchangeable opinions on their children's mates are NOT that accomodating and agreeable when it comes to joining them together for life! Even in the name of their son's 'immortal soul'.

It might help to consider that their initial reaction to you, whether it was directly stated or merely implied, was based more on the IDEA of you than you personally. Every parent has hopes and dreams for their children, and they are certainly allowed to be disappointed if those dreams aren't realized... just as long as they get past that disappointment and learn to accept their child's independence and love them anyway (and their mates!). As you said, they probably mean well... and if they are truly the Christians they claim to be, hopefully they'll recognize the importance of being open-minded in this situation... and you'll be able to be open-minded about them as well.


I am a strong believer that perspective is everything... and sometimes perspectives grow cloudy when we feel personally offended, and become highly sensitive and hurt by that. Thinking of your future in-laws as fanatical control-freaks can sometimes create a self-fulfilling prophecy... but thinking of them as people who hold different beliefs and values than you, but still love the same man you do and want the best for them (even if their definitions of 'best' differ from yours!), can sometimes help you find a more stable, genuine common-ground.


Good luck!

You really hit the nail on the head here. My FF explained, back when I was first distressed about it, that it wasn't 'me' they disliked, but what I represent and what I stand for. I could certainly understand that. He has sheltered them against the reality of who he is successfully until now-- he just finished his masters, so he's been away from home for two degrees. Meeting me brought their suspicions and fears home to roost.

Your delicate way of pointing out that my perspective may be clouded by my feelings and fears was lovely-- and I sincerely mean that! And you are right about the dangers of the self-fufilling prophecy.

I think that part of the reason why I was so shocked and hurt is that I blithely came to these people with an open heart and mind, even though they have certain beliefs that I really disagree with. I was imagining that since I was willing to put differences aside and accept them because they were important to him, they'd do the same for me. Surely they would be eager to meet the woman who made their son so happy? And when they met me with fear and dissapointment, it was really a blow-- I'd built a wall of realism and cyncism to protect my mushy interior over the years, and had dropped it completely when it came to my FF. So I was unprepared for my reception, which was silly of me, I suppose.

Still, one can't go around preparing for the worst all the time!

ETA: I just found out my FMIL is saddened by my feeling that she dislikes me. There is hope! She wants to get to know me better via email-- what do you think of that idea? My FF says he is 'neutral' on it, which doesn't help matters much.

 

[TravelingGal]

Gala, don''t take this the wrong way, but I have to wonder if you are setting up a rough road a head of you.

As you know, I am sympathetic toward what you are going through re: immigration. I am glad that you are finding lots of info on the site I linked for you...that''s great!

However moving to another country (and one you don''t really care to move to, no less) is a challenging thing. Coupled with the fact that you will be getting married (also a change) and that finances are an issue for you both doesn''t bode too well for you guys on stress-factor.

Couples primarily argue about finances and family, and it seems like both will be an area of worry. I know you say you are poor now, but will you have a job lined up before you move? Make sure you check out how long you will be unable to work after you enter the U.S. My cousin married an Australian girl. Granted, they did it the "wrong" way with her coming over as a tourist and then getting married (vs applying for fiance visa first), but she had to wait a good 9 months before they granted her a work permit. If you are going the fiance visa route, I think it should be better.

Hopefully your FILs will grow to appreciate and like you. But if they don''t, I''ll be the first to say that the Ms. Polite ruse does not last very long. That will put your man in a tough position if he has a good relationship with his parents.

Sorry if I sound negative...I don''t mean to be. But the more my love for my man matures, the more I realize that on many days love is not enough.

 

[ephemery1]

Date: 7/12/2006 1:45:28 PM
Author: Galateia

Date: 7/12/2006 1:15:47 PM
Author: ephemery1
Gala, that does sound like a tough situation and it is obvious you've put a lot of thought into it, and really made an effort to make things as smooth as possible with your future in-laws. And I can certainly understand why your feelings would be hurt if they are saying things to you about 'not masuring up to their standards'. I guess I'm just wondering if it's possible their views are changing on you a bit? From a completely objective point of view, it sounds as though, at the very least, they're excited about the wedding... and most families with hard, fast, staunch, unchangeable opinions on their children's mates are NOT that accomodating and agreeable when it comes to joining them together for life! Even in the name of their son's 'immortal soul'.

It might help to consider that their initial reaction to you, whether it was directly stated or merely implied, was based more on the IDEA of you than you personally. Every parent has hopes and dreams for their children, and they are certainly allowed to be disappointed if those dreams aren't realized... just as long as they get past that disappointment and learn to accept their child's independence and love them anyway (and their mates!). As you said, they probably mean well... and if they are truly the Christians they claim to be, hopefully they'll recognize the importance of being open-minded in this situation... and you'll be able to be open-minded about them as well.


I am a strong believer that perspective is everything... and sometimes perspectives grow cloudy when we feel personally offended, and become highly sensitive and hurt by that. Thinking of your future in-laws as fanatical control-freaks can sometimes create a self-fulfilling prophecy... but thinking of them as people who hold different beliefs and values than you, but still love the same man you do and want the best for them (even if their definitions of 'best' differ from yours!), can sometimes help you find a more stable, genuine common-ground.


Good luck!

You really hit the nail on the head here. My FF explained, back when I was first distressed about it, that it wasn't 'me' they disliked, but what I represent and what I stand for. I could certainly understand that. He has sheltered them against the reality of who he is successfully until now-- he just finished his masters, so he's been away from home for two degrees. Meeting me brought their suspicions and fears home to roost.

Your delicate way of pointing out that my perspective may be clouded by my feelings and fears was lovely-- and I sincerely mean that! And you are right about the dangers of the self-fufilling prophecy.

I think that part of the reason why I was so shocked and hurt is that I blithely came to these people with an open heart and mind, even though they have certain beliefs that I really disagree with. I was imagining that since I was willing to put differences aside and accept them because they were important to him, they'd do the same for me. Surely they would be eager to meet the woman who made their son so happy? And when they met me with fear and dissapointment, it was really a blow-- I'd built a wall of realism and cyncism to protect my mushy interior over the years, and had dropped it completely when it came to my FF. So I was unprepared for my reception, which was silly of me, I suppose.

Still, one can't go around preparing for the worst all the time!

ETA: I just found out my FMIL is saddened by my feeling that she dislikes me. There is hope! She wants to get to know me better via email-- what do you think of that idea? My FF says he is 'neutral' on it, which doesn't help matters much.

Gala, you sound like a passionate and sensitive person... a tough combination to reconcile within yourself... I know it well! We want to believe that all people are inherently good and thoughtful and open-minded and understanding, but when those expectations aren't met, it's hurtful and frustrating... on a very internal, lasting level. After years of building walls for protection but still ending up hurt... and often letting my intense feelings override rational thinking... I made a conscious effort to begin seeing things as objectively as possible instead. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't! But in a situation you absolutely can't control (like who becomes your in-laws!), I think all you can really do is deal with things as open-mindedly as possible. Don't give in to the temptation to expect the worst, but don't let rose-colored glasses slip down over your eyes either... just accept that you are two very different people with one major thing in common: her son and your BF. And if she managed to produce the man you love, surely there is SOMETHING reasonable and worthwhile about her. I don't mean to be naive... but I do believe that this FMIL relationship can work for you if you approach it the right way. She may never be your best friend... but I would be willing to bet from the aforementioned gestures that she WANTS to accept you as her daughter-in-law... so that's already a positive step!

As for emailing, I honestly think it's a great idea... a nice forum for casual, innocuous but genuine conversation. As for your fiance, sounds like maybe he's still resolving himself to his own differences with his parents, so is hesitating to get overly involved at this point. Not a problem... I just think you will breathe a huge internal sigh of relief if you establish some sort of positive communication that lets you create a common ground with your FMIL, while still being your true self. Email could help you do that. Keep us posted!

 

[galeteia]

Update:

The email approach is going beautifully!

We tread carefully and lightly, with emphasis on how much we both love my FF and how we want him to be happy. It all seems very heatlhy and positive, and I tentatively suggested she might be willing to talking about some of the ''girly'' stuff I''ve been ''daydreaming'' about, like rings, bouquets, and dresses. I mentioned that my FFs eyes start glazing over whenever I get excited about ''pretty things'', and it would be wonderful to have someone to talk about pretty things with.

It thrilled her to death, and she said after raising two boys, she''s desperate for some girliness. The best part? Apparently my FF told her that I, too, am not ''frou-frou'' and to her, ''simplicity is elegance'' and I nearly danced for joy. So our taste is not so far off that we will want TOTALLY different things for the wedding.

All in all, things are going amazingly well and far better than I expected. I extended an olive branch, and it seems to be received with gl;adness.

Just thought I''d pass on the news!

Ephemery, thank you for all your excellent advice!

 

[bee*]

thats great news Galateia! Hopefully you can form a better relationship with her. Its always a plus when you get along with the FMIL

 

[galeteia]

ACCK!

I just realized, as I was helping my sweetie sift through the apartment listings online for the town he''ll be going to for his PhD this fall (he is down there in Texas right now, looking) that he is searching for what will become OUR apartment. Eeek!

I didn''t realize he planned to find a place and stay there for his entire Doctorate. I''m suddenly anxious to give my opinion (since this will be my home for at least three years) but I don''t want to interfere; this is his apartment for school, and having to factor in my needs too will just distract him and make him stress about it.

What should I do? It''s his right to pick an apartment, but this will be my home too. Should I say anything? I don''t want him to worry about pleasing me.

 

[mia15]

Ooh, I''m for chiming in on the place. Yes, it will feel a bit awkward at first, but it''s so much preferable to having to live in an apartment you don''t like, because no matter what, it''ll show.

What kind of place you live in will have a huge impact on your day to day lives. It sounds like the two of you will have to deal with all sorts of things and it''ll be so great to have a cozy place to come home to.

Good luck!

 

[galeteia]

What about giving him very general requirements?

Like plenty of natural light so I can paint, and floors that are easy to clean? Can anyone chime in on what sort of general requirements I should ask for?

I know he''ll do well on the kitchen, because he loves to cook, so I don''t have to worry about that.

I''m nervous about this... I won''t get to see or choose the apartment that will become my home.

Any tips?

 

[bee*]

I''d let him know some of the things that you would like as well-afterall, it will be for the two of you

 

[plantationcatt]

So many things I wanted to type back as I read your post, and nearly all have escaped me. I remember this: I''m sorry there has been such tension! Good luck. And it sounds like it is getting much better. Usually "girly" stuff is something that is a good icebreaker. As for the apartment, you''ll live there so you get a say!

I was going to say "a snowball''s chance..." about letting her pick your ring, but if "simplicity is elegance", well you never know, haha! keep us posted, and best of luck in the meantime!

 

[galeteia]

Update:

I''m feeling so angry and frustrated. Things seem to be petering out on her part already, except for the subtle references to big issues, leaving me to do all the ''legwork'' on the issue.

I am not a tactful person (this will be no surprise to the ladies of PS!) by nature. I mean well, but I am really straightforward, blunt, tell-it-like-it-is kind of person. I''ve listened to the complicated dance my housemate does with her extended family, and I''m awed. The hidden meanings, the diplomatic double-talk, the passive-aggressiveness-- I don''t know how she does it. I would go insane. I don''t do well with the ''white elephant in the room'' scenerio.

But that''s exactly what I''m being forced to do. I have to mince mince mince around topics while still referring to them in lieu of addressing them directly. I have to infuse my sentences with information and subtext, because I can''t address things openly, but I STILL have to address them. I have had to pull guilt-trips!! I feel like I''m selling my soul, almost. I''m getting better at this, and it worries me. Honesty is SO important to me, and after corresponding with his mother, I understand why my FF LOVES how blunt and honest and tactless I am. I just get to the heart of things, without interest in drama or verbal fencing.

Writing these emails is such a long and laborious process for me-- I spent 1 hr and 43 minutes on the last one, and it was only about seven to ten paragraphs!! I can''t just ''write'' I have to ''craft'' the sentences and phrasing carefully. I''m getting so sick of this mincing around.

But I could handle it, if after pouring my energy into these emails, she wrote me back in A) a TIMELY manner (not two days later) and B) put SOME effort into them. But no. She just says something vapid and then drops a stink bomb into my lap and runs, leaving me to deal with it.

And I''m discovering that I''m actually really angry at my FF for misleading me on how religiously conservative his parents REALLY are. I feel like he fed me to the wolves. And thanks to me going in totally unprepared for what they are actually like, I''m now trying to scramble out of the hole I unwittingly dug myself into.

If I had known just how extreme they were, I would have handled the situation totally differently. Now I''m backpeddalling like crazy, resentful of that fact, and frustrated that his mother hasn''t backed up her declaration of intent with ACTION.

Just needed to vent. Any comments/advice would be welcome, even if you tell me I''m being totally unreasonable to be upset.

 

[bee*]

Hey Galateia, I have the exact same personality as you and have no tact at all but the thing that I have learnt is that with some people, especially the in laws, there are just some things that it is better not to talk about with them. Ive been lucky in that D''s parents are lovely and have always been great to me, however I am not sure how much effort I would go if they were not. You might have to accept in the long run that you might never have a good relationship with the FMIL, but your boyfriend will have to realise that too and I think its important that he takes your side in it. You are doing a lot of work to try and make things better but your FMIL doesnt seem to be putting in the work as well. Maybe try and email her less and see will she actually mail you for a change. Im not sure what advice apart from that I can give you. Just make sure that your relationship stays strong and try and not let it affect your relationship

 

[galeteia]

Date: 7/16/2006 7:22:03 PM
Author: bee*
Hey Galateia, I have the exact same personality as you and have no tact at all but the thing that I have learnt is that with some people, especially the in laws, there are just some things that it is better not to talk about with them. Ive been lucky in that D''s parents are lovely and have always been great to me, however I am not sure how much effort I would go if they were not. You might have to accept in the long run that you might never have a good relationship with the FMIL, but your boyfriend will have to realise that too and I think its important that he takes your side in it. You are doing a lot of work to try and make things better but your FMIL doesnt seem to be putting in the work as well. Maybe try and email her less and see will she actually mail you for a change. Im not sure what advice apart from that I can give you. Just make sure that your relationship stays strong and try and not let it affect your relationship

Thank you-- it''s good to hear that there are other people out there who don''t mince well. You''re right about me needing to let go and accept that they may never grow to like me for who I am. My FF does stand behind me, but I try to make it as easy as I can for him by not taking out my frustration with his parents on him. That''s why I come here!

Generally, I''ve been waiting until she emails me back before I email her again. I once emailed her again with a link to the pseudo-engagement photos, because I thought she''d like to see them, and she did reply mere hours after that.

I guess I used the right ''bait''.

At this point, I think I may very well decide not to put any more effort into it until she does. Maybe the next time she emails me back I''ll wait for several days before I respond! I''d happily just ingore the two of them (his parents) and not stress myself out, but I feel like our immigration papers are being held hostage, you know?

 

[Fancy605]

I don''t have much advice other than to try to make the best of things and look forward to when it will be just the two of you. It sounds like the e-mailing is a good idea though--even if it is troubling for you sometimes.

BUT, I do think that venting here is a pretty good idea--because it seems like it''s better to get out any anger here than to go off on your future MIL, right?

Good luck appartment shopping, maybe your FF can go look at places and take some digi photos and e-mail them to you? Or maybe you can look at floor plans on line.

 

[ephemery1]

Hi Gala... sorry to hear the emailing has been frustrating. My initial thought... my future MIL comes across very differently on email than in person, as do many people who weren''t brought up emailing and IMing and PSing like we were! In one recent email she wrote to my FI and I, even my FI was mildly insulted at the tone we both perceived... but when he asked her about it, she had NO idea she''d come across that way and felt awful. So maybe take your FMIL''s email communication (or lack of!) as lightly as possible... and consider that your 7-10 very well-constructed paragraphs may actually be intimidating to her, especially if she''s not used to communicating that way. And what comes across as vapid to you, might not have been her intent at all. Just a thought. I''m not trying to be the annoying eternal optimist here... I just know that sometimes simple acceptance can take a LOT less effort than overanalyzing and anxiety... ya know?

As for the apartment, I think it makes complete sense that you would have some input into it, as it will be just as much your home as his. But I definitely feel for you on this one... my FI''s current apartment (owned by his parents...ugh...even more awkward territory to navigate!) will eventually be mine as well, until we can afford to buy a house on our own together someday. Knowing this, it has been really tough for me to know how much to participate when he and his parents would make joint decisions about furniture, flooring, window treatments, etc, over the past few years. My environment is really important to me, and I know I will NOT be happy living in an apartment where I feel like a guest... I need some touches of "me" in there, and it will probably be a difficult transition when I do move in and try to establish that. But you are in a good position to establish those needs right now with your future fiance, and share in the apartment-hunting process enough to ensure you end up with a place that will be YOURS as a couple, and not just his.

 

[mia15]

Oh dear, I''m sorry it''s been like that.

Remember, though, it''s okay not to like your MIL. It''s even okay to have very minimal contact with them. It''s so nice when they become like your family too, but they''re really his family.

We can''t all have great in-laws. We have to be polite and nice to them, but it''s not necessary to go above and beyond. Sometimes we have to detach and just think about other things.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 7/16/2006 3:32:12 PM
Author: Galateia
Update:



Just needed to vent. Any comments/advice would be welcome, even if you tell me I''m being totally unreasonable to be upset.

Ok, you asked for comments, I''ll give you a few.

You say you don''t like people who mince words. Since you are one of those people, I hope you don''t mind if I am the same. Please take the tone to be direct, but not malicious.

I think you live in the "World according to Galateia."

"But that''s exactly what I''m being forced to do. I have to mince mince mince around topics while still referring to them in lieu of addressing them directly."

Who is forcing you exactly to be this fake person? I''m interested to know.

"But I could handle it, if after pouring my energy into these emails, she wrote me back in A) a TIMELY manner (not two days later) and B) put SOME effort into them. But no. She just says something vapid and then drops a stink bomb into my lap and runs, leaving me to deal with it."

Timely according to whose standards? As Ephermery said some people aren''t as comfortable with email as others. Some only check once a week. She could be sending you emails quite quickly by her standards. Two days is perfectly acceptable to get a reply, especially since this is CASUAL correspondence and not business emails. I don''t know what the woman said in her emails, but from what I know about you, it''s quite possible that if someone isn''t as "deep" as you are, you consider them vapid.

"I feel like he fed me to the wolves. And thanks to me going in totally unprepared for what they are actually like, I''m now trying to scramble out of the hole I unwittingly dug myself into."

Well then honey, you''d better start talkin'' to him. Nothing like layerin on the bitterness to start a soon-to-be engagement off on the wrong foot.

"My FF does stand behind me, but I try to make it as easy as I can for him by not taking out my frustration with his parents on him. That''s why I come here!"

That''s commendable, and venting is certainly acceptable and encouraged here on PS. But you really need to talk to him, because sooner or later, coming on to PS and asking for advice, encouragement, reinforcement isn''t going to be enough...not to mention that people''s patience does wear thin on the internet because they don''t know you and aren''t really emotionally invested in you.

"I once emailed her again with a link to the pseudo-engagement photos, because I thought she''d like to see them, and she did reply mere hours after that. I guess I used the right ''bait''."

Something is a bit disconcerting about this statement. As if you are trying to fish reactions/response from this woman instead of just letting the relationship build itself in due time?

"I''d happily just ingore the two of them (his parents) and not stress myself out, but I feel like our immigration papers are being held hostage, you know?"

I think this speaks volumes about your attitude. Are you really concerned with building a relaionship with this woman? Or are you just putting on the facade for now until they pay for all your immigration processes? How awful is that? They are not holding anything hostage...YOU and your FI approached THEM and asked them to help out. You claim honestly is SO important to you, yet you are being deceitful as to why you are trying to form a relationship with his mother. The bottom line is you are putting up with it because YOU NEED THEM TO PAY YOUR WAY. You have practically said so in the above comment. Will you continue this charade when all is done and you are finally with your man in the U.S.?

And speaking of being with him, I think you are not getting much help with the apartment issue from some because how are we supposed to know what you need in an apartment? What is so stressful about just saying "Honey, if you can find an apartment with X, Y and Z because I would like it for X reason would be great. If it doesn''t happen, don''t worry, I know you do your best to think of me?"

Honestly, you seem to come here only looking for agreement, and when people don''t agree, you get defensive and take it personally...so much so that on another post you state that you think all those people haven''t forgiven you. I''m sorry if I am not like the others that only want to offer you words of encouragement. That doesn''t mean I don''t want to encourage you at all...I certainly do.

But I am not going to mince words either!

 

[galeteia]

Date: 7/16/2006 9:24:56 PM
Author: TravelingGal

You say you don''t like people who mince words. Since you are one of those people, I hope you don''t mind if I am the same. Please take the tone to be direct, but not malicious.


And speaking of being with him, I think you are not getting much help with the apartment issue from some because how are we supposed to know what you need in an apartment? What is so stressful about just saying ''Honey, if you can find an apartment with X, Y and Z because I would like it for X reason would be great. If it doesn''t happen, don''t worry, I know you do your best to think of me?''


Honestly, you seem to come here only looking for agreement, and when people don''t agree, you get defensive and take it personally...so much so that on another post you state that you think all those people haven''t forgiven you. I''m sorry if I am not like the others that only want to offer you words of encouragement. That doesn''t mean I don''t want to encourage you at all...I certainly do.


But I am not going to mince words either!

*blink blink*

Well, I appreciate your candor. And no, I''m not going to get all offended. I apologize if it seems like my posts are ''defensive'' in this thread-- it really wasn''t my intention. People brought up details, and I answered them accordingly.

As I stated, I created this thread to vent and get feedback from people. Generally, when I read other people''s threads who state that they are venting, I assume that there is an underlying tone of ''ARGH!'' and take that into consideration.

I''d like to address some of the things you asked/brought up in your post, and I can see how what I said could be interpreted.

"Who is forcing you exactly to be this fake person? I''m interested to know." I feel like the situation is demanding it of me. And as my housemate said, I am still ''me'', but I feel like I am ''translating'' my statements into FMIL-friendly language. That takes a lot of work, and I resent not being able to just be forthright with her. Unfortunately, that would be asking her to stretch too far.

"Timely according to whose standards?" When she was keeping tabs on her son, she was emailing him at least once a day. According to him she checks her email daily. Moreover, she has complained to me (while I was there) that she is bored all day, because she has nothing to do except play scrabble online and wait for her husband to come home, now that her boys are gone. She used to have a part-time job just to occupy some time, but it recently moved her position to a larger store and that wasn''t what she wanted, so she quit. So it''s not like she''s super busy and just can''t get around to writing me back. Like I said, when I sent her those photos, she replied within a few hours, so she checks her email regularly. She just doesn''t respond.

"I don''t know what the woman said in her emails, but from what I know about you, it''s quite possible that if someone isn''t as ''deep'' as you are, you consider them vapid." I consider a comment about dusting to be a bit superficial. She brings up really serious topics, but doesn''t go into them at length. When I respond to those topics, via the mincing method, she doesn''t mention them again.

"Well then honey, you''d better start talkin'' to him. Nothing like layerin on the bitterness to start a soon-to-be engagement off on the wrong foot." You''re right about that. I tried to talk to him about it a few days ago, and he got all upset because he feels that we''ve been over the problems between me and his parents, and doesn''t want to talk about it anymore. And because my meeting them is long since said and done, I feel like it''s not really reasonable to confront him over ''feeding me to the wolves''.

As for wearing people''s patience thin, both ephemery and plantationcatt asked me to keep them posted. So I gave an update. As for me being forgiven for the other thread, I brought up a stupid topic that was upsetting me and talked about it in the wrong place, offended the wrong people, tempers ran high, and I sprung to my own defense, resulting in a huge mess. Do I regret it? Sure. That''s one of the reasons I asked for the thread to be deleted. It wasn''t helping anyone.

"Something is a bit disconcerting about this statement. As if you are trying to fish reactions/response from this woman instead of just letting the relationship build itself in due time?" I wondered whether she was just not checking her email or whether she was avoiding responding. So I sent her pictures of us (she loves to flip through pictures of her son) because I thought that she''d like them, and to see if she did check her email regularly.

I would LOVE to have this relationship build in due time. But right now, I''m the only one doing any building, when it was her idea to do this. That hurts my feelings. Hence, the angry tone of my post.

"I think this speaks volumes about your attitude. Are you really concerned with building a relaionship with this woman? Or are you just putting on the facade for now until they pay for all your immigration processes? How awful is that? They are not holding anything hostage...YOU and your FI approached THEM and asked them to help out. You claim honestly is SO important to you, yet you are being deceitful as to why you are trying to form a relationship with his mother. The bottom line is you are putting up with it because YOU NEED THEM TO PAY YOUR WAY. You have practically said so in the above comment. Will you continue this charade when all is done and you are finally with your man in the U.S.?"

Woah, that''s a pretty tall charge. I think it speaks volumes about my frustration.

First off, it''s my FF''s advice that I just ignore the shenanigans of his family, and not think about them, because it''s stressing me out. He feels that because his parents are they way they are, it''s better to just ignore it, and carry on about my life. That''s what he does. Do I genuinely want to build a relationship with them? Of course! It''s why I am putting all this effort into these emails. I care. I care alot. I have cried over being rejected/disapproved of by his family. If it was in my head, he would have called me on it. Instead he became angry with his family over their actions and attitudes.

Yes, I am putting up with with their prejudice because we need their help to immigrate. They will not be ''paying our way''. We are hoping they will extend us a loan, and we will pay it back. We don''t want to do it that way, because history has shown such leverage to be fully and throughly used as a tool of control.

I would rather be in a place where she and I were meeting on equal footing. I would feel the sting less if I didn''t feel like the paperwork was being dangled over my head.

The bottom line is I''m just really, really hurt. I''m hurt by her insincerity, I''m hurt that she isn''t happy over who her son chose, even though she admits that I make him happy. I''m hurt that she has asked to me to build a relationship between us, but so far, it''s been entirely one-sided.

As for the apartment issue, that''s solved. He went ahead and chose an apartment the next day, so I had no input. All I can do is trust him and hope for the best. I did tell him that my home will be where he is, and that''s more important to me than the layout of the kitchen. And it is. I''m sad that I won''t be able to paint in the place he chose, because there is carpet everywhere. Maybe I can find a nook nearby outside that isn''t too windy, and paint outside when the weather is nice.

I created this thread to get some advice, and I got some excellent advice indeed, and I am thankful. I took their advice to heart. Like I said previously, I did completely get defensive and take it personally with that thread. So did a lot of other people. And you know, I learned some important lessons.

I also appreciate that you didn''t mince words. The trouble with bluntness on the internet is that unless you warn people first, it''s easy to sound harsh.

I will think about what you said.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I have no idea why I read this thread as I rarely enter this forum. But I need to ask you a question about something that bothers me, Galateia. You may never be close with your in-laws, but millions of people have been there, done that. How many of us are blunt and tell our in-laws exactly how we feel about everything? For that matter, how many of us talk that way to our employer? I think being cordial and keeping peace is important in all relationships, and just know you aren''t going to necessarily agree with or win over everyone in your life. I''d just recommend living as far away from your in-laws as possible.

But what really bothers me is your fiance not even seeking your input into the apartment he chose. And particularly if he knows you paint, one would think he would have considered that. I just feel like couple need to be making certain decisions with input from the other, and that would include where to live and major purchases such as cars, etc. It is one thing for him to ignore his parents and carry on with his own life, but it is quite another not to include you in important decisions. I''d get that kind of thing discussed before the wedding if it were me.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 7/16/2006 11:36:07 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I have no idea why I read this thread as I rarely enter this forum. But I need to ask you a question about something that bothers me, Galateia. You may never be close with your in-laws, but millions of people have been there, done that. How many of us are blunt and tell our in-laws exactly how we feel about everything? For that matter, how many of us talk that way to our employer? I think being cordial and keeping peace is important in all relationships, and just know you aren''t going to necessarily agree with or win over everyone in your life. I''d just recommend living as far away from your in-laws as possible.


But what really bothers me is your fiance not even seeking your input into the apartment he chose. And particularly if he knows you paint, one would think he would have considered that. I just feel like couple need to be making certain decisions with input from the other, and that would include where to live and major purchases such as cars, etc. It is one thing for him to ignore his parents and carry on with his own life, but it is quite another not to include you in important decisions. I''d get that kind of thing discussed before the wedding if it were me.

Hmmm. That''s a good point. I am also very careful how I say things to my bosses, but luckily, I don''t see them very often and can speak more candidly (to a point!) with my supervisors. I''m happy to say that we will be able to follow your recommendation, because we''ll be living in Texas for the first four years, and they live in Kentucky. Plenty far away for me! And if she wants to drop me a little line now and then, I''ll be happy to respond with a light reply. Right now, it feels like ''the pressure is on'', but I know that''s just temporary.

As for the apartment, I''m not really sure what to think. He was there with his father, so that might have coloured things. He did pick a place that was along a major bus route so I would be able to use the public transit to get to work, and it''s nearby an awesome little asian market so I can putter off and get groceries without being dependent on him to drive me.

He knows I paint, but I don''t think he necessarily knows what painters need, because he doesn''t do it himself. I should have spoken up and told him what to look for instead of worrying that I was overburdening him with my needs and demands. When I asked him what about the apartment he liked, he said it''s location and the fact that it has ''four walls and a roof'' so I decided I wouldn''t bug him. I suspect that going househunting with his father was probably pretty tense. And it will be his apartment, and he was working with a two-day timeline in which to find a place. I didn''t want to add to his load under the circumstances, and by the time I''d decided to speak up, he''d already found the place.

A home is what you make of it, I guess, and I''m determined to do just that.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 7/16/2006 10:42:17 PM
Author: Galateia

Date: 7/16/2006 9:24:56 PM
Author: TravelingGal

You say you don''t like people who mince words. Since you are one of those people, I hope you don''t mind if I am the same. Please take the tone to be direct, but not malicious.


And speaking of being with him, I think you are not getting much help with the apartment issue from some because how are we supposed to know what you need in an apartment? What is so stressful about just saying ''Honey, if you can find an apartment with X, Y and Z because I would like it for X reason would be great. If it doesn''t happen, don''t worry, I know you do your best to think of me?''


Honestly, you seem to come here only looking for agreement, and when people don''t agree, you get defensive and take it personally...so much so that on another post you state that you think all those people haven''t forgiven you. I''m sorry if I am not like the others that only want to offer you words of encouragement. That doesn''t mean I don''t want to encourage you at all...I certainly do.


But I am not going to mince words either!

*blink blink*

Well, I appreciate your candor. And no, I''m not going to get all offended. I apologize if it seems like my posts are ''defensive'' in this thread-- it really wasn''t my intention. People brought up details, and I answered them accordingly.

As I stated, I created this thread to vent and get feedback from people. Generally, when I read other people''s threads who state that they are venting, I assume that there is an underlying tone of ''ARGH!'' and take that into consideration.

I''d like to address some of the things you asked/brought up in your post, and I can see how what I said could be interpreted.

''Who is forcing you exactly to be this fake person? I''m interested to know.'' I feel like the situation is demanding it of me. And as my housemate said, I am still ''me'', but I feel like I am ''translating'' my statements into FMIL-friendly language. That takes a lot of work, and I resent not being able to just be forthright with her. Unfortunately, that would be asking her to stretch too far.

''Timely according to whose standards?'' When she was keeping tabs on her son, she was emailing him at least once a day. According to him she checks her email daily. Moreover, she has complained to me (while I was there) that she is bored all day, because she has nothing to do except play scrabble online and wait for her husband to come home, now that her boys are gone. She used to have a part-time job just to occupy some time, but it recently moved her position to a larger store and that wasn''t what she wanted, so she quit. So it''s not like she''s super busy and just can''t get around to writing me back. Like I said, when I sent her those photos, she replied within a few hours, so she checks her email regularly. She just doesn''t respond.

''I don''t know what the woman said in her emails, but from what I know about you, it''s quite possible that if someone isn''t as ''deep'' as you are, you consider them vapid.'' I consider a comment about dusting to be a bit superficial. She brings up really serious topics, but doesn''t go into them at length. When I respond to those topics, via the mincing method, she doesn''t mention them again.

''Well then honey, you''d better start talkin'' to him. Nothing like layerin on the bitterness to start a soon-to-be engagement off on the wrong foot.'' You''re right about that. I tried to talk to him about it a few days ago, and he got all upset because he feels that we''ve been over the problems between me and his parents, and doesn''t want to talk about it anymore. And because my meeting them is long since said and done, I feel like it''s not really reasonable to confront him over ''feeding me to the wolves''.

As for wearing people''s patience thin, both ephemery and plantationcatt asked me to keep them posted. So I gave an update. As for me being forgiven for the other thread, I brought up a stupid topic that was upsetting me and talked about it in the wrong place, offended the wrong people, tempers ran high, and I sprung to my own defense, resulting in a huge mess. Do I regret it? Sure. That''s one of the reasons I asked for the thread to be deleted. It wasn''t helping anyone.

''Something is a bit disconcerting about this statement. As if you are trying to fish reactions/response from this woman instead of just letting the relationship build itself in due time?'' I wondered whether she was just not checking her email or whether she was avoiding responding. So I sent her pictures of us (she loves to flip through pictures of her son) because I thought that she''d like them, and to see if she did check her email regularly.

I would LOVE to have this relationship build in due time. But right now, I''m the only one doing any building, when it was her idea to do this. That hurts my feelings. Hence, the angry tone of my post.

''I think this speaks volumes about your attitude. Are you really concerned with building a relaionship with this woman? Or are you just putting on the facade for now until they pay for all your immigration processes? How awful is that? They are not holding anything hostage...YOU and your FI approached THEM and asked them to help out. You claim honestly is SO important to you, yet you are being deceitful as to why you are trying to form a relationship with his mother. The bottom line is you are putting up with it because YOU NEED THEM TO PAY YOUR WAY. You have practically said so in the above comment. Will you continue this charade when all is done and you are finally with your man in the U.S.?''

Woah, that''s a pretty tall charge. I think it speaks volumes about my frustration.

First off, it''s my FF''s advice that I just ignore the shenanigans of his family, and not think about them, because it''s stressing me out. He feels that because his parents are they way they are, it''s better to just ignore it, and carry on about my life. That''s what he does. Do I genuinely want to build a relationship with them? Of course! It''s why I am putting all this effort into these emails. I care. I care alot. I have cried over being rejected/disapproved of by his family. If it was in my head, he would have called me on it. Instead he became angry with his family over their actions and attitudes.

Yes, I am putting up with with their prejudice because we need their help to immigrate. They will not be ''paying our way''. We are hoping they will extend us a loan, and we will pay it back. We don''t want to do it that way, because history has shown such leverage to be fully and throughly used as a tool of control.

I would rather be in a place where she and I were meeting on equal footing. I would feel the sting less if I didn''t feel like the paperwork was being dangled over my head.

The bottom line is I''m just really, really hurt. I''m hurt by her insincerity, I''m hurt that she isn''t happy over who her son chose, even though she admits that I make him happy. I''m hurt that she has asked to me to build a relationship between us, but so far, it''s been entirely one-sided.

As for the apartment issue, that''s solved. He went ahead and chose an apartment the next day, so I had no input. All I can do is trust him and hope for the best. I did tell him that my home will be where he is, and that''s more important to me than the layout of the kitchen. And it is. I''m sad that I won''t be able to paint in the place he chose, because there is carpet everywhere. Maybe I can find a nook nearby outside that isn''t too windy, and paint outside when the weather is nice.

I created this thread to get some advice, and I got some excellent advice indeed, and I am thankful. I took their advice to heart. Like I said previously, I did completely get defensive and take it personally with that thread. So did a lot of other people. And you know, I learned some important lessons.

I also appreciate that you didn''t mince words. The trouble with bluntness on the internet is that unless you warn people first, it''s easy to sound harsh.

I will think about what you said.

Thanks Galateia for taking the time to respond. I think it was a fair one.

Re: comments on dusting, etc. You just started communicating with her. People don''t talk about deep subjects right off the bat. They make small talk. Yes, dusting is "superficial" small talk, but that doesn''t a person shallow. It''s normal! Give her time before you get frustrated. And you DO have to do the building...you are the one needing their help and will be a part of their family. Is that fair? No. But I don''t think you can expect 50/50 from her. She made the effort by suggesting email communication and being open to you. You have to take the ball and run, which obviously you are trying. Life is full of more frustrating things than email turnaround times (I am not trying to be sarcastic here) and this woman will certainly throw more curve balls your way. The frustration you are having will be good practice in dealing with her.

And I didn''t mean you were defensive in this thread (which you were not) but that you do have a history of doing so. Obviously you know that and are moving on and trying, which is great.

They must love their son and want him to be happy, otherwise they wouldn''t be helping with your immigration? What easier way to keep someone they disapprove of out of their lives by refusing to help her get into the country? Whatever their biases and narrow-mindedness, I think their sponsoring you must be for a good reason...not just trying to get their son married to anyone to bring him back from the dark side, as you made mention of before. If they really thought you were that bad, they would think you WERE the dark side and of no help to their son. So take heart that they are helping, and do your best to stretch yourself to form that relationship. Despite what some people say, you DO marry your love''s family as well.