OMG! Sweet mother of...

[yellowsparkles]

This is my first time in the forum and I got caught up in this topic.

Can I ask a couple of questions? Galateia, how old are you guys? Why is his parents picking out his appartment in TX? Are they paying for his schooling, living expenses , etc? Who is paying for the wedding? If his parents are paying for everything, then I think the FMIL has some say. If you two are on your own financially, then I think you two need to decide what you want since you two are paying for it. I remember you said that his parents are controlling.... but if your fiance is on his own financially, his dad picking out apts is a bit much. Will it be this way when you get married?

Same thing for the ring.... who is paying for it? Fiance? then he picks it out. IF he can''t do it without mommy''s help, then i think you have a problem. If he is just consulting her for ideas - for a woman''s perspective that is OK. He should be also talking to you to find out what you want. However, If the FMIL is paying for the ring, and you don''t like her taste... then I think you guys can get engaged without a ring. I did. We bought a house instead and the ring came later. Getting engaged is not about the ring. It is about a lifelong commitment between two people.

Sounds like you both need to grow up a bit.

I don''t mean this to be harsh in anyway. I am just concerned that if his parents are paying for EVERYTHING, then you have to ''bow down'' to them a bit. It''s not going to be easy.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 7/17/2006 3:14:29 AM
Author: yellowsparkles
This is my first time in the forum and I got caught up in this topic.


Can I ask a couple of questions? Galateia, how old are you guys? Why is his parents picking out his appartment in TX? Are they paying for his schooling, living expenses , etc? Who is paying for the wedding? If his parents are paying for everything, then I think the FMIL has some say. If you two are on your own financially, then I think you two need to decide what you want since you two are paying for it. I remember you said that his parents are controlling.... but if your fiance is on his own financially, his dad picking out apts is a bit much. Will it be this way when you get married?


Same thing for the ring.... who is paying for it? Fiance? then he picks it out. IF he can't do it without mommy's help, then i think you have a problem. If he is just consulting her for ideas - for a woman's perspective that is OK. He should be also talking to you to find out what you want. However, If the FMIL is paying for the ring, and you don't like her taste... then I think you guys can get engaged without a ring. I did. We bought a house instead and the ring came later. Getting engaged is not about the ring. It is about a lifelong commitment between two people.


Sounds like you both need to grow up a bit.


I don't mean this to be harsh in anyway. I am just concerned that if his parents are paying for EVERYTHING, then you have to 'bow down' to them a bit. It's not going to be easy.

I don't mind answering your questions at all.

First off, I'm 25, he's 24. He's off to do his PhD this fall. He has student loans, his parents didn't pay for it. Because he is a grad student, he has been offered grants and funding that will cover his living expenses and school costs.

His dad went there with him because he offered to pay for my FF's ticket to Texas if he could come with him. I'm not sure if you've read the thread that's hot right now about 'managing your money and cutting costs', but a plane ticket for someone who is trying to scrimp and save is some pretty major dough.

Preferrably, we'd rather not have his parents pay for anything. Unfortunately, after so many years of university, including grad school, we just don't have the kind of money immigration needs just lying around. So, we would like to temporarily borrow some from his inheritence from his grandfather, who recently passed away. His parents have control of that money, even though it is meant for him. I believe they plan to use to to pay off his student loans, which is a sensible use for it, although that's not necessarily what my FF wants it to go to.

My FF, like myself, is very frugal and financially responsible. We believe in honoring our debts and living within our means. Who is paying for the wedding? We are, which is why the 'wedding' will happen about two years after the legal marriage, so we can time to get a handle on our finances.

If his parents decide that they want certain things for their son's wedding, like a large guest list comprised of many of their own friends/peers, that's fine with me, if they are willing to accomodate that cost.

The bolded comment I find a little ironic, because that's exactly the advice I give couples. I don't care about getting the bauble. I never have. I've told my FF that I would marry him on a sidewalk wearing a paper bag. The concern of my original post was that his mother had very strong opinions about what we couldn't and couldn't do for the e-ring. I objected to this, because it's our choice, not hers. We want to do things on our own, and part of that plan was to spend a small bit of money on a 'placeholder' e-ring (a simple cheap setting with a simulant) until the day in the far-off future where we are so well-off that we can consider getting a real diamond. We are now going to give that up as well, so we need to borrow a little less from his parents for immigration costs.

I'm a little confused as to how I gave the impression that his parents are paying for everything?

I assure you the very last thing he wants is "mommy's help". He has been on his own for the last six years, and is amazingly patient with a mother who is just beginning to realize he's grown up. I'm not sure if you read the rest of the posts, but I did mention that it turns out that his mother is just really excited about the 'girly stuff', but at the outset, it just looked like she was trying to take over.

If these impressions of my situation were based primarily on my early posts on this thread, I would urge you to read the later posts as well, as they provide some important details and a more accurate overall picture. My early posts can be summarized as: "Aaaaaagggh!!! Eeeeeek!!!" and as such aren't really representational of the situation.

I suspect that the reason his parents maximize what leverage they have is because they get so little of it. It's not often that they get to have much of a say in their son's life, and they tend to make the most of it when they can. He's very independent and doesn't respond well to guilt or passive-aggression. Also, he is a psychologist, so they don't manage to sneak much by him. (Neither do I, for that matter!)

I agree that money comes with implied obligation, and because we are not comfortable not being in control of our own lives, we prefer to do things on our own. Right now, immigration has forced us to ask his parents for their help, but with the understanding that it is a loan, not a gift. The primary thing we need is not money at all, but an Affidavit of Support. Even if they offered to gift us with the money, we would prefer to do it as a loan. We both want to pay our own way.

I think that involvement in your child's life is not something that should be 'bought'. I am more than happy to discuss ring ideas with his mother, and ideas about the wedding. But it will be just that, hypothetical discussions between two women who like talking about pretty things. I would be willing and honored to accept a family diamond, if that is what she wants and the stone is something I would feel comfortable with (I'm not a big bling person), but we would pay for the resetting or repair of the setting ourselves.

I hope that answers your questions and gives you a clearer sense of the situation.

 

[yellowsparkles]

THANKS for filling me in. I read my message after I posted it and was like... oops, I should have put more thougt into what I wrote.
I guess in the moment of "AARGH"... I was instantly reminded of a co-worker and her wedding ordeal. She was 25 and and just got her MBA. She was more into what "SHE" wanted and expected her parents to pay for everything. They did and her wedding was $75K. I couldn''t figure out why she wouldn''t want to take the money and pay off her credit card debts and buy a house.... anyway her world is more about the SHOW (big ring, big wedding).

Sorry that was off the point. I am glad to hear that you guys have it all under control. Believe me, I understand the financial burdens of going to grad school and trying to get on with life. That is why my husband lived together for a long time before getting married. We had to feel that we were financially ready.
The good thing about your situation is that there is distance between you and your in-laws. I really think it is all going to work out with you all. Yes, take into consideration what they want - but do what you and your F want.

Congrats on your engagement and good luck.

 

[bee*]

Hi again, the apartment thing would kind of bother me again that he didnt ask for your imput in what you would llike. If its bothering you at all I would say it to him-not give out to him as such as whats done is done but just mention that you would have loved somewhere to paint or something like that and that next time you would love an imput too as men have a habit of just carrying on if you do not interupt them and say what you want. I just find it strange that he didnt ask you is there anything that you want in an apartment as it will be for the two of you.
I think its great that you''re venting on here as it takes a lot of the edge off when you do email your FMIL or talk to your FF. I think though that you should sit down and talk with him too though. If I was in the same situation I wouldnt be able to keep quiet and not say these things to my FF as if something is bothering me I tell him straight away. I just feel that if you dont mention about the apartment, dont mention about his FMIL and other things that are bothering you, they just build up and you can really end up being angry at him. Hes your partner and you should be able to discuss things, especially as he thinks that things are getting better with your FMIL, tell him that they aren''t. You need support too and he should be there giving it to you, only he cant properly as he doesnt know about these issues

 

[galeteia]

Hey yellowsparkles, I was glad to explain the situation. The first post, which was basically a shriek of dismay, could easily be interpreted that way.

75k?!!

Oh my god. Not to insult anyone out there who is planning a lavish wedding, but I personally wouldn''t be comfortable with spending that much money on a wedding. In fact, I plan to take advantage of my background in event planning and graphic design to do the lion''s share of the preparations, like the invitations and centerpieces, etc. Ironically, my mother bartered for calligraphy lessons from a master scribe when I was in my late teens, so after I brush up a bit, I''ll even be able to get my invitations with calligraphy. Who knew those lessons would come in handy?

I probably wouldn''t be all ''into'' having fancy invitations and elaborate centerpieces if I wasn''t trying to find some way to kill time for the two years before our wedding! As a theatre designer, I will even be able to handle the arrangement/layout of the tables and seating, the lighting, acoustics, decoration... a lot of the details that most people are overwhelmed by are just ''my thing''. I''m having my dress made, and even though I won''t be making it myself (I''m too much of a perfectionist to handle the pressure I''d put on myself) I have designed a simple gown that will be reasonably easy to make. I would do it myself, but my hands would be shaking...

And costuming and fine tailoring really aren''t close enough for me to feel confident to do it myself.

You''re right that it is important to take into consideration what they want, but not be overwhelmed by it. I understand that his family wants to be part of this, and while I am not willing to let them take over my wedding, I am willing to make some compromises. My mother, when I first told her that I might be looking at getting married, and was a little nervous that his parents would try to take over, she said "Promise me, right now, that you won''t make a single decision about your wedding that puts me first. It''s about what you and he want, it''s your show. Not your parents''. Promise." Have I mentioned I have the best parent in the world?

But weddings are also about family, and I''m willing to strike that balance between making compromises and standing by what we want.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 7/17/2006 7:25:04 AM
Author: bee*
Hi again, the apartment thing would kind of bother me again that he didnt ask for your imput in what you would llike. If its bothering you at all I would say it to him-not give out to him as such as whats done is done but just mention that you would have loved somewhere to paint or something like that and that next time you would love an imput too as men have a habit of just carrying on if you do not interupt them and say what you want. I just find it strange that he didnt ask you is there anything that you want in an apartment as it will be for the two of you.

I think its great that you''re venting on here as it takes a lot of the edge off when you do email your FMIL or talk to your FF. I think though that you should sit down and talk with him too though. If I was in the same situation I wouldnt be able to keep quiet and not say these things to my FF as if something is bothering me I tell him straight away. I just feel that if you dont mention about the apartment, dont mention about his FMIL and other things that are bothering you, they just build up and you can really end up being angry at him. Hes your partner and you should be able to discuss things, especially as he thinks that things are getting better with your FMIL, tell him that they aren''t. You need support too and he should be there giving it to you, only he cant properly as he doesnt know about these issues

We really are alike, bee! I am so bad at keeping quiet about things that bother me; I let them out right away so they don''t fester.

We actually did have a really good talk last night (alas, over the computer, because he''s 500 miles away

) about all this. It was a really productive discussion, which makes me grateful for him all over again! It''s such a blessing to be with someone who doesn''t shy away from the ugly stuff and who is committed to digging it up, dealing with it, and letting it go.

Apparently his mom has been excitedly talking about the emailing back and forth, which was a surprise. (What back and forth?! It''s practically been one-way!) In addition to all the struggling she''s been doing (and I can totally understand that) she''s a little intimidated by how polished my emails are. (Polished? At 1.75 hours, those puppies are buffed to a high shine!!) Since she loves playing scrabble online, I suggested that if we can find one that allows for IMs while you play, we could chit-chat a sentence at a time while the other person is planning their move. I figured that would be less pressure.

What I came away with from that discussion is that his dad is looking into the immigration stuff, and that his mother is excited about talking about girly stuff, even if her actions would say otherwise. I also discovered that his idea of ''fundamentalist'' and mine are very different. To me, his parents definitely classify as hardcore conservatives. However, because they don''t dance with snakes or besiege clinics, he considers them to be ''moderates''. Hence the source of the misunderstanding.

As for the apartment... well, considering he had his dad breathing down his neck, he did as much as he could. He did pick a place close to the asian market, which was sweet of him. He also tried to find a place that was a real apartment, not a ''student home'' and a place we could make our own. It does have a lot of nice natural lighting, and he knows I like that about my own apartment.

And when I get there, if I hate it so much that it would make me miserable (hard to imagine, because he''ll be there) I am sure he would be willing to move. As it is, he had two days to find an apartment, and that''s a lot to ask of someone. So I''m feeling ok about it.

 

[bee*]

Cool-glad that you got some things sorted. It could just be his mothers way and she thinks emailing every couple of days is fine. I would probably do the same as you are and persevere with it as I hate it when people dont get along with me without knowing me properly so its a good chance for her to get to know you. Hope it continues to get better!

 

[galeteia]

Update:

Things have been going reasonably well, and I have discovered something useful: Emails about flowers, cooking, invitations, and weather are answered 2x a day. Any mention of a more ''serious'' topic, and the reply is two days in coming. Aha!

Her last email was about how she knows we are good people, but she is seriously distressed that our ''lives and relationship are not centered around Christ''. My housemate wandered in, peeked over my shoulder, and went all bug-eyed, saying "He considers his parents MODERATE?!" Ah well. She is trying her best, I think. Apparently despite how it looked, I actually was winning her over; when my FF got home from househunting in TX she couldn''t stop talking about me, and started being nice to him again!

So my latest email is adorned with images of lillies, and a discussion of a few flowers that might make unusual, but meaningful, wedding flowers. He talked to her on the phone after I sent it, and apparently she''s feeling sick, so I may send her a little note expressing my sympathies and hope that she recovers quickly.

And as for the apartment:

While having a serious conversation with my sweetie last night, he confessed that he was trying to find a place where I would be happy! He said there wasn''t a lot of choice, and he was trying so hard to anticipate which of the few choices I would be happiest in. He chose a place with a lot of natural light because he knows how I dream of having a house filled with plants. He sounded so distressed about the whole thing... I cried, because I didn''t know he already was trying to find a the right place for me. I felt bad for ever thinking that he wouldn''t be putting my needs first.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 7/19/2006 7:29:08 PM
Author: Galateia
Update:


Her last email was about how she knows we are good people, but she is seriously distressed that our ''lives and relationship are not centered around Christ''. My housemate wandered in, peeked over my shoulder, and went all bug-eyed, saying ''He considers his parents MODERATE?!''

Yes Galateia, I think it''s fair to consider that particular statement moderate. From a secular perspective, it may not seem so. But if they were crazy right wingers, I assure you, they would not be helping you out, for fear that you were the devil or something. Anyone who would consider themselves legimately a Christian would have those feelings, because it''s something that is important them. I would think that you of all people would know what it''s like to have something important to you and be passionate about it, yet not be a fanatic, right?

By your housemate''s statement, I could make a sweeping statement that she''s a left winged tree hugging liberal. Don''t assume that just because someone''s views are different from yours that it makes it extreme.

 

[ephemery1]

Date: 7/19/2006 8:31:44 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 7/19/2006 7:29:08 PM
Author: Galateia
Update:


Her last email was about how she knows we are good people, but she is seriously distressed that our ''lives and relationship are not centered around Christ''. My housemate wandered in, peeked over my shoulder, and went all bug-eyed, saying ''He considers his parents MODERATE?!''

Yes Galateia, I think it''s fair to consider that particular statement moderate. From a secular perspective, it may not seem so. But if they were crazy right wingers, I assure you, they would not be helping you out, for fear that you were the devil or something. Anyone who would consider themselves legimately a Christian would have those feelings, because it''s something that is important them. I would think that you of all people would know what it''s like to have something important to you and be passionate about it, yet not be a fanatic, right?

By your housemate''s statement, I could make a sweeping statement that she''s a left winged tree hugging liberal. Don''t assume that just because someone''s views are different from yours that it makes it extreme.

TravelingGal, I''m not sure what you do for a living... but you would be a DARN good counselor... I am so impressed by your objectivity.

Gala, I think of "moderate" as a political descriptor... whereas it sounds like you''re referring more to your FMIL''s religious beliefs? I grew up in a Christian household with parents who centered their lives around Christ in the way your FMIL does. That upbringing gave me a strong foundation for forming my own personal beliefs and an even stronger appreciation for people who have lived their lives according to their faith in a higher power. My beliefs may be different from my parents, but I will ALWAYS respect them for their own.

It may not be your intention at all, but I really get the sense from many of your posts that you have little respect for your future in-laws, and I hope that''s not true. It seems that the primary thing that bothers you about your FMIL is her continual judgement of your viewpoint/beliefs... but you seem to be judging her just as harshly (maybe more so!) on hers. Again, just the way it comes across to me... for what that''s worth.

 

[fisherofmengirly]

Being a Christian myself, as well as my parents, I am fairly certain they would react in a similar way if I were to announce my plans to marry a man who didn''t share that faith. They wouldn''t disown me (that is extreme), but they would have reservations and would express them, which I think is what most parents do, no matter what it is that they are concerned about, be it faith, ability to handle finances responsibly, cultural differences, etc. All of these things are reasons for parents to be concerned. However, with time, people grow on people, and I also know my parents would rather me be with a man who treated me well who didn''t have the exact same views on religion rather than being in a relationship with a man who had more similar views and didn''t treat me as well or cherish me as I''d like to be.

I can see how it may feel a little like you''re being attacked or ostracized for being *not* their ideal, and I hope you and your boy can work through it and just prove to your future in-laws how much you love one another, because ultimately, that''s what parents tend to care about the most.

Good luck!!

 

[galeteia]

Hmmm.

Actually, I do know plenty of Christians who do not feel that way, including my mother and the other women who are part of her biblie study group, so my idea of ''moderate'' comes from there. I admit that is a totally individual bias, but it is natural to base one''s ideas on their own experiences, I think. The Christians that I am most familiar with do consider themselves ''moderates'' and while I understand that compared to ''crazy right wingers'' (quoting TG) my FILs are very moderate, but compared to the Christians I know, they are very conservative.

It is true that I somtimes struggle to respect my FILs. I know that is terrible of me, but to hear that they told my FF, on the day after his Master''s graduation, that regardless of whatever accomplishments he has made, he is a failure because he has lived in sin... It just rips my heart out to think that a parent would say such a thing to their child after s/he has struggled and succeeded at such an endeavor. To them, nothing he has done or achieved matters, because he is not ''living his life for Christ''. My mother has told me that even if I do not share her beliefs at this time, she can see that I walk with God in my day-to-day life and that she is so proud of everything that I have done. I cry when I remember that he has not heard such words of praise from his own parents.

I really struggle with this. They have hurt my FF so deeply, and when someone hurts someone I love, I tend to go off the deep end. (I am sure this is no surprise) I can understand their pain when they feel that their son has forsaken their beliefs, but I also feel that if they set that aside for a moment they would see that he lives his life in alignment with those core values still. It is my hope that eventually this may happen. They are trying, and I am willing to make this effort with an open heart. I respect her for making such a sincere effort, and how much she is trying to stretch and adjust, and so I feel that this correspondence will be a chance for a healing on both our parts.

I know that they are not extremists, but they are definitely very much more conservative than the ''moderate'' Christians I know.

I hope this explains things a little more, and I will try to dislodge my foot from my throat. Sometimes I say things so thoughtlessly...

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 7/16/2006 3:32:12 PM
Author: Galateia

Any comments/advice would be welcome, even if you tell me I'm being totally unreasonable to be upset.

OK.....here goes: (meant without a trace of malice. I think you all know I'm just plain ole direct and blunt by now.

)

Stop trying to win them over and just be yourself. That's IT. If they like it, that's fine, and if they don't, tough ca-ca. Try to be considerate, sure....but don't try to be someone you're not.

I hate to sound so simplistic and blunt about it, but here's the truth of the matter. You aren't the subservient, religious baby machine they were hoping for, and that's too bad. [If you were, by the way, your FI probably wouldn't want to marry you anyway. He chose you because he loves and wants what YOU are......and you should be true to that.] It's easier to be yourself (which you can't make a mistake on) instead of trying to be someone you aren't and constantly falling short in the effort.

Whether or not THEY (his parents) come to terms with it or not is their problem, not yours.

Now is the time to set the tone you want to live by......so I'd strongly suggest you are cordial but firm. Be receptive to hearing her suggestions, and try to give a little ground where it's not a huge departure from what you intrinsically want.....but be prepared to say "This element or that one is really important to me and I have to follow my instincts on this one." (That's a nice way of saying 'this is non-negotiable'.

)

Having said all of that.......temper the above with the following:

You are going to be assimilated into *their* family, so yes, that does require a bit of effort and trying to get along on your part, too. I don't think it's acceptable to take it to the extreme of walking on eggshells or not being yourself......but it seems she wants the girlie, bonding-type chatter. It may not be the most stimulating, but where's the harm? You get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. A smart woman knows when to go for the honey, and when to whip out the vinegar!

Something that you may not have given thought to: I'd bet the reason she shies away from weighty, substantive conversations is insecurity. Maybe she doesn't feel confident enough in her knowledge or in her ability to express dissentive opinions. It sounds to me like the woman's role in that family is 'subservience, don't worry your precious head about the *important* stuff, just talk about baking cookies' type. Of course, I may be wrong about that, but I'm definitely getting that vibe. If so, it's entirely logical that she may not feel skilled at debating differing points of view....she may be the "conflict is always negative" type.

She doesn't sound as empowered and sure of herself as you, so try to take that into account when you interact with her. Ask for her advice and experience on something she's good at (preparing a certain kind of meal, etc.) so that she feels she has something to offer. You'd be surprised at how something like that can build a relationship.....genuinely.

I'm like you.....so you can imagine that my MIL has her hands full. I'm nice, but I've drawn a couple of veiled lines in the sand, and she's smart enough to know that's what they are. Setting boundaries nicely is part of managing a relationship and mutual respect. Good luck to you.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 7/19/2006 10:01:57 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 7/16/2006 3:32:12 PM

Author: Galateia


Any comments/advice would be welcome, even if you tell me I''m being totally unreasonable to be upset.

OK.....here goes: (meant without a trace of malice. I think you all know I''m just plain ole direct and blunt by now.

)


Stop trying to win them over and just be yourself. That''s IT. If they like it, that''s fine, and if they don''t, tough ca-ca. Try to be considerate, sure....but don''t try to be someone you''re not.


I hate to sound so simplistic and blunt about it, but here''s the truth of the matter. You aren''t the subservient, religious baby machine they were hoping for, and that''s too bad. [If you were, by the way, your FI probably wouldn''t want to marry you anyway. He chose you because he loves and wants what YOU are......and you should be true to that.] It''s easier to be yourself (which you can''t make a mistake on) instead of trying to be someone you aren''t and constantly falling short in the effort.


Whether or not THEY (his parents) come to terms with it or not is their problem, not yours.


Now is the time to set the tone you want to live by......so I''d strongly suggest you are cordial but firm. Be receptive to hearing her suggestions, and try to give a little ground where it''s not a huge departure from what you intrinsically want.....but be prepared to say ''This element or that one is really important to me and I have to follow my instincts on this one.'' (That''s a nice way of saying ''this is non-negotiable''.

)


Having said all of that.......temper the above with the following:


You are going to be assimilated into *their* family, so yes, that does require a bit of effort and trying to get along on your part, too. I don''t think it''s acceptable to take it to the extreme of walking on eggshells or not being yourself......but it seems she wants the girlie, bonding-type chatter. It may not be the most stimulating, but where''s the harm? You get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. A smart woman knows when to go for the honey, and when to whip out the vinegar!

Something that you may not have given thought to: I''d bet the reason she shies away from weighty, substantive conversations is insecurity. Maybe she doesn''t feel confident enough in her knowledge or in her ability to express dissentive opinions. It sounds to me like the woman''s role in that family is ''subservience, don''t worry your precious head about the *important* stuff, just talk about baking cookies'' type. Of course, I may be wrong about that, but I''m definitely getting that vibe. If so, it''s entirely logical that she may not feel skilled at debating differing points of view....she may be the ''conflict is always negative'' type.


She doesn''t sound as empowered and sure of herself as you, so try to take that into account when you interact with her. Ask for her advice and experience on something she''s good at (preparing a certain kind of meal, etc.) so that she feels she has something to offer. You''d be surprised at how something like that can build a relationship.....genuinely.


I''m like you.....so you can imagine that my MIL has her hands full. I''m nice, but I''ve drawn a couple of veiled lines in the sand, and she''s smart enough to know that''s what they are. Setting boundaries nicely is part of managing a relationship and mutual respect. Good luck to you.

Wow. Thank you. That was dead-on in so many ways... amazing. Thank you for the excellent advice!

I no doubt will add more to this reply later, but I think I am just going to sit with what you said for a while and think on it more fully. But I wanted to thank you first.

 

[IrishAngel7982]

"You get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. A smart woman knows when to go for the honey, and when to whip out the vinegar!"

I don''t have any more advice Galateia, but think about what Al said. That''s a great quote. All my best!!!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 7/19/2006 10:01:57 PM
Author: aljdewey

Something that you may not have given thought to: I''d bet the reason she shies away from weighty, substantive conversations is insecurity. Maybe she doesn''t feel confident enough in her knowledge or in her ability to express dissentive opinions. It sounds to me like the woman''s role in that family is ''subservience, don''t worry your precious head about the *important* stuff, just talk about baking cookies'' type. Of course, I may be wrong about that, but I''m definitely getting that vibe.

I guess that''s thing...I don''t 100% trust the vibe that Galateia is giving out.

But that is MY problem, not hers.

Anyway, I may be going out on a limb here, but perhaps the reason she shies away form weighty, substantive conversations is because she''s Galateia''s boyfriend''s MOTHER and doesn''t feel comfortable getting into deep conversations with her 20 something FDIL yet after only a week of emails? Some people just really hate getting into it in print.

I do agree with Al that you should be yourself, already.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 7/19/2006 8:58:50 PM
Author: ephemery1

It seems that the primary thing that bothers you about your FMIL is her continual judgement of your viewpoint/beliefs... but you seem to be judging her just as harshly (maybe more so!) on hers. Again, just the way it comes across to me... for what that''s worth.

I 100% agree. That''s probably why her posts don''t ring quite right with me.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 7/19/2006 11:01:58 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 7/19/2006 10:01:57 PM

Author: aljdewey


Something that you may not have given thought to: I'd bet the reason she shies away from weighty, substantive conversations is insecurity. Maybe she doesn't feel confident enough in her knowledge or in her ability to express dissentive opinions. It sounds to me like the woman's role in that family is 'subservience, don't worry your precious head about the *important* stuff, just talk about baking cookies' type. Of course, I may be wrong about that, but I'm definitely getting that vibe.

I guess that's thing...I don't 100% trust the vibe that Galateia is giving out.


But that is MY problem, not hers.

Anyway, I may be going out on a limb here, but perhaps the reason she shies away form weighty, substantive conversations is because she's Galateia's boyfriend's MOTHER and doesn't feel comfortable getting into deep conversations with her 20 something FDIL yet after only a week of emails? Some people just really hate getting into it in print.


I do agree with Al that you should be yourself, already.

I'm still digesting Al's advice, but I did want to comment on the 'deep, weightly, susbtantive' conversations. I don't want to mislead anyone into thinking that we discussing such topics, I just said 'more serious' than the weather, flowers, and what's for dinner. I'm enjoying talking about the weather, flowers, and what's for dinner, actually. I do enjoy being about to discuss 'girly' things with her.

The 'more' serious element I mentioned was that after a number of 'coincidences' she suggested that she and I were 'on the same wavelength' (when it came to flowers and wedding styles) and I agreed, saying that I felt like she and I in fact shared some similarities, like the fact that we both are tender-hearted and care deeply about others. I then complimented her son, and started talking about lillies. There was no intense or substantive discussion beyond that. I agree that even if I felt that we could one day could even talk about such things, and I am not sure we will ever be at that point, it is definitely not appropriate to do so after a week.

Just wanted to clear that up.

 

[galeteia]

So I''ve been thinking things over since last night, and I have come to some conclusions.

I''ve realized I am allowing my anger towards my FMIL over the ''you are a failure'' thing to affect my view too much. I have a very hard time forgiving people who hurt my loved ones. I can readily forgive injuries against myself, but forgiving those who hurt the people I hold the most dear... it''s not easy. I think that those kinds of words said to your children can never been unspoken.

I also recognize that she and I are in exactly the same boat. We both have very srong beliefs and morals that we adhere to, and it would appear on first meeting that many of those morals are in conflict. What I think I have failed to represent in my posts is that as she is warming up to me, I am also warming up to her. I don''t think that comes across in my posts. My frustration and anger and bafflement come through loud and clear, but my growing fondness for her does not.

Al was absolutely right in her guess that my FMIL is beset both by what I would call ''traditional female role'' expectations, coupled with general insecurity. My heart really goes out to her when that comes through; today she worried (by email) that her words of caution about seasonal flowers were ''bossy''. I hastened to assure her I valued her opinions and words of wisdom (and I do), and that I was asking her for her opinion and advice. I think the best compliments are the true ones. I want her to feel esteemed, and make sure I give her honest compliments wherever appropriate.

I just run into trouble when I am reminded of the damage their beliefs has done to their son. I appreciate that she is being open with me, but that reminder makes me see red.

Your comment, Al, about "trying to be someone you aren''t and constantly falling short in the effort" is exactly what my mother said about the situation early on, when I was grieving over their dismay. It''s the things that make me the ''wrong'' DIL that are often the things that make me a perfect match for my FF.

As we get a sense of one another''s taste, I am getting more and more confident that we won''t have the huge battles over wedding details that I was envisioning. I think that we will be able to make many comfortable compromises, which is a huge relief. I will remember the nice way to say ''this is non-negotiable'', though!

I think we are both relaxing at an even rate, which makes things easier. I have been glued to the honey-jar, and I think I will hang on to the vinegar for now. There is no reason to break it out just yet, methinks.

Also, I think we will always shy away from weighty, substantive conversations, and I am fine with that. I would prefer it that way. I think it would just be a recipe for trouble between us, and I really don''t think there is any need to get into it.

"She doesn''t sound as empowered and sure of herself as you, so try to take that into account when you interact with her." This was something I really needed to hear. You are absolutely right about that. Sometimes I forget that not every woman is necessarily as strong as my own mother, who managed raised me on her own without a cent of support (and therefore influence) from my alcoholic abusive father.

Thank you again, aljdewey, for your astute and thought-provoking advice. It has given me a fair bit to reflect on, and I appreciate that.

 

[galeteia]

Ok,

After today's email, my official stance is: my FMIL is the cutest woman on the planet. She's just too sweet for words. I take it all back-- I think we'll be fine.

 

[Fancy605]

Yay! I am glad it is working out. Maybe you will get along despite your very different backgrounds and any past parenting blunders she may have committed at your FF''s expense.

I LOVE it when things work out.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 7/22/2006 1:27:46 AM
Author: Fancy605
Yay! I am glad it is working out. Maybe you will get along despite your very different backgrounds and any past parenting blunders she may have committed at your FF''s expense.


I LOVE it when things work out.

Me too!

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 7/21/2006 10:46:21 PM
Author: Galateia
After today''s email, my official stance is: my FMIL is the cutest woman on the planet. She''s just too sweet for words. I take it all back-- I think we''ll be fine.

Shades. Of. Gray. Shades. Of. Gray.

I''m glad you''re feeling better about the relationship today ... but don''t swing so far on that pendulum that the next awkward comment or delayed email or mention of Jesus has you bashing your head through a freshly painted canvas! Staying CENTERED seems to be something that could be extremely valuable to your well-being. Against your nature, as evidenced heretofore

but a skill & emotional muscle worth developing. Pendulum swinging might be thrilling & dramatic & satisfying now -- but after you hit the walls a few time with gusto & get a little bruised in the process ... middle ground will look like a much more comfortable long-term option.

Off topic - I also saw the mention of people perhaps not forgiving you for your views expressed in a previous heated thread. If you''re referring to me, I just wanted to say that I''ve appreciated your reflection about the topic, as seen in various threads, and don''t hold any hard feelings about the matter. It does, however, color my perceptions of your "take on the world" ... as Travelinggal mentioned "The World According to Galateia". Getting out of a sheltered (university? geographical?) environment where many of your peers have the same political & world views as yourself might increase your tolerance & general awareness of the pure variety of people & places & communication styles & ways of being. Not to mention - the utter fallacy of some of your conceptions. Prepare to be humbled & accepted & misunderstood & adored. ''Cause it''ll all happen.

On the apt -- I''d bet it''s not a four-year lease. If you''re really not happy there, you''ll find a way to move.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 7/22/2006 1:12:55 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 7/21/2006 10:46:21 PM
Author: Galateia
After today's email, my official stance is: my FMIL is the cutest woman on the planet. She's just too sweet for words. I take it all back-- I think we'll be fine.

Shades. Of. Gray. Shades. Of. Gray.

I'm glad you're feeling better about the relationship today ... but don't swing so far on that pendulum that the next awkward comment or delayed email or mention of Jesus has you bashing your head through a freshly painted canvas! Staying CENTERED seems to be something that could be extremely valuable to your well-being. Against your nature, as evidenced heretofore

but a skill & emotional muscle worth developing. Pendulum swinging might be thrilling & dramatic & satisfying now -- but after you hit the walls a few time with gusto & get a little bruised in the process ... middle ground will look like a much more comfortable long-term option.

Off topic - I also saw the mention of people perhaps not forgiving you for your views expressed in a previous heated thread. If you're referring to me, I just wanted to say that I've appreciated your reflection about the topic, as seen in various threads, and don't hold any hard feelings about the matter. It does, however, color my perceptions of your 'take on the world' ... as Travelinggal mentioned 'The World According to Galateia'. Getting out of a sheltered (university? geographical?) environment where many of your peers have the same political & world views as yourself might increase your tolerance & general awareness of the pure variety of people & places & communication styles & ways of being. Not to mention - the utter fallacy of some of your conceptions. Prepare to be humbled & accepted & misunderstood & adored. 'Cause it'll all happen.

On the apt -- I'd bet it's not a four-year lease. If you're really not happy there, you'll find a way to move.

Thank you for your post, Deco.

You're definitely right about me being a person of extremes, and being centered is something I struggle to do. I've got plenty of bruises to my name-- trust me, that middle ground looks mighty tasty already! I just seem to have trouble getting there... I agree 100% that it's 'a skill & emotional muscle worth developing'. I don't actually enjoy drama (hard to believe, I know

) and I try to defuse situations as much as I can in person. I don't seem to have the knack of doing it online yet, but I'm trying.

I know that my FMIL and I are just starting out on this long road to a good relationship, but I got the feeling over the course of the week that there is light at the end of the tunnel. That was a huge relief. I recognize that there will be those times where a faceplant through a canvas will look very tempting, but I have more faith in her now. It also really helps that since we have been emailing, she has 'started being nice again' to my FF, according to him. That defuses some of my anger towards them over their treatment of their wonderful son. Things are just warming up all over; she's relaxing, I'm relaxing, and my FF is relaxing. He's so relieved.

I wonder if one of the reasons why I'm so 'hyped up' over all this is that I'm also processing some pretty hefty adjustments, like marriage and moving to another country. Because we aren't following the more typical steps of dating, engagement, and marriage via a wedding, things are getting lumpy and rushed; it feels like we're going about everything 'fanny'-backwards, andd I'm upset about that, so anything related to these overall issues ends up being an outlet for me to wrestle with the bigger problems. Or that the bigger problems heighten my overall reaction to things. Maybe Ephemery can comment on that possibility.

I guess because I've lived in so many places across Canada that I haven't really considered myself 'sheltered'; I've moved around often and lived in some fairly wildly different cultural areas. (Like Northern Ontario isolated small town vs. the Hell's Angel's belt in Montreal) I did a fair bit of travelling and working in the 'real world' before I came to school (I was 21 when I started) and to be honest, it will be a relief to get out of the alternate reality which is University Life. I'm looking forward to living in such a different place, although my FF is a little worried. (I'd be too, if I had me for a FF!) I've told him that it will be a good exercise in keeping my mouth zipped.

And thank you for not holding any hard feelings (and telling me so!)-- I have been trying to learn from my past mistakes.

 

[Mara]

so i just skimmed but here are some thoughts.

you sound very extreme, dramatic, and emotional. i think that is just your personality...that is not a dig, but you just sound 'exciteable'. am i hitting it?

you just started emailing with this woman who doesn't even know you and after a week you are frustrated and sure you will never build a relationship, you could happily ignore them, then in the next post you say she's so sweet so nevermind, you guys will be FINE....shades of gray indeedie!

seriously, all i could think was that on her end she is probably thinking 'oh mah lordie, what has mah son gotten himself into'!!! hehee. just don't start talking to her about how you think America sucks (by the way, that was a joke! ha ha!) and i think you guys will be okay.

i think you just need to take a step back and CHILL OUT WOMAN. i can't even keep up with all the swinging of the pendulum here. rome was not built in a day. it could take years to build your relationship with this woman. it's pretty rare that the favored son in a family ends up with the woman that the parents really were hoping for. prepare to be patient and yes, work on staying centered and honestly, lower your expectations of your correspondence with her. that way you will not feel disappointed.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 7/19/2006 8:31:44 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 7/19/2006 7:29:08 PM
Author: Galateia
Update:


Her last email was about how she knows we are good people, but she is seriously distressed that our ''lives and relationship are not centered around Christ''. My housemate wandered in, peeked over my shoulder, and went all bug-eyed, saying ''He considers his parents MODERATE?!''

Yes Galateia, I think it''s fair to consider that particular statement moderate. From a secular perspective, it may not seem so. But if they were crazy right wingers, I assure you, they would not be helping you out, for fear that you were the devil or something. Anyone who would consider themselves legimately a Christian would have those feelings, because it''s something that is important them. I would think that you of all people would know what it''s like to have something important to you and be passionate about it, yet not be a fanatic, right?

By your housemate''s statement, I could make a sweeping statement that she''s a left winged tree hugging liberal. Don''t assume that just because someone''s views are different from yours that it makes it extreme.

This was such an excellent post! You have great insight Traveling Gal!

I''ll go one step father and say that parents who are very committed to ANY faith are going to have those desires for their children, whether it be Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc. Those with superficial faith or a secular worldview will not particularly care. I respect those feelings because I do have them for my own children. If they marry someone with different beliefs, then I''ll do my best to love them as they are. And I hope they will love me and respect my beliefs as well.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 7/22/2006 4:18:02 PM
Author: Mara
so i just skimmed but here are some thoughts.


you sound very extreme, dramatic, and emotional. i think that is just your personality...that is not a dig, but you just sound ''exciteable''. am i hitting it?


you just started emailing with this woman who doesn''t even know you and after a week you are frustrated and sure you will never build a relationship, you could happily ignore them, then in the next post you say she''s so sweet so nevermind, you guys will be FINE....shades of gray indeedie!

seriously, all i could think was that on her end she is probably thinking ''oh mah lordie, what has mah son gotten himself into''!!! hehee. just don''t start talking to her about how you think America sucks (by the way, that was a joke! ha ha!) and i think you guys will be okay.

i think you just need to take a step back and CHILL OUT WOMAN. i can''t even keep up with all the swinging of the pendulum here. rome was not built in a day. it could take years to build your relationship with this woman. it''s pretty rare that the favored son in a family ends up with the woman that the parents really were hoping for. prepare to be patient and yes, work on staying centered and honestly, lower your expectations of your correspondence with her. that way you will not feel disappointed.

I guess now would be a good time to mention I''m taking up yoga?

Seriously. My best friend (of nearly 12 years) suggested it last week when I was ricocheting off the walls-- metaphorically speaking-- as a good choice for stress-relief. Typical gym-type exercise only revvs me up, allowing me to freak out with even more energy and vigour than ever before! Handy for getting up the motivation to finish that paper, bad for cooling off my brain. So, not necessarily what I need right now.

So, yoga it is. Physical activity with an emphasis on being calm, centered, and relaxed. Exactly what I need.

I would say that yes, generally I am a passionate, intense, and exciteable sort of person. It''s not every day that I derail my ordered life in order to get married and run away to another country, so I''m a little more unhinged lately! My mentor insisted on meeting my FF before he''d believe that I ("You?! MARRIED?! Was that a winged pig whizzing by just now?"

) of all people was getting married.

I was always one of those work-obsessed people who didn''t really ''get'' the love thing. Sure, I had been in lots of relationships, but they were always a distant second to my work. Of course, when ''it'' happens, it''s a bit like being mowed over by train, but in a good way. When you know, you know.

But my life is going through a fairly serious upheaval, and I''m not the kind of person who weathers total upheaval well, I''ve noticed. I can alter, divert, and reconfigure my life fairly painlessly, but this is wholesale upheaval. It''s unnerving to not be in control of my life at the moment.

I am not naive enough to think that everything is ''all fine now'' between me and my FMIL, but I now feel like there is ''light at the end of the tunnel'' which is a vast improvement. It''s been grim from those first three days we spent alone together in her house onward, but things are finally taking an upswing. Hence, my excitement.

I think I''ve adjusted to her idea of ''timely'' and no longer am worried when she goes a few days without replying. And we seem to have found a ''groove'' that takes the pressure off and is doing well for us at the moment. I''m not expecting us to become ''close'' (unlikely) but I think we can become cordial. That''s good enough for me!

 

[Mara]

yoga could be fab for some stress relief! i definitely think as long as you can acknowledge that things could take some time to get where you want them to be then you''ll be fine in the long-term. just try to stay grounded!

 

[galeteia]

Date: 7/23/2006 3:02:36 AM
Author: Mara
yoga could be fab for some stress relief! i definitely think as long as you can acknowledge that things could take some time to get where you want them to be then you''ll be fine in the long-term. just try to stay grounded!

I think so too! Apparently my housemate could use some stress relief herself, and ordered some yoga DVDs that we''re eagerly awaiting.

And you''re right; Rome wasn''t built in a day. I am content to let it happen on its own time, but it''s a relief to see they''ve broken ground and the architects are gossiping.