Opinions on these sapphires please?

[syd]

I went to a local vendor that specializes in emeralds but also deals in sapphires and rubies. Pretty much all the sapphires he had were heat treated, but without other treatments and on the smaller side (1-2 carat). He did call in a couple of untreated sapphires around 4carats for me to look at. I was surprised at how small sapphires look, even 1 carat compared to diamonds. Is that because they are more dense, so for the same weight, the size looks smaller?

Anyway... I've attached pictures of the two candidates. One is lighter and less saturated, and has a larger window. I've attached the dimensions and pricing for both. Can you please take a look and give me your opinion? He said he generally provides a EGL certificate with his gems as its local, and he doesn't need to deal with sending the stones across the border and back. I could ask for an AGL certificate if I do buy from him though... not sure if there would be an extra charge to me for that. What are your opinions on EGL certs?

The lighter sapphire:
4.13 carats, oval, 10.7x8.7x5.2mm, Cdn $6,088 all in.

The darker sapphire:
4.29 carats, oval, 10.7x7.6x6.0mm, Cdn $7,198 all in.

For reference my engagement ring has a 1.5 carat diamond. Granted that its in a halo, but still I expected the 4ct+ sapphires to look much bigger than the diamond. I was disappointed

He had a lot of yummy yummy emeralds. Wish I had taken some pictures of them. He said they were cedar oil treated. Is that an acceptable treatment for emeralds?

Anyway, these are both less than I originally planned to spend... about 10k or so. I asked him if he could get his hands on some natural 5carat sapphires but he said they're hard to come by and his supplier gets the larger stones maybe a couple of times a year.

 

[syd]

Oh I forgot to say... both sapphires are eye clean. How would you describe the colour?

The vendor will send me a few more pictures tomorrow, will post them when I have them.

 

[chrono]

You are correct that sapphires will always face up smaller than a diamond of comparable carat weight due to its density. A 4 carat oval sapphire will measure anywhere from 10 x 8 mm to 11 x 9 mm depending on the cut. My preference is an AGL lab memo, followed by GIA in the US. There hasn't been much information on EGL for coloured stones since stones are generally sent to AGL and GIA due to their experience and expertise in coloured stones. In Europe and Asia, other labs such as Gubelin and SSEF are recommended.

The window in both stones are distracting to my eye. Colour-wise, the skinny oval has stronger saturation but neither are vivid. I don't think the skinny oval can be considered to have strong saturation but it could come close outdoors. Tone looks to be medium light thereabouts, based on the pictures.

 

[syd]

Thanks for your input Chrono, I will ensure I get an AGL cert for whichever stone I ultimately buy.

Still on the hunt... I've decided I NEED a larger stone... a 4 carat won't cut it for the look I'm going for . So there are a few more options I'm looking at. Two are with the same local vendor, one is an oval and one is a cushion. I have a crappy phone picture he has sent, but will be seeing them in person next weekend.

Specs for first two:

Unheated, eye clean
Cushion: 10.7 x 8.75 x 6.1 mm, 5.43 cts
Oval: 11.5 x 9.0 x 6.0 mm, 5.18 cts
I will post better pictures of these when I see them in person.

The second option is this:

6.14ct cushion/oval (a blending of the two outlines); approximately 10-1/4 x 8-3/4mm; unheated, the hue is blue with a very slight purplish modifier. I was initially told it is eye clean, but I see a lot of marks on the surface. Not sure if its just in need of a good cleaning?! This one could potentially be recut to "re-arrange the facets to close the culet, and have them reflect off each other". I'm told this won't affect the length and width, but the depth would be affected but not by much. The recut would likely improve the sparkle and brightness of the stone. However I'm told that a recut isn't necessarily required.

Thoughts???

 

[minousbijoux]

Its easy to recognize the vendor's photos for the last sapphire and I would highly recommend working with them. I would ask, though, since its an unheated sapphire, how much weight would be lost in a recut. Probably not much, but that stone, given that its unheated, will have a considerable price tag associated with it, so you may or may not want to pay for something you will then have cut away.

As for the first two, you are right - it is not easy to make out much about them in that photo.

 

[syd]

Lol can't put anything past you Minou What are your thoughts on a recut, is it required? He said the reduction in weight would be minimal, and for sure not from the length/width. What are your thoughts on the colour? Not sure if you can see the little markings on the stone... its so big on my computer I see every little spec.

Also good to know the vendor is well regarded here

 

[chrono]

You are correct that the picture of the 2 local sapphires aren't enough to make much of anything about them.

The hue of the 6 ct oval is pleasing but the saturation just isn't there. The marks could just be oils and dirt.

 

[syd]

Handshots of the 6 carat oval.

Would love to see it in person before deciding re recut, but since I live across the border in Canada, its just not as easy/cost effective shipping back and forth.

 

[slksapphire]

hi syd,

based on your most recent post, it sounds like a 4-ish ct stone isn't going to cut it. so you are going to have to compromise on color, clarity, cut and/or zoning/extinction to get a stone in the size range you are seeking.

so this becomes a question of preference -- what can you live with?

eta: sorry i'm not commenting on the 6 ct handshots -- i have never figured out how to evaluate stones from photographs so i don't want to give inaccurate opinions!!!!

 

[mochiko42]

Just wanted to jump in and say how much I appreciate this post. For a newcomer to jewelry and gemstones, this has been very educational. Thanks!

 

[chrono]

Perhaps the picture isn't the best but the 6 ct sapphire doesn't rock my boat. I don't know if there is camera shadowing or some sort of obstruction but there are more dark areas than bright areas seen. Whatever blue areas that are bright isn't of strong saturation either. I'm guessing based on your budget and size requirement, something has to give. Perhaps in this case, you are sacrificing colour?

 

[syd]

Yes Chrono, I think you're right I am sacrificing colour. I think I can live with a gem that's bright and has *good* colour, although it may not be top of the line vivid blue. The 6carat is going to be recut tomorrow (just the facets on the pavilion, the girdle and above stays the same), so I'm excited to see what it looks like after.

 

[chrono]

Will you be seeing the sapphire in person? I would prefer to view it in hand to see how much brightness/darkness it shows under various lighting situations and the indoor/outdoor colour shift. Many new coloured stoners are taken aback by how shifty a gem can be, more so when colour is sacrificed.

 

[syd]

Chrono, the gem is on its way to AGL for the report. I will get to see it in hand sometime in January as the lab is closed from the 24th Dec till Jan 2. The recutting/faceting is done and I've attached a new photo. I was pleasantly surprised (probably more like shocked) that the weight only went down from 6.14 to 6.04 due to the technique used!! The window looks completely closed now and the inclusion at the centre can't be seen. Let me know your thoughts on the final result!

 

[syd]

One more....