Organic Milk or Not?

[Haven]

Monnie--

The thought of a cow in our suburban backyard is just plain inspiring. AND the possibility of getting a book out of it? It becomes more and more tempting by the minute . . .

 

[TravelingGal]

We only give everyone in our family 100% organic breast milk straight from the source fresh every day.

 

[davi_el_mejor]

I will only drink organic milk. For one thing, it truly tastes and smells better. Also, it lasts much longer before spoiling! I wonder why that's the case, but it's definitely true. And I just feel it's a better choice, both for me since I'm pregnant, and also for my son. I worry about the hormones and pesticides and other junk in regular milk.

Because it's usually Ultra-Pasteurized.

Have a gander at what that means http://www.musingsofahousewife.com/...etween-pasteurized-and-ultra-pasteurized.html

 

[Gypsy]

I adore milk. I buy organic for a very practical reason: it seems to have longer till it expires. The dates are always several weeks out. And the organic milk (except Horizon which I don't buy anymore) doesn't get funny before it's due date.

That's what matters to me.

 

[Deactivated member 42515]

For me, I feel that organic or not, any milk is bad. I may sound like one of "those people" but the dairy industry is a horrible horrible place. Cows are mistreated all the time and the commercials you watch about dairy farms being family owned are mostly false. I don't want to gross you guys out by going into anything because it's not really my place, but I don't drink milk. The only "milk" I use is almond milk for my cereal.

 

[Gypsy]

I will only drink organic milk. For one thing, it truly tastes and smells better. Also, it lasts much longer before spoiling! I wonder why that's the case, but it's definitely true. And I just feel it's a better choice, both for me since I'm pregnant, and also for my son. I worry about the hormones and pesticides and other junk in regular milk.

Because it's usually Ultra-Pasteurized.

Have a gander at what that means http://www.musingsofahousewife.com/...etween-pasteurized-and-ultra-pasteurized.html

Yikes. Best check that out... what's in my fridge? NOPE!!!! Mine is NORMAL PASTEURIZED (Trader Joe's Organic) and STILL has great shelf life. YAY for Trader Joes. I will watch out for this issue though.

 

[Gypsy]

We only give everyone in our family 100% organic breast milk straight from the source fresh every day.

Those are some impressive udders, in that case!

 

[Imdanny]

Organic milk.

 

[Bliss]

We only give everyone in our family 100% organic breast milk straight from the source fresh every day.

Hahahaha. I know it may seem overboard to some... But this post was typed using a 100% organic keyboard on organic wifi. Wait - is PS organic??? LOL. I wouldn't mind steroid injections for my bling, though.

 

[iheartscience]

We only give everyone in our family 100% organic breast milk straight from the source fresh every day.

Hahahaha. I know it may seem overboard to some... But this post was typed using a 100% organic keyboard on organic wifi. Wait - is PS organic??? LOL. I wouldn't mind steroid injections for my bling, though.

I've heard you don't need to buy organic for diamonds, and that the steroids and antibiotics improve both their appearance and size.

 

[ericad]

We went organic many years ago, for everything that one can possibly buy. In order of preference we try to: 1. buy locally produced organic in order to support our local farmers; 2. grow or produce it organically ourselves; 3. store bought organic; 4. store bought non organic as a last resort.

The daughter of a good friend of mine got her period and started developing at age 9. Her pediatrician told her it's common for young girls nowadays and that it's due to the hormones in our food and they should switch to organic and hormone-free.

Our family actually went dairy-free late last year, but because we live on acreage we're planning to get chickens this summer, and a couple of dairy goats next year, so we'll have our own eggs and milk (and eventually meat from the chickens if I can get up the courage to treat them as livestock and not pet lap-chickens, lol) from organically raised and humanely cared for animals. I mostly eat vegan (not 100%, but make vegan choices about 90% of the time), so the chickens and goats are for my family more than for myself. We do substitute organic soymilk for the now absent cow's milk in our diets, but I'm no great fan of soy either. So I'm trying to work through this and think that raw, home produced goat milk may be the answer

We're also trying to learn about gardening so that we can grow our own produce as much as possible (we planted a mini orchard of various fruit trees, built a hoop house and hope to have some decent veggie gardens going this year).

I'm THIS close to being a Pioneer woman, lol.

In all honesty, I'm really enjoying learning about where our food comes from, how much work (and expense) goes into responsibly producing the food we eat, and derive a lot of comfort from knowing exactly what is in our staple foods and, for the small amount of animal foods we eat, how those animals have been treated. My goal is to become self-sufficient for 50% of the food we eat - wish me luck, lol.

This thread does pose a very interesting question about what happens when organic livestock become ill, since the organic producer is prohibited from using antibiotics. I've never thought about it! I would assume that the sick animal is pulled from production, treated for its illness, then rotated back in at some point or sold. But I don't really know. It probably depends on the dairy - some may treat their animals well and others perhaps only marginally better than non organic dairies. But, since organic dairies can't use medicine, I would think that a sick animal would be swiftly dealt with otherwise it will spread illness to the other animals, which isn't in the farm's best interest.

 

[Pandora II]

Regarding the hormones in milk, it is not just those that are given to cows to increase growth, yields etc, but the natural hormones that are a result of pregnancy that are an issue.

Gestation for a cow is around 9 months. The calves are removed from the mother after 1day (even though they gain weight better and are socially more advanced if left with the mother longer).

40-60 days after calving the cow is bred again, and milked until the 8th month of pregnancy.

The most common oestrogen in cows milk is oestrogen sulphate...

Milk from a non-pregnant cow contains 30 pg/ml of oestrogen sulphate.
Milk from a cow in the first 2 months of gestation contains 150 pg/ml of oestrogen sulphate.
Milk from a cow in the last two months of milking before birth contains as much as 1000 pg/ml of oestrogen sulphate.

Oestrogen sulphates in milk are not destroyed by pasteurisation. One of the main uses for oestrogen sulphate is in the product Premarin (made from mare's milk) used in HRT for menopausal women.

Progesterone is also present in high quantities. The ratio of oestrogens to progesterone in milk from a pregnant cow is roughly the same as the ratios in BCP.

There are some fascinating studies being conducted mainly in Japan - a country where milk was not part of the diet pre-war but became a compulsory part of children's diet post-war.

Anyway, if you want to drink organic milk to avoid hormones, you might want to find out how long the cows are milked into their pregnancies.

I'm not saying people shouldn't drink milk, but I do find it worrying that there is an idea that young children 'must' be drinking milk when so much current research is showing that it's not actually very good for us. In the UK, milk is no longer given out in schools like it used to be when I was a child.

 

[ericad]

Such interesting and important information, Pandora!

We have dramatically reduced our intake of animal protein in our family. The goal is to keep animal proteins at under 10% of our total caloric intake (give or take). My husband and daughter both have an intolerance to cow's milk (causes a terrible cough/tickle in the throat that completely disappeared after removing dairy from our house).

So, if I understand correctly, the natural hormones in the animal are highest during pregnancy (makes sense). I'm seeing how this will apply if/when we keep goats (I'm on the fence as to whether or not we want to even reintroduce animal milk back into our diets or not.) My plan was to never milk the goats during pregnancy - after they give birth, we share the milk with the goat babies and after they're weaned, we'd keep the goat's milk going for a few months before giving her a long break before breeding her again (so the milk would stop and not start up again until she gives birth, so no question of milking during pregnancy, which goes back to the humane treatment and care of animals).

I never realized that cows are being milked during pregnancy - that's very alarming! And the level of natural hormones in the milk wouldn't diminish based on organic versus non organic - organic just eliminates the added growth hormones and antibiotics.

We're the only species that actually drinks the milk of another species. It's really gross, lol. I may stick to "faux" plant milk after all, and just keep the goats as pets and blackberry and brush controllers.

 

[Pandora II]

Cows are generally bred every year.

In Mongolia, a cow is kept with the calf - although not together all day. In the evening, the calf suckles first and then the cow will be milked for human consumption (generally the yield is between 2-7 litres per milking compared with the 12-15 litres in the West) and then put back with the calf for the night.

The cow is not milked after the 3rd month of pregnancy and there is a longer gap between one pregnancy and the next.

Interestingly the age of weaning for children in Mongolia is much later than in the West - children are commonly breastfed for 6 years.

 

[amc80]

I grew up drinking a lot of milk, but don't really drink it any more. We do buy organic- nonfat for me and whole for DH. I mainly use it for cereal or for dipping cookies (in which case I will drink it at the end). I have an occasional latte...and that's pretty much the extent of my milk consumption. DH will drink a glass every night with dinner. He loves the taste and needs the calories, so it works well for him.

 

[MsP]

i'm sure that organic dairies do not allow their cows to suffer with illness. why not contact a local organic dairy and ask them before believing some guy that says organic cows suffer? if you don't have a local organic dairy, you can get in touch with whatever group you buy from. you can also contact an organic association.

Speaking as someone who sees organic and non-organic cows pass through the farm for transport, this is NOT the case.

After seeing too many infected teats going untreated and STILL being milked for human consumption, I'm not sure I'd drink ORGANIC.


I don't really drink milk. A splash in my coffee-- maybe.

 

[ericad]

That's...so...gross...

 

[monarch64]

i'm sure that organic dairies do not allow their cows to suffer with illness. why not contact a local organic dairy and ask them before believing some guy that says organic cows suffer? if you don't have a local organic dairy, you can get in touch with whatever group you buy from. you can also contact an organic association.

Speaking as someone who sees organic and non-organic cows pass through the farm for transport, this is NOT the case.

After seeing too many infected teats going untreated and STILL being milked for human consumption, I'm not sure I'd drink ORGANIC.


I don't really drink milk. A splash in my coffee-- maybe.

Yup, mastitis/other infections...I suppose they figure the cow has 4 teats, what is 1-2 infected ones?

I was really only half-joking when I suggested that Haven look into buying her own cow.

 

[iheartscience]

I don't consume milk on its own (lactose intolerant), but my nieces and nephews all get organic milk due to the hormones/antibiotics issue. That said, I LOVED milk growing up and used to chug glasses of it.

I'm actually doing a 40 day challenge through my gym and have been eating very clean for the past week. I've cut out all dairy from my diet, and am feeling great from it! I've been eating organic meats, veggies and fruits, aside from a slight cheat yesterday when I was forced to eat a few Thin Mints. I actually don't think I'll reintroduce dairy into my diet when the challenge is over.

 

[kenny]

I'm sure a purely organic diet is best.
Still, I don't do that.
If I did perhaps I would not have gotten cancer last year.

The cost and hassle of going pure organic or vegan is huge and I'm just not willing to go there.
I buy near-zero processed foods from the big corporations, boycott fast food chains, and eat only bread that's whole grain, brown rice, lots of tofu, refried beans made with olive oil, and air popped corn, fruits, veges, etc. etc.

We all have to draw our own line, and somewhere I heard that . . . people vary.

About milk . . . I only buy Trader Joe's non fat skim milk.
I drink about a gallon a week.
It is "From cows not treated with rBST."

I don't know how TJ's does it but it but theirs is cheaper than "normal" milk at the supermarkets - which of course IS from cows treated with Monsanto/Eli Lilly's milk and profit-increasing rBST.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I'm sure a purely organic diet is best.
Still, I don't do that.
If I did perhaps I would not have gotten cancer last year.

The cost and hassle of going pure organic or vegan is huge and I'm just not willing to go there.
I buy near-zero processed foods from the big corporations, boycott fast food chains, and eat only bread that's whole grain, brown rice, lots of tofu, refried beans made with olive oil, and air popped corn, fruits, veges, etc. etc.

We all have to draw our own line, and somewhere I heard that . . . people vary.

About milk . . . I only buy Trader Joe's non fat skim milk.
I drink about a gallon a week.
It is "From cows not treated with rBST."

I don't know how TJ's does it but it but theirs is cheaper than "normal" milk at the supermarkets - which of course IS from cows treated with Monsanto/Eli Lilly's milk and profit-increasing rBST.

We also buy milk labeled with "from cows not treated with rBST." I use to get exclusively organic milk, however, about half our milk consumption is for cereal and my kids don't drink the left over milk, so about half was getting poured down the drain. My older son only eats organic/natural food so we have a very hefty grocery bill, so this was the one thing I cut back. He eats natural everything else, so I'm hoping he's okay. T. Joes sells four packs of little milks and I put a milk in each of my kids lunches about half the days. The other days they get water. I read that the crapiest of foods get sent to the schools, so hearing about the bad milk going there doesn't suprise me. I read they even use "pink slim" in school lunches.

 

[amc80]

About milk . . . I only buy Trader Joe's non fat skim milk.
I drink about a gallon a week.
It is "From cows not treated with rBST."

I don't know how TJ's does it but it but theirs is cheaper than "normal" milk at the supermarkets - which of course IS from cows treated with Monsanto/Eli Lilly's milk and profit-increasing rBST.

Our "normal" milk at the grocery store (Safeway/Vons/Kroger store brand) is marked with the non-rBST thing as well, as are other dairy products of this brand.

 

[kenny]

About milk . . . I only buy Trader Joe's non fat skim milk.
I drink about a gallon a week.
It is "From cows not treated with rBST."

I don't know how TJ's does it but it but theirs is cheaper than "normal" milk at the supermarkets - which of course IS from cows treated with Monsanto/Eli Lilly's milk and profit-increasing rBST.

Our "normal" milk at the grocery store (Safeway/Vons/Kroger store brand) is marked with the non-rBST thing as well, as are other dairy products of this brand.

That's good to hear.

By normal do you mean the cheapest brand they carry?
Or are you paying more for rBST-free?

I'm in California and will venture into a large corporate supermarket and see if that is now true here too.
I rarely go to supers, since all my food is from Costco, TJ's and local produce market catering to Mexican immigrants where Fuji apples are 25 cents a pound and you get 6 bunches of cilantro for a buck.

 

[amc80]

About milk . . . I only buy Trader Joe's non fat skim milk.
I drink about a gallon a week.
It is "From cows not treated with rBST."

I don't know how TJ's does it but it but theirs is cheaper than "normal" milk at the supermarkets - which of course IS from cows treated with Monsanto/Eli Lilly's milk and profit-increasing rBST.

Our "normal" milk at the grocery store (Safeway/Vons/Kroger store brand) is marked with the non-rBST thing as well, as are other dairy products of this brand.

That's good to hear.

By normal do you mean the cheapest brand they carry?
Or are you paying more for rBST-free?

I'm in California and will venture into a large corporate supermarket and see if that is now true here too.
I rarely go to supers, since all my food is from Costco, TJ's and local produce market catering to Mexican immigrants where Fuji apples are 25 cents a pound and you get 6 bunches of cilantro for a buck.

Yep, I'm talking about the cheap stuff. If you're in CA then it's either Safeway or Vons...it's their Lucerne brand. So just your normal, generic store brand.

 

[kenny]

About milk . . . I only buy Trader Joe's non fat skim milk.
I drink about a gallon a week.
It is "From cows not treated with rBST."

I don't know how TJ's does it but it but theirs is cheaper than "normal" milk at the supermarkets - which of course IS from cows treated with Monsanto/Eli Lilly's milk and profit-increasing rBST.

Our "normal" milk at the grocery store (Safeway/Vons/Kroger store brand) is marked with the non-rBST thing as well, as are other dairy products of this brand.

That's good to hear.

By normal do you mean the cheapest brand they carry?
Or are you paying more for rBST-free?

I'm in California and will venture into a large corporate supermarket and see if that is now true here too.
I rarely go to supers, since all my food is from Costco, TJ's and local produce market catering to Mexican immigrants where Fuji apples are 25 cents a pound and you get 6 bunches of cilantro for a buck.

Yep, I'm talking about the cheap stuff. If you're in CA then it's either Safeway or Vons...it's their Lucerne brand. So just your normal, generic store brand.

Thanks I'll check the local Vons and TJ's and get post the results.
I don't know if there are any Safeway's left around here, but I know there's a Vons.

It was many years ago I made my TJ's-only rBST decision about milk, and have not bothered checking since.
Perhaps TJ's was instrumental in getting the supers onboard with rBST-free milk today.

 

[kenny]

Just went to 3 stores, Trader Joe's, Vons, and that little market that caters to Mexicans where I am always the only white guy.
They are SUPER cheap for produce, like tomatoes for 20 cents a pound or cilantro for 18 cents a bunch. Just astonishing!!!

Von's store brand is called Lucerne and it DOES say on the label, From cows not treated with rBST.
The Little Mexico place had 4 brands, Springfield, Alta Dena, Golden Cream and Knudsen, but not all products in all brands.
Springfield and Golden Cream said nothing anywhere on any label about rBST or growth hormones so assume they DO use it.
Lucerne and Alta Dena's labels said , "From cows that do not get rBST or growth hormones".

So I'd say the industry may be in transition and price is not related to rBST, but where you shop.

But check out these prices.
I'll list them in this order...
TJ's, Von's Lucerne Brand, Little Mexico's Springfield brand, Little Mexico's Alta Dena Brand

Gallon of non fat milk 1.99, 3.79, 3.19 4.19
Half Gallon of non fat milk: 1.29, 2.39, 2.38, 2.48

Pint of Half and Half 1.19, 1.99, NA, NA
Quart of Half and Half 1.99, 2.69, NA, 3.28 for Golden Cream brand (Most expensive one of all HAS rBST!)

Pint of non-fat Cottage Cheese 1.99, 2.59, Alta Dena 2.69, Knudsen 3.69

Another interesting fact, at Vons the Knudsen cottage cheese did not mention anything about rBST, but the Knudesn sour cream and Little Mexico did say, "From cows not treated with rBST."

Just the facts, Ma'am.

Bottom line for me, continue to buy dairy ONLY at Trader Joe's, No rBST and lowest prices by far.
I don't know how Trader joe's can sell dairy so cheaply; I thought there was a monopoly on milk like there is on sugar prices here.
I don't bother checking milk at Costco because they make you buy two gallons, which we can't finish before is spoils.

amc80, thanks for teaching me that rBST-free milk is not something unique to TJ's these days.
Oh, and at Vons Organic milk was $6.39 a gallon.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Von's store brand is called Lucerne and it DOES say on the label, From cows not treated with rBST.
So I'd say the industry may be in transition and price is not related to rBST, but where you shop.

But check out these prices.
I'll list them in this order...
TJ's, Von's Lucerne Brand, Little Mexico's Springfield brand, Little Mexico's Alta Dena Brand

Gallon of non fat milk 1.99, 3.79, 3.19 4.19
Half Gallon of non fat milk: 1.29, 2.39, 2.38, 2.48.

We have Safeway rather than Von's here, but it's the same Lucerne brand and their milk is more pricey here. Safeway, I've found, tends to be on the more expensive side for most foods, not just milk.

 

[Gypsy]

Kenny, I generally feel TJ's is the best for nearly all dairy. They are the only ones that carry the eggs I like which are Jumbo and Free range. Yes, I pay more for them, but I won't buy eggs that aren't free range anymore, TJ's are also organic, which I don't absolutely need (I prefer vegetarian fed, honestly). Their yogurts and puddings and sour cream taste the best BY FAR, and are the most cost effective. The only dairy I don't buy there is butter and that's because Sprouts carries my favorite butter from Humbolt Country here in Nor Cal, it tastes incredible (I prefer it to the european butters I used to love even) and is 'local' to me and I really prefer it to every other brand of butter out there. Plus Sprouts is pretty okay with their pricing and is the only one that carries that brand.

EDIT TO ADD; Don't google egg facts.

 

[Lotus99]

I don't bother checking milk at Costco because they make you buy two gallons, which we can't finish before is spoils.
.

The Kirkland milk in our California Costco is marked as from cows not treated with rBST.

Costco also sells organic milk and butter, I believe. They just started selling organic orange juice (refrigerated) and organic apple juice (bottled).

 

[diamondseeker2006]

We get organic milk, and since we do not have great access to organic foods, I do get delivery of frozen organic chicken and beef and some vegetables. I hope it balances out with the non-organic things I have to buy! But I am glad that most of our meats and milk are organic.

After reading this thread, though, I may start buying almond milk for our teenage daughter. I only use milk in coffee in the morning.