Our new money!

[lucyandroger]

You know what? I think the confusion is comming from my dfinitions of old and new $.

Old money to me means people who have had money for a generation at least and have been tought how to maintain the $.

New money to me means, recently wealthy, i know, but in reality most of the percieved recent wealthy are fake, wannabes with maxed out bills just so people will percieve them as wealthy

It seems to me that you are comparing old money and fake money...not old money vs. new money. If they aren't actually wealthy and are only pretending to have money, then they aren't new money.

As much as we talk about the American dream, people are still uncomfortable with individuals changing socio-economic classes.

 

[Haven]

CUSO, I think your scenario is more about people who have debt vs. people who have accumulated wealth as opposed to people with new money vs. old money.

I do feel that on average, those with new money feel they have more to prove and are less likely to spend their money wisely. I, personally, don't care what a person spends his/her money on. I don't have much exposure to the obnoxious, bragging type, but I also realize that people who spend frivolously won't have money for long.

Everybody makes financial mistakes in their life, all you can hope is that people learn from them!

I'm with NEL on this one.

I don't really care how a person spends his money, as long as he isn't spending MY money.

As for the thread, I think that counting other people's money is never a nice thing to do. I appreciate the discussion about the differences in spending choices between "old" and "new" money as an inquiry into cultural values and how our financial choices reflect them, but that really doesn't seem to be where this thread started, nor where it's headed. I'm guilty of judging people based on their spending choices just as much as anyone here, but I'm trying to curb that behavior, not increase it.

Now, this topic has raised some interesting questions:
I wonder why it's so offensive to people when the newly moneyed invest their dime in flashy items. Why does it offend us? I know I would scoff at all the signs of flash and gaudiness, but I can't figure out why it offends my sensibilities. Anyone have any ideas?

CUSO--I think your last point is a really important one. Our definitions of these terms probably vary widely. I'll admit that it *does* bother me when I see people spending money that I know they don't have (as in: friends who have confided in me about financial woes) but still, I'm not convinced I really have any right to be bothered. (In fact, I don't think I have a right at all, and I hate admitting that I am.) I wonder if you're on to something about why these things irritate the financially responsible--is it because we live in a society where grossly irresponsible financial choices end up affecting the economy as a whole? I never thought of it in those terms.

I wish I could say that's why I'm bothered by such things, but really, I think I'm just being a snot. My beloved grandmother taught me so many things, and I hate to admit it, but I think snobbery in response to the situations we're discussing here might be one of them. I'd love to hear why others think this bothers them--maybe it will make me feel better about my own gut reactions.

 

[CUSO]

I must be the opposite kind of annoyance - I loooove to tell people how LITTLE I paid for something. Someone will tell me my shirt is cute and out of my mouth flies, "Thanks, got it at Target for $3!" I can't seem to help it lol.

I do the same thing. I keep telling myself to keep my mouth shut, say thank you and move one, but nooooooo I just have to tell them where I got it and what rock bottom price I paid for it

Funny, I used too feel the same way. I was a member of Watch forums for a long time. And I used to love and take pride in the fact that I paid rock botom for a watch. Well when I started buying top level watches and telling my fellow afficianoados how little I paid, well they began just assasinating my character. You see, in the watch world, If someone paid $30k for a watch and then I come allong and pay 16k for the same watch, they believe that it makes the value of their watch go down, so they frown upon threads that talk about getting bargains. I hated that.

 

[Lula]

Old money = People who have had money for several generations. (Think family-owned businesses that have been around for 50 to 100 years). A major conglomerate purchased my good friend's family business (established for nearly 100 years at time of purchase). No one in their family has to work -- but they all do because they do not believe in idleness.

New money = People who have new wealth due to a job, winning the lottery, perhaps savvy investments -- but it's happened within one generation. There is a "flashiness" to this group's spending that my old money friends just do not have. And I don't know if it is connected to indebtedness, actually. I think many of the new money people I know manage their money well, but the choices they make on what they spend it on are just different -- flashier cars, bigger houses, trendy clothes, etc. Not the slightly shabby "stealth wealth" look. They also tend to be competitive about their spending -- always trying to one-up each other. It's kind of stressful to be around a group of them.

But old money can also behave badly...

I had another college friend, born into a generations-old family business, who became an out-of-control drunk/drug abuser in college. I have no idea what happened to him. But I do remember parties we all attended where, if you waited long enough, Steve* would be so drunk that he'd be dancing naked on the coffee table.

*not his real name.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Now, this topic has raised some interesting questions:
I wonder why it's so offensive to people when the newly moneyed invest their dime in flashy items. Why does it offend us? I know I would scoff at all the signs of flash and gaudiness, but I can't figure out why it offends my sensibilities. Anyone have any ideas?

Am I a bad person for wearing designer jeans (that I paid cash for)??? People must scoff at me left-and-right! I once saw a girl look at my rear end and then give me a dirty look. Was it my jeans or my *ss that she didn't like?

My good friend from high school came from "old money," but before she was to inherit it, her dad became sick with cancer and after 10 years worth of medical bills, he died and most of the liquid assets were spent. Four years of probate later (over the remaining cash and real estate), still she hasn't inherited it and she has MS so she's super sick and needs the money. If someone saw her they'd never guess at one point she may have had millions and owned a home outright.

 

[Haven]

MC--Did my post offend you? If so, I think you misinterpreted the entire thing.

As for your jeans, there's really nothing gaudy or flashy about *jeans* at all, in my opinion. I can't imagine a pair of jeans being considered gaudy unless they were covered in rhinestones or something. Actually, I think I owned *those* jeans in the 80s.
(In my mind, "gaudy" and "expensive" are not always the same thing.)

Anyway, if you're offended by what I wrote I'm only going to ask you to reread it, as I merely admitted to a bad habit of mine. And if you did understand my post, it's actually a bit unkind of you to respond in that way after reading that I feel bad about scoffing at such things and am trying to get to the root of it so I can stop doing so.

Regardless, I don't care what you spend on your jeans, or who makes them. But I already stated that, in my last post. Frankly, I wouldn't know the difference between a pair of $300 jeans and a pair of $80 jeans.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Haven, I know in my own case there have been situations where I get frustrated with some family members who I feel are making bad financial decisions. I feel like I can come off as "preachy" if I say anything, even if I don't mean to, because really it's not my money, not my decision.

Recently my sister financed a boob job. Seriously. So I got all lecture-y and started telling her she should save for it and I didn't get far since she rationalized that she could afford it. It was essentially a core disagreement over "affordable"...she=if I can afford payments, I can afford it, I = if I can't pay cash, I can't afford it. Once I realized I'd gone into "preach" mode, I cut myself off. She's a grown woman who is in charge of her own finances and they don't affect me, so I shut my mouth. She has the freedom to make her own mistakes...and so long as she doesn't ask to borrow from me, I'm perfectly content with that!

 

[partgypsy]

NEL this is off topic, but my sister was getting to know this guy (anesthesiologist for various plastic surgery centers) On their first date after complimenting her looks, offered to get her a free boob job, and even said something to the effect of "I love boobs". My sister said she liked her boobs just fine and that was the last date. Too bad it wasn't your sister, she could have gotten a free set if she was willing to put up with a misguided jerk for a boyfriend!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

MC--Did my post offend you? If so, I think you misinterpreted the entire thing.

As for your jeans, there's really nothing gaudy or flashy about *jeans* at all, in my opinion. I can't imagine a pair of jeans being considered gaudy unless they were covered in rhinestones or something. Actually, I think I owned *those* jeans in the 80s.
(In my mind, "gaudy" and "expensive" are not always the same thing.)

Anyway, if you're offended by what I wrote I'm only going to ask you to reread it, as I merely admitted to a bad habit of mine. And if you did understand my post, it's actually a bit unkind of you to respond in that way after reading that I feel bad about scoffing at such things and am trying to get to the root of it so I can stop doing so.

Regardless, I don't care what you spend on your jeans, or who makes them. But I already stated that, in my last post. Frankly, I wouldn't know the difference between a pair of $300 jeans and a pair of $80 jeans.

Haven - I was agreeing with you ...

Saying what is the deal with people who have a problem with expensive jeans. I understand that you were saying that you couldn't figure out what others found offensive and that you thought it was odd that they did so. I was replying saying, "yeah, what is the deal with those people?" Sorry I offended you. I didn't mean to.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

NEL this is off topic, but my sister was getting to know this guy (anesthesiologist for various plastic surgery centers) On their first date after complimenting her looks, offered to get her a free boob job, and even said something to the effect of "I love boobs". My sister said she liked her boobs just fine and that was the last date. Too bad it wasn't your sister, she could have gotten a free set if she was willing to put up with a misguided jerk for a boyfriend!

Wow. Your sister is a smart lady to make that their one and only date. What's worse is that I had to actually think for a minute which I'd rather have my sister do...finance a boob job or go on a few dates with a jerk. It's a toss up, haha!

 

[iLander]

Judgmental much? Stereotype much? How many stockbrokers do you actually know? I happen to know many, I'm an attorney who has worked for financial services clients for my entire career and I have a lot of friends in the industry as well. Sure, there are some brokers who drive Hummers, but there are plenty who drive Hondas. As far as saving for retirement, since these men and women are in financial services and most of them have degrees in finance, all of the ones I know make saving for retirement a priority.

And wow, insulting their kids too! Most of my friends who are stockbrokers make their kids' education a top priority - I'll be sure to let them know that their kids are never going to learn any real skills due to their parents profession so they should just save their money and stop saving for college

I don't get this whole thread. New money or old money- all the same to me - one is not better than the other. I could care less if people throw their money around or hide it. Why let it bother you so much?

I think a lot of uninformed people don't understand small business people: if you have employees, you are pulling enough money out of your pocket (and it IS your pocket) to provide a livelihood for other people. Entire salaries, enough to support a family.

So Mister Wannabee probably makes a lot less money than Mr Responsible . But Mr Wannabee spends his money on a new Porsche every year (gotta maximize that depreciation!), the largest possible SUV for the wifey, the biggest Garagemahal available and has no money left at the end of the month. Meanwhile, Mr Responsible , with his old pickup, and paid off house, is providing salaries for 6 employees and probably is putting away money for his retirement.

Mr Responsible r's kids are learning about hard work and earning your pay. Mr Wannabee kids will go into this world thinking everyone owes them something and that work is for suckers. Mr Responsible s kids might have actual SKILLS, while Mr Wannabee 's kids can only push paper around and suck up to the boss.

Feel better?

I think stockbrokers just come to mind, because financial types seem to have big money. NYTimes today "At Goldman, for instance, the base salary for managing directors rose to $500,000 from $300,000, while at Morgan Stanley and Credit Suisse it jumped to $400,000 from $200,000."



And I think everyone is just discussing it, like we discuss everything on here. It doesn't actually bother me, I'm just chatting.

 

[Imdanny]

As far a dressing like you have money, I think that's for people that DON'T have money.

Oh, good. Then I'm safe.

 

[Imdanny]

Judgmental much? Stereotype much? How many stockbrokers do you actually know? I happen to know many, I'm an attorney who has worked for financial services clients for my entire career and I have a lot of friends in the industry as well. Sure, there are some brokers who drive Hummers, but there are plenty who drive Hondas. As far as saving for retirement, since these men and women are in financial services and most of them have degrees in finance, all of the ones I know make saving for retirement a priority.

Agreed, a bit judgmental.


And wow, insulting their kids too! Most of my friends who are stockbrokers make their kids' education a top priority - I'll be sure to let them know that their kids are never going to learn any real skills due to their parents profession so they should just save their money and stop saving for college

Again, judgmental.

I don't get this whole thread. New money or old money- all the same to me - one is not better than the other. I could care less if people throw their money around or hide it. Why let it bother you so much?

This is where we diverge. Look at the financial disaster this country is in. Why? Because people dont handle their fincnaces properly. Why am I having to pay a 6 figure tax bill this year (I am not a business owner)? Because I need to subsidize those who threw arround their money improperly. They bought too big of a home, too much of a car, credit cards maxed out. Why let it bother me? Are you serious? People with old money typically dont fall into these debt traps, they are my least concern. I knew we were in trouble 6 years ago. When I was an executive for a large company of 1000 employees, I drove a Honda Accord. I would always notice the parking lot at work. It was filled with Lexus, Mercedes, Hummers, Bmw's, and this was a parking lot for employees that were 6 levels below me, they were the workerbees. I knew I was not paying them enough to comfortably afford those cars. That is when I knew that when people throw their money arround, I would someday have to pay for their poor decisions.[/quote]
....................................................................................................................

Ok, but let's not only blame the "little people." The financial houses (i.e. the banks) wrote trillions of dollars in fraudulent mortgages that they knew the people they were giving them to could never repay, they secruitized those mortgages, chopping them up into millions of pieces and sold these piles of junk all over the world. They then bet on this carp failing, and took (and are taking) trillions of dollars out of the back door of the Treasury and Fed. I have no sympathy for the finance industry and for the creeps who receive 100's of thousands of dollars in "bonuses," and have year after year, to this day, no matter what. And when those people rub their money in other people's faces, yes, it does bother me. These people let this money go to their head and they are elitists. And they are crooks.

And then if you object to ANY of it, they just say you're "envious" because that's how they rationalize their own worldview, while the economy continues to fall apart for the rest of the whole country.

Crime is crime, whether it's petty shoplifting, or the banking cartels' constant rewarding of themselves at the expense of the government for their own failure.

 

[Haven]

MC--Did my post offend you? If so, I think you misinterpreted the entire thing.

As for your jeans, there's really nothing gaudy or flashy about *jeans* at all, in my opinion. I can't imagine a pair of jeans being considered gaudy unless they were covered in rhinestones or something. Actually, I think I owned *those* jeans in the 80s.
(In my mind, "gaudy" and "expensive" are not always the same thing.)

Anyway, if you're offended by what I wrote I'm only going to ask you to reread it, as I merely admitted to a bad habit of mine. And if you did understand my post, it's actually a bit unkind of you to respond in that way after reading that I feel bad about scoffing at such things and am trying to get to the root of it so I can stop doing so.

Regardless, I don't care what you spend on your jeans, or who makes them. But I already stated that, in my last post. Frankly, I wouldn't know the difference between a pair of $300 jeans and a pair of $80 jeans.

Haven - I was agreeing with you ...

Saying what is the deal with people who have a problem with expensive jeans. I understand that you were saying that you couldn't figure out what others found offensive and that you thought it was odd that they did so. I was replying saying, "yeah, what is the deal with those people?" Sorry I offended you. I didn't mean to.

I totally didn't get that. Sorry, MC! I'm the one who misunderstood YOUR post. I hope you'll forgive me.

 

[Haven]

Haven, I know in my own case there have been situations where I get frustrated with some family members who I feel are making bad financial decisions. I feel like I can come off as "preachy" if I say anything, even if I don't mean to, because really it's not my money, not my decision.

Recently my sister financed a boob job. Seriously. So I got all lecture-y and started telling her she should save for it and I didn't get far since she rationalized that she could afford it. It was essentially a core disagreement over "affordable"...she=if I can afford payments, I can afford it, I = if I can't pay cash, I can't afford it. Once I realized I'd gone into "preach" mode, I cut myself off. She's a grown woman who is in charge of her own finances and they don't affect me, so I shut my mouth. She has the freedom to make her own mistakes...and so long as she doesn't ask to borrow from me, I'm perfectly content with that!

NEL--I'm definitely similar in that I get frustrated with family members who make bad financial decisions. I think you and I have similar beliefs about finances, if I remember correctly, so I also completely agree with your definition of affordable.

When it's family members, I understand the concern because it's about their welfare and security. I think that's normal and the sign of someone who cares.

It must have been difficult for you to watch your sister finance a boob job. I would have been beside myself.

 

[Imdanny]

I think a lot of uninformed people don't understand small business people: if you have employees, you are pulling enough money out of your pocket (and it IS your pocket) to provide a livelihood for other people. Entire salaries, enough to support a family.

So Mister Average Stockbroker probably makes a lot less money than Mr Plumbing Company owner. But Mr Broker spends his money on a new Porsche every year (gotta maximize that depreciation!), the largest possible SUV for the wifey, the biggest Garagemahal available and has no money left at the end of the month. Meanwhile, Mr Plumber, with his old pickup, and paid off house, is providing salaries for 6 employees and probably is putting away money for his retirement.

Mr Plumber's kids are learning about hard work and earning your pay. Mr Broker's kids will go into this world thinking everyone owes them something and that work is for suckers. Mr Plumbers kids might have actual SKILLS, while Mr Broker's kids can only push paper around and suck up to the boss.

As far a dressing like you have money, I think that's for people that DON'T have money. And frankly, I don't get how a $300 Saks T-shirt looks any different than my $15 Gap T-shirt. Seriously, if they're both black, and they're both T-shirts? Also, I see a lot of wealthy babes that are total fashion victims! Some fawning salesperson talked them into a $900 jumpsuit!

iLander, you mean that guy from Solomon Smith Barney was lying when he said, "We make money the old fashioned way. We earn it."?

OMG! No! My illusions have all been shattered!

Yes, I'm judgmental. I think the finance industry has its place. I think most of the people who work in banking are good, honest people working for a living. But I will not excuse the mess the financial industry has made of its own accord and for its own greed such that today we have the Fed printing $2 trillion in paper (QE) and giving via the back door to the banks to buy their toxic assets the risk of which was their responsibility to manage in the first place. When you've got 20 hedge fund managers last year each being "paid" 1 billion in a year, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the financial system has gotten out of control. It was regulated in 1933. It should have stayed regulated. This whole country is in for a very hard time now.

 

[Lula]

Ok, but let's not only blame the "little people." The financial houses (i.e. the banks) wrote trillions of dollars in fraudulent mortgages that they knew the people they were giving them to could never repay, they secruitized those mortgages, chopping them up into millions of pieces and sold these piles of junk all over the world. They then bet on this carp failing, and took (and are taking) trillions of dollars out of the back door of the Treasury and Fed. I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for the finance industry and for the creeps who receive 100's of thousands of dollars in "bonuses," and have year after year, to this day, no matter what. And when those people rub their money in other people's faces, yeah, it does bother me. These people let this money go to their head and they are elitists. And they are crooks.

And then if you object to ANY of it, they just say you're "envious" because that's how they rationalize their own worldview, while the economy continues to fall apart for the rest of the whole country.

Crime is crime, whether it's petty shoplifting, or the banking cartels' constant rewarding of themselves at the expense of the government for their own failure.

Bravo, Danny. Why more people are not outraged about how screwed the average Joe was by the financial/crisis bailout is beyond me. I'm reading "House of Cards: A Tale of Hubris and Wretched Excess on Wall Street" by William Cohan, and it is eye-opening. The taxpayers assumed the risk those financial institutions/investors should have borne. That is, if you truly believe in unfettered markets and true capitalism, the system -- or at least the major offenders -- should have been allowed to fail. Instead, the government gave them -- on our dime --- low interest, below-market interest, loans, which cost the taxpayers billions in interest that could have been earned on that money had it been lent at market rates.

I do agree with ilander that once you've been responsible for your employees' livlihoods (i.e., payroll), that you never look at money the same way. Perhaps that's why the old money families I know (with businesses employing hundreds, if not thousands) tend to be more conservative and risk adverse, and that spills over into their personal spending habits. They are not flashy at all; they often have the philosophy of "reuse, repair, or make do without," and many of them could be called cheap, frankly.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="Haven|

I don't really care how a person spends his money, as long as he isn't spending MY money.

but they are spending your money...who do you think is paying for their homes that they couldn't really afford?

 

[CUSO]

[quote="Haven|

I don't really care how a person spends his money, as long as he isn't spending MY money.

but they are...who do you think is paying for their homes that they couldn't really afford?

Thank YOU, I have been biting my tongue. We are all paying for everyones overspending.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

MC--Did my post offend you? If so, I think you misinterpreted the entire thing.

As for your jeans, there's really nothing gaudy or flashy about *jeans* at all, in my opinion. I can't imagine a pair of jeans being considered gaudy unless they were covered in rhinestones or something. Actually, I think I owned *those* jeans in the 80s.
(In my mind, "gaudy" and "expensive" are not always the same thing.)

Anyway, if you're offended by what I wrote I'm only going to ask you to reread it, as I merely admitted to a bad habit of mine. And if you did understand my post, it's actually a bit unkind of you to respond in that way after reading that I feel bad about scoffing at such things and am trying to get to the root of it so I can stop doing so.

Regardless, I don't care what you spend on your jeans, or who makes them. But I already stated that, in my last post. Frankly, I wouldn't know the difference between a pair of $300 jeans and a pair of $80 jeans.

Haven - I was agreeing with you ...

Saying what is the deal with people who have a problem with expensive jeans. I understand that you were saying that you couldn't figure out what others found offensive and that you thought it was odd that they did so. I was replying saying, "yeah, what is the deal with those people?" Sorry I offended you. I didn't mean to.

I totally didn't get that. Sorry, MC! I'm the one who misunderstood YOUR post. I hope you'll forgive me.

Sorry, it's the tone that once again gets lost in translation. Plus my posts probably do not make any sense b/c I'm so sleep deprived due to my neighbors keeping me up all night with their weird noises at 3 am.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Haven, I know in my own case there have been situations where I get frustrated with some family members who I feel are making bad financial decisions. I feel like I can come off as "preachy" if I say anything, even if I don't mean to, because really it's not my money, not my decision.

Recently my sister financed a boob job. Seriously. So I got all lecture-y and started telling her she should save for it and I didn't get far since she rationalized that she could afford it. It was essentially a core disagreement over "affordable"...she=if I can afford payments, I can afford it, I = if I can't pay cash, I can't afford it. Once I realized I'd gone into "preach" mode, I cut myself off. She's a grown woman who is in charge of her own finances and they don't affect me, so I shut my mouth. She has the freedom to make her own mistakes...and so long as she doesn't ask to borrow from me, I'm perfectly content with that!

do they repossess her boobs if she's late on her payments???...

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Haven, I know in my own case there have been situations where I get frustrated with some family members who I feel are making bad financial decisions. I feel like I can come off as "preachy" if I say anything, even if I don't mean to, because really it's not my money, not my decision.

Recently my sister financed a boob job. Seriously. So I got all lecture-y and started telling her she should save for it and I didn't get far since she rationalized that she could afford it. It was essentially a core disagreement over "affordable"...she=if I can afford payments, I can afford it, I = if I can't pay cash, I can't afford it. Once I realized I'd gone into "preach" mode, I cut myself off. She's a grown woman who is in charge of her own finances and they don't affect me, so I shut my mouth. She has the freedom to make her own mistakes...and so long as she doesn't ask to borrow from me, I'm perfectly content with that!

do they repossess her boobs if she's late on her payments???...

Heh. I'm going to insist she ask at her next follow-up appt.

 

[iLander]

My favorite moment during the financial crisis: the government gives gobs of our money to the banks. The banks use that money to buy treasury bills from the government, which at the time were paying 3%. The banks pay back their TARP bills with the profit from the 3%, plus they have their "best quarters ever". It was the weirdest loop I ever saw!

Back in the '90's one of my in-laws, who was high ranking in state finance, started talking with my DH about this new stuff called "derivatives". They agreed it was voodoo, and the in-law said "this is banks betting with deposit money, it's not going to go well". Turns out he was right.

Back in 2007, a "financial advisor" at the bank offered my DH and I a fantastic interest rate; over 10% on GMAC bonds. He said "It's secure, people don't walk away from their houses". My DH and I looked at each other with eyebrows raised, and left. We have never gotten more than 5% on a cash instrument, and it sounded like it was too good to be true. Turns out we were right.

During the housing boom, my DH and I were looking at each other and saying "Who can afford these houses? No way is that ratty 2 bedroom worth $250,000". Turns out we were right.

I'm not trying to brag (okay, maybe a little ) but this was all common sense thinking. Not the smartest, most edjamakated thinking, but plain old common sense.

I think the saying that applies to this is ; "Turns out common sense isn't all that common".

 

[soocool]

Some people are luckier than others. Some people work hard for their money. Some people just step in it. Some people take risks that pay off. Some people play it safe and save . Money is just something that people consider valuable though at anytime it become worthless. Think of the German Hyperinflation of 1922 when barrels of money couldn't even buy a loaf of bread, though you could burn it to keep warm.

Yes, I seem to be rattling nonsense, but what do I care what my neighbor can or can't afford? I buy what appeals to me and what I consider to be a good buy. If I think an item is overpriced I won't buy it ,while someone else may think it is priced just right. It is thoroughly subjective and now I know it is time to get ready for bed because I don't even know what I am saying.

 

[iLander]

iLander, you mean that guy from Solomon Smith Barney was lying when he said, "We make money the old fashioned way. We earn it."?

OMG! No! My illusions have all been shattered!

Yes, I'm judgmental. I think the finance industry has its place. I think most of the people who work in banking are good, honest people working for a living. But I will not excuse the mess the financial industry has made of its own accord and for its own greed such that today we have the Fed printing $2 trillion in paper (QE) and giving via the back door to the banks to buy their toxic assets the risk of which was their responsibility to manage in the first place. When you've got 20 hedge fund managers last year each being "paid" 1 billion in a year, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the financial system has gotten out of control. It was regulated in 1933. It should have stayed regulated. This whole country is in for a very hard time now.

Agree 100%.

I don't understand who pays these hedge fund managers? They take home up to 20% of ASSETS, not profit or growth. If you invest $100, you pay them $20 per year, even if he doesn't make a penny for you! In 4-5 years, you can be completely out of money, but hey, the hedgie is sure happy. Who, exactly, says "Sign me up for that"?

The reason we are in such a bad state, is that the hedgies will do ANYTHING to make money. They will lie and cheat. They make up "investments" that they sell long to Grandma and then sell these "investments" short as soon as Grandma is outside the building. The problem is that Wall Street is broken; the system of competitive back-stabbing that these guys go through to get to the top is Draconian. They fight and step all over each other, and their bosses encourage that. "A few lies" are not a big issue in their minds. The big macho fight to the top, is all they are about. Of course they parsed the same bad mortgage 5 different ways. They have no integrity and no guilt. And they are all still working away in their offices as we speak.

To come back around to their lack of common sense: a friend of mine had a Harvard MBA Hedgie-in-training in her apartment. This guy had gone to the top prep schools and college, he had been on his way to the top at Wall Street for his entire life. There was a pigeon nest on her fire escape. The hedgie was amazed that pigeons come from eggs.

True story.

 

[Imdanny]

iLander, the one person I know in this situation, Wall Street, showered with ridiculous "bonuses" year after years, from a middle class family, thinks he's better than everyone because of his newfound wealth, retired at 40, resents what other people think of him, and doesn't think too highly of "lesser" people in general. We actually get along ok now because I had to kind of force my ego to ignore him, if that makes sense, but I always used to think, "Why are you so unhappy and resentful about what average people get paid and so insistent that they're paid too much and that they have too many benefits, simple things like health care, and Social Security, God forbid, when they work full time, and when they work for 30 years straight which you know nothing about, and why do you care so much about what I think? You're the one with the pile of money and no worries for the rest of your life. What are you doing occupying your mind caring about what I think about you?" Strange.

 

[Madam Bijoux]

Imdanny :

iLander, the one person I know in this situation, Wall Street, showered with ridiculous "bonuses" year after years, from a middle class family, thinks he's better than everyone because of his newfound wealth, retired at 40, resents what other people think of him, and doesn't think too highly of "lesser" people in general.

The only thing that a lot of people respect is money or the appearance of money. This person you're describing is probably one of those. It messes with him when people don't bow down and grovel because he has money or the appearance of money.

 

[Imdanny]

It's funny you should say that because that's exactly what I didn't do. I didn't consider his arguments more sound than mine, or him more perceptive than me, or his view of the world morally superior to mine.

And why would I? How inane.

If there's one thing I have in this world it's my ability to think for myself combined with my conscience.

We would debate (that's what we did at that forum). If I saw an opening, I ripped his argument to shreds.

I'm not intimidated by people's intellects, at all, ever, even when I encounter a genius (and this guy definitely isn't one). I consider myself free to educate myself, to follow my own inquiry, and to hold my own opinions.

As far as where I do, or do not, fit into the social hierarchy, or the social hierarchy as perceived by other, I don't play that. I'm more about life and truth.

Thank you. I started this thread with this person in mind. I think you've truly unlocked the mystery that was troubling me about my very troubling interactions with this very troubling person.

 

[iLander]

I am never impressed with money. I doesn't intimidate me one speck.

I deal with multi-billionaires continuously in my job, and it doesn't bother me. I know one guy who started his company with just 7 people, and now he has 2,000 employees, a couple of private jets, several huge plants that he built from scratch, a family compound in one of the most expensive areas in the country. He has a guy just to take care of his 19 cars. His company is one of the largest privately held companies in the US. But since we were with him since day one, I see behind the curtain and admire him for his hard work and strategic thinking, not his money.

Interestingly, he doesn't have a big ego and there's the difference. People that truly earn their money don't have big egos and they don't change. They are gracious and kind to everyone. People that feel guilty about their money tend to develop big egos and are actually very insecure, so they act jerky.

Danny-Your friend is insecure and feels guilty. I would just pity him.

 

[Imdanny]

He didn't earn his money the way you describe, iLander. That's absolutely the case.

Did I forget to mention he's in the closet and I'm not and I know he's in the closet and he knows I know? Oops!