Oval Pre-purchase Bow tie Confirmation

[clcat120]

Hi all - I’m close to purchase this oval stone that will be made into a three stone ring by preserving only the two trapezoids from this shank you see in the videos. It’s G and VS2. When I see it in person, it appeared very bright and sparkly. It was also noticeably whiter than my J and another H squares emerald cut stones.
This oval is cut a bit antique style with a culet, larger facet in the middle section of the stone. It result in a bit unique light pattern with both small and large flashes. For those of you with a lot of oval experience, does the middle section appears to be a bit dark like a bow tie?
I was drawn to those large faceting because it made the stone unique and not a whole crush ice ball. Here are a bunch of videos for your review!

4.69 oval side profile

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4.69 G Oval

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4.69 oval - display lighting

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[clcat120]

Hi all - I’m close to purchase this oval stone that will be made into a three stone ring by preserving only the two trapezoids from this shank you see in the videos. It’s G and VS2. When I see it in person, it appeared very bright and sparkly. It was also noticeably whiter than my J and another H squares emerald cut stones.
This oval is cut a bit antique style with a culet, larger facet in the middle section of the stone. It result in a bit unique light pattern with both small and large flashes. For those of you with a lot of oval experience, does the middle section appears to be a bit dark like a bow tie?
I was drawn to those large faceting because it made the stone unique and not a whole crush ice ball. Here are a bunch of videos for your review!

4.69 oval side profile

youtube.com

4.69 G Oval

youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

4.69 oval - display lighting

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@tyty333 I’ve read your posts about oval before and you seen to have a lot of knowledge about the cut. I’d love to hear your opinion! Thank you!

 

[lulu_ma]

I'm not an oval expert. I love larger facets of the oval and the spread, but in the videos the bowtie does look pronounced. What is the depth of the stone?

 

[clcat120]

I'm not an oval expert. I love larger facets of the oval and the spread, but in the videos the bowtie does look pronounced. What is the depth of the stone?

Thank you! It has a 52% face and 58.7% depth. It is a 6-main stone at the pavilion. Based on the certificate, the crown appears to have a sufficient height too. I louped it too, and there was only one visible black carbon at the lower right corner, and it is an eye-clean VS2.

I read more about the bow tie. The middle section of the stone is not dead but do have a different reflecting pattern compared to the tips with a more crushed ice feel. The stone almost feel a bit like an oval shaped elongated cushion brilliant... so it is a bit interesting analysis.

 

[lulu_ma]

Here’s an example of an gorgeous antique moval (marquise/ oval hybrid).

I think it is possible to find ovals/ movals without a bow tie but it’s challenging…

This is Dolly’s personal ring so I don’t know the depth of the stone, though.

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[tyty333]

Hi @clcat120 ,

I define a bow-tie as an area through the center that stays dark most of the time or for an extended period of time. Not to confuse
this with the large facets through the center that go dark from bright sunlight just like a well-cut round brilliant. Those facets will
be red in an aset image and will have strong light return, however, the areas next to those middle facets will have leakage (white
or black in an aset) and some green thus making the strong facets in the center stand out. This is not a bow-tie in my opinion.

Be forewarned though, that a lot/most people will think this is a bow-tie because of the strong facets in the shape of a bow-tie in
the center (its understandable).

I find the stone to be charming with its open culet. The thing is that you have to love it and not care what other people think.

 

[clcat120]

Hi @clcat120 ,

I define a bow-tie as an area through the center that stays dark most of the time or for an extended period of time. Not to confuse
this with the large facets through the center that go dark from bright sunlight just like a well-cut round brilliant. Those facets will
be red in an aset image and will have strong light return, however, the areas next to those middle facets will have leakage (white
or black in an aset) and some green thus making the strong facets in the center stand out. This is not a bow-tie in my opinion.

Be forewarned though, that a lot/most people will think this is a bow-tie because of the strong facets in the shape of a bow-tie in
the center (its understandable).

I find the stone to be charming with its open culet. The thing is that you have to love it and not care what other people think.

Lol.. First I liked that tag line in your signature! haha

I believe when I saw it under ASET, the middle area is just like what you described. I don't remember the details as I was mainly using the loupe function of the aset trying to spot any other inclusions! ha. But I do remember that I thought the stone seemed to have a decent prescreens of red areas.

I agree with your analysis and forewarning that the stone has a non-symmetrical reflection pattern due to how the middle section was cut. All well cut stones goes dark in certain areas in directly sunlight but they are more symmetrical like the hearts and arrows in a round or the "four-clover" shape in a square emerald. If I understand correctly, those "dark areas" are instrumental in creating brilliance.

When I saw the stone, I absolutely loved it as it is white, big, and sparkly. Of cause, I saw it for only 10min, so maybe there will be times that I dont like the light performance of the stone. I am somehow convinced that unless I am getting an ideal round, it will always be the case with any fancy shape and I don't want a round.

 

[lulu_ma]

I think there are exceptions like the Elyque oval.

This stone is not the size or color you need. I’m just posting it as an example of excellent light performance in a fancy cut.

ELYQUE-OVAL 3.29ct. I VS2 1572835

Diamond Details Measurements 10.7 x 7.67 x 6.16 Cut Grade ID Polish ID Symmetry ID Fluorescence NEG Ratio 1.4 Table 46.3 Depth 67 Lab Report

www.distinctivegem.com

 

[clcat120]

I think there are exceptions like the Elyque oval.

This stone is not the size or color you need. I’m just posting it as an example of excellent light performance in a fancy cut.

ELYQUE-OVAL 3.29ct. I VS2 1572835

Diamond Details Measurements 10.7 x 7.67 x 6.16 Cut Grade ID Polish ID Symmetry ID Fluorescence NEG Ratio 1.4 Table 46.3 Depth 67 Lab Report

www.distinctivegem.com

Haha... you know whats funny about the report of this AGS light performance Ideal 0 oval? You are going to think I am crazy, but I think it still has a "bow tie" just vertical vs. horizontal with those big blue high contracting areas.

 

[kb1gra]

I’m hesitant to say this since you say you love the stone, but to me, this is not appealing at all. That area of large facets in the center just looks like a huge dark area. And I’m not even a round person and am used to sacrifices on light performance.

I would like it better if the whole thing were antique faceted but between the meh ends and then whatever is going on in the middle I don’t think most observers are going to see this as a sparkly, high quality stone.

but everyone loves different flavors and it’s yours, not mine.

 

[clcat120]

I’m hesitant to say this since you say you love the stone, but to me, this is not appealing at all. That area of large facets in the center just looks like a huge dark area. And I’m not even a round person and am used to sacrifices on light performance.

I would like it better if the whole thing were antique faceted but between the meh ends and then whatever is going on in the middle I don’t think most observers are going to see this as a sparkly, high quality stone.

but everyone loves different flavors and it’s yours, not mine.

Thanks your for your opinion. I will ask the store make more videos at arms length and a closer shot, so we can see if it’s true leakage or contrast that can yield appealing result. If it’s the typical head-shoulder light obstruction issue, im prob ok with it.

 

[clcat120]

Hi @clcat120 ,

I define a bow-tie as an area through the center that stays dark most of the time or for an extended period of time. Not to confuse
this with the large facets through the center that go dark from bright sunlight just like a well-cut round brilliant. Those facets will
be red in an aset image and will have strong light return, however, the areas next to those middle facets will have leakage (white
or black in an aset) and some green thus making the strong facets in the center stand out. This is not a bow-tie in my opinion.

Be forewarned though, that a lot/most people will think this is a bow-tie because of the strong facets in the shape of a bow-tie in
the center (its understandable).

I find the stone to be charming with its open culet. The thing is that you have to love it and not care what other people think.

@tyty333 I think the pattern and cut is similarly to this ring Christie’s auctioned before? Thx!

Caroline Ervin Robinson on Instagram: "My top pick from the current Christie’s online auction? This oval brilliant-cut diamond of 6.29 carats, which is D color and Internally Flawless! I am loving the elongated shape, dare I say it’s even pushing int

627 likes, 36 comments - thecarolineervin on August 17, 2021: "My top pick from the current Christie’s online auction? This oval brilliant-cut diamond of 6.29 carats, which is D color and Internally Flawless! I am loving the elongated shape, dare I say it’s even pushing into MOVAL territory...

www.instagram.com

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Rule number 1. Direct sunlight should be banned. It never helps and totally confuses.
We need to know the phone cover color and distance to the diamond to make any comments.
A still photo will show more than any of your videos so far.
An ASET or Ideal-Scope would be definitive.

 

[clcat120]

Thanks Gary - The last two videos taken by me was with my iPhone with a black back cover. I did see the ring under ASET but I don’t remember if the center is red or blue - def not green or white/transparent.

Here is a still photo. If I ask the store to make more photos or videos, any tips to help with the assessment?

 

[clcat120]

Thanks Gary - The last two videos taken by me was with my iPhone with a black back cover.

Here is a still photo. If I ask the store to make more photos or videos, any tips to help with the assessment?

And two more including one cropped out of the video

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I suspect they had a white phone case or were a fair way away?
Ideally the stone is red in the center and if there is any blue it is fleeting (which is great, not bad).
With your black phone from 10 inches away zoom close up and video - just rock the stone a small amount left and right and then from the center rock / tilt it way up to 10 or 20 degrees

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

I’m no expert, but I also don’t think your stone has a bad bow tie, or what I’d consider a bow tie worth commenting on. To me a bow-tie is an area of leakage in the centre of the stone, and this doesn’t look leaky to me, just looks like normal oval performance. But I’m slightly biased in that I actually like elongated stones which have the broad flashes through the centre (oval, pear and marquis), as long as there aren’t big dead or dull areas. I find it more interesting to the eye.

Keep us posted on what you decide!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

To me a bow-tie is an area of leakage in the centre of the stone, and this doesn’t look leaky to me, just looks like normal oval performance.

A bow tie is a dark zone caused by seeing your own head (or in a photo, the lighting obstructed by the dark camera a lens.
GIA taught the leakage thingy many decades and many older graduates still believe that to be the case.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

A bow tie is a dark zone caused by seeing your own head (or in a photo, the lighting obstructed by the dark camera a lens.
GIA taught the leakage thingy many decades and many older graduates still believe that to be the case.

But it’s not really problematic unless the darkness persists even when there’s no head in the way, right?

Or are they all called “bow-ties” and the distinction is more along the lines of “good/minimal” bow tie (where the darkness disappears when the diamond is moved or the head/camera is removed) and bad bow tie (where the darkness persists even when the diamond is moved around)?

Thanks!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

But it’s not really problematic unless the darkness persists even when there’s no head in the way, right?

Or are they all called “bow-ties” and the distinction is more along the lines of “good/minimal” bow tie (where the darkness disappears when the diamond is moved or the head/camera is removed) and bad bow tie (where the darkness persists even when the diamond is moved around)?

Thanks!

Do you know about Schrodinger's Cat?
When no one is looking at a diamond (or taking a photo) with a bow tie it does not have one.
It is the persistence and size.
Round brilliant nice cuts have 4 bowties (8 stars) and they are great because they flash on and off really fast.
There are two types in elongated diamonds.
Shallow diamond crown to table or table to crown.
Deep nail heads table to table.

 

[clcat120]

Do you know about Schrodinger's Cat?
When no one is looking at a diamond (or taking a photo) with a bow tie it does not have one.
It is the persistence and size.
Round brilliant nice cuts have 4 bowties (8 stars) and they are great because they flash on and off really fast.
There are two types in elongated diamonds.
Shallow diamond crown to table or table to crown.
Deep nail heads table to table.

I’m going to see the ring again today. I will make sure I snap some ASET picture and proper videos for better assessment. Will report back later!

 

[clcat120]

I suspect they had a white phone case or were a fair way away?
Ideally the stone is red in the center and if there is any blue it is fleeting (which is great, not bad).
With your black phone from 10 inches away zoom close up and video - just rock the stone a small amount left and right and then from the center rock / tilt it way up to 10 or 20 degrees

Hello all - Back with more evidence for analysis! Taking those ASETs are hard work!

 

[clcat120]

I suspect they had a white phone case or were a fair way away?
Ideally the stone is red in the center and if there is any blue it is fleeting (which is great, not bad).
With your black phone from 10 inches away zoom close up and video - just rock the stone a small amount left and right and then from the center rock / tilt it way up to 10 or 20 degrees

Videos are here. They are all taking with my phone with a black case and me wearing a dark blue/green fleece and blue jeans. Let me know your opinions! Thank you!

4.69 indoor solo

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4.69 oval outdoor cloudy

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4.69 oval direct lighting

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4.69 oval indoor - no direct light

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[Sprinkles&Stones]

I personally love it and would snap it up in a heartbeat! But I am no expert

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Two totally different ASET images - one maybe too far from the scope the other too close?
Do you see a bow tie with your own eyes. If not there is not one

 

[clcat120]

Two totally different ASET images - one maybe too far from the scope the other too close?
Do you see a bow tie with your own eyes. If not there is not one

It has a more antique cushion large faceting. It’s not a typical bow tie, but can be a scarf in certain concentrated lighting. Once you state move around, you see good fire still. I’m particular a fan of that video I took in dim lighting.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Appears to be what I count as a slight bowtie in the videos, but your eyes are the best judge and you appear to like it

 

[clcat120]

@tyty333 any further thoughts? Thank you!

 

[clcat120]

@tyty333 any further thoughts? Thank you!

And any thoughts @Karl_K Thank you!

 

[Karl_K]

And any thoughts @Karl_K Thank you!

It is different, that is for sure.
I'm not sure if I personally like it, I think the contrast between the middle part and the ends would drive me batty.
But I'm not the one wearing it so my personal feelings dont matter, yours do.
If it speaks to you and you enjoy it then that's great :}