btrflygrl23
Brilliant_Rock
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Platinum regrets anyone?
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arjunajane
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This thread is very topical for me, as I'm currently considering the big "WG vs Plat" question for my next project. (I always wear YG, so far I've not had to consider it).
I would like to ask the posters here a question if I may:
for me;
WG does not lose it's rhodium quickly at all. I'm talking one re-plating in ~2yrs. Not allergic.
Scratches and dings coming easier in plat would definitely bother me.
Plat and Gold are almost the same price atm, so I shouldn't have to pay *that much more* for plat over WG, but do have a budget in mind.
I don't have a clear preference for either.
Which would you choose if you were me?
I would like to ask the posters here a question if I may:
for me;
WG does not lose it's rhodium quickly at all. I'm talking one re-plating in ~2yrs. Not allergic.
Scratches and dings coming easier in plat would definitely bother me.
Plat and Gold are almost the same price atm, so I shouldn't have to pay *that much more* for plat over WG, but do have a budget in mind.
I don't have a clear preference for either.
Which would you choose if you were me?
stone-cold11
Super_Ideal_Rock
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What do you mean by same price? Spot prices? Yes, they are about the same, but in terms of volume use in a setting, no. You will always used more Pt in a piece than Gold (Ag) as Pt is denser and also purer when alloyed. Pt is about 21.5g/cm3 while Ag is 19.3g/cm3. Most Pt alloy is 90-95% Pt while Ag is 75% or lower
You can find harder Pt alloy than typical WG alloy, so scratch resistance can be overcome depending on the alloy used.
Gleam
Brilliant_Rock
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For me, I would choose platinum simply because I prefer to have the most precious things possible... whether it's the nicest diamond I can reasonably afford, or the metal the diamond is set in. White gold is lovely, but platinum is a more valuable metal. Which do you prefer the look of? If you don't have to pay much more for platinum, might as well make the upgrade.
arjunajane
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SC,
yes I was simply referring to the current market price as it has been relayed to me by various jewellers and reading on here, that Gold is almost up there with cost of Plat these days.
Basically I meant that we should not be receiving the type of quotes with an extra 1 to 1.5k (just for example) to use plat over WG.
I know plat is denser and will still be more expensive to use regardless - I did not say I expect to pay the same, you realize?
In my experience, vendors use one plat alloy and aren''t in the habit of changing on a clients'' whim.
Trust me, if I even ask 99% of Australian vendors what alloy they use, they will treat me like an alien!
If I would like a more scratch resistant alloy that is still bright and not grey, which alloy would you recommend SC?
arjunajane
Ideal_Rock
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Thankyou Gleam for your opinion, that makes sense.
TBH, I haven''t seen many plat pieces in person as it''s not nearly as common/popular here as it is in the US.
That said, I tried on both a WG and plat ring in a store the other day; looks-wise I couldn''t tell a difference, but the plat was noticeably heavier to try on.
That brings me to another question - do those with solid style plat rings find the heft distracting/uncomfortable at all?
It will not be an extremely delicate ring I am making.
Oh and fsu1227, I sincerely hope you don''t mind me adding my questions? - I thought it would be more relevant than starting a new thread.
stone-cold11
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Depends on what you want to achieve and what your chosen jeweler can work with. As you already knows, working with different Pt alloys requires different knowledge.
Typical WG (hardness value HV) is 125HV, so a Pt alloy with higher HV than that will be more scratch resistant than typical WG.
This article has a list of alloys.
http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/jewelry-platinum-alloy.htm
Pt950/Ru will have the highest content by weight of Pt but there are other system stated in the article that are much harder than Pt950/Ru.
Typical WG (hardness value HV) is 125HV, so a Pt alloy with higher HV than that will be more scratch resistant than typical WG.
This article has a list of alloys.
http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/jewelry-platinum-alloy.htm
Pt950/Ru will have the highest content by weight of Pt but there are other system stated in the article that are much harder than Pt950/Ru.
arjunajane
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elle_chris
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I think it depends on the setting you want. If it''s something where not too much metal is showing, like pave or a 3 stone ring, I''d do platinum since you won''t see too much of the metal anwyay and platinum prongs are safer.
If it''s a plainer setting with alot of the metal showing, stick with gold.
If it''s a plainer setting with alot of the metal showing, stick with gold.
stone-cold11
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Lovinggems
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arjunajane
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arjunajane
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Hey LG, thanks for your opinion.
I have liked unplated WG too since Coati got her JM.
My only concern with this is (and pls if anyone can answer) - everything/everyone says that WG is not actually a "true" white metal, which is why it is plated.
Usually, when WG starts showing some yellow etc, ppl have it re-rhodiumed. So how does this whole thing work with unplated WG?
How would that metal show wear and tear, and what would you do about it?
elle_chris
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Sorry I didn't make myself clearer. What i meant was, if the ring has a plain shank (no pave or extra stones set), where you can see more of the metal, white gold may work better as it will stay shiny and won't develop a patina. But if it's there's going to be pave, you won't really see the metal as the diamonds will cover the shank, and the color won't matter as much (since all you'll see are the stones) and platinum may be a better choice since it's more durable.
arjunajane
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elle_chris
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My e-ring is 90plat/10Iridium, less than 2 years old, and it's still shiny i think. BUT, i don't have any white gold pieces to compare it to. My wedding band is 95plat/5tungsten and it's a matte finish (meaning gray, but i think it the ring has character and I love it).
My 5 stone ring is whatever metal WF uses. I know it's 95plat but not sure if the rest is Irid or Ruth? and it's not very shiny but it's also older than my e-ring by a year. The colors between the 5 stone and e-ring are just slightly different. Just compared the two and the Iridium e-ring looks just a tiny bit whiter.
My 5 stone ring is whatever metal WF uses. I know it's 95plat but not sure if the rest is Irid or Ruth? and it's not very shiny but it's also older than my e-ring by a year. The colors between the 5 stone and e-ring are just slightly different. Just compared the two and the Iridium e-ring looks just a tiny bit whiter.
and what about a shank with bar set channel side diamonds-platinum or white gold? sorry to intrude...Date: 10/13/2009 11:17:04 AM
Author: arjunajane
no no thanks elle, that''s what I thought you meant, just wanted to confirm
Yes the ring will have a plain shank.
Yours is plat correct? Do you mind to share how often you have it polished (or do you like to keep the patina)?
elle_chris
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Volaz- I don''t think "bar set" is a safe choice to begin with. I''ve heard of stones getting loose in those types of settings. Other than that, ask you jeweler what they think.
If I''m going to be honest, I''m way over the "platinum is a pure metal blah blah blah" hype and if I didn''t have an allergic reaction to it, I would have gone with white gold for some pieces that didn''t require the durability of platinum (like my bezel pendant). But again, it depends on the setting and I''d ask my jeweler what they think is the safest choice.
If I''m going to be honest, I''m way over the "platinum is a pure metal blah blah blah" hype and if I didn''t have an allergic reaction to it, I would have gone with white gold for some pieces that didn''t require the durability of platinum (like my bezel pendant). But again, it depends on the setting and I''d ask my jeweler what they think is the safest choice.
Lovinggems
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I don''t have any unplated white gold jewellery but here''s a thread to help with your decision. I guess it''s to do with the quality of the alloy.Date: 10/13/2009 11:05:29 AM
Author: arjunajane
Hey LG, thanks for your opinion.
I have liked unplated WG too since Coati got her JM.
My only concern with this is (and pls if anyone can answer) - everything/everyone says that WG is not actually a ''true'' white metal, which is why it is plated.
Usually, when WG starts showing some yellow etc, ppl have it re-rhodiumed. So how does this whole thing work with unplated WG?
How would that metal show wear and tear, and what would you do about it?
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-does-unplated-white-gold-look-like-pics-please.125262/
arjunajane
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Thankyou Elle for comparing for me -
the vendor I will likely use said they can do both 95plat+Ru and 95plat+Ir, so I guess I need to do more research on these..
I have always been the same tbh with the "plat is the superior/best" metal jive - you will see this in my post history. I am really only considering it as the design I like lends itself quite a bit better to plat than WG I feel..
Cheers for your inpit, it''s been helpful.
arjunajane
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\Date: 10/13/2009 11:54:13 AM
Author: Lovinggems
I don''t have any unplated white gold jewellery but here''s a thread to help with your decision. I guess it''s to do with the quality of the alloy.Date: 10/13/2009 11:05:29 AM
Author: arjunajane
Hey LG, thanks for your opinion.
I have liked unplated WG too since Coati got her JM.
My only concern with this is (and pls if anyone can answer) - everything/everyone says that WG is not actually a ''true'' white metal, which is why it is plated.
Usually, when WG starts showing some yellow etc, ppl have it re-rhodiumed. So how does this whole thing work with unplated WG?
How would that metal show wear and tear, and what would you do about it?
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-does-unplated-white-gold-look-like-pics-please.125262/
Thanks LG for the link and your thoughts - I looked into this abit further and found my answers from a friend.
I think I would def. use it for a vintage style piece, such as a Jim JMeyer, however the design I''m doing is more modern, hence I think requires a whiter metal.
ChunkyCushionLover
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Platinum 90/10 Iridium or 95/5 Iridium is about 25-28% heavier than most common alloys of 18K WG.
PT 95/5 Ruthenium is a little lighter but not much.
You will still pay more for Platinum:
1) More weight for the same volume
2) Pt still costs more than gold per ounce. $1364 for PT $1065 for Gold as of Oct 13 in USD.
3) Labour costs are often more for Platinum as it requires more inert conditions and a specific skill set. (Some jewelers don't charge more for labour and are adept at both)
i) Pt unless plated is not as white as rhodium plated WG. 18K WG is naturally is less white than 14K WG but once plated they look the same.
ii) WG doesn't scratch or bend as easily but is more brittle and more prone to prongs breaks. WG is not chemically inert and can react with Halogens like Bromine, Chlorine, Ammonia and other oxidants.
iii) PT especially the high shine version scratches easily and forms a patina(scratched look) which some people like. It is not as white as WG but can be shinier depending on its finish. PT prongs do not break as easily and can bend a little bit under extreme pressure so that instead of a break it will just bend slightly or accept the stress without appreciable change. PT is chemically inert to most conditions like swimming pools(which have the halogens) and ammonia cleaning solutions. Pt does not lose any mass when polished and can be repolished quickly and easily.
iv) WG when polished can lose a layer and may have to be re rhodium replated every 6 months - 5 years depending on (body chemistry, amount of wear, quality of rhodium plating and how color sensitive the viewer is)
v) PT being chemically inert and mostly pure platinum produces less allergic reactions than people have to Gold. While 18K is usually fine many people react to 14k or lower, it is usually the other metals in the alloy like nickel that they react to not the gold itself.
Pt is often the metal of choice for Enagagement Rings for Durability reasons and also for the convenience of not having to replate.
18K WG is often the metal of choice for Earrings because weight matters and many people would like to keep them as light as possible. 14K for earrings is also a possibility as it is much lighter however it is much harder to cast and work with and for fine Pave work 18k is preferred by almost all jewelers. In earrings wear is less and with less exposure to skin chemistry the plating tends to last longer so this isn't as much an issue as with an ER.
Regards,
CCL
PT 95/5 Ruthenium is a little lighter but not much.
You will still pay more for Platinum:
1) More weight for the same volume
2) Pt still costs more than gold per ounce. $1364 for PT $1065 for Gold as of Oct 13 in USD.
3) Labour costs are often more for Platinum as it requires more inert conditions and a specific skill set. (Some jewelers don't charge more for labour and are adept at both)
i) Pt unless plated is not as white as rhodium plated WG. 18K WG is naturally is less white than 14K WG but once plated they look the same.
ii) WG doesn't scratch or bend as easily but is more brittle and more prone to prongs breaks. WG is not chemically inert and can react with Halogens like Bromine, Chlorine, Ammonia and other oxidants.
iii) PT especially the high shine version scratches easily and forms a patina(scratched look) which some people like. It is not as white as WG but can be shinier depending on its finish. PT prongs do not break as easily and can bend a little bit under extreme pressure so that instead of a break it will just bend slightly or accept the stress without appreciable change. PT is chemically inert to most conditions like swimming pools(which have the halogens) and ammonia cleaning solutions. Pt does not lose any mass when polished and can be repolished quickly and easily.
iv) WG when polished can lose a layer and may have to be re rhodium replated every 6 months - 5 years depending on (body chemistry, amount of wear, quality of rhodium plating and how color sensitive the viewer is)
v) PT being chemically inert and mostly pure platinum produces less allergic reactions than people have to Gold. While 18K is usually fine many people react to 14k or lower, it is usually the other metals in the alloy like nickel that they react to not the gold itself.
Pt is often the metal of choice for Enagagement Rings for Durability reasons and also for the convenience of not having to replate.
18K WG is often the metal of choice for Earrings because weight matters and many people would like to keep them as light as possible. 14K for earrings is also a possibility as it is much lighter however it is much harder to cast and work with and for fine Pave work 18k is preferred by almost all jewelers. In earrings wear is less and with less exposure to skin chemistry the plating tends to last longer so this isn't as much an issue as with an ER.
Regards,
CCL
stone-cold11
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Actually, Pt alloy and WG comparison on scratch resistance and ductility needs to be dependent on the alloys used. Also, regarding polishing, from my understanding, it is actually easier to polish metal that wears off, so WG should be easier, less time consuming, to polish then Pt alloy most of the time, depending on the alloy characteristics.
ChunkyCushionLover
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Yes agreed. WG would need less polishing so I didn't mention it but yes it is easier to polish than Pt but neither is difficult. Those statements refer to 18K WG an alloy which is (75% Gold 18% Silver 5.5% Zinc and traces of other elements 1% Cu often) which is the average common 18K WG.
For more info on the PT alloys here is a decent reference http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/platinum-alloys.htm (oops already posted)
arjunajane
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Thanks CCl for all the info, good stuff.
What is your personal opinion on 95/5Ir plat compared to 95/5Ru plat?
Also, is it correct that you need someone reasonably experienced/skilled to polish a plat ring?
Seeing as I won't be buying locally, the jewellers here are notorious for not wanting to help you in any way if you didn't buy from them - so the polishing thing does concern me a lil..
arjunajane
Ideal_Rock
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Hi DavR,
My setting will likely be more than the stone I am setting in either metal, so I guess that doesn''t factor
I am leaning toward plat.
I don''t know much about Palladium, and pretty much no one uses it where I live (Australia), so I would be concerned if I needed any maintenance etc about ignorance of the alloy..
Mrs Mitchell
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Interesting thread! My niece just changed her setting from WG to plat, exactly the same setting, just a different metal, so we were talking about this.
Personally, I don''t care for WG for rings, but I''m one of the people who can strip the rhodium off WG just by looking at it. If I could keep it white, then that would be 50% of the decision for me. The next 40% is the weight - I love the heavy feel of a platinum ring. To me, it feels like proper grown up stuff lol. The final 10% of the decision for me is that I just want it to be platinum because I think of it as the ultimate precious metal.
All that said, I always go for WG for earrings and necklaces, for much the same reasons. I dislike the weight of platinum for earrings especially, and earrings and necklaces don''t seem to lose their rhodium like rings do (for me). There''s still 10% of me that would rather have platinum even then! (I''m just hard to please haha.)
I like the patina that platinum gets, and when I feel like a ''new'' ring, I get it polished and let the patina build up again over time. Well, it keeps me entertained.
Jen
Personally, I don''t care for WG for rings, but I''m one of the people who can strip the rhodium off WG just by looking at it. If I could keep it white, then that would be 50% of the decision for me. The next 40% is the weight - I love the heavy feel of a platinum ring. To me, it feels like proper grown up stuff lol. The final 10% of the decision for me is that I just want it to be platinum because I think of it as the ultimate precious metal.
All that said, I always go for WG for earrings and necklaces, for much the same reasons. I dislike the weight of platinum for earrings especially, and earrings and necklaces don''t seem to lose their rhodium like rings do (for me). There''s still 10% of me that would rather have platinum even then! (I''m just hard to please haha.)
I like the patina that platinum gets, and when I feel like a ''new'' ring, I get it polished and let the patina build up again over time. Well, it keeps me entertained.
Jen
LGK
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AJ, I have some unplated white gold rings. Basically they just get a few scratches, but not as many as PT. You can get them repolished but you get a bit more metal loss over the years doing that. (Though honestly, I''m not real sure how much difference this really makes over the years- most of the antique rings I see at work have pretty similar wear no matter what the metal is.) I have never had my unplated white gold polished, they''re filigree and don''t show wear really.
I would probably go white gold for a modern type of jewelry piece. I don''t like the scratching/patina you get with undecorated platinum jewelry. (I ilke PT just fine with filigree/micropave pieces, though, where the patina doesn''t show.) For a setting like you''re describing, I''d probably not get platinum- the patina is a drawback in my book (though of course some people like the look!) and the expense also.
If you get a PT ring worked on later, like sized or prongs redone, make SURE your jeweler uses platinum solder. I have found several platinum rings sized up with a chunk fo white gold, which doesn''t hold well. A lot of jewelers will just use gold solder because it saves them money.
Also have you explored the 14K/Palladium alloys? I have a few rings with that alloy and they stay bright, bright white and are unplated. Harder to find a jeweler using that alloy though I presume.
I would probably go white gold for a modern type of jewelry piece. I don''t like the scratching/patina you get with undecorated platinum jewelry. (I ilke PT just fine with filigree/micropave pieces, though, where the patina doesn''t show.) For a setting like you''re describing, I''d probably not get platinum- the patina is a drawback in my book (though of course some people like the look!) and the expense also.
If you get a PT ring worked on later, like sized or prongs redone, make SURE your jeweler uses platinum solder. I have found several platinum rings sized up with a chunk fo white gold, which doesn''t hold well. A lot of jewelers will just use gold solder because it saves them money.
Also have you explored the 14K/Palladium alloys? I have a few rings with that alloy and they stay bright, bright white and are unplated. Harder to find a jeweler using that alloy though I presume.
coda72
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There has been a bit of discussion lately about the different platinum alloys, so I thought I would relate my personal experience. I have a Tiffany Pt/Ru ring that I got about a year ago. With occasional wear it has quite a few dings and dents on it. It''s still pretty shiny, but it shows more wear than I thought this alloy would. It is worn as a stand alone ring. My e-ring that I got 4 years ago and is probably the Pt/Ir alloy without knowing for sure, seems to have less dings and dents in it than the Tiffany ring. It is worn with a w-ring that sits slightly higher, so that probably saves it from some wear. Truthfully though, I haven''t seen any difference in how these two alloys wear over time. That is just my input though, and people may have different experiences than me. Also, I am hard on my rings since I work with my hands all day long. (I have a white gold ring that is just as scratched up as my platinum rings, and it''s about 2 years old.)
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Past, Present, Future: The Meaning of Three-Stone Engagement Rings - 04/14
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