Please help me design a perfect tsavorite e-ring!

[giff1023]

I agree that the ATG stone is lovely and very close to what I'm looking for. I have been in contact with Allen at ATG and in fact did make an offer on the 1.65 ct tsav. Unfortunately for me, their pricing is firm and I can't really justify almost $3000 for that size. According to Allen, they base their pricing on wholesale prices from The Guide (2010) (See below. Please let me know if it is inappropriate to share this or other communication with vendors. I am not aware of proper protocol on this board.) I do wish the guide had split out 1-2ct and 2+ based on TL's observation on the rarity of 2+ stones vs 1-2...



Still looking, so if anyone sees a great tsav out there, please let me know!

 

[T L]

For the price of the ATG cushion, you might as well go with a precision cut gem. I think their prices are rather high, but they are retail as "The Guide" shows. Other dealers can get you a better price on the same material.

 

[giff1023]

A few more options from Bruce at Tsavorite USA. I may ask for additional photos of the ones I've attached here. I'm not sure if they aren't jumping out at me more because of the photography or due to poorer cut than some of the others that I've been looking at.

B) Tsavorite, Cushion, 1.53 carats, 7.77 x 6.09 mm, Medium-Dark (vibrant
forest green) colour tone, Eye-Clean clarity

E) Tsavorite, Cushion, 2.14 carats, 8.68 x 6.98 mm, Medium-Dark (vibrant
forest green) colour tone, Eye-Clean clarity,

F) Tsavorite, Cushion, 2.41 carats, 8.67 x 6.77 mm, Medium-Plus (vibrant
rich grass green) colour tone, Eye-Clean clarity,


The 1.5ct is quite reasonably priced, the 2.1 is at the top end of my budget, and the 2.4 is out of my range (The set of 6 that he sent me also nicely confirm TL's impression that price/ct significantly jumps at >2ct). These three look nice to me, but none of them really are screaming "I'm the one". Also less square than I am hoping for, but I do like the color.

 

[T L]

A few more options from Bruce at Tsavorite USA. I may ask for additional photos of the ones I've attached here. I'm not sure if they aren't jumping out at me more because of the photography or due to poorer cut than some of the others that I've been looking at.

B) Tsavorite, Cushion, 1.53 carats, 7.77 x 6.09 mm, Medium-Dark (vibrant
forest green) colour tone, Eye-Clean clarity

E) Tsavorite, Cushion, 2.14 carats, 8.68 x 6.98 mm, Medium-Dark (vibrant
forest green) colour tone, Eye-Clean clarity,

F) Tsavorite, Cushion, 2.41 carats, 8.67 x 6.77 mm, Medium-Plus (vibrant
rich grass green) colour tone, Eye-Clean clarity,


The 1.5ct is quite reasonably priced, the 2.1 is at the top end of my budget, and the 2.4 is out of my range (The set of 6 that he sent me also nicely confirm TL's impression that price/ct significantly jumps at >2ct). These three look nice to me, but none of them really are screaming "I'm the one". Also less square than I am hoping for, but I do like the color.

I hate to be harsh to the man who's father discovered tsavorites, but IF the photos are accurate, those are some unattractive olive green colors (lots of grey and brown and too dark tone). I'm sorry if I offend, as I know Bruce has his fans here. Maybe those are just really bad photographs.

ETA: I see he describes them as "forest green," but I take that to look like a dark greyish green. I would ask him if it's very slightly bluish green, or if it veers more toward pure green or yellowish green, and I would ask him if there's any grey or brown in the stone. That is a better way to describe color than a metaphor like "forest green" which is subjective.

 

[T L]

double post, sorry.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Ah the elusive Tsav hunt. Best of luck! I'm a sucker for a good tsav. I have one in a ring that is one of my favorite treasures even though it's only just shy of a carat. I'm sure your fiancé to be will be thrilled!

 

[chrono]

I am not loving those tsavorites but I'm hoping it is merely poor photography. The tone one the first one is dark to me. The second one is the nicest, while the 3rd is very desaturated. The cut isn't bad at all although the 2nd stone shows some degree of banding across the middle.

 

[Pandora II]

Having seen previous Bruce pics and then much better pics of the same stones then I would trust his descriptions 100%. (I'm fairly good at reading tsav pictures these days and I would think those will be very similar to my stone in colour - a definite blue tone)

I think all will be on a par with the ATG stone in real life. I prefer them to the Swala stone.

 

[giff1023]

Here is an additional picture of the Swala stone.



I do tend to agree with Pandora that I'm seeing blue rather than olive in Bruce's stones, but I am definitely asking for more pictures (and more squarish stones if possible). It is fairly amazing how much the quality of photography alters perceptions of tsavorite. Very difficult for me to compare vendor to vendor.

 

[T L]

Speaking only about the photographs (who knows if they look like the stones IRL), I don't see saturation of hue, or strength of color. I do see a lot of grey in there, which desaturates the hue, whether that's bluish green, green, yellowish green, etc. . . I agree with Chrono that the bottom stone is the most desaturated.

If you look on the prior page to the photo I posted of Chrono's stone from Swala, I see a great deal of saturation of color, and no grey. I also do not see extinction like I do with these latest stones. You need to ask him if there's grey in there and/or brown, and what the actual hue and tone are. I know he mentions the tone in the above photos, but some seem a bit darker than what he claims them to be. I suspect the photos may be very inaccurate, and I hope they are. Perhaps you like a darker tone, and that's a matter of preference.

Of course, green is very difficult to photograph properly, so there's some limitations there. I personally think the best way to purchase a tsavorite is to go to a large gem show and view a great deal of them, but I know that's not feasible for everyone.

 

[T L]

Here is an additional picture of the Swala stone.



I do tend to agree with Pandora that I'm seeing blue rather than olive in Bruce's stones, but I am definitely asking for more pictures (and more squarish stones if possible). It is fairly amazing how much the quality of photography alters perceptions of tsavorite. Very difficult for me to compare vendor to vendor.

I see no blue, just a pure green color. Again, photography of green stones is a nightmare. Did Eric say there was blue in the stone? You really need to ask these questions about saturation, hue and tone to get a good idea of what the stone may look like IRL, as a photograph is simply not enough in the case of green stones.

 

[T L]

Forgot to mention, I think the Swala stone is prettier than the first photo he gave you, and if you don't care about the elusive bluish green, then I think it's pretty.

 

[chel180]

Here is an additional picture of the Swala stone.



I do tend to agree with Pandora that I'm seeing blue rather than olive in Bruce's stones, but I am definitely asking for more pictures (and more squarish stones if possible). It is fairly amazing how much the quality of photography alters perceptions of tsavorite. Very difficult for me to compare vendor to vendor.

I see no blue, just a pure green color. Again, photography of green stones is a nightmare. Did Eric say there was blue in the stone? You really need to ask these questions about saturation, hue and tone to get a good idea of what the stone may look like IRL, as a photograph is simply not enough in the case of green stones.

I don't know anything about tsav not have I bbought anything from swala gems so take what I say with a pinch of salt! But I know what I like, and that's beautiful. For what its worth I only see pure emerald green.

 

[chrono]

I have no clue as to the setup of Bruce's tsavorites but can say that they look unflattering and olive. Based on his reputation though, I hope that they look vastly better in real life.

As for the lastest Swala stone, the tone looks almost a medium dark and there is a hint of blue if you look at the upper facets. Again, I am making the assumption that his photograph is accurate.

To eliminate the guesswork of trying to get a feel of what the stones look like, ask the vendors these quesions:
1. What is the hue of the stone? Is it slightly bluish green, spectral green or yellowish green?
2. Does it colour shift? How is the colour outdoors versus indoor lighting?
3. What is the tone? (think we've got that covered already though since it is stated to be medium dark).
4. What is the saturation? Medium / Strong / Vivid?

Terms like forest green is subjective. Forest green can mean different things to different people. After all, depending on the type of trees there, they could be yellowish green, green or with a conifer type forest, bits of bluish green. It is helpful to be as specific and quantitative/qualititative as possible.

 

[T L]

Terms like forest green is subjective. Forest green can mean different things to different people. After all, depending on the type of trees there, they could be yellowish green, green or with a conifer type forest, bits of bluish green. It is helpful to be as specific and quantitative/qualititative as possible.

Or a forest in Switzerland, or a tropical rain forest, etc. . .

Terms like "emerald green" are subjective too because even emeralds come in various hues and tones. African emeralds are not the same as Colombian emeralds, and even Colombian emeralds differ from one another.

Sorry to be a stickler on metaphors, and I understand why dealers use them, but it's best to be up front with the actual hue, saturation and tone. Color (hue) is only one aspect of a gem, and there are many other variables to consider.

 

[Harriet]

Hi Giff1023

I've seen these stones in real life. The posted pics do not resemble them at all. I've also seen Bruce's photo studio, which has top of the line equipment.

Are you, by any chance, viewing them over your e-mail and posting a screen cap or direct e-mail port? If so, the pics are highly compressed, which would make them inaccurate representations. Try downloading them to your hard drive, viewing them, and then uploading them.

Good luck!

 

[giff1023]

Thank you for all the opinions and advice! Bruce has been an absolute pleasure to interact with so far, and quickly sent me some additional photos. These are much higher resolution than the original ones and taken under natural lighting.

I'm having a little trouble importing them now (ironically the photo import just keeps adding more copies of the ATG stone no matter what file I'm selecting. Maybe PriceScope is trying to tell me something... ) I will try again tomorrow, but it is safe to say that they look substantially different to me and much better.

Chrono and TL, thanks for the advice on how to properly question vendors on the stone properties. As you say, that will be very helpful in trying to get a proper impression of these pieces.

 

[giff1023]

Wasn't able to upload directly, but here are the two Bruce stones that I asked to see additional pictures of. This is in natural light. Looks like a nice rich green. I don't see blue or yellow modifiers.

1.53ct Cushion
http://tinypic.com/r/iyonr6/5

2.1ct Cushion
http://tinypic.com/r/rw6k4l/5

 

[T L]

Green, in particular dark bluish green, is really hard to photograph. If Bruce has a decent return policy (I don't know, never bought anything from him), you should see them in person. I personally don't want to comment on the color, as I don't think the photographs are accurate, from what everyone says about his great quality. I will just say the tone is darker than my personal preference for tsavorites, but that's my preference, which may not necessarily be yours.

I have some fine medium dark Muzo Colombian emeralds in a bluish green color, and I can appreciate how difficult it is to get an accurate photographic depiction of the true color. I give up photographing them, and I suspect the same thing is true for darker tsavorites. I've had more luck with photographing lighter toned bluish green stones.

I don't know much about you, but I suspect your eye isn't trained to spot modifiers. In my opinion, and others, it's really important to view many many stones of various qualities of the species you're interested in, in person, to see modifiers properly. Grey and brown are modifiers, not blue and yellow (hues). Yellow is considered a hue, but it's typically less desired as a secondary color in some stones, like tsavorites. The more of a modifier, the less saturated the gem, so you want them to be as minimal as possible as they impede the strength of the hue (saturation). I've seen tsavorites with grey, brown and yellow, so any of those modifiers/hues can get in these stones. Olive is typically a combination of grey, brown, yellow with a primary of green.

 

[pregcurious]

I have bought from Bruce, and can say that his written description is honest, and he is very good to work with. I would buy from him again, and his pricing is fair.

I suggest going to ATG to look at tsavs. My post was to suggest a place near Boston where you could see stones. I have never bought from ATG, and am completely neutral about them. The more stones you see on person, the better judge you will become.

 

[Arkteia]

Chrono, your stone is amazing!

 

[LD]

Giff - can you confirm exactly what you're looking for? If you're looking for a stone with blue (like Chrono's) then I doubt whether the Bridges Tsavs will be like that or indeed any of the others. The Bridges Tsavs look very dark (I appreciate they may not be but we only have photos to go on so it's difficult to say precisely).

I don't like seeing any olive in stones in general and when I look at the Bridges ones they're not appealing because of that. As I say, it may well be the photos. I also know that the "best" colour in Tsavs (like Pandora's for example) is darker than I prefer.

So that's why I'm asking because it's important to know what YOU want. Do you want a lighter or darker stone and do you mind seeing blue or yellow?

 

[Pandora II]

I believe that my stone is very similar in colour to the stones that Bruce has sent photos of.

It will come down to what colour you like? I like the mediums (I own a few)... right up until I put them next to a good medium-dark and then there is no contest for me.

 

[T L]

I believe that my stone is very similar in colour to the stones that Bruce has sent photos of.

It will come down to what colour you like? I like the mediums (I own a few)... right up until I put them next to a good medium-dark and then there is no contest for me.

Pandora,
Yes, but aren't those exceptionately rare? How long did it take you to find your stone? I think the problem is that it may take a long while to find something the quality of your gem, if you can even find it, and he may have better luck with a mediums (unless he prefers medium darks overall). Just a thought.

There is something to be said too about selling to someone that really knows gems, like Pandora. A vendor will often scope the top top of their inventory to satisfy someone with a great eye for color vs. a novice. However, if you ask the right questions, they may realize you're a very discriminating gemstone buyer.

 

[Harriet]

Medium-darks are rare. That said, Bruce mines the material. Incidentally, he strives to find the right stone for each client, regardless of the person's experience.

 

[T L]

Medium-darks are rare. That said, Bruce mines the material. Incidentally, he strives to find the right stone for each client, regardless of the person's experience.

You mean, high quality bluish green medium darks are rare? I've seen lots of mediocre medium darks.

 

[Harriet]

TL, I assume "fine quality" to be a given where it comes to gems.

As to the medium vs. medium-dark debate, note that Giff1023's "inspirations" are Pandora and Pokey's gems. Both are of medium-dark tone and Pandora's is known to have come from Bruce's inventory.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I know I'm a sucker for medium-darks.
I think mine is somewhere between medium dark and dark, but thought I'd contribute one more photo for reference.



Honestly, when I think ideal med dark tsav, I think the first one that pops to my mind is Tsavvys Leon ring, and I believe the stone is from Swala



https://www.pricescope.com/communit...que-ring-with-ec-tsavorite-trapezoids.131062/

 

[giff1023]

Wow, super busy weekend. This is the first chance I've had to stop by and catch up!

Just wanted to say that I'm still learning a lot about tsavorite colors/hues/modifiers. I started this thread having seen (and loved) Pandora and Pokey's rings, but I also love Chrono's blue-green stone as well! It is definitely challenging trying to decide between the two hues: honestly, I know I'd be happy with either. BTW, it is extraordinarily difficult to casually start a conversation on what exact shade of green my girlfriend likes (since I'm trying to keep this is a surprise)! I think I'm leaning towards a blue-green maybe a shade or two darker than Chrono's.

I've decided against the Swala tsav since it is at the very upper end of my budget and I'm not in love with it (very nice, though), and I don't think any of the Bruce stones quite suit me (though we are still in contact). Fortunately, I do have plenty of time to look - my tentative time frame is for a finished ring by mid-summer or so. It's been a little bit of a whirlwind so far just contacting all these vendors, seeing so many stones... I feel like I'm still trying to get my feet under me. It has been extraordinarily helpful having all of you throwing out stones, ideas, and feedback - it's really helping me to get an idea of what to look for and helping me figure out what I like.

 

[Pandora II]

I believe that my stone is very similar in colour to the stones that Bruce has sent photos of.

It will come down to what colour you like? I like the mediums (I own a few)... right up until I put them next to a good medium-dark and then there is no contest for me.

Pandora,
Yes, but aren't those exceptionately rare? How long did it take you to find your stone? I think the problem is that it may take a long while to find something the quality of your gem, if you can even find it, and he may have better luck with a mediums (unless he prefers medium darks overall). Just a thought.

There is something to be said too about selling to someone that really knows gems, like Pandora. A vendor will often scope the top top of their inventory to satisfy someone with a great eye for color vs. a novice. However, if you ask the right questions, they may realize you're a very discriminating gemstone buyer.

Yes they are pretty rare - my heart beats faster when I see them at gem shows/collections!

It took a couple of months to find mine - in the end it came from Pala... and I learned recently that it was from the Bridges mine, which makes it extra special for me, given that Campbell was a Scottish gemmologist (my parents are Scots) and that he actually discovered Tsavorite.

Mine stone is also loupe-clean (which is actually a bit of a bugger as it has no ID features!) which is also rare.

I'll admit now that one of personal 'oh yikes' moments are when friends ask me to help with a coloured stone e-ring as a suprise. The tsavorite one was easy - she loved mine so I knew what shade to get, but it's such a personal thing. One couple asked me to help them out and were convinced they wanted a ruby (but not Burmese) and ended up with a periwinkle blue sapphire - I lent them a load of both natural and synthetic stones from my collection to take home and play with for a week so they could see different colours on her hand in different lights and so when they came back I had a very definite decision on colour which was so helpful in making sure that she loved the ring.