Please help me design a perfect tsavorite e-ring!

[LD]

As Giff is looking for a medium dark but with blue can somebody please post up a photo of one? I'm struggling to see how it's possible and, as I've never seen one and would be interested! I've seen medium green with no modifiers, medium green with yellow, medium green with grey etc but not one with blue! I may be totally wrong but doesn't the blue occur mainly in medium stones rather than medium dark?

 

[T L]

As Giff is looking for a medium dark but with blue can somebody please post up a photo of one? I'm struggling to see how it's possible and, as I've never seen one and would be interested! I've seen medium green with no modifiers, medium green with yellow, medium green with grey etc but not one with blue! I may be totally wrong but doesn't the blue occur mainly in medium stones rather than medium dark?

LD,
They exist. I own a medium dark with blue in it, especially in artificial light, they go more blue. I prefer the mediums and medium lights with blue, but the medium darks are a complete pain to photograph properly, like emeralds. Of course, we all have our preferences. My favorite tsavorite, if you could call it a tsavorite, is my mint garnet. These are the best photos I could get of it showing a bit of blue. It's more bluish green IRL.



bluish sparkles here.

 

[T L]

I believe that my stone is very similar in colour to the stones that Bruce has sent photos of.

It will come down to what colour you like? I like the mediums (I own a few)... right up until I put them next to a good medium-dark and then there is no contest for me.

Pandora,
Yes, but aren't those exceptionately rare? How long did it take you to find your stone? I think the problem is that it may take a long while to find something the quality of your gem, if you can even find it, and he may have better luck with a mediums (unless he prefers medium darks overall). Just a thought.

There is something to be said too about selling to someone that really knows gems, like Pandora. A vendor will often scope the top top of their inventory to satisfy someone with a great eye for color vs. a novice. However, if you ask the right questions, they may realize you're a very discriminating gemstone buyer.

Yes they are pretty rare - my heart beats faster when I see them at gem shows/collections!

It took a couple of months to find mine - in the end it came from Pala... and I learned recently that it was from the Bridges mine, which makes it extra special for me, given that Campbell was a Scottish gemmologist (my parents are Scots) and that he actually discovered Tsavorite.

Mine stone is also loupe-clean (which is actually a bit of a bugger as it has no ID features!) which is also rare.

I'll admit now that one of personal 'oh yikes' moments are when friends ask me to help with a coloured stone e-ring as a suprise. The tsavorite one was easy - she loved mine so I knew what shade to get, but it's such a personal thing. One couple asked me to help them out and were convinced they wanted a ruby (but not Burmese) and ended up with a periwinkle blue sapphire - I lent them a load of both natural and synthetic stones from my collection to take home and play with for a week so they could see different colours on her hand in different lights and so when they came back I had a very definite decision on colour which was so helpful in making sure that she loved the ring.

Pandora,
That's very nice of you to help your friends find the perfect gems. I can see that tsavorites are a joy of yours. Is your stone from the Scorpion mine?

 

[Arkteia]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/oh-and-need-another-advice-tsavorite.134809/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/oh-and-need-another-advice-tsavorite.134809/[/URL]

I am posting a link to my old thread about tsavorites (see, I was doing the same thing, LOL!) with a great montage from Gailey...

FYI - I bought "the one from Lisa that is available", they posted a link. Hope it helps! I saw Lisa's tsavorite with my own eyes before buying, and most of my tsavorites were seen before purchase, except for what I bought from Tan, but Tan's stones were not expensive. (Great variation in colors though!). My personal advise would be to go to shows and look before you buy, because tsavorites come in so many shades, I personally prefer darkish-blue but yesterday at Seattle show I saw a ring with light-green-tsavorite-with-fantastic-sparkle that I nearly bought for myself! Unlike spessartites, tsavorites do not photograph too well so it is better to see with your own eyes.

 

[anythingorange]

First, this is a great thread! I'm thoroughly enjoying looking at all of the pretty stones.

TL, is the Tsavorite in your Spess/Tsav bypass ring considered to be medium or medium-dark tone?

 

[T L]

---

 

[T L]

First, this is a great thread! I'm thoroughly enjoying looking at all of the pretty stones.

TL, is the Tsavorite in your Spess/Tsav bypass ring considered to be medium or medium-dark tone?

Medium dark.

Here's my medium for reference.



and medium light

 

[Pandora II]

Buying gemstones with other people's money... what could be more fun? Plus it's so much easier to decide for others!

LD, I've almost always seen the blue tones in the medium-darks. I have a pair of earrings with 10 tsavorites each of 1 carat. Two of the stones are medium dark and the rest are mediums, one of the medium darks has slight blue tones, none of the mediums do.

I also have around 6 tsavorites in my collection - two are medium-darks and show the blue tone. The others are all mediums, and are much more grass-green.

One of the things we were always taught on the FGA course was that colour was subjective when judged by the eye, and so what may look blue toned to one person may not look blue toned to another. I remember a group of us trying to decide on the colour of a particular ruby - I thought it tended towards the orange, but others thought towards the purple. Some said red-red, others thought it more of a pink. We were all viewing it under the same light at the same time.

 

[anythingorange]

First, this is a great thread! I'm thoroughly enjoying looking at all of the pretty stones.

TL, is the Tsavorite in your Spess/Tsav bypass ring considered to be medium or medium-dark tone?

Medium dark.

Here's my medium for reference.



and medium light

Ah, thanks. I think my preference is medium-dark.

And just how many rings do you have?! Boy, would I love to play in your jewelry box!

 

[anythingorange]

Buying gemstones with other people's money... what could be more fun? Plus it's so much easier to decide for others!

LD, I've almost always seen the blue tones in the medium-darks. I have a pair of earrings with 10 tsavorites each of 1 carat. Two of the stones are medium dark and the rest are mediums, one of the medium darks has slight blue tones, none of the mediums do.

I also have around 6 tsavorites in my collection - two are medium-darks and show the blue tone. The others are all mediums, and are much more grass-green.

One of the things we were always taught on the FGA course was that colour was subjective when judged by the eye, and so what may look blue toned to one person may not look blue toned to another. I remember a group of us trying to decide on the colour of a particular ruby - I thought it tended towards the orange, but others thought towards the purple. Some said red-red, others thought it more of a pink. We were all viewing it under the same light at the same time.

Photos, please?

 

[T L]

Ah, thanks. I think my preference is medium-dark.

And just how many rings do you have?! Boy, would I love to play in your jewelry box! :cheeky
:

I actually do not favor the stone in my pear spess/tsav ring, and I'm thinking of replacing it actually. I don't like medium dark gems very much, unless they're emeralds, which I think should be medium dark to show off their beauty the most. However, that doesn't mean medium darks are bad. We all like what we like.

 

[anythingorange]

Ah, thanks. I think my preference is medium-dark.

And just how many rings do you have?! Boy, would I love to play in your jewelry box! :cheeky
:

I actually do not favor the stone in my pear spess/tsav ring, and I'm thinking of replacing it actually. I don't like medium dark gems very much, unless they're emeralds, which I think should be medium dark to show off their beauty the most. However, that doesn't mean medium darks are bad. We all like what we like.

! Really?!

Hmmm...let's see...I think there's somewhere here where we can buy previously loved stones...

 

[Starzin]

Gaaah! MTG that is GORGEOUS!!!!

 

[giff1023]

Holy cow that's a lot of tsavorites, what an awesome montage!

Bruce opened my eyes a little bit about how different cameras and lighting really change the appearance of a stone and warned me not to try to chase photographs (and like everyone else here recommended I see as many as possible in person). Here is the same "medium" 1.4ct cushion photographed 3 ways: two with a professional dslr (one indoors, one in natural light), and one with a point and shoot in different lighting. You could have told me that they were three different stones and I would have believed it. Wow.

After going back through the thread that Arketia posted, those handshots of Pokey's ring just blow me away. I want that.
I do love the idea of having blue in the stone, but it really seems like the blue is quite elusive. It just peeks out in certain lighting conditions.

 

[chrono]

It is true about different cameras and lighting, which is why the buyer is always advised to request a handshot of the stone under natural lighting.

Picture 1: probably the worst of the group, which is surprising since it was used using DSLR. That said, many stones perform poorly indoors. You could say that this is the worst the stone will appear. Sadly, it looks olive green on my monitor.

Picture 2: probably the most accurate picture because it is a handshot and taken using natural lighting. I do wish I can see it from the face front position though. It is difficult to tell the colour but the half I can see appears grass green (yellowish green).

Picture 3: Looks like flash photograhpy was used which I do not trust at all.

 

[T L]

It is true about different cameras and lighting, which is why the buyer is always advised to request a handshot of the stone under natural lighting.

Picture 1: probably the worst of the group, which is surprising since it was used using DSLR. That said, many stones perform poorly indoors. You could say that this is the worst the stone will appear. Sadly, it looks olive green on my monitor.

Picture 2: probably the most accurate picture because it is a handshot and taken using natural lighting. I do wish I can see it from the face front position though. It is difficult to tell the colour but the half I can see appears grass green (yellowish green).

Picture 3: Looks like flash photograhpy was used which I do not trust at all.

Picture 2 reminds me of an average peridot. I agree, it probably is the most accurate of the three.

To the OP, did you show him Pokey's stone? Tell him that's what you want as close as possible.

 

[giff1023]

TL, you are a mind reader. I just sent him 3 pictures of Pokey's ring and told him that that was my ideal end result.

Two hand shots (looks like there may have been flash or another bright light source) and the vendor photo which appears much darker.

 

[T L]

TL, you are a mind reader. I just sent him 3 pictures of Pokey's ring and told him that that was my ideal end result.

Two hand shots (looks like there may have been flash or another bright light source) and the vendor photo which appears much darker.

Well, the stone photos he's sending you are not nearly close to Pokey's stone, but did he say they were IRL?

 

[giff1023]

I just sent him the photos of Pokey's ring about an hour ago, so this will be the first he's seen of it. Haven't heard back yet.

 

[Harriet]

Giff1023,

You're right. The blue secondary in tsavorite is subtle. Look at the ones on Bruce's site: http://www.tsavorite.com/mine/mine-to-market.html I own the shield and am familiar with the cushion. Both have a lot of blue (for tsavorite), but the hue just doesn't show up in photographs.

 

[Harriet]

Garnets are not pleochroic unlike, say, tourmaline. They and other singly refractive stones will not exhibit strong secondaries.

 

[T L]

Here's a nice photo of a medium dark showing some blue. Is this also pokey's ring?

 

[Pandora II]

Yes it is.

I had my stone matched to the Pokey stone...

 

[LD]

Pandora/TL - thank you for the blue explanation. Interestingly I think my idea of "medium dark" is probably not "medium dark" at all and is much more "dark"! I think that's why I'm struggling with the blue. I do understand that people see colours very differently but I'm not usually that far out! I think Tsavs are just not my field of experience!!!! I need to recalibrate my brain/eyes now so that medium dark is lighter than I think the name suggests and then I'll be ok!

Giff - I agree with the comments about the new photos. I think that no.2 is probably the most accurate but I see lots of yellow.

Off to recalibrate myself now!

 

[giff1023]

The more I look at the Bruce 2.1ct stone the more I like it. After looking at the Pokey stone, he thinks this (stone E) is almost identical in color and stone B from the earlier post is half a shade darker. Chrono's is 2-3 shades lighter, and he considers it a medium rather than a med-dark. Pokey's is a "true med-dark, assuredly from Kenya". I think I'm going to take a look at the 2.1ct in person and also he has a antique cushion half a shade lighter that is currently out, so I'd like to see that as well.

Both Bruce and Eric agree that it is very difficult to capture blue in a tsavorite and that photos are unreliable. Eric went as far as to say that the notion of a blue-green tsavorite is a misconception:

"They can be light, medium or dark tone. Some may more or less be yellow, other purer green but non qualify as blue-green and none never have a total absence of yellow. If you put any tsavorite under a traditional incandescent light bulb, the gem will show some yellow (more or less according to the stone). This being said, some tsavorite appear with a slight blueish undertone. But really keep in mind that tsavorites are green and will always – including those with a blue undertone – display some yellow under certain conditions. After all, green is a mixture of blue and yellow."

Just for fun, I have another tsavorite from Gene. I don't think it's quite right for me, but the more tsavs in this thread the better!

 

[T L]

The more I look at the Bruce 2.1ct stone the more I like it. After looking at the Pokey stone, he thinks this (stone E) is almost identical in color and stone B from the earlier post is half a shade darker. Chrono's is 2-3 shades lighter, and he considers it a medium rather than a med-dark. Pokey's is a "true med-dark, assuredly from Kenya". I think I'm going to take a look at the 2.1ct in person and also he has a antique cushion half a shade lighter that is currently out, so I'd like to see that as well.

Both Bruce and Eric agree that it is very difficult to capture blue in a tsavorite and that photos are unreliable. Eric went as far as to say that the notion of a blue-green tsavorite is a misconception:

"They can be light, medium or dark tone. Some may more or less be yellow, other purer green but non qualify as blue-green and none never have a total absence of yellow. If you put any tsavorite under a traditional incandescent light bulb, the gem will show some yellow (more or less according to the stone). This being said, some tsavorite appear with a slight blueish undertone. But really keep in mind that tsavorites are green and will always – including those with a blue undertone – display some yellow under certain conditions. After all, green is a mixture of blue and yellow."
Just for fun, I have another tsavorite from Gene. I don't think it's quite right for me, but the more tsavs in this thread the better!

There is no such thing as a blue green tsavorite, but I would say that there is such a thing as a very slightly bluish green tsavorite. Very slightly bluish green is considered a hue by GIA standards. It is denoted by this code, vslbG. Some emeralds are considered a very slightly bluish green. Green is the primary color and the blue there as a slight secondary color. I have never seen a tsavorite that did not color shift, so in my experience, I would agree that tsavorites tend to go less blue and more yellow under certain lighting conditions. You just don't want them to go too yellow and stay more of a pure green.

Here is an example of two very slightly bluish green stones surrounding a more blue green stone. These are tourmalines.

You can see the blue in these tourmalines vs. the yellow in Gene's tsavorite above, which renders it more green, then bluish green. Then you have modifiers to consider which desaturate the stone's hue. If a stone is too dark or too light in tone, this can desaturate it as well, so you have to be very picky and careful when choosing medium darks.

 

[T L]

This tsavorite, although not a medium dark, is showing a very slightly bluish green color. It was also cut by Gene. I have seen tsavorites this color in person, but it is a very rare color. I was at a tsavorite dealer's gem booth about a year ago, and he has a ton of tsavorites. He goes to Africa to buy them. Only one had this color. We were comparing hues, and this was his prize stone.

 

[pregcurious]

Going forward with Bruce sounds like a reasonable plan. Please let us know how it pans out. His pictures of my stone were honest in that they were not doctored and they are _not_ flattering to my stone. It looks better in person. His verbal description was the most accurate.

When I bought my red spinel from Bruce, it was after having looked at many red rubies and getting a feel for "red" and what I liked (I could not find stores in my area with red spinels). Still, I had it appraised by an independent appraiser (Martin Fuller--you can find reviews on him here) and he was a great help because he has seen many red gemstones (rubies, tourmalines, diamonds etc.) to judge what is "red" and identified for me what modifiers mine had using a standard GIA set of stones for defining "red". Like red, bluish green (versus yellowish green) is very desirable in many different types of stones (tourmaline, emerald, etc). In the end, color is king.

 

[pregcurious]

TL, that is a beautiful stone and setting. It is stunning.

LD, you are much more experienced than I, but I share your confusion about medium-dark versus dark. I like both medium and medium-dark in gemstones. I find in red/green/blue colored stones, I prefer medium-dark, and I wonder if that is because rubies/emeralds/sapphires are most prized at medium-dark (from my understanding). For other colors like yellow, orange, and purple, I prefer medium, on the side of what some people call medium plus.

 

[T L]

TL, that is a beautiful stone and setting. It is stunning.

I forgot to mention it belongs to Yingh, and Whiteflash did the setting. It was a Pricescope "Jewel of the Week." I posted another photo of it earlier in this thread. As I stated earlier, Gene cut this stone. It really is a well crafted piece in all aspects, including the actual precision cut gem and the color.