Post-Vacation Depression and a little LIW anxiety

[hisdiamondgirl]

First of all, HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone and congratulations to all the lovely LIWs who got engaged over the holidays!

I have not posted here in a while as 1) I have been on vacation, and 2) I have been trying to stay away to appease some of my LIW angst!

WARNING: This is a bit of a vent!

I got back to work yesterday after almost two weeks off and I am soooo down I can barely get anything done! I guess I got used to the vacation "without a care in the world" life and now it''s back to reality! I guess this is pretty normal for me as I usually feel a bit down after returning from vacation. However, this time, the post-vacation anxiety is mixed with LIW anxiety and it''s made it a little harder for me to stay focused.

For those of you who haven''t read or don''t remember my previous posts, I have been with my boyfriend for about a year and a half and really, I guess I am not really a LIW at all since he does not have the ring, we have not gone ring shopping, he has never actually said straight out that he wants to marry me (although he did say that it is "very likely" that we will get married). The last time I was experiencing some anxiety, I decided, with some advice from Pandora, to wait until the 2 year mark to bring up another serious conversation about the subject (since the last time I did, in November, he told me he wasn''t "there" yet and he thinks we have "more growing to do together"). It is so hard for me since we do talk a lot about the future, etc., and I always end up dropping hints about the subject or bringing it up as a little bit of a joke. The main thing for me is that I don''t want to pressure him as he was previously engaged to a crazy woman who put him (and me) through a lot so I know that he is, and why he is, reluctant to take that next big step, again! I guess I don''t really know what the point of my post is since I do still want to wait until around June to have a serious convo about the subject, but I guess I just needed to let some of what I''ve been feeling out of the bag. We basically live together and have a wonderful relationship, we barely fight, and when we do we can usually talk it out and come to a mutual resolution, and the other night as we were falling asleep, he whispered to me that "we''re perfect together." So why not just propose already or tell me that that is what he wants?!?!??!

AAAhhhhh, men! Why can''t it just be simple?!?!??!

Thanks for reading and sorry for the kinda pointless post!

 

[brooklyngirl]

hisdiamondgirl,

I'm not entirely familiar with your posts, but from what you've said here, it seems like your bf has some issues to work through, and wants to do that before making a formal commitment to you, and I think that's commendable. I've been in the same boat, so I know how rough things are for you right now, but believe me when I tell you that it will be totally different when he is ready, and that he needs to work through his issues before he is.

He already told you that he will most likely marry you after less than a year and a half together, so it's obvious that he's serious about your relationship.

RE practically living together, if you think he's getting too much(i.e. you are acting like his wife, in that you're sharing a home, chores, etc) for someone who is not even engaged, I suggest you stop giving so much. I believe that for the most part people get married out of necessity (i.e. they want to live together, be together, but cannot do that without marriage for whatever reason), so if a guy is happy with the way things are and doesn't want/need more than what he's already getting, why rock the boat? Set your boundaries, and don't do anything that makes you uncomfortable or resentful of you bf in the future.

You've made the decision to wait and see how things go until the summer, and not bring up the subject until then. If you've carefully considered your decision at the time it was made, I'm sure you had good reason to wait. Try to remember what those reasons were in times of doubt. You have plenty of time between now and summer to collect your thoughts and have a candid, productive, non-confrontational discussion with your bf, so use that time wisely.

 

[bee*]

Date: 1/3/2008 4:53:47 PM
Author: brooklyngirl



RE practically living together, if you think he''s getting too much(i.e. you are acting like his wife, in that you''re sharing a home, chores, etc) for someone who is not even engaged, I suggest you stop giving so much. I believe that for the most part people get married out of necessity (i.e. they want to live together, be together, but cannot do that without marriage for whatever reason), so if a guy is happy with the way things are and doesn''t want/need more than what he''s already getting, why rock the boat? Set your boundaries, and don''t do anything that makes you uncomfortable or resentful of you bf in the future.


You''ve made the decision to wait and see how things go until the summer, and not bring up the subject until then. If you''ve carefully considered your decision at the time it was made, I''m sure you had good reason to wait. Try to remember what those reasons were in times of doubt. You have plenty of time between now and summer to collect your thoughts and have a candid, productive, non-confrontational discussion with your bf, so use that time wisely.

I was going to suggest the same things that brooklyngirl did. If you guys are practically living together and doing everything together, what''s his reasons for holding off? I think that sometimes they get used to things and they don''t see a reason to change them. I also agree with collecting your thoughts etc in the next six months before you sit him down and have a chat about the future. Write down the questions that you want to ask him and prepare yourself for the different reactions that he might have and think about how you would feel and what you want.

 

[krispi]

I don''t really have any words of wisdom to add; I just wanted to say that I know exactly how you feel! I''m in a great relationship with my bf, but we really don''t talk about the future in concrete terms or timelines. He''s working on some financial goals right now, and he''s very dedicated to them. He hopes to make significant progress over the next 6 months, so I was thinking that I''d maybe try to talk about things with him after that. I''m really proud of him for working on his goals, but that doesn''t make it any easier to wait. I just realized my big, long term goal of buying my own place, so now I''m ready to move on to planning the next step of my life.

I think the advice so far has been good, so I''ll just have to remind myself to follow it...

 

[HollyS]

I''m just curious about something I see a lot here on LIW. Why is everybody chomping at the bit to get engaged when their relationship hits the 1-2 yr mark? And, perhaps that''s not too soon if you are older and still plan on having children at some point; but what about the younger women? What''s the impetus? Is it because everyone around you is getting married; is it peer pressure; or cultural expectation?

I think anyone in their early 20s can afford to wait; there is a certain amount of adult reality that you need to experience on your own before you get married, and certainly before you have children. I think we have a mind set in our (American) culture that we will miss our Golden Opportunity for The Relationship if we aren''t careful.

I said this before in a prior post . . . anticipation should not equal anxiety. Being excited about the possibility of an impending proposal is not the same as wishing your BF would hurry up and get with your program. If you have a wonderful relationship that seems headed for "happily ever after", stop and enjoy exactly what you have right now. The rest will follow - - if it''s meant to be.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/3/2008 6:44:06 PM
Author: HollyS
I''m just curious about something I see a lot here on LIW. Why is everybody chomping at the bit to get engaged when their relationship hits the 1-2 yr mark? And, perhaps that''s not too soon if you are older and still plan on having children at some point; but what about the younger women? What''s the impetus? Is it because everyone around you is getting married; is it peer pressure; or cultural expectation?

I think anyone in their early 20s can afford to wait; there is a certain amount of adult reality that you need to experience on your own before you get married, and certainly before you have children. I think we have a mind set in our (American) culture that we will miss our Golden Opportunity for The Relationship if we aren''t careful.

I said this before in a prior post . . . anticipation should not equal anxiety. Being excited about the possibility of an impending proposal is not the same as wishing your BF would hurry up and get with your program. If you have a wonderful relationship that seems headed for ''happily ever after'', stop and enjoy exactly what you have right now. The rest will follow - - if it''s meant to be.

Holly, your post kind of made me chuckle. It seems that the LIW forum is causing you some irritation lately (for lack of a better word). I laugh because I had to take a break from it myself a while back for the same reason. Either I couldn''t understand why all the desperation, or the some of the pollyana overabundance of enthusiasm was too much for my cynical ways.

Not sure if answering your question is staying on topic, since the OP did not ask for insight into her own psyche, but asked for insight into why men are lame (the million dollar question.) While I do agree, being a mid thirty something, that you do go through a LOT of changes in your 20''s into your 30''s, I don''t think 20 somethings are alone at "chomping at the bit." We have some current 30 somethings that are dying to get engaged in under a year with their mates, and not many are saying they need to wait. Is it because we have rotting eggs syndrome that we get some kind of free pass?

I know that it is important to know yourself before you come together with someone else...and it''s more important to know that "yourself" will evolve tremendously over your 20''s. But I do believe that there are SOME 20 somethings that are very self aware and will have the wonderful benefit of evolving with a partner in a healthy way together...something that some of us more "mature" (I hate that word, but I''ve been called it a lot lately due to being a 35 yr old preggo woman) don''t get to experience. Instead we have to learn to mesh some serious independence with someone else''s...not always a fun thing.

Some women simply WANT to get married. Badly. At ANY age. I think we are seeing more 20 somethings like this on LIW because the a lot of 30 somethings are already married OR been burned (that learning experience thing...bah!). There is nothing wrong with being eager in wanting to tie the knot when you believe you have found the one you want to be with forever - so I guess it IS possible that it is neither peer pressure nor cultural expectation - although in many cases I suspect it''s a little of both.

I guess that being older, we tend to be a bit more "whoa whoa, slow down!" because we see with our own circle of friends that the odds are not really in your favor if you marry young. I thought my generation was all about "me me me!" but then I see that with each generation the sense of entitlement seems to be getting worse, and I simply do not believe a relationship can work out when you are that self focused...

 

[MissErin]

My advice to you is simple...

Enjoy this time together. It will pass you by otherwise.

About a year ago I was in the same "why won''t he just propose" thought process and it got me NOWHERE. To be honest, it actually started a lot of conflict and kept us from having some really special moments together that we can never get back. I understand you two don''t fight a lot, but trust me, this kind of wanting will eventually get you to a point where there are fights and you will end up feeling guilty.

After my few months of creating heartache about the ring, I decided life is WAY TOO SHORT to worry about it. After that our relationship grew REALLY strong and now he has gotten really serious about the proposal.

It can be REALLY hard to stop the LIW syndroms but as long as you try things will work out just as they need to. The other girls had wonderful advice about playing wifey before you should and I second that. Rememeber to be strong on your own and show him that. That is when you''ll see things change.

By the way - It''s lovely meeting you!! I''m somewhat new and happy to meet another LIW.

 

[smiles]

hisdiamondgirl - i dont post a lot but I have been following your story and i remember when you decided to wait until 2 years to speak to your bf about the future again. I definietly believe it will be a challenge but I think if you can do it it will make your relationship stronger. You will have proven to yourself that you are happy in your relationship and its not just about getting a ring and all that jazz that you can respect his desire for time while staying true to yourself and your personal goals! whenever i want to talk to my bf about the future but know its a bad time i like to come on here and live viacriously through others! it helps until you log off! and i also hope that you''ll have some encouraging news when you do go to talk to him

I dont want to hijack the post but in response to holly i think there are 2 things to consider: 1- i think at major times in a relationship like an anniversary people take stock of relationships and the good the bad and the ugly. most ppl are inrelationships because they are looking for long term committment so it is natural to begin to think about the future when you begin hitting relationship milestones. ppl think about at what point the relationship is heading where they want it to go and so on....2- i can offer some perspective from the young side. I am young and been with my bf for 4 years. b/c we are young we never discussed the future in concrete terms until about 6 months ago. for me i feel like he is the one for me and for more reasons than just i love him but to the outside world i am just a girlfriend. we can have all the plans in the world but taking that step and making that committment to stick it out with each other i think is somethiing a lot of girls in this forum are looking for... just the promise that we''re gonna stick it out and make it work no matter what - and while u can have that withou an engagement it has been discussed here before the difference in perceptopns of girlfriends and fiancees.

sorry this was so long....

 

[FrekeChild]

Wow, HDG, I feel you. We have a couple of similarities in that we''re approaching two years as well in April/May, and we really never fight. I know it''s hard to be patient, but I think it''s good that you still plan on waiting to have your talk.

My only insecurity is stemming from the fact that he was in a previous long term relationship that was almost 3 years, and he broke up with her because he finally realized that he just wasn''t happy. While I try to forget the past (and I know he forgets it ASAP) part of that still haunts me in the most annoying way. What is truly awful is is that I know he''s happy!

With the "perfect" comment, I really think that you don''t have anything to worry about. However as pretty much everyone says, 2 years is the honeymoon period and it''s really after that, that our true selves come out.

The differences are that we''ve gone ring shopping, we live together and that I know we want to marry each other. Frankly, after as much as we''ve talked about everything, my having any doubts is quite silly.


Not to thread hijack but....

As for Holly, I''m 25, and "chomping at the bit" around year 2 as you so eloquently put it. Frankly, I know we''ve going to be together. I know we''re going to get married. I also know we''re not going to have kids. Not to mention that my father is a divorce attorney-so I know plenty about what happens when someone isn''t ready to get married and finds out after the fact. None of my friends or his friends are getting married. So there isn''t any real rush to get married. At all. No biological, psychological, mental, financial or any other reason to rush into anything. We CAN afford to wait.

We probably would, except for one thing that is very very important to me: for my mom to be present at our wedding. And she''s living from series of tests to series of tests for years because she''s got cancer that just keeps coming back. She will be on chemotherapy for the rest of her life-however long that will be. You''re probably going to say that I need more adult reality, and I''m going to have to disagree here, I''ve been through a lot more than most girls at my age, and have always been told that I was mature for my age-even at age eight. I know that we''ll get married eventually-probably in two-three years if all goes well with my mom, but if I get any kind of bad news on that front, then you can bet your @$$ I will be heading to the courthouse with my mom, dad and BF, and I will come out a Mrs. He knows this, and he agrees-because he''s already lost his own mom.

So perhaps I don''t fit in with this gross generalization that you''ve made about all of the LIW, maybe I have the anticipation instead of the anxiety, but the thing is--I can relate.

I''ll applaud you on being nicer this post, and while I appreciate that you have all this wisdom and knowledge, I would personally really appreciate if you''d stop making all of these generalizations, because you really don''t know all of a person''s situation except your own.

 

[sweetjettagirl04]

HDG, I can relate to what you're saying, and I think you've been given some very good advice so far. My FF is a bit of a slow starter - he used to talk about marriage all the time, and it got to the point where it was a joke for me. I decided to step back and push aside that conversation if he started it, because I felt the same way - If he was talking about it so much, why not do it? We've been together for about 6 years, and now it's actually coming. I'm glad we did wait to do anything about it, though, because it gave me a better perspective of what our lives will be together, and a deeper love and appreciation for the man I'm marrying. Having that talk with him will set your mind at ease, and if you wait to do it, you'll be more composed as far as what you want to say to him. From experience, it worked well for me, although I was scared that everything might change.

As far as other posters asking why 20-somethings are chomping at the bit to be married - if you're in love with someone, and you have no doubts that you truly want to be with this person for the rest of your life, why wait? If you've committed to that person, and received the same commitment in return, it's only natural to want to marry this person and start your life with them. It's not to keep up with everyone else, or because that's what's expected. I may be younger compared to some (mid-twenties), but I know I've had enough time with my BF and enough life experience to know what I want, and anyone else who is anticipating a proposal has likely gone through enough to be sure what they want.

I certainly agree with TGal that you do need to know yourself before committing to another person, because just wanting to get married for the sake of it is dumb. I have been lucky enough to evolve on my own, knowing who I am and what I want, and the relationship I hold now is stronger because he's been by my side when I've figured some of this out. I respect everyone else's opinions on this matter - but it's not our job to tell someone that they should or should not be getting married or want to get married simply because of their age, or how long they should be together before deciding to take that step. If hisdiamondgirl and her BF are ready to go to that level after being together for 2 years, so be it. My parents knew each other for a year, dated for 7 months, and then got married, and they've been together for 30 years.

hisdiamondgirl, I wish you the best. It sounds like you've got a solid reason for wanting this, and you're being considerate of your BF because of the nasty experience he had with his ex. The simple answer is that no man is going to make this simple.

 

[HollyS]

FrekeChild, I was speaking in a very generalized way, and I realize there will always be some young women who are ready to make a life long commitment. And, you have some very real personal issues that would hurry you into a marriage that your mom can be present for. I''m just addressing a common theme on LIW . . . or maybe I am just more inclined to read the threads that have titles like "Boo-hoo, I''m not engaged!" (I did make that up, but you get my point.)

I thought, once upon a time, that I could offer a little perspective on the waiting game, and give some tough love where needed to some of these posters. After my recent *hoisting on my own petard* on another thread, I know that most people don''t want to hear what they don''t want to hear, and others will come to their defense with a vengance. So I thought I would ask the universal question, to no one in particular, and to everyone in general . . . why the rush, what''s the hurry, where''s the fire? Because I think, really, from what I''ve read, quite a few women may be throwing monkey wrenches into an otherwise perfectly good relationship by focusing on "why hasn''t he proposed yet?".

And, when I ask these questions, I''m truly interested in the response; I''m not looking to insult anyone or hurt their feelings. Think of it as the quintessential Dr. Phil question, "How''s that working for you?" He always asks that when he wants to point out that perhaps there may be a better way to reach a goal.

Or maybe I just need someone to mother, since I didn''t have my own kids!

 

[sweetjettagirl04]

Date: 1/4/2008 10:02:12 AM
Author: HollyS
FrekeChild, I was speaking in a very generalized way, and I realize there will always be some young women who are ready to make a life long commitment. And, you have some very real personal issues that would hurry you into a marriage that your mom can be present for. I''m just addressing a common theme on LIW . . . or maybe I am just more inclined to read the threads that have titles like ''Boo-hoo, I''m not engaged!'' (I did make that up, but you get my point.)

I thought, once upon a time, that I could offer a little perspective on the waiting game, and give some tough love where needed to some of these posters. After my recent *hoisting on my own petard* on another thread, I know that most people don''t want to hear what they don''t want to hear, and others will come to their defense with a vengance. So I thought I would ask the universal question, to no one in particular, and to everyone in general . . . why the rush, what''s the hurry, where''s the fire? Because I think, really, from what I''ve read, quite a few women may be throwing monkey wrenches into an otherwise perfectly good relationship by focusing on ''why hasn''t he proposed yet?''.

And, when I ask these questions, I''m truly interested in the response; I''m not looking to insult anyone or hurt their feelings. Think of it as the quintessential Dr. Phil question, ''How''s that working for you?'' He always asks that when he wants to point out that perhaps there may be a better way to reach a goal.

Or maybe I just need someone to mother, since I didn''t have my own kids!

Holly, I don''t disagree with what you''re saying, because there will always be that one person all of us knows (in real life) who is asking what the rush is to get married. Some people are more inclined than others to marry sooner rather than later, because their response to "what''s the rush?" is "why wait?". It''s human nature to be defensive of your relationship, especially if someone else brings it in to question. And, those people who are defensive of another person are likely to relate in some way, and it can hit a sore spot if there''s some sort of "attack" and feel inclined to say something about it.

The boo-hoo, i''m not engaged yet thread is common here, because it''s a place where all LIWs have something in common - waiting for it, and you know that the others will support you when you feel like you''re going to explode. It''s easier to vent about it to others in the same situation rather than close friends who are engaged or married, because, from my experience, they can''t relate and you end up feeling like you''re silly for feeling the way you do. Sure, it might be annoying to someone who has already been married, or hasn''t been in the same situation- but to us LIW''s - it''s a big thing to feel so frustrated - and there is amazing support here. More times than not, when one of these posts comes along, it''s written out of pure frustration, and going back many posters will admit to that. That doesn''t mean that in their day to day lives it''s the only thing they think about and worry about - but this is the place to come in order to let that go.

 

[LuvPugs]

I couldn''t have said it better! My situation was exactly the same as Erin''s. About a year ago, I was a little frustrated and wondering why he was taking so long. Basically, what I learned from that is don''t let the LIW anxiety keep you from missing out on some really great moments in your relationship. Erin is right. Keeping these feelings in can lead to anger and resentment.

I would consider moving up that talk. You need to know what his timeline is and then decide if that is okay with you. If it is, great! If it''s not, then you have to decide what is right for you.

I have found that some men are just not ready as soon as we are! Some are, some aren''t. Sometimes they don''t share their feelings because they don''t want to hurt someone else''s feelings (that is from personal experience). What it comes down to (and what I wish I would have known back then) is you have to communicate your feelings to your partner. They don''t get the hints we drop and often times don''t understand what we are feeling.

Best of luck sweetie!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/4/2008 10:02:12 AM
Author: HollyS
FrekeChild, I was speaking in a very generalized way, and I realize there will always be some young women who are ready to make a life long commitment. And, you have some very real personal issues that would hurry you into a marriage that your mom can be present for. I''m just addressing a common theme on LIW . . . or maybe I am just more inclined to read the threads that have titles like ''Boo-hoo, I''m not engaged!'' (I did make that up, but you get my point.)

I thought, once upon a time, that I could offer a little perspective on the waiting game, and give some tough love where needed to some of these posters. After my recent *hoisting on my own petard* on another thread, I know that most people don''t want to hear what they don''t want to hear, and others will come to their defense with a vengance. So I thought I would ask the universal question, to no one in particular, and to everyone in general . . . why the rush, what''s the hurry, where''s the fire? Because I think, really, from what I''ve read, quite a few women may be throwing monkey wrenches into an otherwise perfectly good relationship by focusing on ''why hasn''t he proposed yet?''.

And, when I ask these questions, I''m truly interested in the response; I''m not looking to insult anyone or hurt their feelings. Think of it as the quintessential Dr. Phil question, ''How''s that working for you?'' He always asks that when he wants to point out that perhaps there may be a better way to reach a goal.

Or maybe I just need someone to mother, since I didn''t have my own kids!

Holly, I was actually going to ask the same question some time back after reading thread after thread on "why isn''t he asking?" But then I thought about it and realized, at least for me, the reason for the question was an underlying attitude of "why are you being so stupid?" I felt like I couldn''t phrase the question without that air of superiority and decided not to ask it. Maybe that''s what others are seeing in your question?

Yes, I think that some people don''t want to hear what they don''t want to hear. I''ve also found that there are some other stern posters on here who are a bit better received because they don''t go into defensive mode themselves and are able to deliver their advice with a good dose of humor - or at least with a bit more "seeming" concern instead of a tone of chastisement.

People, especially younger people, are more prone to take advice from people they perceive as wise, and not those who they perceive as giving advice because they are "older than you." I hope you don''t take this the wrong way...I''m only saying it because I really do understand where you are sitting at the moment and the perplexing (for lack of a better word) nature of some LIW posts.

 

[hisdiamondgirl]

Wow ladies, thanks for all the wonderful responses! This post is going to be a bit long as I want to respond to a number of things brought up in everyone''s responses.

brooklyngirl -- My BF does still have some issues to work through, and they have come up periodically throughout our relationship. I think that one of the reasons why our relationship is so strong is that we have been able to TALK about those issues when they have come up and I have through my words, but mostly my actions, shown him that I am not the controlling, jealous, insecure, maniacally paranoid person that his ex was. I think that because of this, he now seems to feel safe about being himself with me, whereas when we first got back together (we were together for a year and a half, separated for two, and then got back together), he would do things a certain way because of his assumptions about what my reactions would be if he were true to himself by doing them differently. I don''t know if this makes any sense to anyone without getting into details but my point is that we have been working through the "baggage" issues and I think that we have both come a long way in understanding and respecting each other''s feelings.

Now to the "practically living together" bit -- I do think that I have given and am giving too much and that by my own actions, I may very well be delaying any proposal. It just feels so right to have him there (he''s been staying at my place basically since May) and I don''t know how to pull back and change things now that they have gone so far, short of kicking him out of my house and saying "That was the preview, if you want the real deal, sign here!"

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

bee* -- btw, love your doggie!!! I really think that he is used to us acting like a married couple anyway so you''re right, he may be thinking "why buy the cow" (Can''t believe I just called myself a cow! lol). What to do?!?!?!? I really love spending all this time with him, but I may have to sacrifice some of that for the greater good! As for the chat, I will definitely take your advice and write down some questions so that I am thoroughly prepared for any possible scenario!

krispi -- Congrats on buying your own home. I am just now starting the process of looking into places to buy! It is great that your BF is financially responsible and working on his financial goals before making any grand commitment to you, sounds like he''s trying to get his "ducks in a row"! My BF has also been focusing on making a lot of money lately, so who knows, maybe he''s saving for something sparkly!

HollyS -- I don''t know the general answer to your questions but I can answer them from my personal experience and point of view. I am in my late twenties, and for me, it is neither peer pressure nor cultural expectation that has me "chomping at the bit to get engaged." Beyond just loving my BF, I KNOW that he is the man that I want to make a commitment to for the rest of my life. I knew this shortly after we broke up after being together for a year and a half. I knew immediately that we had made a huge mistake but I had to let it go since we had already made the decision to do so. I figured that if it were meant to be, he would somehow come back to me. In our two years of separation, he got back with an ex and got engaged. As you can imagine, I was devastated but I got over it and resigned myself to the fact that I had been wrong and that it just wasn''t meant. When he did come back after he broke off the engagement, I knew this was IT! I have always considered myself to be a mature person, and I am of course still learning new things about life everyday. My BF is always there to help me get through the times that are most difficult to swallow, and I know that with his help and support, and him with mine, we can continue to grow together. I have been single many times before, and that is fine too, but knowing that he is there for me at the end of the day just makes life so much better!

Also, I can''t say how I would feel if I knew he had the ring, or was ring shopping, or had asked my parents for their blessing, etc., but I think that it would be a much different feeling, one of giddy anticipation, as opposed to the slight anxiety I sometimes feel. I think that this anxiety stems from the fact that, as TGal said in another post somewhere, "I am a secure person with insecurities" and sometimes I do get slightly scared that he might not want to make the same commitment to me! Is all...

WOW I told you guys this post was going to be long. I do have a little more to say!

TGal -- I was so happy to see that you had posted in my thread.

I respect your opinions very much and most of the time, end up thinking to myself, "Yup what TGal said!!" To everything you said: YUP!

MissErin --

Nice to meet you too!!! You are wonderful and thanks for your wonderful advice. I am trying not to let this wonderful time in my life with this wonderful man be consumed with thoughts of "what if" and "why won''t he"! It''s just that, as you already know, sometimes it is SOOOO hard! But you''re right, these are precious moments and I will try to cherish them and continue to make wonderful memories!

smiles -- It is very important to me for my BF to do things on his own time, when he is ready, and to not make him feel like he is being pressured into making such an important decision! So, I guess I will just continue to come here, and like you said, live vicariously through all the wonderful proposal stories posted!!!!

FrekeChild -- Congrats on having gone ring shopping! YAY!

... and about the "silly doubts" I honestly think we all have then no matter what the circumstances, and the important thing is to not let them consume us!! (haha, I should follow my own advice!)

Anybody still reading? I''m almost done and then I have to get back to work!! heheh

sweetjettagirl04 -- thanks for your encouraging words. It is sooo good to know that I am not the only person going through this and experiencing these feelings. That is why this forum is so great!

Again, thanks ladies!

 

[hisdiamondgirl]

So....while I was writing that long post above ^ two new posts I need to respond to!

LuvPugs -- Thanks for responding. I don''t know if I want to move up the talk. We talked about it in November and his response was that although it was "very likely" that we would get married, he wasn''t "there" yet. I don''t think that much could have changed in those two months. Also, although some anxiety gets in the way once in a while, I really don''t want to pressure him by bringing it up on a regular basis (although I do joke around about going to Vegas and eloping heheh), and would rather give him some time to see if he "gets" there on his own! Know what I mean? We''ll see, if I see that the uncertainty is becoming too much for me to handle I will definitely consider moving the talk up!

TGal and HollyS -- I do want to hear what I don''t want to hear...so please dish it out!

Thanks!

 

[MissErin]

HisDiamondGirl - I just want to commend you on the way you have taken every bit of advice into consideration. You really gained a lot of respect in my book for seeing all the positive feedback for what it is worth. Sometimes there are answers we would rather not hear and aviod - yet you knew that all advice can be helpful and apply. I am just VERY impressed by you.

I am also impressed by the fact that you took time to write EVERYONE back individually!! That was A LOT of typing and required a lot of thought. Again I am impressed.

I am very glad to know you and to be among you in the LIW threads!!

 

[HollyS]

Date: 1/4/2008 12:45:41 PM
Author: hisdiamondgirl
So....while I was writing that long post above ^ two new posts I need to respond to!

LuvPugs -- Thanks for responding. I don''t know if I want to move up the talk. We talked about it in November and his response was that although it was ''very likely'' that we would get married, he wasn''t ''there'' yet. I don''t think that much could have changed in those two months. Also, although some anxiety gets in the way once in a while, I really don''t want to pressure him by bringing it up on a regular basis (although I do joke around about going to Vegas and eloping heheh), and would rather give him some time to see if he ''gets'' there on his own! Know what I mean? We''ll see, if I see that the uncertainty is becoming too much for me to handle I will definitely consider moving the talk up!

TGal and HollyS -- I do want to hear what I don''t want to hear...so please dish it out!

Thanks!

Are you sure about that? ''Cause I saw some red flags in what you just said to me in the post above, but I don''t want to point those out unless you really wanted someone else''s perspective. I''ve learned my lesson about giving unwanted advice.

If you choose not to ask me, I''ll just say this . . . relax, take it one day at a time, if you are meant to be together it will happen. I will say that he''s probably a little gun-shy from his previous engagement and wants to take his time and get it right, with the right person (you). He obviously loves you since guys hate drama as much as they hate change, and your guy did a complete 180 to come back to you. In a guy''s world, that was major.

 

[Haven]

HDG--I can sympathize with the fact that you feel ready for something and you''re disappointed that your BF is not yet ready. However, as someone who was in a similar place not too long ago, I want to caution you against cutting off your own nose to spite your face. What I mean is if your BF is not ready for marriage, no amount of talking about it, or worse, joking about it, is going to help.

You cannot talk your BF into wanting to get married, and in fact, bringing things up that he isn''t ready to face yet is probably only going to talk him OUT of wanting to get married. Of course, every guy is different, but I''ve seen it happen before and I would never want that to happen to you. Does that mean you can''t bring marriage up? Of course not, but just be sure to do so in an adult, conversational manner rather than in a nagging or confrontational manner. I think a poster on PS said something about making sure that you remind him every day (by your actions) of why he should want to marry you, as the last thing you want to do is remind him of why he shouldn''t want to marry you (by nagging or harping on something he isn''t ready to discuss yet.)

In fact, if you have some time look up KimberlyH''s advice to LIWs--she always has great, sound advice. I wish I could compile it for you!

I''m not assuming that you approach the discussions like this, but just giving a friendly reminder from a very recent LIW who *may* have been a bit of a nag during her stay as a LIW, and whose FI *may* have told her that she was being quite annoying.

As for the question about men and why it just can''t be simple--I have no idea! The one thing I DO think I''ve learned is that the real reason men and women have problems such as this is that men really ARE simple--they don''t spend hours pondering their future or dreaming about being married. With my man, at least, what you see is what you get. There''s no hidden agenda behind his smile, he isn''t "thinking about" anything deep when he''s sitting silently, he''s just sitting, silently! My FI once told me "Honey, I''m just a simple guy! I''m not thinking about anything. I love you. I''m with you. Why all the dramatics?"

Holly--I''m going to try to answser your question, but after I wrote it out I see it''s really only MY idea of what the deal is. Anyway, I honestly think that the Engagement Rush (as my FI calls it) is the result of persuasive marketing (diamond commercials, the wedding industry) and a general cultural ideal that marriage is full of flowers and walks in the park and peonies and pretty diamonds. I also think there is some self-induced pressure when many of your friends are getting married. I remember feeling compelled to evaluate my own relationship when friends of mine started getting engaged after only one or two years and my then-BF and I had been together longer. Of course this was silly, and we''re all different, but there it was--the nasty comparison bug.

My FI and I also faced some family pressure because he''s 37 and I''m 27, so everyone around us believed that we SHOULD be married, as we were "old enough" and we both have stable jobs, we''re homeowners, etc.

I got the engagement bug at the 2.5 year mark (I was 26), and I honestly felt like some irrational creature took over my body, luckily my FI and I had already established open communication and all it took was one good conversation (and a big fat post on the LIW board) to calm my nerves.

I agree that there''s this cultural fear of missing the golden opportunity for The relationship, as well as the idea that anyone in their early 20s can afford to wait. I''m still young (in my own mind, at the very least!) and at 27 I finally feel like I''m absolutely ready to move along. And you know what? It took my FI 37 years to be ready for marriage, so I suppose everyone is different.

Also, I hope that a previous post does not stigmatize Holly from here on out. I saw nothing contentious about her post in this thread, she asked some relevant questions and offerend good advice, yet some people were quick to respond defensively.

I DO think TGal offered some great insight about why people respond a certain way to certain stern posters. Spot on, as always, TGal!

 

[hisdiamondgirl]

HollyS -- I really would like to hear your perspective on the situation! I came here to get everyone''s opinions and advice, as they are just that, other''s opinions and advice, and I can choose to credit them and follow any advice given, or decide that maybe, based on the limited information in my post, the person may have gotten the wrong impression of me and my relationship. After all, there is only so much about something as complex as a relationship that can be described on an Internet forum. It can also help me to see things that I probably already know are there, but have chosen to ignore for one reason or another! Anyway, long story short, I want to hear it! Thanks!

Haven -- Thanks for your post! Not wanting to come across as a nag is one of the reasons why I have decided to put off the conversation until June. We spoke about it and he said he wasn''t "there" and I left it at that. Even though I personally would like to have this conversation again right now, why disappoint myself since I doubt anything has changed on that front. I rather much give him more time and just try to enjoy the relationship as it now stands (which is pretty darn good if I may say so myself!

Hey, he may even surprise me between now and then, who knows!?!?! Now wouldn''t that be nice!

There''s no hidden agenda behind his smile, he isn''t "thinking about" anything deep when he''s sitting silently, he''s just sitting, silently! My FI once told me "Honey, I''m just a simple guy! I''m not thinking about anything. I love you. I''m with you. Why all the dramatics?"

lol...this is sooooo a conversation we have had before!!!

 

[HollyS]

Date: 1/4/2008 3:25:55 PM
Author: hisdiamondgirl
HollyS -- I really would like to hear your perspective on the situation! I came here to get everyone''s opinions and advice, as they are just that, other''s opinions and advice, and I can choose to credit them and follow any advice given, or decide that maybe, based on the limited information in my post, the person may have gotten the wrong impression of me and my relationship. After all, there is only so much about something as complex as a relationship that can be described on an Internet forum. It can also help me to see things that I probably already know are there, but have chosen to ignore for one reason or another! Anyway, long story short, I want to hear it! Thanks!

Haven -- Thanks for your post! Not wanting to come across as a nag is one of the reasons why I have decided to put off the conversation until June. We spoke about it and he said he wasn''t ''there'' and I left it at that. Even though I personally would like to have this conversation again right now, why disappoint myself since I doubt anything has changed on that front. I rather much give him more time and just try to enjoy the relationship as it now stands (which is pretty darn good if I may say so myself!

Hey, he may even surprise me between now and then, who knows!?!?! Now wouldn''t that be nice!

There''s no hidden agenda behind his smile, he isn''t ''thinking about'' anything deep when he''s sitting silently, he''s just sitting, silently! My FI once told me ''Honey, I''m just a simple guy! I''m not thinking about anything. I love you. I''m with you. Why all the dramatics?''

lol...this is sooooo a conversation we have had before!!!

Okay, you did ask me. . .

I would be concerned that: he left at the yr and a half mark, went back to an ex and got engaged (and I may be reading too much between the lines here, but it sounds as though he felt pressured by her to get engaged after he went back to her), and he broke the engagement, and came back to you. The question I would ask myself is "Does he leave when it gets too serious for him? And did he come back to me because he knew I would take him back and therefore I made it easy for him to return? And he left me to go back to an ex; then he left his ex to come back to me - another ex; hmmmmnnnn..... And, will he leave me, again, like he left her, if he feels pressured to get engaged?"

I would be concerned that: in your words, (and the capitals are yours, too) "he DID NOT say ''I want to marry you''". or "He never actually said he wants to marry me."

In November he said he wasn''t *there* yet, and he didn''t think you were *there* yet. I would be concerned that: he''s trying to convince you by subtle coersion that you don''t really feel the way you do; if he can put doubt in your mind, it buys time for him to be *as is*. He actually gave you a glimpse of his mindset when he said "We''re perfect together." (Read between his lines -- he means *as is*.) He doesn''t feel he needs to be engaged or married. At least not now.

 

[bee*]

Date: 1/4/2008 12:24:35 PM
Author: hisdiamondgirl



Now to the ''practically living together'' bit -- I do think that I have given and am giving too much and that by my own actions, I may very well be delaying any proposal. It just feels so right to have him there (he''s been staying at my place basically since May) and I don''t know how to pull back and change things now that they have gone so far, short of kicking him out of my house and saying ''That was the preview, if you want the real deal, sign here!''

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!


bee* -- btw, love your doggie!!! I really think that he is used to us acting like a married couple anyway so you''re right, he may be thinking ''why buy the cow'' (Can''t believe I just called myself a cow! lol). What to do?!?!?!? I really love spending all this time with him, but I may have to sacrifice some of that for the greater good! As for the chat, I will definitely take your advice and write down some questions so that I am thoroughly prepared for any possible scenario!

hehe yep my doggie is a cutie!

As for not knowing what to do about the practically living together thing, maybe even try and go see your friends or things like that more, just so he knows that you''re not there waiting for him at every moment. I think that he does have it easy by having you there all the time. Some of the things that Holly has said might make me worry a tiny bit too. I agree with Haven though in that if he''s not ready, there is nothing that you can say or do that will make him do it. D felt the same at the beginning of 06 and I''d say for some of last year too but once he had it in his head that he wanted to do it, there was no stopping him. I guess what you need to figure out yourself in the time before you have your chat, is whether you are happy to stay with him indefinitely until he is ready, or if marriage is something that you definitely want and are not prepared to wait around while he decides.

Holly-I think that your question is quite a valid one as sometimes I think to myself too about people getting engaged so early in a relationship (I was with D for over 8 years before we got engaged). I guess it''s all about different peoples wishes. For me and D, what was much more important to us in our early twenties was getting our education, traveling, starting our careers, more travel and probably more travel again

. We were going out with each other the whole time as we started dating at 17/18 but if you had said to either of us about getting engaged in our early twenties, we would have laughed at you. For us, seeing the world and getting ourselves stable in our individual careers while still being together was what we needed, but what we did isn''t for everyone.

 

[hisdiamondgirl]

Thanks for your honest response, HollyS! It is really appreciated! Although I didn''t want to get into too many details, a little clarification is required here!

I would be concerned that: he left at the yr and a half mark, went back to an ex and got engaged (and I may be reading too much between the lines here, but it sounds as though he felt pressured by her to get engaged after he went back to her), and he broke the engagement, and came back to you. The question I would ask myself is ''Does he leave when it gets too serious for him? And did he come back to me because he knew I would take him back and therefore I made it easy for him to return? And he left me to go back to an ex; then he left his ex to come back to me - another ex; hmmmmnnnn..... And, will he leave me, again, like he left her, if he feels pressured to get engaged?''

I am quite positive that he did not leave his ex because things had gotten too serious for him. The ex literally went CRAZY , accusing him of continuing his relationship with me behind her back (while we were not even speaking to each other at the time), harassed me on my cellular phone at all times of the day and night, threatened both of us, police had to be involved, she was arrested, even harassed my mom by leaving messages on her answering machine, etc, etc... I think those things explain why that engagement didn''t quite end the way engagements usually do. On your second point about the fact that I may have made it "easy" for him to return to me, again the facts will contradict that: we did not get back together until a year after he broke up with the ex, although he did try pretty hard to woo me back for a long time before I actually gave in!

So that''s clarification on those points.

On the other points you make:

I would be concerned that: in your words, (and the capitals are yours, too) ''he DID NOT say ''I want to marry you''''. or ''He never actually said he wants to marry me.'' Exactly my concern, although the fact that he said that it is "very likely" that we will get married appeased me a little, I still need to hear that he WANTS to marry me and for us to be together for the rest of our lives! But for the reasons I already explained, I will give him more time and see where we take it from there.

In November he said he wasn''t *there* yet, and he didn''t think you were *there* yet. I would be concerned that: he''s trying to convince you by subtle coersion that you don''t really feel the way you do; if he can put doubt in your mind, it buys time for him to be *as is*. Maybe he was buying some time (and if he was, the time has a big SOLD FOR ROCKBOTTOM PRICE sign on it!!

, but maybe his experiences have truly led him to believe that a ready woman is a nagging woman!

He actually gave you a glimpse of his mindset when he said ''We''re perfect together.'' (Read between his lines -- he means *as is*.) Thanks, I see your point, but I''m taking this one at face value, and will continue to think "awwww what a sweet comment!"

He doesn''t feel he needs to be engaged or married. At least not now. With this, I completely agree! Why would he feel the need to be engaged or married if I welcomed him into my house, and we basically already do EVERYTHING as a married couple would. How do I fix this now?!?!?!??!?!?!?!

 

[HollyS]

How do you fix this now?? That''s a very good question that only you can find the answer to. Having never *lived with* prior to marriage, I don''t have any advice to give on that aspect of your relationship and how it will affect the ''natural progression'' of your lives together.

The fact that you wonder "how do I fix this" means you know you''ve made him too comfortable with the *right now*. He''s very happy with the *right now* while you''re not at all satisfied; you want more. Only you know for sure, or will know eventually, whether this is a temporary impasse or a much larger problem.

I hope it works out for the best.

 

[surfgirl]

How do I fix this now?!?!?!??!?!?!?!

The thing is, YOU cant "fix" this. From what I read in your posts, and if you're being honest with yourself, the only "fix" is for him to propose or tell you that he wants to marry you at some point, yes? If so, there isn't a lot you can do to make him want to marry you. I know that's not what you want to hear but that's the reality. What you can do, is make sure that you are looking out for YOU and what is in your best interest. That can mean anything from taking a break from the relationship to let him decide what he really wants (and perhaps what you really want), to stopping playing house, to simply toning down the time you spend together and taking up some new hobbies, interests, etc. to help you decide just how long you are willing to wait. From what you've said here, your BF isn't ready for marriage or engagement and it doesn't seem like you are a LIW if that is the case. Perhaps your hanging out here is a way to pretend that you're almost at a proposal? I'm not trying to be mean but it's important to look at what is being said by your BF and I'm not hearing "Yes! I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you!" What I hear is, "uh, yeah, maybe there's a possibility we'll be married one day...but not right now..." You need to accept whatever stage you're really at in this relationship and then decide how to move from there. That said, it's not as easy at it seems and I totally understand that. Have you considered counseling, either individually or as a couple, or both?

Related to this whole subject, SJG said upthread:

"The boo-hoo, i'm not engaged yet thread is common here, because it's a place where all LIWs have something in common - waiting for it, and you know that the others will support you when you feel like you're going to explode."

The problem with the above, is that so many of the girls who post threads like that aren't really even on the verge of a proposal, they just "want" a proposal (I'm speaking in general, not of a specific post). Wanting a proposal does not a LIW make. If you've had serious talks about marriage and/or your guy has the ring or is in the process of getting the ring, then to me, that's a LIW. But just because you want to get married to the guy you're dating, doesn't mean he wants to get married and therefore, you're not a LIW are you? That's where all the sugary "Oh I know a proposal is just on the horizon for you, hugs!" sort of post that are prevalent on those types of threads seem to be doing a dis service to the OP. I think that's what holly and TG might be seeing too but I'm not sure. I see so many threads where if one looks objectively at an OP's thread, their own words usually are quite telling and the only one who seems to be thinking they're a LIW is the OP, and often, I'm guessing that their BF would probably be really surprised to read what they're saying on a "I'm almost engaged" forum. That's my opinion only, of course, but I dont think I'm the only one who gets that impression many times.

 

[HollyS]

Surfgirl, you aren''t the only one who gets that impression.

I was nearly tarred and feathered on another post for my efforts at persuading someone to step back and really look at her situation. At the end of the day, my thought was "Where the heck is Deco when you need her?!"

Where the heck is Deco??????

 

[surfgirl]

Date: 1/4/2008 7:16:47 PM
Author: HollyS
Surfgirl, you aren't the only one who gets that impression.


I was nearly tarred and feathered on another post for my efforts at persuading someone to step back and really look at her situation. At the end of the day, my thought was 'Where the heck is Deco when you need her?!'


Where the heck is Deco??????

She's having a smoke out behind the barn with Creepy Santa!

Actually, the whole enabling thing saddens me (and perhaps that's why I'm not afraid to say what I think is going on) because over the last year we've seen several PS women go through really devastating situations...Some have been outright breakups, while others have been sad realizations that they're probably married to the wrong guy (as in, the guy doesn't really want to be married, either at all, or to them). And in all those cases (I'm not naming names)the majority of posters said that the OP had mentioned warning flags many times while they were LIWs..And I just wonder if people had been more straight with the tough love on those people (maybe they were, I'm not sure), perhaps they might have stepped back enough to get the perspective they needed to see that maybe that relationship wasn't "the one"...I dont know, hard to second guess, or easy to be a Monday morning QB, but either way, nobody benefits from smoke being blown up their dress when they're obviously struggling with something that might be clearer to others outside their life...

 

[TravelingGal]

Holly, seriously, are you done with feeling sorry for yourself?

You weren''t tarred and feathered for asking people to take a step back. Tons of folks do that around here. Mara, Deco, Surfgirl, Alj, to name a few. You were tarred and feathered because the tone of your post was borderline condescending to some. (And you''re not the only one...all the gals I''ve named above, as well as myself, have gotten the cry of "hey, you''re being mean" before, so you''re in good company.)

Deco is rarely tarred and feathered these days (although she has had her share) because as I implied earlier, she tends to do it with a sense of humor, and always is willing to step back and say, OK, maybe I''m being too harsh, sorry. And to take stock of why some posters "get away" with being more stern...they have been here a long time, therefore lurkers and posters alike know a bit about their history. It''s all about that "I''ll take her advice because I think she''s smart" vs "I''m older than you and know better" thing that I said before.

I''m not sure Deco would have "been there" when you needed her because while she is a straight shooter to the point of hitting bullseye nearly every time, she is capable of discerning between a vent post and a post where the OP has some serious issues above and beyond having serious LIW fever. Personally, I would respond very differently (or most likely not respond at all as I am not the consoling type) to a post saying "AAARGH, I am so frustrated...I know I am being stupid, but I just need to vent that he is not asking me as soon as I would like" vs "I am SO PISSED OFF! He didn''t ask me in 2007, so I took off my Manolo''s and threw it at him, and the heel gouged his eyes out...and he had the nerve to be mad at ME. FRREEAK!!!"

Not saying that you can''t discern, btw, but the LIW board is almost practically for venting...which is a LOT safer(in most cases) than chuckin'' a fruity in front of your man!

 

[surfgirl]

In the interest of not getting into another thread that needs an intervention, may I ask what "chuck''in a fruity" means? Because I''m thinking all kinds of things, some really not good...!

 

[TravelingGal]

LOL, surfgirl, that''s probably a wise decision on your part. I, myself, am not so wise. Just old. Hehehe.

Chuckin'' a fruity...I''m not sure it''s an australian term, or just something that TGuy uses. But it means throwing a tanty (tantrum). He says first there are signs of chuckin'' a wobbly, and then it can go to full blown fruity. Either way, when he says it, it always makes me laugh. He says this around the many kids we see in our group of friends, and of course his own niece and nephew.