Post-Vacation Depression and a little LIW anxiety

[hearts-arrows_girl]

Surfgirl, I have to say, I always love reading your posts. You have an "It is what it is" way of speaking! For those of us reading posts, it is refreshing and for the OP it may be unsettling, but the OP should absolutely mix your posts in with the "I hope you feel better" posts and do some real thinking. Most times when we are in pain, we choose to ignore the reality of a situation, and having it brought to light by an outside observer stings a little. But sometimes a wake up call is necessary. And so is looking at the situation from ALL angles.
Just another twist on the LIW forum.. Alot of "ladies in waiting" are the girls who are waiting for their guys to want to marry them, they are waiting for their partner to be on the same page, not waiting to get the ring that they know has already been bought. There are a few on here doing that, but they are not in any emotional pain, they are just excitedly waiting for the big proposal. (I think there are in reality 2 breeds of Ladies in Waiting) If your guy got the ring, then you KNOW he is on the same page. So it seems that the majority of the demographic on this forum topic are girls who are waiting for their guy to take the next step, and are coming here to help deal with the painful anxiety brought on by "the waiting game". Although to alot of women who never turned this kind of power over to their guy, this would seem a bit low self esteemish, it still goes on all over the world. I know of many men who are waiting on their girls to step up, but most men don't seem as willing to get support via posting online. Ironically enough, the very same people who are trying soooo hard to hasten the event, end up waiting longer than the girl who could care less, because most people who post are not only looking for support, they are hoping to scrounge together some tips they can use to control the situation, when if fact pulling back, not pushing forward is the best way to let a reluctant partner catch up or let a partner who's just there because you're easy and convenient go. And I don't believe it is a man/woman debate. It always boils down to whomever loves less holds the power and can use this power to entice the other to "wait". Just sayin.......

 

[surfgirl]

Okay, so chuckin' a fruity isn't exactly what I had in my mind - thank god - my vision was quite messy and really gross!

Junebug, I suppose you're right that there are two kinds of LIW and there are more of the "waiting for the guy to want to marry them" here than those that know a proposal is on the way. I didn't think about it that way. I do think though, in that case, even calling oneself a LIW infers that you are waiting around for him to create your destiny...and to me, that's rather sad in today's world. But hey, what the heck do I know! I do hope the OP takes our comments into consideration and really takes more charge in her own future though, no matter what way that path goes.

BTW Junebug, can you tell me how you shot your avatar pic? I've always loved the lighting!!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/4/2008 8:21:26 PM
Author: surfgirl
Okay, so chuckin'' a fruity isn''t exactly what I had in my mind - thank god - my vision was quite messy and really gross!

Junebug, I suppose you''re right that there are two kinds of LIW and there are more of the ''waiting for the guy to want to marry them'' here than those that know a proposal is on the way. I didn''t think about it that way. I do think though, in that case, even calling oneself a LIW infers that you are waiting around for him to create your destiny...and to me, that''s rather sad in today''s world. But hey, what the heck do I know! I do hope the OP takes our comments into consideration and really takes more charge in her own future though, no matter what way that path goes.

BTW Junebug, can you tell me how you shot your avatar pic? I''ve always loved the lighting!!

Well, I won''t ask what your image was, lest this thread get canned!

I''ve always thought there were two kinds of LIW on this board (if we''re talking generalizations here)...and the ones who are waiting are the ones who are long suffering and stay on the LIW longer. Others come because they are researching for their rings and know a proposal is imminent. Their stay is usually short. I do find it interesting though, that there is a bit of contradiction in the way we treat the former. Some say, take charge of your own destiny! And then when they want to do something bold like propose, we say, no no no! That''s his job and you should wait. (I know it''s a bit extreme in the other direction to propose yourself though, and I''d be in the traditional camp of not proposing, even while saying you need to take charge of your own destiny) However, normally the advice in the middle is sit him down, talk, and if it ain''t going to happen, make yourself walk...which I usually think is sound advice.

To the OP...I do agree with the others that it''s time to step back and take a little stock. The crazy ex engagement does make me raise an eyebrow. I know you said you waited a year to take him back after his breakup, but you also said he wooed you a long before you took him back. Why the rush on his end after such a nutty relationship?

 

[honey22]

Ok chickies - totally off the topic but chucking a fruity

I''m an aussie and I have never heard that one - but I like it

So thanks, that''s another one to use!!!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/4/2008 11:25:01 PM
Author: honey22
Ok chickies - totally off the topic but chucking a fruity

I''m an aussie and I have never heard that one - but I like it

So thanks, that''s another one to use!!!

Hm...must be a TGuyism? He says his family uses it, so it might just be something they say. But I do like it!

 

[risingsun]

I''m not going to chuck a fruity, because I still think it''s something quite naughty

I think we need to consider the developmental milestone that many young women are having to navigate at this point in their lives. Intimacy versus isolation is a core concern, which will affect ongoing psychosocial development. If we feel abandoned and rejected, our tendency is to move toward our partner and attempt to control them and the outcome of our relationships. Unfortunately, this often has the opposite of the desired effect. Trying to explain this to a woman who is depressed, anxious or fearful is a daunting task. Tough love doesnt always do the job--if it did, I would be out of a job

I think it is important to point out the "red flags," using language that others will, at least, hear.

 

[Jewels305]

Date: 1/5/2008 1:25:40 AM
Author: risingsun
I''m not going to chuck a fruity, because I still think it''s something quite naughty

I think we need to consider the developmental milestone that many young women are having to navigate at this point in their lives. Intimacy versus isolation is a core concern, which will affect ongoing psychosocial development. If we feel abandoned and rejected, our tendency is to move toward our partner and attempt to control them and the outcome of our relationships. Unfortunately, this often has the opposite of the desired effect. Trying to explain this to a woman who is depressed, anxious or fearful is a daunting task. Tough love doesnt always do the job--if it did, I would be out of a job

I think it is important to point out the ''red flags,'' using language that others will, at least, hear.

A little Erikson psychosical development... I like it, now you''re speaking my language. I think you are right that developmetally speaking, people are seeking out long term intimate relationships roughly around their 20s, and that it could be one factor behind people being anxious to finding a partner who is willing to make that sort of commitment.

I think that the question Holly asked is an interesting one, and I wrote a reflection paper on the topic for me personally this semester for grad school. I basically concluded that when a person is in their relationship a certain amount of time, they start to feel external pressure from society to begin thinking about the next step, marriage. People also feel internal pressure because they have self induced time lines of when things should happen. I think that this internal timetable is influenced by the media to a large extent, and also perhaps some peer pressure (for lack of a better term) of others getting engaged. For me personally, the questions started as soon as people realized I had been with my BF for a year. And although marriage was something that he and I had talked about in some detail at that point, I was shocked at how many times people mentioned it because I thought it was unbelievable that we had talked about it so early on!

It is just my personal theory that the high divorce rate that we are currently seeing may be the result of "giving in" to these pressures, and marrying and divorcing in the same amount of time that it might have taken a dating relationship to reach its expiration date. I don''t think that the pressure ends at engagement or marriage, because I know a lot of people who have gotten married who are now experiencing "baby pressure."

No matter what stage of their relationship people are in, I think it''s important to remember that each relationship is different and no one should be expected to follow the same timeline as anyone else. Just enjoy the time that you have now, and rest assured that everything will work out the way it was meant to.

Oh, I also like the term "chuckin'' a fruity" very much, so thanks for the new lingo TGal (and of course TGuy)!

 

[surfgirl]

Well Marion, to be honest, I thought "chuckin'' a fruity" was something that your little spaniel might do underneath the Christmas tree after eating something he ought not to, like, say, fruitcake...

I like what Marion and jewels305 are saying...very good food for thought.

That said, I thought that since this has become a topic of discussion recently, perhaps it deserves its own thread where people can discuss the elements and psychology of women who are single and who want to be engaged/married or whatever. There have been some great posts lately on other threads but in the interest of not thread-jacking the the original posts, might I suggest that TGal, rising sun, jewels305, holly, etc. re-post their more recent posts here so we can continue the discussion unabated? Perhaps those LIWs who are feeling desperate or depressed will now have a consolidated thread which they can refer to for differing opinions on the subject...Just a thought...

Marion, jewels, any good thoughts on a thread name? Go for it! I was thinking "Disentangling the psycho-social elements of LIWs" but it sounds like a thesis title!

 

[TravelingGal]

If you think it can be discussed politely Surfgirl, go for it. I think it should have been another separate thread anyway, instead of threadjacking this one, so I''m game.

 

[hearts-arrows_girl]

Date: 1/4/2008 8:21:26 PM
Author: surfgirl
Okay, so chuckin' a fruity isn't exactly what I had in my mind - thank god - my vision was quite messy and really gross!

Junebug, I suppose you're right that there are two kinds of LIW and there are more of the 'waiting for the guy to want to marry them' here than those that know a proposal is on the way. I didn't think about it that way. I do think though, in that case, even calling oneself a LIW infers that you are waiting around for him to create your destiny...and to me, that's rather sad in today's world. But hey, what the heck do I know! I do hope the OP takes our comments into consideration and really takes more charge in her own future though, no matter what way that path goes.

BTW Junebug, can you tell me how you shot your avatar pic? I've always loved the lighting!!

Surfgirl, You ah very wise grasshoppa!
My avatar photo: It was really just a lucky shot, 1 of 100 I've taken. My rings were in a ring box with white felty stuff for immediate background, the backdrop was grass and a hybiscus or riding hood vine (can't remember I used both that day) In the shade, with macro lense. no flash around 1pm - 4pm. Camera settings were on automatic (Fuji Finepix F10). My backyard is green grass with 5 orange trees, so I think the greens, tree trunk browns, oranges, + pinks (riding hood flowers), all contribute to the exact lighting for the photo. Also, my house, which is behind the hybiscus, is slate blue. My front yard photos never turn out like the backyard. Thanks for asking, I'm flattered that you like my avatar photo.
The new thread: I think the title you came up with will work fine! I will go there and put my 2cents in too.

 

[risingsun]

Date: 1/5/2008 4:33:14 PM
Author: surfgirl
Well Marion, to be honest, I thought 'chuckin' a fruity' was something that your little spaniel might do underneath the Christmas tree after eating something he ought not to, like, say, fruitcake...

I like what Marion and jewels305 are saying...very good food for thought.

That said, I thought that since this has become a topic of discussion recently, perhaps it deserves its own thread where people can discuss the elements and psychology of women who are single and who want to be engaged/married or whatever. There have been some great posts lately on other threads but in the interest of not thread-jacking the the original posts, might I suggest that TGal, rising sun, jewels305, holly, etc. re-post their more recent posts here so we can continue the discussion unabated? Perhaps those LIWs who are feeling desperate or depressed will now have a consolidated thread which they can refer to for differing opinions on the subject...Just a thought...

Marion, jewels, any good thoughts on a thread name? Go for it! I was thinking 'Disentangling the psycho-social elements of LIWs' but it sounds like a thesis title!

I think the title you chose was just fine! No more thesis writing for me

I am pleased to tell you that my little spaniel did not chuck a fruity, but my cats are likely to do so with their hairballs

 

[hisdiamondgirl]

Date: 1/4/2008 6:50:43 PM
Author: surfgirl

How do I fix this now?!?!?!??!?!?!?!

The thing is, YOU cant ''fix'' this. From what I read in your posts, and if you''re being honest with yourself, the only ''fix'' is for him to propose or tell you that he wants to marry you at some point, yes? If so, there isn''t a lot you can do to make him want to marry you. I know that''s not what you want to hear but that''s the reality. What you can do, is make sure that you are looking out for YOU and what is in your best interest. That can mean anything from taking a break from the relationship to let him decide what he really wants (and perhaps what you really want), to stopping playing house, to simply toning down the time you spend together and taking up some new hobbies, interests, etc. to help you decide just how long you are willing to wait. From what you''ve said here, your BF isn''t ready for marriage or engagement and it doesn''t seem like you are a LIW if that is the case. Perhaps your hanging out here is a way to pretend that you''re almost at a proposal? I''m not trying to be mean but it''s important to look at what is being said by your BF and I''m not hearing ''Yes! I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you!'' What I hear is, ''uh, yeah, maybe there''s a possibility we''ll be married one day...but not right now...'' You need to accept whatever stage you''re really at in this relationship and then decide how to move from there. That said, it''s not as easy at it seems and I totally understand that. Have you considered counseling, either individually or as a couple, or both?

Related to this whole subject, SJG said upthread:

''The boo-hoo, i''m not engaged yet thread is common here, because it''s a place where all LIWs have something in common - waiting for it, and you know that the others will support you when you feel like you''re going to explode.''

The problem with the above, is that so many of the girls who post threads like that aren''t really even on the verge of a proposal, they just ''want'' a proposal (I''m speaking in general, not of a specific post). Wanting a proposal does not a LIW make. If you''ve had serious talks about marriage and/or your guy has the ring or is in the process of getting the ring, then to me, that''s a LIW. But just because you want to get married to the guy you''re dating, doesn''t mean he wants to get married and therefore, you''re not a LIW are you? That''s where all the sugary ''Oh I know a proposal is just on the horizon for you, hugs!'' sort of post that are prevalent on those types of threads seem to be doing a dis service to the OP. I think that''s what holly and TG might be seeing too but I''m not sure. I see so many threads where if one looks objectively at an OP''s thread, their own words usually are quite telling and the only one who seems to be thinking they''re a LIW is the OP, and often, I''m guessing that their BF would probably be really surprised to read what they''re saying on a ''I''m almost engaged'' forum. That''s my opinion only, of course, but I dont think I''m the only one who gets that impression many times.

Thanks for responding surfgirl, but there are a few things in your post that I have taken slight issue with and need to clarify. When I ask "How do I fix this?" I was not implying that there is something wrong with my relationship itself, and that it needs fixing, or that the only way to "fix" whatever is wrong with it would be a proposal. I was simply referring to some of the ladies'' opinion that maybe the fact that we practically live as husband and wife, and do everything as husband and wife, has somehow delayed the progress of our relationship to the next level. I was simply seeking advice from anybody here who has been in the same situation as me. I was not asking for advice as to how to "make him" want to marry me. I am positive that our relationship is headed in one direction, and that is marriage. The fact that I am ready now, and he is not ready yet, does not change that. I don''t like to generalize much, but I''d say (from the experiences of people I know, as well as from reading posts on this board) that the majority of women tend to be ready for marriage before their SOs are. This does not mean that it is a deal breaker in every situation. We had a conversation about the subject of marriage a few months back, and I understand his reasons for not being ready yet, and I respect those reasons. That is why I have decided to postpone any future conversation about the topic until the summer. I am willing to wait until then to see where he is and take it from there.

As to me not being a LIW, I lurked here for some months before I registered and started posting, and from what I have read, not every woman here has gone ring shopping or knows that her SO has the ring or is shopping. If I came to the wrong place, then I am sorry, but I CERTAINLY DO NOT come here to pretend that my relationship is anything that it is not!!!! I come here because I can relate to many of the posters'' experiences and often take away some good advice from many postings!! I consider myself a LIW because, as I said before, I know that my relationship is headed in that direction, it is just a matter of time! I also come here to vent in the meantime because I am eager to be engaged to the man that I love, but I have some measure of self-control and have decided that constantly bringing it up to HIM is not the way to go. This is not to say that I feel like I CANNOT talk about it with him, it is just a conscious decision on my part not to.

As to counseling, that is something that I would totally consider...we''ll see what happens when I sit him down in the summer, but it is something that I am totally open to.

And to respond to the whole psychology of marriage thread, which has been moved to another thread but which started here:

I have always taken charge of my own future, and have never waited around for anyone to take care of me or do anything for me. I am an attorney at a prestigious NYC law firm and can take care of myself all by myself, I have friends, hobbies, interests separate from those of my BF, etc... I do not think that "waiting" a few months to see where my BF is in terms of my relationship, means that I am any less in charge of my own destiny. It means simply that I am willing to compromise what I want RIGHT NOW, to not push somebody into something they may not be ready for yet! This is not to say that I am ready to wait around forever, and to tell you the truth, I don''t know how long I am willing to wait. I am still young, am in no rush to have children, am having an amazing time with my BF as we love to travel and see the world, and go on impromptu road trips, and are just having a great time! Although I want to be married to him, this is fine the way it is too, and if it''s ever not fine, then I am willing to walk, as hard as that may be!