Pre-Marital Counseling

[DonaBella]

Just thought I''d contribute to this thread...I am an old fart since I have been married 25 years, but I am only 46 and still feel learning as much as one can before getting married about yourself, your perspective mate and what''s ahead of you is invaluable.

In my day, taking a compatibility test was highly promoted and their was additional counseling if you wanted at the college we both attended. Formal counseling was not initiated for couples back then, but there was preparation for marriage classes and we took those and it helped somewhat.

My son and his fiancee started premarital counseling the week following their engagement. She was already seeing a counselor for herself since her folks'' divorce and so they expanded things and started with the couples'' premarital sessions. They see her together, individually and it has been ongoing since last August of 2005. It has been very helpful and assisted them through the increasing stress of engagement time.

I say, if you are going to go through the process to get married, then by all means get as much assistance as you can to make the most important relationship you will ever have work. The divorce rate just is too high to ignore and why should anyone not get some training or guidance to avoid it if possible? I feel if you pass it up, its an opportunity wasted.

For my son and his FI, it has been truly helpful...and since they have shared with us the benefits--so far anyways---I am so happy that they have invested their time in it and pray it helps in their future as husband and wife...

 

[fisherofmengirly]

Exactly, DeannaBana! It''s no harm, at all. And if it''ll help, why not take the opportunity? I know some therapists offer reduced prices for these sessions, since they see it as something really helpful and necessary to prevent *extreme issues* later on. Also, if you go through church, there''s no fee involved at all. I even have a friend at work who is engaged, and while she doesn''t go to church, or really know if she wants to be married in a church, they go to a local church for their counseling, and the pastor is working with them free of charge, and she''s not felt and *strong pull* from him on being *converted*-- I hate that word!!-- or anything. She says he just talks to them about things that they''d not really thought about, or sheds light on things they''d not seen from that angle before, and she likes that he gives his own experience, and even when he talks about God, it''s in a natural way, because that''s how he lives his life, so it flows out naturally, not as if she''s being pressured to live her life his way. Anyway, she was really tense about going, thinking she''d be ridiculed for not being a church-goer, but it''s not that way at all. And he''s just doing it in attempt to help them build a marriage that won''t end in divorce.

If it can only help you see one another and situations more clearly, why not do it? I agree!

 

[Blue824]

This is something that we have talked about doing because we just think it''d be good for us as a couple... there may not be any surprises, but we figured it can only make our relationship stronger by perhaps helping us learn how to communicate better and stuff like that. Or maybe it''ll bring up a subject that we have forgotten to talk about that will be of great importance to us in the future. He and I almost started recently because we hit a snag in our relationship ship and thought that it would be a good way for us to solve it... we didn''t but we''ve both agreed that before we get married we will do a few sessions or if we ever felt that there was a problem we couldn''t handle, before acting out or acting rashly we''d make go to a few appointments.

 

[tomswife2007]

Hi everyone! I just started a thread on this in Bride World Wide...but DiamondLil told me about this one so I decided to join.
My fiance and I were both raised Catholic and practiced the whole nine up until about 2 years ago. We just got sick of all of the man made rules and regulations going on so we don''t practice any more. We are getting married next year in an outdoor wedding ceremony and our friend who is a Lutheran minister is marrying us. He told us jusy to let him know what we want to do for the ceremony...the structure of it is up to us. He mentioned that we should try to get set up in the pre marital classes, but never told us it was a requirement like it is for the Catholic faith, or at least in our diocese.

We know a lot of people that are Catholic and did the classes in the past that were disappointed and felt it was another ploy by the Church to control things since you are not allowed to get married unless the classes are completed (please no one that is Catholic and still practicing take offense to any of this...it is just an opinion due to bad experiences). They were around Tom and my age (btwn 33 and 40-Tom and I will be 39 and 36 on our big day), but everyone else attending the classes were btwn 20 and 25. One of the things that sticks in my mind that they told us about was that they discussed how to balance a check book. I understand it is probably to teach everyone how to live on a budget when it now involves you, your spouse, and possibly children. HOWEVER, for a couple like Tom and I who are proud to say (especially in todays world) that we have no debt, it would be an utter waste of time. We have always been the type to not spend money we don''t have, we don''t live off of credit, and if we can''t afford it we don''t get it until we are able to afford it and even then we way whether or not it is considered a want or a need. We were even like this before we met. So for us, things like that would be a waste of time. On another note, we have no idea other than that what the classes are about or if they are even like that today.

If anyone can post some of the things included in the classes (I apologize if someone already has...didn''t have a chance to read everyones post yet) we would greatly apprectiate it. Also, what is the purpose of the classes and is it a requirement in all faiths to go through them before you are able to get married? Thanks!

 

[DonaBella]

Date: 5/1/2006 11:24:53 AM
Author: tomswife2007
Hi everyone! I just started a thread on this in Bride World Wide...but DiamondLil told me about this one so I decided to join.
My fiance and I were both raised Catholic and practiced the whole nine up until about 2 years ago. We just got sick of all of the man made rules and regulations going on so we don''t practice any more. We are getting married next year in an outdoor wedding ceremony and our friend who is a Lutheran minister is marrying us. He told us jusy to let him know what we want to do for the ceremony...the structure of it is up to us. He mentioned that we should try to get set up in the pre marital classes, but never told us it was a requirement like it is for the Catholic faith, or at least in our diocese.

We know a lot of people that are Catholic and did the classes in the past that were disappointed and felt it was another ploy by the Church to control things since you are not allowed to get married unless the classes are completed (please no one that is Catholic and still practicing take offense to any of this...it is just an opinion due to bad experiences). They were around Tom and my age (btwn 33 and 40-Tom and I will be 39 and 36 on our big day), but everyone else attending the classes were btwn 20 and 25. One of the things that sticks in my mind that they told us about was that they discussed how to balance a check book. I understand it is probably to teach everyone how to live on a budget when it now involves you, your spouse, and possibly children. HOWEVER, for a couple like Tom and I who are proud to say (especially in todays world) that we have no debt, it would be an utter waste of time. We have always been the type to not spend money we don''t have, we don''t live off of credit, and if we can''t afford it we don''t get it until we are able to afford it and even then we way whether or not it is considered a want or a need. We were even like this before we met. So for us, things like that would be a waste of time. On another note, we have no idea other than that what the classes are about or if they are even like that today.

If anyone can post some of the things included in the classes (I apologize if someone already has...didn''t have a chance to read everyones post yet) we would greatly apprectiate it. Also, what is the purpose of the classes and is it a requirement in all faiths to go through them before you are able to get married? Thanks!

I wanted to shed a little light on what is discussed in these sessions. My son and his FI have been pretty upfront with us, without our asking, I might add...

Debt is not the only subject covered...far from it. Their subject matter covers sex, communication between each other--really listening before one responds, for instance, dealing with family of orientation sensitivities, family holidays--with whom do you visit first, etc., this list goes on and on.

I am thrilled that for you that you have no debt, however, the foundation of a good marriage can be rocked by other factors that I guess I would hope that anyone getting married invests the time to go through the exercises to test their responses to probable life situations.

Quite honestly, I wish I had had these classes available to me before I got married. Our courses that we took in preparation for marriage were good and we role-played them out, but what I have witnessed as far as maturation and change in my 23 year old in his readiness for marriage since last August has been amazing.

Also, I heard of a non-denominational type of counseling with no converting attached that alot of communities have, at least where I live. For those who do not belong to the church where it is being held, it was a $190 fee and it went for either 4 months or 6 months...I can''t quite remember. My oldest daughter was going to go to that when she was engaged, but they broke up before we signed them up.

A person cannot get a driver''s license without passing a class and some tests...I wish getting a marriage license took more effort...

 

[selflove]

Date: 5/1/2006 11:54:49 AM
Author: DeannaBana

A person cannot get a driver''s license without passing a class and some tests...I wish getting a marriage license took more effort...

Amen to that! And how about a test and some classes before you can have a child, hmm? But that''s a whole ''nother Oprah.

On the subject of pre-marital counseling, FI and I did the pre-cana 1-day class offered by the catholic church. It was great...the topics covered were not what I expected (I really expected a lot of "Catholics should do this" and "Catholics shouldn''t do that"). There was a lot on how you deal with conflict and how you resolve things, how you visualize your future, communication skills, your family of origin and how it could impact your marriage, finances, and only a little bit on how you practice your "faith". That was the biggest obstacle for us, me not being Christian and FI being Catholic.

I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND for anyone to attend this or something like it. We also took the FOCUSS (I think that''s abbreviation) test for interfaith couples. I''d recommend that too, at the very least, for a dialogue starting point.

 

[tomswife2007]

Date: 5/1/2006 11:54:49 AM
Author: DeannaBana

I wanted to shed a little light on what is discussed in these sessions. My son and his FI have been pretty upfront with us, without our asking, I might add...

Debt is not the only subject covered...far from it. Their subject matter covers sex, communication between each other--really listening before one responds, for instance, dealing with family of orientation sensitivities, family holidays--with whom do you visit first, etc., this list goes on and on.

I am thrilled that for you that you have no debt, however, the foundation of a good marriage can be rocked by other factors that I guess I would hope that anyone getting married invests the time to go through the exercises to test their responses to probable life situations.

Quite honestly, I wish I had had these classes available to me before I got married. Our courses that we took in preparation for marriage were good and we role-played them out, but what I have witnessed as far as maturation and change in my 23 year old in his readiness for marriage since last August has been amazing.

Also, I heard of a non-denominational type of counseling with no converting attached that alot of communities have, at least where I live. For those who do not belong to the church where it is being held, it was a $190 fee and it went for either 4 months or 6 months...I can''t quite remember. My oldest daughter was going to go to that when she was engaged, but they broke up before we signed them up.

A person cannot get a driver''s license without passing a class and some tests...I wish getting a marriage license took more effort...

Thanks for the information...but our situation is quite unique. See we only have his side of the family in our life and they are wonderful. My parents, however, are no longer in the picture. My mother forged my signature for credit cards and lines of credit several years ago so that her and my father could live a lifestyle they could not afford...above their means. She put me in about $80,000 worth of debt that has been taken care of and removed from my name, responsibility, and credit reports (thank God) because it is fraud and ID theft.

The whole thing has been under investigation by the Federal Govt since she also committed mail fraud and will most likely be going to jail at some point in time. I have even been asked if I would testify against her when it comes to trial and I agreed. I know that may shock all of you reading this, but my mother unfortunately is no different than any common criminal that could have done this to any of us.

Tom and I have been together through all of this for the past 3 years, so believe me, we have been and are still going through something that most couples don''t go through and it was not easy and sometimes still isn''t with the amount of stress it has caused us. At this point we could probably teach a class to others getting married on how not to lie and deceive your children or each other and on how not to be a parent. I of course no longer talk to my parents and I am an only child so that makes it hard as well. It is a very unfortunate situation and emotionally and mentally it has taken its toll, but Tom has been my rock and never once left my side through any of it.

Sorry to go off on a tangent about my crazy, abnormal, dysfunctional life...but if that is what the classes are about then they aren''t something that Tom and I feel we need to attend in order to make what we have already done on our own work. Trust me...we have the strongest foundation any couple could ever dream of having with all that we have had to go through in the past 3 years.

What we may do instead, is ask Rev. Bill our officiant/friend if he could come and talk to us. He lives several hours away from us, but maybe we will invite he and his family to our house for a weekend and see if he can talk to us about things he feels are more tapered to our needs rather than attending the actual classes where things that really don''t pertain to us are discussed. He knows the gist of what has gone on with my family and how it''s affected Tom and I, but maybe we can actually sit down with him and tell him what we would like to work on. Opinions please?

 

[DonaBella]

Wow...you have had a completely different situation than the average couple, that is for sure. So sorry to hear of it. You are seriously blessed to have your guy in your life to be so strong for you.

I hope I didn''t offend because that is not what I intended. My comments were meant for the average couple who is out there, engaged, who think that because they have lived together, or that because they know each other "so well", they do not need to spend the money or time to do the counseling.

I cannot tell you of how many couples we--my husband and I--have known, let alone the couples my son and his FI have known who didn''t take some sort of counseling course before they were married and had wished they had. Does taking this course guarantee that they will not divorce??? Of course not, but it seems to help the couples to be more geared or more likely to get through life-challenges better.

That is all I was hoping to convery...so I hope no one is taking this wrong...

 

[rainbowtrout]

I certainly don''t mind others getting counseling, but I''m not really of the mind that I need it (anyone else there?)

What I DO want is to speak to a rabbi at some length before the wedding, and speak with him both alone and with FI about possible ways we can make the "interfaith" (I suppose we''re interfaith, he''s Jewish and I''m nothing) part of our marriage work. We''ve talked about it at some length, but I''d like to speak to a rabbi and discuss my options.

I think part of my hesitation about this is that over a decade we''ve pretty much covered the major life questions. What we''ve speculated on, such as children, we won''t really know how we feel about until we reach the point of making that choice. I may think that I want 1 child now, and decide later I want 4. This happened to my FMIL, actually.

If he takes a personality test and it doesn''t match up with mine...well, I''m not leaving him, so what''s the point? Older married couples I know who did go through counseling quite frequently changed 180 degrees from where they began with issues such as money and children.

 

[tomswife2007]

Date: 5/1/2006 3:22:43 PM
Author: DeannaBana
Wow...you have had a completely different situation than the average couple, that is for sure. So sorry to hear of it. You are seriously blessed to have your guy in your life to be so strong for you.

I hope I didn''t offend because that is not what I intended. My comments were meant for the average couple who is out there, engaged, who think that because they have lived together, or that because they know each other ''so well'', they do not need to spend the money or time to do the counseling.

I cannot tell you of how many couples we--my husband and I--have known, let alone the couples my son and his FI have known who didn''t take some sort of counseling course before they were married and had wished they had. Does taking this course guarantee that they will not divorce??? Of course not, but it seems to help the couples to be more geared or more likely to get through life-challenges better.

That is all I was hoping to convery...so I hope no one is taking this wrong...

I completely understand and you didn''t offend me at all. Thanks! Yeah we are definitely not the norm when it comes to our situation. However, you would be surprised how many people in the world are going through something very similar where a family member committed this crime against them.

I appreciate your insight and would love your opinion on what I asked earlier...If my fiance and I should invite our friend/Luteran minister and his family to our home and basically discuss things relative to our situation that may help us for our future prior to getting married. This I feel would be better than the pre cana classes everyone usually goes through. What do you think?

 

[sumbride]

I''ve been thinking about it, but am not sure because my boyfriend isn''t really fond of counseling, and neither of us are even remotely religious. It seems all the sessions around our area are through a church and neither of us will set foot inside a church unless we''re attending somebody else''s wedding or funeral. We''re very adamant about that.

We''ve been living together for almost a year though and have covered the day-to-day housework, etc... it''s the big issues that I think we need to address. We''ve started talking about it, but not remotely in the way we need to. He asked me if I would divorce him if he never wanted to have kids and I said no because I didn''t know if I wanted them either... we''re both sort of in the "maybe" stage, not sure which way it will go. I just feel like we''ve been able to make decisions together in the past, and that''s one we can decide together as well.

Does anybody know of non-religious counseling in the Baltimore/DC area? It really CAN''T be in a church.

 

[fisherofmengirly]

From my perspective, and that of what I've seen with friends/co-workers/classmates, typically there are actual sessions that a couple take part in, and in that, you don't follow a class, and you work through what you need to talk about, etc. If money is a place where you're on the same page, the stay on that topic is brief. It's pretty individualized.

There are also opportunities often times at community colleges to do pre-marital counseling, often with someone who's an adjunt professor working on their Counseling Degree, PhD, or licensure. Sometimes *x* number of hours of clinical work required for licensure can be collected by offering services to the community, at reduced or even free prices. So, counseling certainly doesn't have to be linked to a church, at all. It may seem that way because churches marry people, and often pastors/priests/rabbis/bishops prefer not to marry a couple who they don't feel has the commitment and ability to survive the trials of a life lived together, as they see marriage as a holy sacrament.

There are lots of ways to get counseling without going through a church, though. It doesn't have to be a matter of religious faith, at all, really.

Sumbride, I'm not in DC, but I will see if I can find anything online. I suggest calling community colleges, though. Or even calling your local mental health department, as they often refer people to counselors who work on a sliding scale, and some professionals are *so* inclined that counseling prior to marriage is a benefit, that they'll do it for next to nothing.

So far, I found only this... she's NOT inexpensive at all, but sometimes, if you call and explain what you're looking for, and the amount of money you have available, they can refer you to someone who can meet those needs. Professionals in thsi area are typically willing to do this. http://www.helenrudinsky.com/couplescounseling.html

*Also,* here is a big list of professionals. Surely one of them will know about what your area offers! Good luck! http://www.findingstone.com/find-a-therapist/regions/usa/MD.htm

 

[sumbride]

Thanks so much fisher!

That''s a great help! I''ll go through that info later and see what I can find out. I think it would help both of us relax a bit... he''s seen too many bad marriages so he''s a bit scared of what can happen whereas I''m of the "Divorce doesn''t happen" family and think things can always be worked through. I think it would be good for us, for anybody. Thanks a lot!!!

 

[fisherofmengirly]

Oh you''re welcome, Sumbride. I hope it helps.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 4/29/2006 1:14:08 PM
Author: DiamondLil

No wonder the divorce rate is what it is if young ladies are so focused on getting their man down the isle, they forget that who the man REALLY is will NOT change with a piece of paper. If issues such as having children are not discussed during the courtship phase of a relationship, then you have no business getting married. Sorry if I offend anyone by saying that.

AH-MEN!

I cannot express how much I agree. Amen, amen, amen.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Date: 5/1/2006 12:57:15 PM
Author: selflove

Date: 5/1/2006 11:54:49 AM
Author: DeannaBana

A person cannot get a driver''s license without passing a class and some tests...I wish getting a marriage license took more effort...

Amen to that! And how about a test and some classes before you can have a child, hmm? But that''s a whole ''nother Oprah.

On the subject of pre-marital counseling, FI and I did the pre-cana 1-day class offered by the catholic church. It was great...the topics covered were not what I expected (I really expected a lot of ''Catholics should do this'' and ''Catholics shouldn''t do that''). There was a lot on how you deal with conflict and how you resolve things, how you visualize your future, communication skills, your family of origin and how it could impact your marriage, finances, and only a little bit on how you practice your ''faith''. That was the biggest obstacle for us, me not being Christian and FI being Catholic.

I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND for anyone to attend this or something like it. We also took the FOCUSS (I think that''s abbreviation) test for interfaith couples. I''d recommend that too, at the very least, for a dialogue starting point.

I did Pre-Cana too with my Protestant husband, and we both liked it (although he less than I). But I''ve also done Engaged Encounter with an ex-boyfriend, before we were even engaged. I know that sounds weird, but we figured why not, since it''s better to talk about that sort of stuff before you get engaged (IMHO). And in the end, we didn''t even make it to the engagement stage, so I guess it worked!

 

[AmberGretchen]

Hi - a slightly different perspective here. We''ve been doing pre-marital counseling/wedding ceremony planning in individual sessions with our rabbi for about 6-8 months now. For the first few sessions she gave us exercises to do, and then we built on those. We''ve found it to be a very valuable experience for several reasons. First, it has allowed us to get to know this rabbi - its a synagogue I''ve been a member of since childhood but this rabbi started there while I was away at college so I never really got to know her. This has provided us with a way to get to know her and has increased our desire to be part of this particular community.

Second, it provides a sort of oasis in the midst of planning where we can talk about any issues that have come up and take the time to appreciate each other. One of the exercises we did was writing a two-page essay about the first 6 months of our relationship, which was wonderful to then read to each other at the session. My FI and I talk A LOT about life issues and major decisions on things like having children, what religion to raise them in, handling finances, what we see in our future in terms of money, location, etc... and other important aspects of life. We''ve gone into a great deal of detail, such as, for example, how we would handle it if I were pregnant and the fetus was diagnosed with a severe disability or disease. I''m sure we haven''t covered everything, but that sort of wasn''t what we needed out of marriage counseling because we do a pretty good job of that on our own. What has been important for us was to air some of our family history (especially mine) and to get advice from someone outside our relationship on handling our (often difficult) family situations, so I guess that''s the third major thing I''ve gotten out of it.

 

[fisherofmengirly]

I''m so glad those of you who''ve done it have enjoyed it, learned from it, and grown closer because of it. That''s the point! Yay!

We had our first session this weekend. Mostly, it was a time for us to talk about our relationship to this point, why we were drawn to one another, ways we''ve grown by being in the relationship, and we also did an evaluation of our personality and communication styles, compared to how we see the other. Interesting indeed. I look forward to following sessions!

 

[zhuzhu]

Given that my relationship with FI has been long distance so far, and we will live in the same city for only 9 months before the wedding, I am seriously considering pre-marital counseling.

COuld someone shield light on what a typical session is like for non-religious conseling? Also, if your FI was resistant to it at the beginning, how did you convince him to go?

 

[DonaBella]

Date: 5/1/2006 3:52:31 PM
Author: tomswife2007

Date: 5/1/2006 3:22:43 PM
Author: DeannaBana
Wow...you have had a completely different situation than the average couple, that is for sure. So sorry to hear of it. You are seriously blessed to have your guy in your life to be so strong for you.

I hope I didn''t offend because that is not what I intended. My comments were meant for the average couple who is out there, engaged, who think that because they have lived together, or that because they know each other ''so well'', they do not need to spend the money or time to do the counseling.

I cannot tell you of how many couples we--my husband and I--have known, let alone the couples my son and his FI have known who didn''t take some sort of counseling course before they were married and had wished they had. Does taking this course guarantee that they will not divorce??? Of course not, but it seems to help the couples to be more geared or more likely to get through life-challenges better.

That is all I was hoping to convery...so I hope no one is taking this wrong...

I completely understand and you didn''t offend me at all. Thanks! Yeah we are definitely not the norm when it comes to our situation. However, you would be surprised how many people in the world are going through something very similar where a family member committed this crime against them.

I appreciate your insight and would love your opinion on what I asked earlier...If my fiance and I should invite our friend/Luteran minister and his family to our home and basically discuss things relative to our situation that may help us for our future prior to getting married. This I feel would be better than the pre cana classes everyone usually goes through. What do you think?

So sorry to have not responded sooner...I won''t get into it but I had a family emergency so I was away...anyways, I think this is an excellent idea and worth doing.

Be sure to let us know how it went...