Pre-Purchase Consulting Services for colored stones?

[keen]

First, Can anyone recommend an online consultant who offers a pre-purchase opinion on the quality and market pricing for a sapphire offered on-line?
If provided with decent photos and a GIA report for the stone can this be done? I am not looking for a detailed "appraisal" only a general opinion on the stone and some direction on price per carat. This would be to help me decide to move forward with that specific stone and help in knowing what to offer/negotiate for the stone.

Second, assuming I do move forward with the purchase, I would like to have an independent appraisal done on the actual stone before the return period has expired. Are there some recommendations for independent gemologist that have an eye for the sapphire market?

Thank you for any input in advance,

keen

 

[imagardener2]

What a good idea (because I think the same thing )

Many people here are so knowledgeable (and I am not) that if I were thinking of a BIG purchase I'd want their expert opinions on price/quality of the stone under consideration. Of course that's what we have now and those who want a GIA or other appraisal can have that done before final purchase.

I've really learned a lot from reading opinions about stones posted: windows and extinction and more.
It's like having a friend in the gem business you can get expert guidance and unbiased opinions from.

to the poster: what are you wanting that is more than you can get on this forum? privacy for your purchase so the stone doesn't get swooped up from under you?

 

[pregcurious]

I agree with the post above that you can get a lot of pre-purchase consulting here. If you want something more formal, you may want to ask an independent appraiser, but I have not heard of them doing this. I think it's good that you want to seek advice.

As far as getting the stone inspected during the return period, you are correct that an independent appraiser will do this. Let us now in what area of the country you live, and hopefully a PSer near you will suggest someone. This type of service is not inexpensive.

I live near DC, and went to Martin Fuller in McLean, VA when I bought a red spinel from a very reputation dealer. I needed the appraisal anyway, but he also spent an hour+ inspecting the stone to insure it was natural (including looking under a microscope and taking pictures of inclusions), and gave me his assessment of the quality and price. (I kept the stone, but returned a previous purchase which he also inspected.) I recommend Martin with hesitation, and others on this board are also happy customers. He has worked with the Smithsonian, and has been in the jewelry biz for a quite a long time.

 

[cm366]

Pregcurious,

Is there a reason for hesitation you'd feel comfortable sharing with us, or is that a typo?

 

[LD]

NOBODY should be giving you a written appraisal based on a stone they've never seen and have only seen photos of. There is absolutely no way to accurately assess $ per carat without seeing the stone in person. For example, I can take a photo, you can take one of the same stone and it may look completely different. In one photo (without meaning to) the stone can look to be a better colour so the potential value would be higher.

Also, an appraiser will want to look at the stone under magnification to determine if there are any worrying characteristics - again an important part of any evalution.

Lastly, sapphires are some of the most treated gemstones. In a photo it's absolutely impossible to tell if a stone is natural, heated only, or heated and treated or filled, or dyed etc etc etc.

If a coloured gemstone has a GIA report, I would prefer to send it to AGL for a second opinion. GIA appear to be better at grading diamonds and AGL are coloured gemstone specialists.

This forum will help weed out poor candidates and you get objective opinions. However, NOTHING is better than taking a stone to a coloured gemstone expert to examine in person and then, critically, to sending the stone to a lab for a confirmatory report (if the stone doesn't have one already).

Hope that helps.

 

[chrono]

If there is such a person, I would question their abilities. The best way is to view the stone in person under various lighting conditions. What the forum members are doing here is giving their best guess based on prior personal experience whether the stone is worth a look in person or a waste of shipping fee.

 

[pregcurious]

Yes, that was a typo. I recommend him _without_ hesitation.

I don't think the OP was looking for a prepurchase appraisal. I think the OP just wanted someone "official" to go to for an opinion. PS is a good place to get guidance, assuming one has the time to read and teach yourself, and post and repost to solicit opinions. I think PS works, but it takes a lot of time and effort.

 

[keen]

First, thank you everyone who posted, lots of good advice.

I am not looking for an appraisal before the stone is in my possession and available for an in person evaluation. What I would like is for an expert to take a look at the information I have (GIA Cert, Photos, etc) and give me advice in the $ range per carat that they would think would be a reasonable range. Also, I would like for them to tell me any red flags they may see or additional per-purchase information I should be asking for. I am not looking for guarantees, only expert advice based on the available info.

I am hesitant to post the stone info on a public thread due to privacy concerns and concerns about someone else purchasing the stone before I have a chance to make my offer. Maybe I am being silly... That is why I thought an independent 3-rd party evaluation as described above may be the way to go. If that does not exist, I am not sure what to do next...

I currently live in Central California and have good access to both the Bay Area and LA for meeting with an appraiser once the stone arrives. Any thoughts on this? Should I have it go to another LAB also or just to an appraiser?

Thanks again everyone, I used PS (Diamond talk) a bunch years ago to buy a emerald cut diamond and have a custom setting made (Juan L. made the setting) and it really turned out great. I am hoping for another great process this time around.

 

[kenny]

I wouldn't pay anyone.
There is quite a bit of expertise here on this forum.

Reserve it or (if there is a no-questions-asked return policy) buy it.
Then post all info and pics here.
Sure live examination is best, but you can still get lots of expert help here.

 

[chrono]

No appraiser is going to stake their reputation to give you price/ct range based on photos and GIA report. The GIA memo gives you little information other than it is a natural stone, measurements, and treatment. It does not give any colour quality evaluation. Not only that, all he/she has to go on is usually a single static photo, and if lucky, a video under controlled lighting condition. What you can get for free here is advice on the highest possible chance of getting something pretty and reasonably priced that fits your specification. The only way to protect the stone from being underswiped is to reserve the stone right off the bat, then post pictures and ask your questions.

If you plan to look at multiple stones with the appraiser, be sure that:
1. You get the stones to arrive at the same time to get a fair comparison.
2. Make sure the appraiser understands coloured gemstones. Just having the GIA training and GG title behind his name is insufficient.
3. Labs do not grade stones and provide little information (gem type, measurement, colour, treatment). The only lab that does more than this AGL's Prestige report, but it also costs more and you don't want to do this with every stone that you look at.

 

[slksapphire]

keen,

this is a great question ... i wanted this type of help when i started looking for my sapphire and here is what i learned.

1. you/an expert CANNOT judge a sapphire by photos/video/GIA certificate. it must be viewed in person, in different environments. the reason is that seemingly small differences in tone, hue, saturation, extinction, cut, etc can have a HUGE impact on price and those factors can really only be discerned by your eye.

-- a caveat. PERHAPS you could rely on an AGL prestige report since it "objectively" grades many of these factors (and chris smith would be considered a sapphire expert). Then you could compare a stone with others based on AGL grades and TQIR. but still, i wouldn't do it. and, AGL prestige reports are expensive.

2. there are a limited number of true colored gemstone experts around. really. and it may be very expensive (logistically) to show every stone you are considering to one of them (either shipping stones with insurance or hand delivering them).

3. colored gemstone experts are valuable, i.e., they need to be paid for their time helping you. since their "rates" are likely to be quite high, it's probably not worth it unless you are looking for a high-value gemstone.

4. one seller who works on this kind of model is richard wise; i think most people would agree that he is knowledgeable about sapphires and that you are paying for "his eye" when you buy a stone from him (through his markup).

5. i have observed that many of the "experts" on this site have developed their eye the old-fashioned way, through lots of practice! buying a sapphire online requires lots of failed purchases at various price points in order to figure out what is the market price, and what can be had for a particular budget. it takes a lot of time, money tied up in stones that are ultimately returned and patience.

sorry i don't have a simple answer, but this is what i learned through my search.

*** EDIT: in order to figure out whether a purchase is good or bad, i have found the experts on this site to be incredibly helpful in providing honest opinions, if possible, OR saying it's impossible to say, based on photographs/video. again, not a perfect solution but the best resource i could find to help me learn.

 

[pregcurious]

Before I bought my first expensive gem, I saw as many high end colored stones as possible in person. I looked at ones that were close to what I was looking for, and even ones I was not looking for. I tried to teach myself about stones in general. I think this is a first step. If you can find at least 2 or 3 reputable stores (reputation built on carrying colored stones, not diamonds).

You can also try ordering stones online, but I didn't feel comfortable doing this until I was somewhat confident about my knowledge. Even then, I still can't hold a candle to most of the collectors here.