Prenup or no prenup?

[~*Alexis*~]

What do you all think about prenups? My boyfriend has made it very clear that he refuses to get married unless he has one. I think that if you have one then you kinda subconsciously not being 100% in the marriage. That way you have a plan b. I always told myslef that I would never have one or get married with one. i am not really sure that to think at this point. Any ideas?

 

[aljdewey]

If you do a search on prenups, you''ll see there is at least one very extensive thread on this that might have what you''re looking for.

 

[~*Alexis*~]

I did do a search, I came up empty.

 

[decodelighted]

I read your other posts & saw that you guys are 21 & 22 ... so you haven''t had a huge life experience with your friends/peers getting married & maybe divorced. Not to be a naysayer but 50-60% of marraiges DO end in divorce. If you had a 50% chance of going bankrupt, but could file some paperwork now to protect some of your assests/your home/life''s savings if that did happen ... would you do it? For a lot of people it''s just a matter of practicality & not necessarily a reflection on the strength of your love & committment. Or, say you didn''t sign it, and his "family fortune" is at stake if you divorce ... do you want to be married to someone who''s only staying to keep his fortune in tact??

Personal choice, but I wouldn''t make it a deal breaker without further investigation & discussion. Get your own lawyer, by the way! It is NEVER a good idea to share a lawyer.

 

[firebirdgold]

I guess it really depends what the person (or their family) is worried about protecting. It''s not just divorce, but also helps keep assets within the family in the event of death and remarriage.

My family really wants me to have a prenup, but my bf really thinks it''s expressing a lack of confidence in the marriage. He has said that there is no way he''s signing one. And I choose to support my bf in this. So I did some checking and most states view assets brought into the marriage and inheirtance during the marriage as personal not joint property. Which means that they are already protected. (Hopefully this and a talk with the lawyer will allay my parents remaining concerns). I always said that I would that I have a prenup, but now I realize that I do not in any way need one with this wonderful man.

That said, I think my sister will have one but her circumstances are different. Not that the guy is less trustworthy or anything, but there''s just more complicating factors like kids and stuff. Ahhhhh! My sister''s going to be a step-mom!

Also, I guess you never do know. My friend probably totally trusted her ex when they got married and it never occured to either of them .... ok.. to her that something could go wrong. Like, oh, say, 20 years and a couple kids later he''s gay. oops.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/16/2006 11:17:08 PM
Author: ~*Alexis*~
I did do a search, I came up empty.

i started that thread, now i can't find it

anyway....i'm 100% for signing a prenup , fair is fair.what he/she accumulated in wealth before marriage belongs to that person.

 

[E B]

No pre-nup for us. As of right now, my fiance and I have nothing of great value. Well, except for our pug, but she's 50/50 anyway (okay, 55/45 me). I'd understand one for older couples who've accumulated some sort of wealth, though!

 

[Mara]

haha i think that thread was deleted because it got so 'heated'.... that was also the secret stash thread!!

personally i do also agree that a pre-nup is like saying you expect the marriage to go south. BUT if someone has alot of assets to protect, then it does make sense...kind of like just covering your butt. but refer back to expecting the marriage to go south again. hmm. i think it would also depend on who else was involved. aka if the people are older, children are involved and the parent getting married wants to protect their assets for the children not of this marriage...i guess that their potential mate could argue 'well don't you trust me to take care of them' but i think if my kids were involved, i may not be AS trusting. seriously people can be ugly about money sometimes. BUT then you really should trust your potential mate with your LIFE if you marry them, and i guess that includes your $$?

for us it was easy, we didn't really bring anything to the marriage that was worth much before. we bought our house together before the marriage and that was our largest 'asset'. CA is a community property state as well so whatever we do after the marriage is 50/50 anyway.

i think it would bother me if my bf said that he would never marry without a prenup...on one hand you understand practicality but on the other hand you are kind of secretly offended. that's me anyway!

 

[Dancing Fire]

i don''t mind signing a prenup if my gf was loaded , just to show her i''am not marrying her for the money.

 

[Momoftwo]

I remember that previous thread as I posted on it. I do not believe in prenups for the basic reason it''s like saying, "so, when we get divorced....". I really see almost no reason for a 21/22 year old to have them. My DH and I have both said if our SO demanded one, that would be a deal breaker. I agree with Alexis that it''s like having plan b. At 21 and 22 not only dont'' you have so called "life experience", you more than likely don''t have many if any real assets to "protect" from each other. If you set up trusts, you can do basically the same thing except trusts cover all outcomes so they''re less about divorce and more about protecting your children.

 

[Caribou]

My Fi and I won''t have one but neither one of us have anything substantial for it to be worth it.

However, I don''t really have a huge problem with them. I don''t think there''s anything wrong with someone wanting to protect themselves; especially if you''ve been burned. My good friend''s husband asked her to sign one before they got married. He went into the relationship with a couple million and he had been married before her and his first wife took a lot of his money. She had the same reaction, I think alot of us would have but then decided that this marriage was for life so what was the harm.

People can get so nasty when it comes to divorce. From fighting over who gets Fido to one person just being bitter and vindictive. When my parents divorced my mom was considering taking my dad Porscha because she knew he loved it. Bitter and vindictive. In the end she didn''t do it but you just never how nasty one can get.

 

[Cailet]

I can see how this topic could get heated!!

I used to be strongly against prenups - but now I don''t really think they are that bad. I asked my BF if he would want to get one (he owns a house and has way more money) and he didn''t seem too interested. I guess if it would make him more comfortable (or make his parent''s more comfortable) I wouldn''t mind working something up with a lawyer. I don''t think that it is really about having a "plan b" as it is saying: "I''m coming into this marriage for YOU and not your stuff".

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 2/17/2006 8:17:31 AM
Author: Caribou
People can get so nasty when it comes to divorce. From fighting over who gets Fido to one person just being bitter and vindictive. When my parents divorced my mom was considering taking my dad Porscha because she knew he loved it. Bitter and vindictive. In the end she didn''t do it but you just never how nasty one can get.

I agree 100%. They say you marry one person but divorce another. I believe that what is earned DURING the union is joint property & should be shared ... personal wealth or personal DEBT they bring into the union is up for negotiation. In our case it''s my ASSETS vs his DEBT. We both would like to protect my assests from his debt WHILE WE''RE IN THE UNION. He was married before and his ex 1) refused to pay their joint tax debt and 2) asked for & received ALIMONY (no kids - just for her, after just three years!). Someone who always talked badly about women who seek alimony -- did just that herself when faced with the option. And SHE left HIM btw!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/16/2006 11:17:08 PM
Author: ~*Alexis*~
I did do a search, I came up empty.

It seems that huge thread has been deleted.

 

[LuvThatBling]

I think it depends on your situation. DH & I married young, so all of our wealth was accumulated during the marriage. So a prenup for $0 wouldn''t help anyone LOL. I do think a prenup is advisable in the following scenarios:

1. Couple gets married later in life and one or both bring considerable assets into the marriage.

2. One or both partners has children. Honestly, if my DH & I were to have children, he died & I remarried, I would INSIST on a prenup with second husband. It would totally be a deal breaker. I feel very strongly that the assets DH & I worked for to provide stability & comfort to our offspring, should benefit the children. It''s not a matter of trust. If the natural parent died first with the prenup in place, it''d be better for everyone IMO. Stepparent won''t have to squabble with the children over $$. Death is very, very hard & emotional for people. Combine that with money, and you have a potential explosion in the works. I think it''s much easier for everyone if the assets are taken care of beforehand.

I do understand that prenups are highly emotional topics for some people. I can understand some of the sentiments expressed, that it gives you the feeling that you aren''t 100% committed. But I see it this way: we all want marriage to be forever, and hopefully it will be, but there are no guarantees. DH & I are some of the happiest married people I know but if we married later in life, I wouldn''t have objected to a prenup. If I were to remarry someone wealthy, I would sign a prenup without a second thought. Honestly, I''d probably broach the subject myself to put the person at ease.

 

[Evie75]

Hmmmm... Touchy topic.. But I wouldnt sign a prenup.. people take marriage too lightly now-a-days, they get married and say. .eh if it doesnt work ill just get divorced..everyone is getting divorced... dont get married then! and Im sorry if you're a mature adult and been with someone for a long time you should know if you want to spend the rest of your life with them... ... but i know unfortunately not every marriage works.. sad but true.....i mean the people who just dont care and get married just to do it, like these little paris hiltons.. as for prenups not for me, i mean if you have millions its something to consider, and in certain situations (kids) it could be a good idea.

 

[anchor31]

My SO and I won''t have a prenup because we are young and have no assets to protect. The only things I own are a few pots and pans, a kitchen knife set and two cats; he has a car and a dog. His car is worth something, but I wouldn''t want it anyway...

 

[Caribou]

Date: 2/17/2006 9:12:04 AM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 2/17/2006 8:17:31 AM
Author: Caribou
People can get so nasty when it comes to divorce. From fighting over who gets Fido to one person just being bitter and vindictive. When my parents divorced my mom was considering taking my dad Porscha because she knew he loved it. Bitter and vindictive. In the end she didn''t do it but you just never how nasty one can get.

I agree 100%. They say you marry one person but divorce another. I believe that what is earned DURING the union is joint property & should be shared ... personal wealth or personal DEBT they bring into the union is up for negotiation. In our case it''s my ASSETS vs his DEBT. We both would like to protect my assests from his debt WHILE WE''RE IN THE UNION. He was married before and his ex 1) refused to pay their joint tax debt and 2) asked for & received ALIMONY (no kids - just for her, after just three years!). Someone who always talked badly about women who seek alimony -- did just that herself when faced with the option. And SHE left HIM btw!

Ugh! Don''t get me started on alimony!

 

[akw94]

I am not a believer in pre-nups. We''ve talked about this and both agree that it''s not what we want, however, we did have the discussion about separate bank accounts. I found that idea interesting and am opposed to that as well. He had separate accounts in his previous marriage. I don''t like either idea b/c *for me*, marriage is about complete trust. I want to share everything w/the person I marry. If I am worried about how either of us will react over money in the marriage, we should talk before and sort it out. Not have separate accounts just in case we disagree or have a concern. I wouldn''t want to be w/someone who didn''t trust us to handle things together. As long as we''ve talked about it and have certain guidelines set up, I see no problems. And if there are problems, we handle them as they come. As far as the prenup, I also see it as setting up for failure. I am going to put all I have into the marriage, not what may happen down the road. Personally, I don''t believe in divorce. Don''t get me wrong, if there''s abuse or for whatever reason it just doesn''t work, I understand divorce exists and certainly judge no one for getting it. But I also think many people get married too soon, before really knowing each other or w/o being completely willing to work through the problems...not everyone of course, but some people. I''m not totally naive, I know that divorce is possible, but I have trust that if that were to happen, the person that I''m marrying is one I could trust at that point as well. I also see how he handled his previous divorce so i''m not worried. Not to mention that I''m the one bringing debt into our relationship. If anyone would want one, it''d be him.
Addressing the point about having a prenup for kids, I don''t really see that as a solution. As someone said, you can create a trust for your child or set out certain conditions in your will. My greatest concern is what happens after death not marriage.
So, that being said, i''d be hurt if he insisted on a prenup. To me, it would feel like he''s planning for our marriage to end. I know that''s not necessarily the rational approach but it''s how I would *feel*. I don''t know if it''s something I would say i''d never do though. It depends on my relationship, I suppose. I would wonder, is the prenup an indicator of other issues or is it just a protection of assets? Is there some other means of accomplishing the same protections?

 

[~*Alexis*~]

Well his parents are not exactly poor.. his mom is bank manager for the largest chain in our area. He has 5 cars, a boat, a jet ski, a 60 inch TV in the living room. I grew up with very little and I have not much, so I could see his point, but I just feel as though "hey of it doesn''t work well at least i''m protected." its very frustrating! grrr!

 

[WTNLVR]

I had my fiance sign a prenup because right before we got married, my father passed away and I inherited some money. He had nothing. We even did an antenup about 8 yrs ago to update it. Our assets are so different it just makes sense to protect yourself in case something goes wrong. You never know what will happen. It wasn''t a case of having bases covered because I was unsure of him. Just protecting an inheritance. By the way, we''ve been married 16 yrs. He had no problem whatsoever signing it. I''d be leary of someone who wouldn''t sign one if the assets were very scewed.

 

[decodelighted]

Alexis,
You can ask your lawyer to write up the pre-nup however YOU want too you know. If you''re afraid of him leaving you with a bunch of kids & speeding off in his jet ski with all the dough ... write in a "support clause". It doesn''t just protect him - it can protect you too. Better to know NOW if he thinks "what''s his is his" & "what''s yours is squat!" Sounds a little like he''s spoiled ... and selfishness doesn''t go away with or without a pre-nup. Are you going to do any pre-wedding counseling at a chuch or anything -- that could also help get all your cards on the table.

 

[Cailet]

Date: 2/17/2006 9:12:04 AM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 2/17/2006 8:17:31 AM
Author: Caribou
People can get so nasty when it comes to divorce. From fighting over who gets Fido to one person just being bitter and vindictive. When my parents divorced my mom was considering taking my dad Porscha because she knew he loved it. Bitter and vindictive. In the end she didn''t do it but you just never how nasty one can get.

I agree 100%. They say you marry one person but divorce another. I believe that what is earned DURING the union is joint property & should be shared ... personal wealth or personal DEBT they bring into the union is up for negotiation. In our case it''s my ASSETS vs his DEBT. We both would like to protect my assests from his debt WHILE WE''RE IN THE UNION. He was married before and his ex 1) refused to pay their joint tax debt and 2) asked for & received ALIMONY (no kids - just for her, after just three years!). Someone who always talked badly about women who seek alimony -- did just that herself when faced with the option. And SHE left HIM btw!

OMG - I know this guy who just got divorced. Ex-wife was just like your guy''s ex!! MY friend ended up being able to keep his house and car (both of which he had owned since before they were even DATING!!) but only if he agreed to pay his ex-wife''s debt - ALL of it! That included credit cards, school loans and health bills. PLUS -- she was divorcing him because she was cheating on him and wanted to move in with her new boyfriend!! How crazy is that??

 

[Caribou]

Date: 2/17/2006 10:26:37 AM
Author: amy94
I am not a believer in pre-nups. We''ve talked about this and both agree that it''s not what we want, however, we did have the discussion about separate bank accounts. I found that idea interesting and am opposed to that as well. He had separate accounts in his previous marriage. I don''t like either idea b/c *for me*, marriage is about complete trust. I want to share everything w/the person I marry. If I am worried about how either of us will react over money in the marriage, we should talk before and sort it out. Not have separate accounts just in case we disagree or have a concern. I wouldn''t want to be w/someone who didn''t trust us to handle things together.

My friend and his wife (EX, now) had seperate accounts. They had a joint account they put money in for trips and family related expenses. Then they had their own accoutns that they put money in, if say he wanted a jet ski and he had the money for it, he''d buy it. If she wanted a $400 purse and she had the money for it, than she''d buy it. They both worked and earned pretty much the same. I think that this worked for them, I mean, would she have been okay with him spending $3000 on a jetski if they had a joint savings account? I doubt it. Money is the biggest problem in marriages, I think regardless of how much you trust your spouse you are going to end up fighting or some money related matter.

 

[Caribou]

Date: 2/17/2006 10:28:14 AM
Author: ~*Alexis*~
Well his parents are not exactly poor.. his mom is bank manager for the largest chain in our area. He has 5 cars, a boat, a jet ski, a 60 inch TV in the living room. I grew up with very little and I have not much, so I could see his point, but I just feel as though ''hey of it doesn''t work well at least i''m protected.'' its very frustrating! grrr!

Alexis, I agree with Deco...just because he asks you to sign one does not mean that he has total control over what it says.

I know that it''s frustrating but try not to look at it as if he''s saying ''if this marriage doesn''t work out than I''m protected''. A pre-nup can protect you as much as it protects him. If his parent are wealthy, and the money he has is from trust funds and what not, they may be pressuring him to do this.

I would be frustrated too but I think I would ultimately come to the same conculsion as my friend. My marriage to my fiance will be ''till death to us part''.....this little piece of paper (the prenup) isn''t going to change that.

 

[XChick03]

I kind of agree that it seems like the person isn''t 100% confident in the marriage, but there are just some people who prefer to play it safe. We''re not having prenups, haven''t even discussed it. Probably because neither of us have a lot of money or assets right now. Of course, we both have grandparents that have money to spare and will both be getting nice inherritances and hopefully I''ll be bringing in lots of money as an attorney in a few years, but I still don''t see the need for it. In the event something did happen with our marriage, I can''t see either of us trying to get money from the other.

As far as bank accounts, we''ve already talked about that and decided we''d have a joint account to pay bills and for savings and seperate accounts for personal spending.

 

[Evie75]

The seperate account for personal spending i can swing!!! I think thats very good idea... if you wanna buy clothes or shoes... stuff like that..... and there will be no questions later about it LOL

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/17/2006 10:34:16 AM
Author: WTNLVR
I had my fiance sign a prenup because right before we got married, my father passed away and I inherited some money. He had nothing. We even did an antenup about 8 yrs ago to update it. Our assets are so different it just makes sense to protect yourself in case something goes wrong. You never know what will happen. It wasn''t a case of having bases covered because I was unsure of him. Just protecting an inheritance. By the way, we''ve been married 16 yrs. He had no problem whatsoever signing it. I''d be leary of someone who wouldn''t sign one if the assets were very scewed.

good for you.that''s the way it should be.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/17/2006 10:44:17 AM
Author: Caribou

Date: 2/17/2006 10:26:37 AM
Author: amy94
I am not a believer in pre-nups. We''ve talked about this and both agree that it''s not what we want, however, we did have the discussion about separate bank accounts. I found that idea interesting and am opposed to that as well. He had separate accounts in his previous marriage. I don''t like either idea b/c *for me*, marriage is about complete trust. I want to share everything w/the person I marry. If I am worried about how either of us will react over money in the marriage, we should talk before and sort it out. Not have separate accounts just in case we disagree or have a concern. I wouldn''t want to be w/someone who didn''t trust us to handle things together.

My friend and his wife (EX, now) had seperate accounts. They had a joint account they put money in for trips and family related expenses. Then they had their own accoutns that they put money in, if say he wanted a jet ski and he had the money for it, he''d buy it. If she wanted a $400 purse and she had the money for it, than she''d buy it. They both worked and earned pretty much the same. I think that this worked for them, I mean, would she have been okay with him spending $3000 on a jetski if they had a joint savings account? I doubt it. Money is the biggest problem in marriages, I think regardless of how much you trust your spouse you are going to end up fighting or some money related matter.

yep....that''s why wife and i never talk about money.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/17/2006 12:06:12 PM
Author: Caribou

Date: 2/17/2006 10:28:14 AM
Author: ~*Alexis*~
Well his parents are not exactly poor.. his mom is bank manager for the largest chain in our area. He has 5 cars, a boat, a jet ski, a 60 inch TV in the living room. I grew up with very little and I have not much, so I could see his point, but I just feel as though ''hey of it doesn''t work well at least i''m protected.'' its very frustrating! grrr!

Alexis, I agree with Deco...just because he asks you to sign one does not mean that he has total control over what it says.

I know that it''s frustrating but try not to look at it as if he''s saying ''if this marriage doesn''t work out than I''m protected''. A pre-nup can protect you as much as it protects him. If his parent are wealthy, and the money he has is from trust funds and what not, they may be pressuring him to do this.

I would be frustrated too but I think I would ultimately come to the same conculsion as my friend. My marriage to my fiance will be ''till death to us part''.....this little piece of paper (the prenup) isn''t going to change that.

for most couple is "till DEBT to us part"