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President McCain

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thanks NEL!!!
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There you are HOH4J!

You can run but you can''t hide!!!!!!!!!!

Come back... please?

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Hi HOH4J!

I didn''t mean to make you think you had to run in this thread and hide. I should have worded it more carefully! A lot of us prefer to go back and forth, while others prefer to stay in once place. Either way, you learn a lot! Don''t be afraid of the Obama thread, I wasn''t trying to scare you!
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Date: 6/12/2008 11:39:43 AM
Author: HeadOverHeels4James
I didn''t see a place where it said ''pro-obama'' all it said was ''would obama make a good president'' I think he would not! I made a comment (which I guess was out of context without me being able to back myself up) but geees... bite my head off! Gees, I try to get involved in politics and people freak out when someone says something! BAH This is exactly why I haven''t been involved in the past!
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I don''t think it was so much that you expressed that you feel Obama wouldn''t be a good president...that''s a perfectly valid sentiment. I may disagree, but I wouldn''t try to "hunt you down" over thinking that. Coming in and making a statement like "I think Obama is the antichrist", however, is a bit different. It''s not so much "not being able to back yourself up" as it is using an extraordinarily loaded term. Perhaps it was an attempt at levity? Nonetheless, I think you would have gotten a more civil response if you had simply stated that you got a weird vibe from him. In any case, I hardly think people "freaked out". A couple of people asked for clarification on what about him gave you the "heebie jeebies". I''d still like to hear the answer to that. Understanding those who feel differently from you is extraordinarily important, in my book. Whether you''d like to present the answer here or come back to the other thread, I''d be curious to hear why exactly he''s evil incarnate.
 
Ditto what LP said.
 
Date: 6/12/2008 9:50:24 AM
Author: NewEnglandLady
I know this is something that hasn''t been discussed on this thread..and maybe it should be its own thread, but I was thinking about running mates this morning and was curious about everybody''s opinion on who McCain''s running mate should be.

I keep hearing that if he chooses another old white guy, he won''t have a chance. While I''m not sure about that (I''m sure everybody would agree that the running mate''s views are most important), I can understand why political pundits would say that.

Some names I''ve heard thrown around for a long time are:

Lieberman--likeable, but argued that McCain needs somebody more conservative since he''s already considered pretty liberal.
Charlie Crist--gov. of Florida who isn''t as popular in Florida as Jeb Bush, but I think not having a Bush on the ballot would be a good thing.
Mel Martinez--sen. in Florida...so another pivotal FL choice--the idea is that he would appeal to hispanics, but I don''t think McCain is losing a lot of votes there.
Mark Sanford--gov. of SC who''s notoriously cheap (I like that!) and lugged 2 live pigs in to congress to make a point about porkbelly spending. People love him or hate him, but I have to admit that I like his style. I don''t know if somebody who polarizes people is a great running mate...
Tom Pawlenty--The fact that he would deliver MN is key and he''s kind of a safe bet.

I think the outside chances (and maybe Lieberman should be in here) are
Colin Powell--same age as Lieberman, which is a drawback, but Powell and McCain don''t have a close relationship
Steve King (of Iowa)--I think his and McCain''s border policies are too different
Huckabee--I think it would be great and while McCain might be open to it, I don''t think Huckabee would be
Kay B. Hutchison (TX) or Jodi Rell (CT)--I think these may have been options if Clinton won the election, but since he''s not running against a woman I think there are better options.

So as I was listening to the radio this morning, the option of Condoleezza Rice popped up and I thought it was really interesting since she would appeal to conservative Republicans and she''s so well known. Do you think that would be an option?

I''m sure I''m leaving a bunch of options out, I was just curious about people''s opinions on the running mate options.
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I have heard that it is unlikely to be Condoleeza Rice due to her ties to the Bush administration. I hate that, because from what I know of her, I think she is brilliant and has integrity and would be the perfect first woman VP.

I don''t know much about most on that list, but Huckabee might be a good choice since he is more conservative and younger. He also already has some national name recognition.
 
Date: 6/12/2008 12:53:35 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 6/12/2008 9:50:24 AM
Author: NewEnglandLady
I know this is something that hasn''t been discussed on this thread..and maybe it should be its own thread, but I was thinking about running mates this morning and was curious about everybody''s opinion on who McCain''s running mate should be.

I keep hearing that if he chooses another old white guy, he won''t have a chance. While I''m not sure about that (I''m sure everybody would agree that the running mate''s views are most important), I can understand why political pundits would say that.

Some names I''ve heard thrown around for a long time are:

Lieberman--likeable, but argued that McCain needs somebody more conservative since he''s already considered pretty liberal.
Charlie Crist--gov. of Florida who isn''t as popular in Florida as Jeb Bush, but I think not having a Bush on the ballot would be a good thing.
Mel Martinez--sen. in Florida...so another pivotal FL choice--the idea is that he would appeal to hispanics, but I don''t think McCain is losing a lot of votes there.
Mark Sanford--gov. of SC who''s notoriously cheap (I like that!) and lugged 2 live pigs in to congress to make a point about porkbelly spending. People love him or hate him, but I have to admit that I like his style. I don''t know if somebody who polarizes people is a great running mate...
Tom Pawlenty--The fact that he would deliver MN is key and he''s kind of a safe bet.

I think the outside chances (and maybe Lieberman should be in here) are
Colin Powell--same age as Lieberman, which is a drawback, but Powell and McCain don''t have a close relationship
Steve King (of Iowa)--I think his and McCain''s border policies are too different
Huckabee--I think it would be great and while McCain might be open to it, I don''t think Huckabee would be
Kay B. Hutchison (TX) or Jodi Rell (CT)--I think these may have been options if Clinton won the election, but since he''s not running against a woman I think there are better options.

So as I was listening to the radio this morning, the option of Condoleezza Rice popped up and I thought it was really interesting since she would appeal to conservative Republicans and she''s so well known. Do you think that would be an option?

I''m sure I''m leaving a bunch of options out, I was just curious about people''s opinions on the running mate options.
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I have heard that it is unlikely to be Condoleeza Rice due to her ties to the Bush administration. I hate that, because from what I know of her, I think she is brilliant and has integrity and would be the perfect first woman VP.

I don''t know much about most on that list, but Huckabee might be a good choice since he is more conservative and younger. He also already has some national name recognition.
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I think her ties to the Bush administration might be appealing to the GOP in a way, only because she was a rare highlight in an upopular administration, you know? Kind of like "Look, the last 8 years weren''t a total loss, we got Condee!" Maybe I''m just being silly, but I can kind of see how she might be the one positive link between the last 8 years and this election. I really admire her, I think she would be a great candidate: I think she''s brilliant, she''s young, she has extensive white house experience...I don''t know, I hope it''s a consideration.
 
HaHaHa - can you imagine?

I''m not voting for no emotional, tea party throwing feminist and I''m for sure not voting for a racist Muslim who doesn''t hold his hand over his heart during the National Anthem.

So McCain is elected president and dies on his first day in office.

Now, for the next four years, our Commander-in-Chief is a BLACK FEMALE.

Oh, the irony.
 
Date: 6/12/2008 1:29:10 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady

Date: 6/12/2008 12:53:35 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006


I have heard that it is unlikely to be Condoleeza Rice due to her ties to the Bush administration. I hate that, because from what I know of her, I think she is brilliant and has integrity and would be the perfect first woman VP.

I don''t know much about most on that list, but Huckabee might be a good choice since he is more conservative and younger. He also already has some national name recognition.
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I think her ties to the Bush administration might be appealing to the GOP in a way, only because she was a rare highlight in an upopular administration, you know? Kind of like ''Look, the last 8 years weren''t a total loss, we got Condee!'' Maybe I''m just being silly, but I can kind of see how she might be the one positive link between the last 8 years and this election. I really admire her, I think she would be a great candidate: I think she''s brilliant, she''s young, she has extensive white house experience...I don''t know, I hope it''s a consideration.
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Good points, NEL! I think that might really cause some excitement from some of us who aren''t totally in love with McCain. It would be a brilliant move if they did it.
 
Date: 6/12/2008 1:42:56 PM
Author: Starset Princess
HaHaHa - can you imagine?

I''m not voting for no emotional, tea party throwing feminist and I''m for sure not voting for a racist Muslim who doesn''t hold his hand over his heart during the National Anthem.

So McCain is elected president and dies on his first day in office.

Now, for the next four years, our Commander-in-Chief is a BLACK FEMALE.

Oh, the irony.
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LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Date: 6/12/2008 1:42:56 PM
Author: Starset Princess
HaHaHa - can you imagine?

I''m not voting for no emotional, tea party throwing feminist and I''m for sure not voting for a racist Muslim who doesn''t hold his hand over his heart during the National Anthem.

So McCain is elected president and dies on his first day in office.

Now, for the next four years, our Commander-in-Chief is a BLACK FEMALE.

Oh, the irony.
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That may be humorous to some, however you are now characterizing people who don''t like Hillary and Obama as racist??? I think that is why some of us think it is hard to even have a conservative or republican thread going.
 
My choices would be Condi, Powell, or Huckabee.
But I can pretty much guarantee that if it were Condi, Powell, or even Martinez the media would look less at their accomplishments and more at McCain''s camp and how he is trying to "even the playing field" in terms of race. They would think it''s a strategy to win over the minority votes.
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With that being said, I look at Condi and I see grace, class, brilliance, and someone who would (and has) work her butt off for our country....not just a "black woman".

BTW: Has anyone mentioned how on Monday Kucinich went before congress and asked for Bush to be impeached?
Not the hugest fan of Bush, but is this guy serious? TOTAL strategy. Now, if McCain defends Bush, he''s the enemy. If he supports Kucinich, his party goes against him. If he stays silent, he''s "dodging the issue". Has there been an update on this?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2029218/posts
 
Date: 6/12/2008 5:41:19 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Date: 6/12/2008 1:42:56 PM
Author: Starset Princess
HaHaHa - can you imagine?

I'm not voting for no emotional, tea party throwing feminist and I'm for sure not voting for a racist Muslim who doesn't hold his hand over his heart during the National Anthem.

So McCain is elected president and dies on his first day in office.

Now, for the next four years, our Commander-in-Chief is a BLACK FEMALE.

Oh, the irony.
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That may be humorous to some, however you are now characterizing people who don't like Hillary and Obama as racist??? I think that is why some of us think it is hard to even have a conservative or republican thread going.
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Stepping in quickly to clarify what Starset said- she was implying that people think Obama is a racist Muslim. Not that Republicans are racist. Just that people may perceive him to be.

Also there were 9 out of 10 Hillary supporters (I can't remember which state it was) that said in exit polls that race had *something* to do with voting for her. People wanted her to stand up and say, "If you're voting for me with any reasoning pertaining to race, I do not want your vote." But she didn't.

Frankly, IMHO, it's all a big mess.

And good tidings to all of you!! Jumping back out again!!!

ETA: Why isn't Romney on the list of potential VPs? I got the feeling from the media that he's the front runner for the spot?
 
Date: 6/12/2008 6:21:20 PM
Author: luckystar112
My choices would be Condi, Powell, or Huckabee.
But I can pretty much guarantee that if it were Condi, Powell, or even Martinez the media would look less at their accomplishments and more at McCain''s camp and how he is trying to ''even the playing field'' in terms of race. They would think it''s a strategy to win over the minority votes.
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With that being said, I look at Condi and I see grace, class, brilliance, and someone who would (and has) work her butt off for our country....not just a ''black woman''.

BTW: Has anyone mentioned how on Monday Kucinich went before congress and asked for Bush to be impeached?
Not the hugest fan of Bush, but is this guy serious? TOTAL strategy. Now, if McCain defends Bush, he''s the enemy. If he supports Kucinich, his party goes against him. If he stays silent, he''s ''dodging the issue''. Has there been an update on this?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2029218/posts
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I very much agree about CR. I think Colin Powell is at least 70, and that will not counteract the age concern with McCain. So I don''t think he will be a strong contender. I like Huckabee, but he just brings younger age and more conservative to the ticket. I think they need more than that to win.
 
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Date: 6/12/2008 6:52:50 PM
Author: FrekeChild



Date: 6/12/2008 5:41:19 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006



Date: 6/12/2008 1:42:56 PM
Author: Starset Princess
HaHaHa - can you imagine?

I'm not voting for no emotional, tea party throwing feminist and I'm for sure not voting for a racist Muslim who doesn't hold his hand over his heart during the National Anthem.

So McCain is elected president and dies on his first day in office.

Now, for the next four years, our Commander-in-Chief is a BLACK FEMALE.

Oh, the irony.
Click to expand...
That may be humorous to some, however you are now characterizing people who don't like Hillary and Obama as racist??? I think that is why some of us think it is hard to even have a conservative or republican thread going.
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Stepping in quickly to clarify what Starset said- she was implying that people think Obama is a racist Muslim. Not that Republicans are racist. Just that people may perceive him to be.

Also there were 9 out of 10 Hillary supporters (I can't remember which state it was) that said in exit polls that race had *something* to do with voting for her. People wanted her to stand up and say, 'If you're voting for me with any reasoning pertaining to race, I do not want your vote.' But she didn't.

Frankly, IMHO, it's all a big mess.

And good tidings to all of you!! Jumping back out again!!!

ETA: Why isn't Romney on the list of potential VPs? I got the feeling from the media that he's the front runner for the spot?
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Yes Freke, she did imply that people think Obama is a racist. But then her punchline suggested that we would have a problem with a black woman being president, which therefore implies that WE are racist (and perhaps sexist)? It also implies that our problems with Obama and Hillary are just excuses, with race and sex being the real problem.

Hopefully Starset can shed some light on the subject...

ETA: I totally get that it was a joke. Just wanted to throw that out there.
 
I have heard that Romney is probably a front-runner. I don''t think he would help the ticket enough, personally.
 
Actually it isn''t those who agree with us who are our greatest teachers. The people who disagree with us are our greatest teachers because it indicates the limits of our capacity for forgiveness.

That being said...every time I see Condolezza Rice, I just want to
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. I would like to think that her intentions are good, but she walked a party line. In my opinion she has acted like a puppet. I admire those who challenge authority, make a person think, make a person have to engage their imagination in order to develop solutions to problems. I never saw her do this within the State Department. I suspect she knew that if she did, she probably wouldn''t be able to keep her job, but I have to say that I don''t have a lot of admiration for people who don''t exercise independent thought and action in order to keep a job. In politics that behavior is often rewarded.

I also suspect, but have no proof, that if she were a black democrat vs. a black republican, she would be vilified by the neo-cons. Which fuels my theory that our collective need to belong to a "gang" with a lable separates us and will always undermine our attempts to unify. Again, my opinion... but this is the most dangerous threat to America as a nation, our vulnerability due to our lack of unity. How come nobody believed that Condoleeza Rice was a Muslim in disguise?

(sitting back and waiting for the fireworks to begin
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)
 
It was supposed to be funny.
I do not think Republicans are racist or sexist.
I believe there are PEOPLE in this country who are racist and/or sexist.

My Aunt and Uncle vote for McCain because he is a white male. Period. They have no clue how the candidates stand on issues. It wouldn't matter if they did read both websites. And if you think there aren't MORE out there who are voting for McCain because he's a white male then the joke isn't funny.
 
And furthermore, it stands the same for Democrats who won''t vote for their own party, to the issues that matter to them, for those same ''isms.
 
Date: 6/13/2008 7:29:09 AM
Author: Starset Princess
It was supposed to be funny.
I do not think Republicans are racist or sexist.
I believe there are PEOPLE in this country who are racist and/or sexist.

My Aunt and Uncle vote for McCain because he is a white male. Period. They have no clue how the candidates stand on issues. It wouldn''t matter if they did read both websites. And if you think there aren''t MORE out there who are voting for McCain because he''s a white male then the joke isn''t funny.
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And you can say the exact same thing about SOME who will vote for Obama and race.
 
Date: 6/13/2008 2:59:16 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 6/13/2008 7:29:09 AM
Author: Starset Princess
It was supposed to be funny.
I do not think Republicans are racist or sexist.
I believe there are PEOPLE in this country who are racist and/or sexist.

My Aunt and Uncle vote for McCain because he is a white male. Period. They have no clue how the candidates stand on issues. It wouldn''t matter if they did read both websites. And if you think there aren''t MORE out there who are voting for McCain because he''s a white male then the joke isn''t funny.
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And you can say the exact same thing about SOME who will vote for Obama and race.
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I actually did say that on the other thread (about Obama), and I offended someone.
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I don''t think Starset ever implied that anyone here was racist or sexist, but it is VERY hard to ignore that racism and sexism played a part this election season. Yes, I think it is quite ironic that people that voted AGAINST someone due to race or sex could end up with a double wammy. I''m not sure why that''s offensive. It has NOTHING to do with party affiliation either, so I''m not sure why people believe that to be the case.

As far as me being offended regarding the blacks voting for Obama because he''s black...well when you consider the fact that black people tend to overwhelmingly vote Democrat, I felt it wasn''t even worth metioning. John Kerry got 88% of the black vote, but no one will claim it''s because of his race. To make that statement in regard to Obama, simply because he is black (when he only got a few percent more of the black vote), is just a nice way of dismissing his accomplishments. Kinda like how Bill Clinton did in South Carolina.

Now, hopefully no one will get pissy about my post but I now feel the need to point out the double standard we have here. This thread is supposed to be some sort of safe haven for convervatives/Repbulicans while the Obama thread is a free for all. Why is that? I haven''t been on PS long enough, but are there really so few conserv/Repubs on this forum that they need to have a shelter from the Dems/Indies/whatever elses?
 
Date: 6/13/2008 4:51:56 PM
Author: MoonWater
I don''t think Starset ever implied that anyone here was racist or sexist, but it is VERY hard to ignore that racism and sexism played a part this election season. Yes, I think it is quite ironic that people that voted AGAINST someone due to race or sex could end up with a double wammy. I''m not sure why that''s offensive. It has NOTHING to do with party affiliation either, so I''m not sure why people believe that to be the case.

As far as me being offended regarding the blacks voting for Obama because he''s black...well when you consider the fact that black people tend to overwhelmingly vote Democrat, I felt it wasn''t even worth metioning. John Kerry got 88% of the black vote, but no one will claim it''s because of his race. To make that statement in regard to Obama, simply because he is black (when he only got a few percent more of the black vote), is just a nice way of dismissing his accomplishments. Kinda like how Bill Clinton did in South Carolina.

Now, hopefully no one will get pissy about my post but I now feel the need to point out the double standard we have here. This thread is supposed to be some sort of safe haven for convervatives/Repbulicans while the Obama thread is a free for all. Why is that? I haven''t been on PS long enough, but are there really so few conserv/Repubs on this forum that they need to have a shelter from the Dems/Indies/whatever elses?
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Moon,
I honestly don''t know how that happened. Obviously, some of us wanted a thread where we could discuss our likes about McCain and dislikes about Obama without feeling harped on (because I personally feel that "I just don''t like him" is not a reasonable excuse over there) or harping on others. The whole "character" issue came into play and Freke said she was leaving (but I think she''s been back since...I''m relying solely on memory here). And then in the other thread, I saw that you had also addressed something in that thread that had originally been posted in this thread. And now you''re back.
So honestly....no idea!!! No one told anyone to leave...some just decided to quit posting here, meanwhile...some of us went on with our business and continued to post in both threads. Everyone is welcome everywhere, the way I see it.

As for the black vote....
Yes, 80% of black people plan to vote democrat no matter who the candidate is...and Obama has gained a small percentage more of that vote. What percentage of white people do you think will vote for McCain solely because he''s white? I''d say it''s about even, unless you take into account the that this is the furthest a black candidate has ever come in the election...and that alone could sway many black voters. Heck...I''d be swayed! Well, wait...I wasn''t swayed by Hillary.
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But again, I''m going to assume it''s even. I don''t think there is anything wrong with that. People vote for who they relate to the most.

Here''s the thing...if race weren''t an issue and culture mattered to no one, there wouldn''t be cultural pockets in cities (China town..etc).
 
Starset, I didn''t get it at first, but once Freke explained, I re-read it. I thought it was funny.
 
I can only hope that we are at a time in our history when no candidate need worry about the color of their skin or their sex.

That ''joke'' was on topic and did not attack anyone.
 
Date: 6/24/2008 5:48:52 PM
Author: tradergirl
You guys are shoveling **** against the tide

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MzQ4YTY4YjQyMzRjYjA5MGZlNDBiZTkwYmEyODg5NTc=
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You mean we are disagreeing with a conservative publication? The national review is hardly a paragon of non-partisan journalism. Granted, netiher is the Huffington Post, but I don't think it's fair to call a conservative website indicative of the "tide" of thought in this country. It's as biased as anything else.

ETA: I don't have time to go into all the issues I have with that article right now, but I just have to say that I can't believe people are bashing Obama for upholding habeas corpus! I'd rather our government not have the ability to lock people up indefinitely with no right to due process!
 
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