PS Mommy Thread-Newborn to 12 months!

[vizsla]

i would like your thoughts on this:

i''ve been thinking a lot about whether charlie truly needs to eat all night (12am & 3am feedings) OR like some have suggested, if he *knows* he can eat all day/all night he does...

i will preface by saying i''m opposed to CIO (i may eat my words, but that is my stance on 3.17.10

if i mesh a little of HSHHC, BW and No Cry solution what IF:
when charlie wakes at either 12am or 3am - i go ahead and feed him, but limit the amount. for 2 days offer 3 oz, then offer 2 oz, then only 1 oz. followed by just soothing?

is this crazy? or is it crazy enough to work??

 

[NovemberBride]

Date: 3/17/2010 4:10:43 PM
Author: vizsla
i would like your thoughts on this:


i''ve been thinking a lot about whether charlie truly needs to eat all night (12am & 3am feedings) OR like some have suggested, if he *knows* he can eat all day/all night he does...


i will preface by saying i''m opposed to CIO (i may eat my words, but that is my stance on 3.17.10


if i mesh a little of HSHHC, BW and No Cry solution what IF:

when charlie wakes at either 12am or 3am - i go ahead and feed him, but limit the amount. for 2 days offer 3 oz, then offer 2 oz, then only 1 oz. followed by just soothing?


is this crazy? or is it crazy enough to work??

Viz,
My answer would depend on how Charlie acts when he wakes up. For example, Olivia rarely wakes at night, but when she does, I put her on the boob, she eats hungrily for 15-20 minutes and then I put her back in bed and she goes right to sleep. To me, this clearly means that she is hungry, so I would never try to just soothe her back to sleep without eating or to reduce the amount she is fed. At this age I believe if they are hungry they need to eat, my need for sleep be damned. I don''t really believe that they are crafty enough to eat just because they know they can, I think it''s still more primitive than that - they eat because they are hungry.

Is Charlie acting hungry when he wakes and does he go back to sleep after he eats? If so, I''d take that as a sign he''s waking to eat and you should probably continue to feed him. If he''s just waking up and not giving you hunger cues and you are feeding him for something to do/attempt to calm him and feeding him doesn''t seem to soothe him, then maybe try your approach.

 

[Mara]

viz i have been wondering the same thing re: J... eventually we'll have to 'wean' him from needing that 2nd feeding once he is able to sleep longer on a full belly. so i was thinking the same thing, do we start feeding him less and soothing him back to sleep til he finally realizes he doesn't need to wake up to eat? we can give him 4oz, 5oz, 6oz and usually it only gives him 3-5 hours of sleep. so does he really need 6oz or is he just USED to geting it...can we really give him 4oz and have him be the same?

the other thing i was thinking re: your post earlier today about how you tried to soothe him and he would only '1/2 sleep' it seemed til you fed him at 4:30. here's my take on it, obviously knowing i havent gone through it yet but just thinking about it. first off, i would say don't expect success the first night. every mom i have every talked to said do something over and over til it clicks with the kid. so you were able to soothe C from 2:30-4:30am with no food, then you had to feed him. i wouldn't view that as a failure. for 2 hours he was fine without eating and then maybe he really was finally hungry at 4:30. he prob woke up every 30 min or whatever because his body might be saying 'hey isn't it TIME for that feeding?'...i know not everyone agrees but i think that babies can pick up a 'routine' pretty easily. it has nothing to do with manipulation but rather just their brains/bodies getting used to something and expecting it. it's like biology. don't expect to break weeks or longer of a habit in a few hours. but 2 hours with no feeding and him half sleeping is better than nothing right?? so why not keep trying that and seeing how it works out in another 3 or 5 or 7 days before changing it? i know it's not success right away but i think you might be onto something. and if that doesn't work entirely then try the weaning or maybe a COMBO of it...? also maybe keep an eye on his weight as well to see if you feel like it's being affected negatively, then maybe he really needs that feeding. OR maybe he will compensate by eating more during the day.

anyway we'll have to deal with something similar re: the night weaning i think in the future. so i can either decide to try soothing him first with no food (cold turkey) for that 2nd feeding or i can do the weaning then soothing. i am not sure which we'll try yet but at 6 weeks thankfully we don't have to deal with it YET!!

the thing i also try to think about is suffer now to reap the rewards later. so you might have to deal with week or 2 weeks with less sleep, more screaming, etc, but in the long run the weeks and months of positive sleep you'll be rewarded with would be worth it right? i know we'll be in the same position soon enough.

anyway just my thoughts.

my fuss is not wanting to nap AT ALL today. he isn't that fussy just does not want to sleep for longer than a 15 min stretch. and he's so tired. i've been going in and soothing and then rocking then putting down but he only sleeps 15 min then wakes himself up and gives tired little cries. WORLD IS JUST TOO EXCITING FOR SLEEP, MOM!!! then he falls asleep again. next time he wakes up i will have to overfeed him so he conks out.

the ironic thing is that because he is not sleeping hardly at all during the day the last 3 days...he is only taking like 30-45 min naps about 3x a day...he is sleeping like a rock at night. last nite he went 9:30pm to 5:30am and then from 6am to 10am.

oh and can someone tell me what 'overnight' diapers you use? J peed through his diaper & blanket for the first time last nite in his 8 hour stretch so we might have to get some overnight diapers if he plans to keep doing these long stretches (in my dreams).

and i got a crib wedge and put it in the crib today, lets see how this works.

october...thanks...i think he is so cute so that's a compliment hhee. funny thing is when he is sleeping he totally looks like greg, but then other times he looks like me. i love that he's a little chameleon and looks like us both! so fun.

steph...lol at sending A to school with a beer shirt on. it would be funny if someone knew but hopefully no one does.

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 3/17/2010 4:10:43 PM
Author: vizsla
i would like your thoughts on this:

i''ve been thinking a lot about whether charlie truly needs to eat all night (12am & 3am feedings) OR like some have suggested, if he *knows* he can eat all day/all night he does...

i will preface by saying i''m opposed to CIO (i may eat my words, but that is my stance on 3.17.10

if i mesh a little of HSHHC, BW and No Cry solution what IF:
when charlie wakes at either 12am or 3am - i go ahead and feed him, but limit the amount. for 2 days offer 3 oz, then offer 2 oz, then only 1 oz. followed by just soothing?

is this crazy? or is it crazy enough to work??

I probably don''t have any good advice because I sort of let Sophia guide everything which has its ups and downs (pros/cons).

When we weaned from the overnight feedings it was because I noticed she was eating less. She went from having a 4-5oz bottle to only drinking about 2oz. That was my sign that she was a) waking up for comfort and b) maybe needed a little more to get her passed that feeding. So I increased all her bottles by .5oz and eliminated that night feed.

I don''t think your plan is crazy at all. However, it can backfire if he is waking up because he truly is eating (so if he wakes at 12am and you give 3oz, he may end up waking up every 2 hours after for example) so just be prepared for that. But no, not crazy.

 

[vizsla]

darn you ... that's my struggle.. i don't know

here are the facts mam, and just the facts:

-he doesn't eat a lot at any one time - if we are lucky it is between 4 and 5 oz
-he weighs 13.5 lbs
-i don't think he is ever going to be a big eater, buuuut 4oz x 8 feedings = 32oz/day
-he does fall right back to sleep after eating
-he is 4.5 months old

my thought was that if he actually ATE 5oz or heck, 6oz - 6 or 7 times a day then he wouldn't 'need' to eat between 12 and 6 in the morning. and by eliminating one or both of these feedings then he would *want* to eat more during the day? i.e. 'tanking him up'
no??

at this point i would LOVE if he would eat, say, even 5oz at each feeding - that would give us at least one 5 hr stretch.

i know sleep be damned, but i'm going on like 1hr and 45 min increments... for close to 5 months.. i'm LOSING it.....

ETA: i just realized others had posted.. this was to november, but interesting take from both mara and fiery. i guess i really just am wanting ONE 4 or 5hr stretch.. i feel like such a selfish mom for wanting that sleep, but i swear i'm going to go nuts and my husband and i are never going to talk to each other again if i don't get some sleep. and not just like one night sleep, but regular sleep....

also adding.. what if we continue to do the full feed at 12 and cut back on the 3am feed only??

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 3/17/2010 4:48:42 PM
Author: NovemberBride

Date: 3/17/2010 4:10:43 PM
Author: vizsla
i would like your thoughts on this:


i''ve been thinking a lot about whether charlie truly needs to eat all night (12am & 3am feedings) OR like some have suggested, if he *knows* he can eat all day/all night he does...


i will preface by saying i''m opposed to CIO (i may eat my words, but that is my stance on 3.17.10


if i mesh a little of HSHHC, BW and No Cry solution what IF:

when charlie wakes at either 12am or 3am - i go ahead and feed him, but limit the amount. for 2 days offer 3 oz, then offer 2 oz, then only 1 oz. followed by just soothing?


is this crazy? or is it crazy enough to work??

Viz,
My answer would depend on how Charlie acts when he wakes up. For example, Olivia rarely wakes at night, but when she does, I put her on the boob, she eats hungrily for 15-20 minutes and then I put her back in bed and she goes right to sleep. To me, this clearly means that she is hungry, so I would never try to just soothe her back to sleep without eating or to reduce the amount she is fed. At this age I believe if they are hungry they need to eat, my need for sleep be damned. I don''t really believe that they are crafty enough to eat just because they know they can, I think it''s still more primitive than that - they eat because they are hungry.

Is Charlie acting hungry when he wakes and does he go back to sleep after he eats? If so, I''d take that as a sign he''s waking to eat and you should probably continue to feed him. If he''s just waking up and not giving you hunger cues and you are feeding him for something to do/attempt to calm him and feeding him doesn''t seem to soothe him, then maybe try your approach.

I would ditto NB here.

Daisy is still feeding at night, but it''s very different the last month or so than it was before. Till 8 months she definitely needed the 2-3 hourly feeds, now I''ll occasionally wake and offer her the boob and she''ll often reject it and maybe eat just once during the night.

She never wakes up to feed - just rolls towards me and roots around - so it''s not an attention thing, and she always takes a good full feed often from both sides. She''s also a good eater during the day.

If I had decided to not feed her during the night she would have just cried and got upset until I fed her, whereas she''ll be done and zonked out again in 10 minutes this way. She''s never woken up just to play, and only wakes up for comfort when she''s ill - then she likes to hang out on the boob for hours.

(Last night was a repeat of the previous few - I''ve got a sore throat and fever today, so I''m wondering if she''s got something low-grade as well.)

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 3/17/2010 5:02:24 PM
Author: vizsla
darn you ... that''s my struggle.. i don''t know

here are the facts mam, and just the facts:

-he doesn''t eat a lot at any one time - if we are lucky it is between 4 and 5 oz
-he weighs 13.5 lbs
-i don''t think he is ever going to be a big eater, buuuut 4oz x 8 feedings = 32oz/day
-he does fall right back to sleep after eating
-he is 4.5 months old

my thought was that if he actually ATE 5oz or heck, 6oz - 6 or 7 times a day then he wouldn''t ''need'' to eat between 12 and 6 in the morning. and by eliminating one or both of these feedings then he would *want* to eat more during the day? i.e. ''tanking him up''
no??

at this point i would LOVE if he would eat, say, even 5oz at each feeding - that would give us at least one 5 hr stretch.

i know sleep be damned, but i''m going on like 1hr and 45 min increments... for close to 5 months.. i''m LOSING it.....

ETA: i just realized others had posted.. this was to november, but interesting take from both mara and fiery. i guess i really just am wanting ONE 4 or 5hr stretch.. i feel like such a selfish mom for wanting that sleep, but i swear i''m going to go nuts and my husband and i are never going to talk to each other again if i don''t get some sleep. and not just like one night sleep, but regular sleep....

also adding.. what if we continue to do the full feed at 12 and cut back on the 3am feed only??

Guuurrrllll, you iz not selfish! Now THAT is crazy talk.

That sounds like a good plan of cutting out the 3am feed if he doesn''t need it. The books say that they need 24 to 30z of bm/formula per day. If he''s already getting 30oz then IMO it''s safe to at least try to eliminate the feed.

When we did the elimination, it took 2-3 days of soothing when she woke up for her to not wake up anymore. We did one elimination at a time (I just can''t remember which one first...if it was the 10pm feed first and then the 2/3am or the other way around). We''ve never looked back. She''ll have moments where she wakes up randomly overnight but I haven''t fed her overnight since 6 months.

 

[vizsla]

lol..
i swear my husband and i go round and round every single night on what we could be doing better. at least i know i''m not alone - the ''how to get your baby to sleep'' market is HUGE.

sleep is so good, so wonderful, so heavenly..... i think i can still remember it

 

[Mara]

viz, woman...i could NEVER go on 2 hours of sleep for months. i would seriously have lost it a long time ago. and i personally don''t think that anyone NEEDS to do that. i don''t think you need to apologize or feel bad for wanting to sleep more...it''s a necessity in life and you are working too, you need to function!

the odd thing to me is that babies like J''s age can obviously go for very long stretches on one feeding...he is doing it (granted on partial formula) but i have friends whose babies are doing it at 6 weeks on just breast milk too. so the whole ''it''s digested within 90 min''...i dunno i believe that. obviously there are so many diff ways to look at it. but these babies on BM only are going 5-6 hour stretches at 6 weeks. and J is going like 7-8 hours on 80% BM and 20% formula.

so it''s always baffling to me to know that babies CAN do it but for whatever reason don''t always. and i''m sure J won''t always be a great sleeper. he''ll have his setbacks, his changes, etc...just like so many other babies.

re tanking them up during the day. i have read about that in a few books, but haven''t tried it.

i will say that logically when J sleeps his long stretches he seems really hungry when he gets up and sucks down a huge bottle. so MAYBE if can get C to eat an extra 1/2oz each feeding during the day he won''t need the night and you can wean him down? logically anyway.

honestly i feel like it''s all just trial and error. see what will work. but again don''t expect it to work immediately before you toss something out...give each option it''s own time and see.

 

[NovemberBride]

Viz,

You are not selfish at all! I feel for you, sometimes it is so hard to tell with these little ones. I think part of it might be that he is still pretty little and his stomach isn''t big enough to handle a really big feeding that would tide him over longer. I think Daisy is on the smaller side and Olivia is pretty little as well (12.5 lbs and 4 months), so that might be part of why they wake more often to eat than some of the babies around here who are a little bigger. Think of it this way - a lot of babies start to STTN at 8 weeks, but a lot of 8 week old babies are as big or bigger than Charlie is now. I think STTN has as much or more to do with weight than age.

Maybe try eliminating one of the feedings for a week or so. The worst that can happen is that it won''t work, and then you''ll be no worse off than you are now, right? Can you try to make the 12 o''clock feeding a little bigger (not sure if he''ll accept it) to compensate for dropping the 3? Olivia is breastfed so I don''t know exactly how many ounces she''s getting, but I always try to keep her on the boob longer at her last feeding. If she pulls off too soon I try to stick her back on. If I can get her to that "milk coma" state, that''s usually a good sign that she''s going to give me a good stretch of sleep that night.

 

[NovemberBride]

Date: 3/17/2010 5:19:51 PM
Author: Mara
viz, woman...i could NEVER go on 2 hours of sleep for months. i would seriously have lost it a long time ago. and i personally don''t think that anyone NEEDS to do that. i don''t think you need to apologize or feel bad for wanting to sleep more...it''s a necessity in life and you are working too, you need to function!


the odd thing to me is that babies like J''s age can obviously go for very long stretches on one feeding...he is doing it (granted on partial formula) but i have friends whose babies are doing it at 6 weeks on just breast milk too. so the whole ''it''s digested within 90 min''...i dunno i believe that. obviously there are so many diff ways to look at it. but these babies on BM only are going 5-6 hour stretches at 6 weeks. and J is going like 7-8 hours on 80% BM and 20% formula.


so it''s always baffling to me to know that babies CAN do it but for whatever reason don''t always. and i''m sure J won''t always be a great sleeper. he''ll have his setbacks, his changes, etc...just like so many other babies.


re tanking them up during the day. i have read about that in a few books, but haven''t tried it.


i will say that logically when J sleeps his long stretches he seems really hungry when he gets up and sucks down a huge bottle. so MAYBE if can get C to eat an extra 1/2oz each feeding during the day he won''t need the night and you can wean him down? logically anyway.


honestly i feel like it''s all just trial and error. see what will work. but again don''t expect it to work immediately before you toss something out...give each option it''s own time and see.

Tanking up during the day has worked for us - I feed her like clockwork every 3 hours (and daycare gives her a bottle every 3 hours too) during the day and she usually gives us 6-8 hours at night.

I think it really is very individual to each baby as far as when and how they can sleep. Just because some babies can STTN at 6 weeks, doesn''t necessarily mean that all babies can, even with sleep training. You can try all the techniques in the book, but I think some of it is nature in addition to nurture. Like Daisy, when Olivia wakes up in the night she starts rooting around to feed. That is such a primitive, instinctual thing, I can''t imagine trying to override her natural instinct and trying to soothe her back to sleep. But, if I had a baby that woke up and was just fussy or trying to play, I would definitely be more inclined to try more of the sleep training techniques. Like a lot of things, I think you have to learn to read your individual baby''s cues to figure out their needs.

 

[steph72276]

Viz, you might have already said something about this, but are you opposed to trying some rice cereal in his bottle at night? I think most peds say 4-6 months, and just having some in his night bottle might be enough to get him through a little longer. Oh and you''re not selfish at all...sleep deprivation is no fun.

 

[ChinaCat]

Viz- I so often have felt that helpless "can someone please TELL me what to do" feeling and O is actually a pretty good sleeper. Sleep deprivation is torture (literally) and it becomes such a never-ending cycle. You can''t think straight b/c you can''t sleep, but you can''t sleep b/c you can''t think straight enough to figure out what to do (or b/c you are at the hands of a little dictator

). So on the one hand I agree with November and Fiery- I really do think that if Charlie is waking up hungry, then he''s hungry and you should feed him. Even at 4.5 months. BUT OTOH, it is a bit extreme that you get NO sleep and that C never sleeps long enough to give you a break. For that reason, I think you should do a little experimenting.

Like someone else asked, what are his hungry cues and is he for sure giving you hungry cues when he wakes up at night?
Also, tell me what his feeding schedule is like. Do you always feed him at a certain time, hungry or not? Or do you let him tell you he''s hungry and then feed him? O sometimes takes FOREVER to eat during the day and apparently my nanny sometimes sits with him for an HOUR to get him to finish a bottle. She is very patient.

Now that he''s older, C is definitely more aware of his surroundings. With O, we have to go into his nursery and keep it quiet. Sometimes we have to rock him and sing to him to get him to take that last 2 oz or so. It''s a PITA, but the more he eats during the day, the more he sleeps at night so I do it.

O slept 10-12 hours from about 8 weeks till about 4 months. Enter 4 month wakeful, but also a growth spurt and he began getting up 1x to eat. At the time I was so frustrated, but in retrospect he''s a BABY and he was EBF and he was hungry. Just b/c he CAN go through the night w/o waking, doesn''t mean that when he did wake up he wasn''t hungry. I really had to let go of what I WANTED him to do and try and follow his cues and take care of him.

From about 4 months until 6 months, he was all over the place at night. Sometimes he STTN, sometimes got up 1x, sometimes 2x. Then he magically went back to STTN (with the occasional wake up due to teething and me doing something stupid like posting on here that he STTN- guess tonight I will get my comeuppance

).

During the 5-6 month period, I started noticing that he wasn''t really eating very much, if at all, when waking. So I knew he really didn''t need to eat, and it was easy to know whether to soothe him or feed him. If he''s hungry, there is NO soothing him.

All of this to say that C is still a baby and is still figuring this stuff out. I think until about 6 months, I would follow their cues. At 6 months you will see a huge change in C and I think it will be easier to figure him out and also to start sleep training a bit.

BUT I also think that you can try and drop some of his feedings. I think your idea of feeding him at midnight, but then try to make him drop the 3 am feeding is a good start.

It does get easier, I PROMISE. My BFF had a baby that sounds VERY similar to Charlie and she went through exactly what you are going through. When her daughter was 6 months old I was shocked that O was sleeping way longer at night at 3 months than her DD. She eventually went to a baby sleep doctor and got a plan and finally sleep trained her daughter. Took about 3 nights of CIO (with repeated visits by mom to shush/soothe) but worked. Now her daughter is almost 1 and it''s hard for her to remember how bad it was at first. I am going to ask her for tips for you. She lives literally across the world so it''s hard for me to get her at the right time, but I will email her and see what she says. HANG IN THERE.

Sorry for the novel.

 

[mtjoya]

Can u ladies please give me tips/advice on how I can have my baby sleep AT LEAST 5 hours straight at night?

 

[cdt1101]

Viz - If it were me, I''d start w/ trying to reduce 1 feeding 1st. So 1 feed tonight drop by an oz or 2 and hopefully gradually drop that 1 feed. Then go from there. I wouldn''t start reducing every feed. I also think Steph suggestion is a good one (adding rice, although we did oatmeal because the rice gave him so much gas). I know there is nothing proven that it will help, but it''s worth a try (we never added to bottle, but I have friends who swear by this for the bedtime bottle). I did the gradual wean w/ Lex for the dream feed at around 4/5 months and had no problems. And again, I know some don''t agree, but we definitely were "tanking up" in those early months. So if Lex ate every 3 hours during the day, his last 2 bottle of the day would only be 2 hours apart (cluster feed).

I can''t remember exactly, but at C''s age Lex''s feeds looked something like this

6:00am - 5oz
9:00am - 5oz
12:00pm - 5oz
2:00pm - 5oz
4:00pm - 5oz
6:00pm - 5oz

So a total of 30 oz for the day, but those last few bottles were closer together. I think Lex may have had more ozes each bottle at that point because he weighed more than Charlie I''m sure, but just wanted you give you a general idea of what worked for us (even if I can''t remember all the specifics

).

And PLEASE do not apologize for anything...I would have LOST if long ago if I were you! You''re doing a GREAT job!

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 3/17/2010 6:47:00 PM
Author: mtjoya
Can u ladies please give me tips/advice on how I can have my baby sleep AT LEAST 5 hours straight at night?

Still waiting for that one at 10 months I''m afraid...

Are you EBF or formula feeding?

 

[phoenixgirl]

Viz, maybe if you can get Charlie to go longer between feeds in general, it will translate into night time too? (Seriously, isn''t this the bonus of daycare, that you can be like, "OK, feed him every four hours now . . . good luck with that!" and you don''t have to pull your hair out if it''s tough going at first?). Then maybe he''d get used to going longer stretches. At this point maybe his biorhythms or whatever are set on a 3 hour schedule. Maybe you can aim for 7 feedings a day as your first goal . . . when he''s awake during the day, see if you can distract him when he gets hungry . . . take him outside or something. And then when you feed him, offer him an extra ounce; he''ll probably be hungrier from the wait and might just take it. Just a couple of 3.5 or 4 hour stretches during the day might get you to the 7 feedings with the same 32 ounce total. Then when you work on night, he''ll be a little more accustomed to going longer, and you can gradually go to 6 feedings a day, etc.

Either that or I''d try the "tank up" before bed -- offer the 9 p.m. bottle at 8, the midnight bottle at 10, and hope for the best!

And it could also be that sleep is playing a factor. Is he napping in the late evening? Maybe if you try to distract him from napping as much in the evening, he''ll naturally go a longer stretch after the 9 p.m. feed?

Currently Claire eats 6, sometimes 5 times a day, but she is EBF so it''s not a fair comparison. She does about 5 feeds at regular intervals between 7 a.m. and 8 p.m. and one middle of the night feed. I do always encourage her to keep eating because I feel like once I''ve "committed" to the feeding, I want it to be a good one, not just a snack. Sometimes at night when she wakes up she''ll go back down a pacifier (she often wakes up chatting, but not crying). We don''t force it or ignore her if she sounds distressed, but we also don''t rush in to feed her every time she wakes up for a bit. Usually we get it right, but once or twice I''ve gotten up to feed her and she took hardly anything and fell asleep on the boob.

Hang in there!!! Sleep deprivation is a you know what! I am not one of those people who can function on very little sleep. I come from a long line of sleeper-inners.


Mtjoya, what is your current nap/eat schedule looking like over a 24 hour period?


Amber, yay on the long stretch! But sorry about the boob!


So, is it normal for the baby to flop around in her crib like a prisoner tied up on a pirate ship trying to scoot on his butt to freedom? She flops and flails and often spins herself like a bowling pin so that she is 90 or 180 degrees from how she was put down. The other day she got her foot through the crib bars above the bumper and was just sleeping like that. It''s really cute to see how she''s ended up when you go to get her, but on the other hand, it makes me nervous that she is so mobile, and I don''t like it when she winds up perpendicular to how she was placed because there''s no much head/foot room when she winds up width-wise.

I took out the BOB for the first time today. Claire seemed to like it, and I was always given the right of way when crossing the street.

The only hitch was that I hit a wall (figuratively) and only ran for 35 minutes and then walked the 20 minutes home. Still good exercise, though.

We think Claire is teething. Does that sound right for almost 5 months?

 

[Mandarine]

Viz, you are not selfish...you are the OPPOSITE of selfish! Many moms would have acted to get more sleep a LONG time ago!. You have SO much patience and you''re doing a great job!. Now, obviously my 5month 1 week old babies are still not STTN...BUT they only eat once per night.

From 4 feedings to 1 was just something they sort of did on their own...with some "help". Meaning, I really REALLY really REALLY tried to get them to eat their full bottles during the day. Some call it force feeding, I call it being persistent

Sometimes it would take them over an hour, but they finished their bottles almost every time!. If they fell sleep, I would wake them up...if they took too long of a nap (ha! that rarely happened!) I would wake them up to eat...essentially I did what I could to get them to eat more. One thing that seemed to help was increasing the amount of time between bottles. Initially they were eating every 1.5 hours to 2 hours (not kidding!). I don''t know how often C is eating now, so this point may be mute, but I slowly moved them to an every three hour schedule. If they got hungry before, I would do everything I could to distract them. That always made them eat more when it was "time" to eat.

Now to eliminate the one last feeding they are hanging on to...I have no idea!!!!...but I did get them from eating 6oz at that bottle, to only eating 4oz...sometimes even less. Some nights I try to give them 2 oz and try to put them back to sleep to see if it works...and sometimes it does!....so I try again the next night.

Everything was going pretty good until they got their shots and now got colds. So now I let them eat their full 4oz and now they are waking up more than once per night (sigh)....but they are sick...so I can''t really say no!...they barely eat during the day, so if they want to eat at night so be it...the poor dudes are miserable

Anyway...I don''t think your plan is bad at all. I really think the reducing of food gradually really works. Ohh and I also think that it works to try to push back each feeding. So if he wakes up before it''s "time" (meaning whatever time he''s usually getting up) you try to soothe him. I don''t do this with mine because honestly it never works...I can never soothe them (which is why I still try everyday to have them take a paci!)

Anyway, gotta go...I hope I made some sort of sense!!!

 

[taovandel]

PG: Evan spins all over the place also in the crib. We put him down yesterday (still awake if you remember) and when we went in like 15 minutes later to see if he had fallen asleep he was in the opposite direction asleep on his side.

No Sleep sack last night seemed to work for us. I think it helped that we never swaddled him for naps so it wasn''t a cruch completely with him. He still woke up twice but it was easy to put him back down. And we had to actually wake him up this morning to take him to the babysitter! That hasn''t happened in about a month!

We also did a tiny bit of oatmeal which seemed much more agreeable to him then the rice....He wasn''t fussy at all today.

Also, I think one reason that E has been sleeping so badly is because we started stretching his bottles out to 4 hours. I''m trying to think of why he suddenly stopped sleeping through the night (Other than the whole 4 month growth thingy)...the only thing that has changed in his routine was the stretching out of the bottles....And he is a tiny thing also (13 lbs 3 oz.) and he barely increased his intake...he still does between 4-6 oz in each bottle.

Hopefully the oatmeal will start to fill him up a bit more at night...fingers crossed for another good night/morning/day...hehe.

 

[Burk]

So K had his one month appt. yesterday and he was 9lb 14 oz!!!

He was only 7lb 1oz at birth so the kid is putting on weight like a champ! Doc prescribed zantac for the reflux and breastfeeding doc today recommended we try probiotics for the food intolerance so tonight will be the first night with all the meds in him...hopefully I can get a 5 hr stretch-it''s been a few days since I got one of those!!

Steph~Thanks! I loved all the ones with T and K together so it''ll be hard to choose. Too funny about the jersey! I bet no one even noticed!

Mara~Thanks for the info on the chamomile...makes sense to not replace a feeding with it. You are one lucky lady with those long stretches at night!! I would give anything to get a 5 hour stretch back!!! He has had a couple rough nights in a row and I''m exhausted.

Viz~Thanks! It could def. be different foods K is intolerant to. I''m starting a food journal today and giving it a few days and will very likely have to try the total elimination diet if things don''t improve. Rice is weird but the bf doc I sw today actually said she saw one lady last week whose kid was intolerant to fish. Odd. You''ve gotten a ton of great advice regarding the night feedings. I would probably try and ween one night feeding at a time as well. I seriously cannot imagine being this sleep deprived and having to work!

China~Thanks!

Fiery~Thanks!! Looking forward to Sophia standing pics!

Mandarine~Hope you were able to get some rest!

Tao~Sorry for rough nights!

Pandora~Tayva had some night terrors (or so we think) around 18 months and it was not fun. Hopefully it''s just a phase (Tayva only did it for a week or so) and Daisy gets through it soon!

RPS~Thanks!! The doctor was helpful. Have you heard of "shells?" She has me wearing them to help heal the cracks and it''s a PITA because I leak like crazy. Anyway, she said once the cracks heal the vasospasms will end so we''ll see. I wish I could reason with T to make her understand that we love her the same, too. So hard because these behaviors that are just a "look at me" attempt are so frustrating but then I feel bad for being frustrated because I know she just feels left out. Poor kiddos.

Ack...K is starting to "talk" Must be getting hungry.

 

[natalina]

Viz- oh man, I wish I had advice for you, but if you've read my recent posts you know that Ellie has really fallen off the wagon with her sleep habits. I'll tell you what we did, and you just take it for what it's worth:

Bedtime 8pm. I always fed her whenever she woke at night (usually around 1am and 4am, then pretty much up for the day around 6am) until about 4 months. Then I decided just to see what would happen if at her 1am wake-up I just put her binky back in, and it went over really well. Sometimes her 4am wake-up was a bit earlier, but not always. So after a while of that (maybe 2 weeks?) I decided to try to eliminate the 4am also. Basically got her to go to 5am, then I would feed her in bed with us and we'd doze together for another couple of hours. When I started eliminating feeds, she would still wake up at night, but we would just plug the binky back in and she'd go back to sleep. Now I feel like I got greedy with sleep and am paying the price. Understand, this is my thought process in my current frustrated and sleep-deprived state, but here it is: Ellie slept like a dream before I started messing with her feeds. Out like a light as soon as I put her down and right back out after each feed. And 8pm-1am=5 hours, then 1am-4am=3 hours...I should have been happy!!!! So as I posted a couple days ago, we now live in fear of the damn binky falling out and run in to replace it all night. So Sunday night we decided to let her CIO, and she literally cried ALL NIGHT. Now, I don't like CIO in theory, but felt like if it was the magic trick that would fix the all night long wake-ups, it would be worth it. We were expecting maybe an hour of crying a few times each night. YEAH RIGHT. OMG- it was horrendous. Same thing Monday night. Last night she went down without a fight, and each time that DAMN binky fell out (like every hour to hour-and-a-half) guess what I did? Ran in there and replaced it as fast as I could! I know it's not the answer but I cannot and will not make her cry alone for hours on end.

I am rambling and way off topic for your question. Sorry...You can tell where my head is!

Anyhoo, I would feed C if he seems really hungry. But I do think it's a great idea to try to get him to take more during the day, and especially at his last feed of the day. I know cereal seems to be controversial and everyone says it doesn't effect sleep, but I would try giving C just a tiny bit of rice cereal mixed with formula about an hour before bed. And I mean a tiny bit- like one teaspoon of the cereal before adding liquid. If he doesn't take to it yet, so be it. There is single-grain oatmeal as well, if you are worried about allergies since your sister's kids were allergic to rice. Ellie actually prefers the oatmeal. I would also really try to get him to consolidate feedings if at all possible, meaning fewer feedings with more at each. But I am thinking you probably tried that.

Lastly, I just have to say (and I really mean this, I don't want to sound like I am just blowing smoke), you are certainly NOT crazy! Even if you were able to get eight one-hour increments of sleep, that is SO not the same as a solid night's sleep! I truly hope that you find something that works. I just don't really feel qualified to give you advice since I haven't figured it out yet either! Oh to have my newborn and her sleep habits back! Man, I NEVER thought I would say that!!!

ETA: Burk- I just have to say I LOVE your new avatar and the pics of K! They are so sweet. T looks like a little angel in the avatar shot. Awww...

 

[Mandarine]

I''m freaking out....I''m feeling OFF, like my throat is itchy....and overall body ache. It''s not just general exhaustion because I did take a two hour nap this morning (thank you babysitter that I love!!!)

I really can''t afford to get sick!!!! DH is off to Vegas this weekend for a bachelor party...and my boys are still pretty sick!!!!

Please, please, please send healthy vibes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I better go to bed and ignore the itch!

 

[mtjoya]

Pandora II & Phoneix-Currently, I am breast-feeding and occasionally supp with Enfamil Lipil Formula. I do know that I am producing quite a bit. She was born weighing 6lbs. 7ounces. At her monthly appointment she weighed 9lbs. 1 ounce! She grabs at my nipple like I have been starving her! She is a little pitbulll! LOL..But I am hoping that she will sleep thru the night. She has been feeding every 2.5-3 hours. For the past two nights she ACTUALLY slept 4 hours. I am hoping that she continues this streak because mommy is tired!

LOL..

 

[Mara]

mtjoya... your baby is a few days behind J in age right? we have had success with giving him the formula at night mixed with breast milk (and more recently rice cereal to help his reflux) which seems to help him sleep longer. we really try to tank him up at the before bed feeding.

so one of my coworkers with a 9month old who does not STTN sent out a training PDF that one of her friends went to for this seminar they paid for on sleep training. here are some of the highlights...

--talks about using 'rinse and repeat' for putting the baby down at night drowsy but not quite asleep. rinse and repeat is 'pick up put down' (i guess after soothing, it doesnt say)
-If baby is still not asleep after 2-3 attempts of “Rinse & Repeat, offer “Topper Feed” short breast feed or a few ounces in a bottle
-Starting at 6 weeks, when baby wakes at night, instead of feeding right away, gently reposition baby to push feed out for 15-30 min.
-Remember, babies 12-16 weeks have a huge amount of infant development taking place. They can see more and more everyday, they are more interested in people, and their environment, and are more social. You can help baby by darkening the room, or keeping room where baby is sleeping a “sleep room.” This may also be the time to move baby to their room for naps.
-Try to feed baby every 2-3 hrs during the day- fill her up during the day so that she learns that daytime is for eating, night-time is for sleeping
-For naps, try to get at least 1-3 naps per day in the crib/bassinet (non-movement naps) so that later when you do want her to sleep in her crib, she will be able to do it- try for morning to mid-day naps, as baby will be less tired and better with trying something new

the bolded areas seem really relevant to the discussion... sounds kind of like what happened last nite (first one) viz.. shades of success. the PDF is for 0-16 week old kids, which is interesting since i know most people don't even start 'sleep training' til 4 months and this is a doc for 'up to 4 months'...and things you could be doing. interesting. i am glad we moved J to his room early and that we are trying to get him to like the crib so we can move him soon. BUT i gotta say today i put him in the crib for a nap and he is WAY more mobile in there with that crib wedge thing, it is a little freaky and i don't know i love it. even with the sleep positioner his 'i dont wanna nap' squirming had him sideways and halfway down the wedge in like 10 min.

in the bassinet he tends to move way less. hmm.

natalina... can you try a modified CIO where you go in and soothe with the 'graduated extinction' kind of idea (aka wait a few minutes then go in and then wait a few minutes more etc). did i already recommend 'no cry' book to you? it talks about the gradual thing. you may not want to do CIO after all but most people who i have talked to who did do CIO, it took a little while. a modified method might be more to your liking if E is stubborn. i could totally see J doing the cry for hours thing...he already has a crazy set of stubborn lungs on him...and honestly if it takes hours i don't think i'd be into it either, i'd rather do a modified method.

 

[rockpaperscissors67]

About bedtime...I''m going to admit right now that we SUCK at bedtime routines and generally don''t have anything close to one for small kids until they''re like a year old! Ben stays out in the living room each night until I''m ready to go to bed. He nurses and naps on and off and has some cries and then after his fussy period around 10:30, he passes out. Well, he doesn''t really pass out, but he falls into his deep sleep for the night and then sleeps 5-6 hours. Last night, he didn''t fuss nearly as much as previous nights, so I hope we''re turning a corner. He had about 20 minutes when he didn''t want to settle, but then I fed him again and he fell asleep about 11:30. He got me up at 5, so that''s a pretty good stretch. For us, it works to have no expectations because then we don''t get frustrated easily. Anyhow, that''s why I have nothing useful to add to the bedtime discussion!

Mara, ugh, sorry about feeling like AF is coming back. Unfortunately, I think the 10 months average is for ebf. Once you start adding anything else and baby isn''t nursing (or you''re not pumping) around the clock, prolactin levels decrease and that opens the door for AF''s return.

I am right there with you with messing with getting the horns of the pump situated! I''ve figured out two things that I dislike with the Freestyle -- I have had some problems getting the horns placed exactly right and they warped! Apparently, the warping is common with the soft fit shields after a lot of washing and it doesn''t affect how they work, but it''s annoying that after only 7 weeks, they''re not pristine anymore.

About jumping...how weird is it that after childbirth, jumping is such an odd sensation? The other night when we were at Dave & Buster''s, I tried to play a game that simulated jumping rope and it was a big fail on my part. I jumped ONCE and could not believe how horrible it felt! It wasn''t my bladder that was the problem, but instead a general feeling of imbalance. Yeah, I get it...I''m too old to be jumping rope!

Viz, lol, I''ve been beating myself up for years so why should I take a break now??? I know why the extra weight bothers me -- my mom has struggled with her weight all of her life and so I have a really warped perception of what''s normal. I''m at 130 lbs. which is perfectly acceptable for someone who''s 5''6", but thanks to my issues, at this weight, I just feel huge. Maybe it wouldn''t be so bad if I didn''t think the weight was concentrated in my belly and butt. And if I didn''t have a closet full of clothing that I can''t fit into, I''d feel better, too.

I don''t blame you for being entertained by C giggling in the middle of the night! I know you''re supposed to be all business during the night and not allow play, etc., but I couldn''t resist it, either. Too cute!

I have no clue about what to do about C''s night time waking, but I hope you find something that works for both of you. Like Pandora, since we co-sleep, I find it much easier to feed Ben than to try to get him back to sleep without nursing. The same thing went on with Will for at least his entire first year. I can nurse without waking fully so that''s why night waking doesn''t really bother me.

Amber, I''m so glad you don''t get migraines much. I wouldn''t wish them on my worst enemy!

Sha, I didn''t watch that show, but I think if I were surprised by 5 at once, I would probably just drop dead from the shock. I can handle 1 baby at a time (most of the time!) and admire the hell out of the twin moms I know. Five at a time is something I can''t even wrap my mind around. Just the constant NEED has to be hard because when would you get a break? I hope that family has a lot of help, too.

PG, yep, teething sounds totally normal for 5 months, even if you don''t see teeth for a while! Several of my kids actually showed teething behaviors a lot earlier -- like at 3 months -- but didn''t actually have teeth pop through for several months after that. I highly recommend Hyland''s Teething Tablets -- they don''t work for all babies, but they were a godsend for my younger daughter.

Burk, wow, K sure is getting big!

I have heard of breast shells, although I''ve never used them. Since they keep the nipple protected from anything touching them, it''s conceivable that they''ll help the cracks heal. I hope that they work to help you feel better because I can''t imagine how painful it is to have cracks like that.

I understand exactly what you mean about T. All I can say is that it WILL get better.

Mandarine, I''m sending stay well vibes! Take good care of yourself!


============

I''m trying something new because I felt like even though I''m taking several things to help my supply, it''s not doing well because Ben is SUCH a lazy nurser. I''m not kidding when I say that he''ll nurse for less than 10 minutes and fall asleep. Then he''ll wake like 20 minutes later (well, really, that''s the longest) and want to nurse again...and then fall asleep. Since he''s not emptying me well, I''m doing it for him by pumping the other side every time he nurses. If he starts that head bobbing with refusing to stay latched, I give him the milk I pumped but if he doesn''t, I toss it in the fridge to add to my freezer stash. I think that I''ve already seen a slight increase in my supply by just doing this one day, so I''m hoping this will be a good routine for us. The only thing that''s a pain is that I wash the pump parts after each pumping because I hate that the shields get milk all over them. The positive is that I have 42 oz. in the freezer with another 9 in the fridge that I''ll transfer over today, which means that I''m almost halfway to having the stash I need in order to be ready to travel for work. I really won''t be able to do so until Ben is in day care around 12 weeks, but having the stash there will make me feel much better.

My Friday confession a day early: I *hate* bathing Ben with a passion because he screams like I''m killing him! He''s had maybe 5 baths in the past 7 weeks. I had to do it yesterday because he has some dry skin on his scalp so it was time to work on that a bit. Oh, the screaming was amazing! One thing I do like is that after a bath, his hair stands up all over his head and looks all fuzzy like a little chick.

Plus, he smells good! I''m really sensitive to scents in soaps/lotions, but I love the lavender baby wash. I''ve been using the Target variety for several years now -- I started using it on Will and fell in love with the smell so that''s all I use on the boys and will even use it myself.

Hope you all have a good day...Friday is almost here!

 

[Sabine]

Viz - 2 of the sleep books talk about how to wean from night feedings in a process similar to what you described...I *think* it was Ferber''s book and The Sleep Easy Solution, but I can''t remember for sure and have put my books away. One of them said to just decrease the amount in overnight bottles at a pace you feel comfortable with, and when the bottle gets down to 2 oz. and they still go back to sleep, you can assume that they don''t really need that feed, they are just waking for comfort/habit. The other book actually suggested waking them an hour or a half hour BEFORE they would normally wake to eat, then feed them the decreased amount (this was to address the ''habit'' part of the waking iirc). It''s definitely worth a try...and if he''s eating less overnight he should start being more willing to take more during the day.

I also did something similar when we were weaning Jacks from his night feedings. We didn''t stop the feedings all together until 6.5 months, but he was starting to sttn occasionally, so when he would wake, I would try giving him smaller and smaller amounts. He went from 8 oz. overnight to 6, to 5, 4, 3, and then there were times when I would give him 2 just because it was the easiest way to get him to go back to sleep quickly off and on, and then we had to do CIO to get him to stop waking at all. By the time he was down to 2 oz, he would wake up and literally SCREAM, and if I went in and tried to comfort him without a bottle, he wouldn''t settle at all no matter what I did (I convinced myself he was teething or something, but each time, he just wanted the bottle). And as soon as he''d get the bottle in his mouth, he''d conk out. That''s when I knew he didn''t really need to eat overnight anymore. Also, if he didn''t finish his bottle before his bath, we''d offer the rest of it after the bath, and even though he wasn''t falling asleep at the bottle, the nights that he''d some right before bed he was MUCH more likely to wake, so now if he doesn''t finish his bottle before his bath, he doesn''t get any more, and we haven''t had any problems with waking since we stopped that.

 

[vizsla]

darn you all! now i''m sitting at my desk crying.. in a good way... i feel so supported

. a huge gigantic heartfelt thank you to everyone who has posted. i know in my heart of hearts that what i have been doing hasn''t been ''wrong'' or that i haven''t been creating bad habits. i know what charlie needs is help and a huge amount of human touch .. but i also realize that i need something too.. and we are going to have to comprise kiddo.

china - as soon as you said ''just tell me what to do'' i wanted to scream "exactly!!" just tell me what will work! i feel like we''ve gone thru so much trial and error already and i was totally resigned to the fact that charlie was high needs, but i never thought i would still be dealing with the every 2 hour thing at almost 5 months.

i wanted to post what a typical day is like to see what you all thought. (this was actually yesterday when i cut back on the 3am feeding, but the only difference every other day would be the oz at 3am and the bottle before ''bed'')

BTW - charlie is on formula only and we have moved him to his crib - he seems to do better without distractions from mom and dad or the dog at night.. or, at least, i don''t hear him and wake up more than i already do. (the crib has nothing to do with the below schedule, he does the same thing regardless if he is in the pnp, our bed or crib)

nat - i do the same thing with the paci too.. a lot of times he will kick it out of his mouth on his own, so i don''t put it back in... and typically when he''s really really asleep he kicks it out and i put him down without it... but when he gets out of his deep sleep (ha!) and realizes it''s not there.. hold on to your horses because he KNOWS it....

5-6am - wake up / eat 4-5oz
7-7:30a - nap
8:00a - off to daycare
8:45a - ate 4-5oz
10:15-11:30a - nap
12:00p - ate 4-5oz
12:45-1:15p - nap
3:00p - ate 4-5oz
3:15p - nap (dad usually wakes him up to take him home)
4-5:30p - nap
6:00p - ate 5oz
7:30p - bedtime routine (added a bottle in hopes this would give us another few hours - ate 4oz)
9:00p - woke up - i soothed him back to sleep (after about 30mins)
11:00p - woke up - ate 5oz
12:00p - woke up - dad soothed
1:00a - woke up - mom soothed
1:30a - fell asleep
1:45a - woke up, mom soothed
2:00a - fell back to sleep
2:30a - woke up - fed him 3oz
3:00a - back to sleep
5:15a - woke up for the day - fed him 4-5oz

so in a 24 hr period that is 38oz.

he is on a 3 hour eating schedule during the day .. and almost always WANTS to eat at each 3 hr interval. last night before he went to bed he didn''t ''cue'' to eat, but i thought in a last ditch effort to ''tank him up'' i would try to give him some more food, and he ate it.

i guess what is just slightly frustrating is that a couple of months back he WAS going for 5 hr stretches. and now, it''s like he just doesn''t know how to get past that 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 sleep cycle. i really don''t know if he has ever slept for more than 3 hours straight without waking up.

DH bought some infant rice cereal, and we talked about putting it in his bottle at night... i just wonder.. is he waking because when he cycles out of that deep sleep he feels hungry? is he sad he''s alone? in his crib? is his reflux making his tummy hurt and eating makes him feel better? is he gassy? the list goes on and on. i think he''s generally a very ''sensitive fellow'' that probably can''t push past any type of discomfort. ugh... i just don''t know... we are waiting for the prevacid to kick back in... hoping this will ''do the trick''. our pedi did say that the antibiotic he is on for his ear infection could upset his stomach... but i also think it can''t ALWAYS be something.. he HAS to learn how to sleep.. and i want to teach him in a ''good association'' way....

ugh... do i even make sense anymore? i''m going on one brain cell and caffeine.

i hope asking for some dust doesn''t jinx anything, as this is all just exploratory buuuuuutttt i have a phone interview/conversation with a company that is literally walking distance from my house tonight- i realllllyyy want this to work out. they didn''t have any job postings, i just sort of got a little ballsy and solicited them, so i don''t know if they have anything for me... but a call back phone interview is promising right???

anyhoo, so what are your thoughts now that you''ve seen our schedule??
try to increase the time between feedings?? rice cereal? bigger issue to why he can''t sleep in longer stretches??

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 3/17/2010 10:43:38 PM
Author: mtjoya
Pandora II & Phoneix-Currently, I am breast-feeding and occasionally supp with Enfamil Lipil Formula. I do know that I am producing quite a bit. She was born weighing 6lbs. 7ounces. At her monthly appointment she weighed 9lbs. 1 ounce! She grabs at my nipple like I have been starving her! She is a little pitbulll! LOL..But I am hoping that she will sleep thru the night. She has been feeding every 2.5-3 hours. For the past two nights she ACTUALLY slept 4 hours. I am hoping that she continues this streak because mommy is tired!

LOL..

For you, I wouldn''t recommend the cereal in the bottle. At her age, there''s a much greater chance of her choking than her actually taking any cereal in to make her full enough to sleep.

I highly ditto cluster feeding before bed though. If she goes to bed at 8pm, for example, I''d do a feeding at 5pm, 6:30pm, and then again at 8pm. I would also suggest trying a dream feed. It didn''t work for others but it worked for us. So if you go to bed at 10pm, I would feed her before going to bed that way it helps her stay full longer while you are sleeping.

If you don''t have some sort of white noise, I would recommend it. You can get either a machine, the sleep sheep that Mara uses, or a CD.

And then the usual stuff that I''m sure you are doing:
-if she isn''t swaddled, try swaddling
-if she has a night light, try turning it off or try keeping her room as dark as possible
-You can try giving her a quick bath with warm water before bed. Sometimes that knocks them out for a few hours.

Viz-Remind me how old Charlie is again? If he''s getting 38oz, it may be time to start him on solids.

 

[vizsla]

he will be 20 weeks old this saturday. i used to think he wasn''t getting enough to eat with the piddly 4oz feedings.. but maybe?? our pedi said to try rice cereal, then oatmeal at 5 months and report back to her at our 6 month visit.

 

[fieryred33143]

Is that his usual schedule on the weekends too? Is there any way to tell the daycare to make sure he takes all 5oz even if it takes longer to feed him?

He may be going through that 4 month wakeful too.