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PS Mommy Thread-Newborn to 12 months!

blen - sorry about the dog, and good luck with your new life as a SAHM!

DD - I hope CIO works! I think I''m about ready to try morning CIO. Kyle goes to bed and sleeps all night, but the last 2 weeks he''s started waking up an hour earlier
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Phoenix - I hope BFing gets better for you, for something that seems like it should be so easy an natural, it''s a lot of work!


My little man is 9 months old today, it''s gone by way too fast
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Blen, did you hear about the BOB yet? Hope you get it!

PG, Yes, I believe what you have is a SNS. TGuy finger fed and I did so at first too. But then another LC said why are you doing that? She said she should attach it to my nipple to build up milk supply (duh, why didn''t I think of that! But I didn''t know how those things were used and that''s what the hospital LC told me to do.) Such a relief to attach it to my nipple...finger feeding in the same position for 45 minutes is an arm killer!

And I remember being able to sleep through a feed because TGuy helped with those early feedings via SNS. You''ll feel like a new person (at least for a few hours) and wonder how you ever thought 4 hours was not a lot of sleep.
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Thanks again, guys.

TG, evidently I was response #2 out of 7, or something like that, and she''s going in order. So if #1 decides not to take it for some reason, she was supposed to give me a call. She hasn''t yet, and I''m not holding out much hope honestly. Boo.

PG, I really hope that BFing starts to get better for you.

MG, I can''t believe how time just flies. I mean, everyone says that it does, but still. 9 months already?!

BFing has mostly been going fine for me but occasionally (like now) I have a dip in supply and horrible horrible nipple pain. I finally realized that it seems to be coming about once a month, and that I just ovulated, and that they''re probably linked up. It''s nice knowing what''s going on, but I don''t want this to happen every month! Ugh.
 
Ooof! So much to catch up on.

First, all of your LOs looked ADORABLE in their costumes. We have some beautiful babies here.

Robbie- I'm sorry to hear about your niece. Hopefully they find out what's causing her so much stress.

Pandora- It's definitely babbling right now. H makes a noise that sounds like moooowwwmmm, and I tease my husband by saying, "did you hear that? That was clearly MOM." It doesn't really count, though- not quite yet!

Blen- I'm so sorry about your pup.

mela- I'm glad you had fun with your friends! I L(ed)OL @ stiiiiill got it!

phoenix- I hope Claire passes her birth weight (by many ounces!
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), and you're able to find a plan that works better for you.

Mustang- Happy 9 months, Kyle!

At the beginning of this week, we decided to teach Henry to sleep unswaddled, cold turkey. The first night, he slept fine. We thought, all right! This'll be a piece of cake.

WRONG.

The second night, he was up every two hours. The third night, he wouldn't even let us put him in the co-sleeper without waking up and screaming. He'd fall asleep in my arms, and the second his body hit the mattress, he'd JOLT awake and cry, cry, cry. This happened seven or eight times in row. Exhausted, we brought him into bed with us, and he slept like a rock, the little monkey. So now, we're officially co-sleeping.
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It was the right time. He's a LONG little guy (95th percentile for length) and he almost touches both ends of the co-sleeper when stretched out. We were going to start co-sleeping as soon as he outgrew the co-sleeper, which he'd do in a matter of weeks.

Not sleep-related: He is CONSTANTLY trying to roll onto his stomach when he's on his back. He succeeded on his own this morning (!), but once he's on his tummy, he starts trying to crawl. He can't yet, though, and gets frustrated, so I roll him onto his back. Lather, rinse, repeat. Anyone else's LO do this?
 
CIO night two

Hunter slept until 2:30 last nigth!!! The longest sleep since he was about 3 months old
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He woke then and started sqwacking one and off and seemed to do that for an hour or so again.... but this time it was *not* as frantic as it was the previous night. The he slept until 7am! Had a big feed in the am. So that was the first night he went 7pm to 7am without feeding and he seemed fine, which was one of my worries. And he seems happy, alert and very energetic this morning, so all is well. I think this was the right thing to do at the right time for him.

EBree Hunter used to get on his tummy and not be able to roll back again and it wreaked havoc on our lives for a month or more! HAHA. He would not try to crawl but would try to roll over. I''m glad co-sleeping works for you. It never did for us despite my pre-baby desire to cosleep for about a year. He doesn''t sleep well with us at all, and neither do we
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Pre-baby I never would have thought I would have him in his own room and use CIO. Amazing how things can change.

Update

Hunter now crawls on all fours, pulls himself up on things to standing, babbles up a storm, feeds himself peas, and is not a little baby anymore
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He is 9 months in another week! Blen The time really really does fly, I can''t believe it. Oh, and my milk gets low in my LP somewhere I find. Funny eh?
 
Ebree, George did that too. It was frustrating for both of us. And welcome to cosleeping! I love it.

DD, glad it''s working for you!

I forgot to mention - when we took George to urgent care the other day, they wanted a weight on him but didn''t have an infant scale. So they made me get on the scale holding him, and then get on not holding him. The whole scale thing is something that I haven''t done for well over a year. And apparently I''m up 20 lbs from when I last got on one.
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I''m feeling super bummed now that I actually know the numbers. I thought I had been doing so well.
 
Blen Every scale is different, you can only really track your weight using one scale/the same scale all the time. In the month that we were hobos, my moms scale said I had gained like 10lbs! Then when we got home and I got on my own scale, I have actually lost a couple pounds in the last month. So you are probably not that far off.

Night 3 of CIO

Last night Hunter di not wake until 4am! And he only cried for about 30 seconds, then was quiet for 5 mins, then repeated that pattern for about 30-45 minutes. That was it!

I never thought I would do this. It is terrible listening to him and not rushing in to help him. And I would not be doing it if it didn''t seem to be improving each night, and if he wasn''t is such great spirits, well rested and energetic the next days. A part of me still thinks it is wrong, but we tried other htings (me getting up 3x per night, cosleeping) and nothing worked
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I wish he would have just STTN on his own, but since he is 9 months old and isn''t, I guess we have to help him out!

Anyways, it seems to be working. I wish I felt better about it.
 
Blen, weight is a funny thing -- you should go on how you feel in your clothes. If you had been feeling good, then I believe that you're looking good too! Goodness knows this carrying a baby business pushes things in the body around and you can't expect to be exactly the same as before.

Dreamer, yay for a good night! I don't think there's anything to feel guilty about when he's only crying for 30 seconds -- that doesn't sound like any real distress to me.


So I called my ob/gyn yesterday because my uterine pain had returned out of the blue. There were days last week when I had walked two miles, carried Claire in her carseat some ridiculous distance into the LC place, carried her around in a sling, carried the laundry around, and there was no pain. Then after two or three days of not leaving the house and not doing anything except feed Claire constantly it came back, which seemed contrary to what you'd expect. The nurse first suggested it was because I was probably more active now than before, but when I said no, it was the opposite, she suggested that it could be because of all the extra feeding -- extra contractions affecting my incision site. That makes sense to me. Luckily the pain is gone today. It just feels like there is an incision line matching the visible one on the outside about one or two inches higher inside of me that can get very tender. It may also have been that the pants I was wearing yesterday put the wrong kind of pressure on it.

So there's no shame in still wearing your maternity clothes, right? I'm still up 25 pounds with a little post baby bump, maybe like I'm 4 months along. I have clothes that are approximately the right size from a few years ago when I weighed more, but they're not the right shape, if that makes sense. And I don't want to squeeze on a pair of pants and have it hit right at my incision site, so I'm going with the maternity pants that don't put pressure there.

The post baby bump reminds me -- DH's friend's wife had a fairly large bump still after giving birth, and someone in Walmart asked her when her baby was due (this was maybe two months ago). She just went along with it and said, "December," and he said, "Wow, it's going to be a big baby!"
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Things are going much better around here. I slept for 5 hours (in a row) last night and DH fed Claire at the 4:30 feeding; poor guy, it took him an hour with the syringe and trying to add formula at the end (though she only took 1/4 oz.). The (world's nicest) pediatrician called yesterday to check in on me and said that yes, it's ok to skip the formula if Claire is asleep, and that was a huge relief to me. I'm getting more when I pump -- at first it could be as little as 1/6 an ounce, but now it's consistently 1/2 ounce. It's a huge relief to know that if I pump 5 times a day, I can then skip a night feeding (sorry DH!) or leave the house without worrying about being back within an hour. I'm having mischievous thoughts of leaving Claire with a grandparent and going out to dinner, which is just about my favorite thing besides diamonds. Is that crazy?
 
Ugh, MIL is coming over to "hold Claire for 40 minutes." Oh sure, I can guarantee that the baby will not be eating, fussy etc. for 40 whole minutes when you give me one hour''s notice. I just wish I didn''t have to see her without DH here. I really believe she suffers from borderline personality disorder; the book Understanding the Borderline Mother describes her exactly.

I remember my friend complaining that her MIL kept offering to help her around the house but my friend was indignant that she probably just wanted to see her granddaugher. Hey, at least she offered to help. My MIL wouldn''t help if I dropped a load of laundry to fold in her lap, and I honestly don''t feel comfortable enough to leave her in the living room with Claire for 40 minutes while I''m on other floors of the house getting stuff done. Sad but true.

At least we have the most wonderful friends and other family members. Six people brought us dinner. Last night DH''s best friend called to ask what he could pick us up from the store. People we hardly know have gone to all this trouble to get gifts monogrammed with Claire''s name on them.

My main point of annoyance is that now I won''t be able to nap/pump/grade when I was planning to. Hey, maybe I can just sit right next to MIL grading . . . then we don''t have to talk and I don''t have to leave her alone with Claire!
 
Phoenix - I had a CS also, and wore maternity clothes for a while. I was worried about where thigns were hitting on the incision too. I finally got back into "normal" clothes about 2 months PP when I went back to work. Good luck with MIL, grading in the room with her sounds like a plan
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Evan had his 2 week DA today: He is now 6 lbs 14 oz. (He was 6 lbs 11 oz at birth)...so woohoo! The mix of formula/BF is working out for him. He is still latching on properly at the boob and taking in my milk for about 5 minutes at a time. He also will get a bottle of about an ounce of pumped breast milk when I finally get that much from pumping.

He''s just a really good baby (so far). Sleeps fantastic. I get about 5-6 hours each night straight through (husband takes one of the night feedings).

My husband returns to work on Monday though---so I''m sad about that.

I live in VA and we just had that horrible Nor''easter go through so we''ve been going stir crazy in the house. I can''t wait until the weather clears up so I can take him out for walks.

Unless my scale is broken--it''s saying I am at my Pre-Pregnancy weight! Granted I still have some ways to go to be at a weight I''m comfortable at and I definitely can''t wait to start walking and toning up. It''s just nice to see that number on the scale though. I''m still in my maternity clothes though---they are just too damn comfortable to get rid of right now!
 
Ebree, good luck! I can''t imagine Jacks ever giving up the swaddle at this point!

Blen, hope you get the BOB!

Dreamer, glad CIO is working so well for you!

PG, sorry about your mil. Grading sounds like a good idea. And after my c/s, foldover yoga clothes were my best friends because they didn''t irritate and were so comfy!

UGH, things are not great here. Jackson is getting more and more restless in his sleep, so even though he is still only waking up twice to eat and then going right back to sleep, I have only gotten 3 hours of sleep each night for the past 4 nights (for some reason I''m having trouble falling back asleep right after I get up to feed him, and by the time I do fall asleep, he is thrashing about.

I was actually ready to start using the Ferber method tonight to get him to sleep in his crib instead of on me, but changed my mind because of my poor puppy. 2 nights ago I was actually crying for a while at night because I was so tired, and it freaked my dog out so much that she peed on the couch (luckily on her blanket and it didn''t get through to the cushion, I just had to wash the cover of the cushion). Then today she had to have 6 teeth extracted and she''s still freaked out and whiny from that, so I don''t think she would respond well to hearing Jacks cry. I''m going to try to hold out for one more week (he''ll be 16 weeks old next friday), but I''m like a walking zombie and having trouble thinking straight right now.
 
We now have a BOB! I am super excited. I spotted another one on Craigslist, slightly more money but includes the handlebar console, rain cover, and sun cover, and I was able to get it this time. Oh, and closing on the house today went fine. Phew!

Tao, that''s great about both your and Evan''s weight! I think I live close to you now and am also getting so restless with this weather. We went to the mall yesterday just so I had somewhere to walk around. It seems like tomorrow should be better, thankfully.

PG, I still wear a pair of maternity lounge pants from time to time. A little embarassing, but they''re super comfy! Leaving Claire with a grandparent to go out to dinner is not crazy at all - it''s great to have some time to yourself. And sorry about MIL.

Sabine - poor doggy, and poor you. I hope you start getting more sleep soon.
 
Blen, yay for the BOB! Let us know how you like it.

DD, sounds like it is going well. Don''t worry, he is FINE! It''s well known that CIO is more stressful for the mom than it is for babies. He won''t think you abandoned him, as you are seeing in the mornings when he''s fine! Even people who don''t do CIO will have to let their babies cry at some point (like leaving kids in daycare) and realize that kids manage to survive without being traumatized.
 
I''ll have to keep the mall idea in my head for bad weather days!

His umbilical cord stub fell off!
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He''s growing up!
 
Just wondering if anyone else had this issue and if so did you find a solution?

Daisy is driving me bonkers at the moment. Everytime she feeds she insists on pinching my boob - and really hard, digging her nails in. I am literally covered in scratches and cuts. I keep her nails as short as I can but she really grabs hard.

I take her hand away, but she hits me when I do. I''ve tried ignoring it and gritting my teeth in the hope that she''ll get bored, I''ve tried holding her hand, covering my boob etc and so far nothing is working.

She is starting to get pretty strong - she wants to give people ''kisses'' at the moment which involves grabbing their cheeks very hard and then coming for them with a big sloppy kiss... nice! So, I don''t think it''s nastiness or aggression on her part - just that she doesn''t understand her own strength or that it hurts.
 
I would pull her off the boob, say a firm NO, and then wait a few seconds before allowing her back on. Hopefully she stops it soon-ouch!
 
Blen, yay for the BOB! FIL and his wife gave us one, but obviously it''s too soon for me to use it both in terms of my C/S recovery and Claire''s size. Looking forward to when I can, though!

Tao, yay for Evan weighing so much and you weighing so little!!!


And yay, I''m done with the stupid grading I should have finished a month ago!


My mom''s coming next week to help. I don''t like asking for help, but I''m glad she''s coming considering that half the time we talk on the phone I start crying about Claire''s feeding and how tired and frustrated I am.

Speaking of, we went to the LC today to confirm that Claire has regained her birth weight. As far as I''d been told, that was the goal, so I was expecting them to say ok, now you can ease up on the supplementing/craziness. Well, she has gained 11 ounces in 8 days since the doctor''s appointment when we found out she had gained so little and is now just above her birthweight. But apparently this isn''t good enough and we are supposed to continue on with the craziness for a "few more weeks," AND the LC said that I can only skip pumping ONE TIME A DAY. WTF????

LittleLysser, didn''t you say that you get 1/2 an ounce when you pump right after feeding? That''s what I get, but the LC said it''s supposed to be more so I probably have low supply?

I just really don''t think that''s the problem. Claire spits up a lot and has been what I would call projective vomiting just recently (because we''re forcing her to gorge herself with our ridiculous feeding schedule?), and my guess is that the weird week was from being too lax with the nighttime, trying the single-side feeding (BTW, no more green poo, so that''s good), and having a girl who seems to be a lazy/slow eater.

My sister, who always makes me feel better because she''s a member of the clergy but she likes to curse more than I do, exploded, "Well, did you tell her that was crazy and you''re not going to do it!?!?!" when I told her what the LC said. She''s going to pump tomorrow and see how much she gets under the theory that it won''t be anywhere near 1/2 an ounce to reassure me.

So I''m doing Fenugreek, oatmeal, and Guinness
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to try to help things along. Is there anything that isn''t too vile that I should try?

But really we''re just going to try to do what we can without driving ourselves crazy. Tonight for DH''s feeding time I''m going to wake up briefly to pump, partly to see how much I get when I''m skipping a feeding and partly to make sure I don''t go too long without stimulation. But we''re not giving her formula if she''s asleep or uninterested, and I''m only aiming to pump 5, maybe 6 times a day.

Pandora (and anyone else), my English friend said that across the pond they don''t worry as much about regaining your birth weight by two weeks as we do. Is that your experience?
 
Date: 11/14/2009 8:52:59 PM
Author: neatfreak
I would pull her off the boob, say a firm NO, and then wait a few seconds before allowing her back on. Hopefully she stops it soon-ouch!
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Ditto. One of my friends went so far as to place he daughter on the floor for a moment when she bit her, simply saying no didn''t cut it. hunter likes to scratch and pinch too, not just my boob but anywhere he can. I take his hand away and tell him not too and then give hims something else to touch.

CIO Night 4

Hunter ddn''t wake until 5:30! Then he made noise for about 20-30 mninutes and thne was quiet unti aboutl 6:30. I think with 10 hours straight of sleep it may be his max, so we are trying something new and letting him have a short nap at 5:30 or so, and then we will put him down at 8pm. We really don''t want him waking at 6am!

To my surprise I seem to have tonnes of milk despite not nursing for 12 hours a night.
 
Pandora I''m in your same boat. A is a biter. I tell him "no" or say "ouch" firmly and he thinks it is funny! Ugh. Not funny for me. He''s been doing it less the past few days though. I do take him off the boob if he has been nursing a while.

DD That is incredible that CIO is going so well! I keep thinking things are getting better here without needing to CIO - he will have a couple nights of only waking once or twice in 12 hours which is totally great. Then we have a night like last night where he''s up 4x. NOT OK. So I''m not sure if we are going to do CIO yet. I think maybe when we get back from visiting family in December. He will be 8 months old then. I am afraid if we do it now we''ll wind up doing it again after our trip, since travel can mess up sleep.

Phoenix I''m not a medical professional so of course I can''t give you official advice, but mom to mom, that schedule of pumping sounds exhausting and kind of over the top to keep up for a few more WEEKS. Can you get a second opinion? Maybe go in for a few more weight checks at your pediatrician this week and if all''s going well, just feed on demand? I hope you can come up with something that works for everyone. The first few weeks are just exhausting. EXHAUSTING. Thinking back I don''t know how I made it through, but I did and you will too. I promise this DOES all get easier.

Tonight my friend''s mom babysat for a few hours so we could go out for dinner. (We pay her well - but it''s wonderful to have someone who we really trust!) We really should do it more often. It is so refreshing, although I always feel kind of sad at the end of date night! I prefer to go out early and come home early, so we are getting home around the time that a night out would have just been getting started in the old days - so funny. But I''d rather pay a babysitter to watch A while he''s awake than asleep. Made me realize how much I wish we had family willing and able to babysit on a regular basis, but at least we can hire someone from time to time.
 
JUST A THOUGHT Some of the posters on this thread will be graduating up to the toddlers thread soon, there are a cluster of us with 6-9 month babies, and a bunch of new moms. I know we''ve split the parenting/preggo threads several times over the years. It seems like the toddler thread might get really crowded since it is currently where everyone ends up. I notice that there is a new preggo thread for the just barely preggos, which got me to thinking:

What if we organize the threads by "cohort"? For example, the threads could be for 2007 babies, 2008 babies, 2009 babies, 2010 babies, etc. Or even a narrower date range depending on how many regular posters there are. That way we would not have to keep splitting up the threads. The same people could stay on their thread for virtually ever from preggo through toddler and beyond. If someone felt more comfortable on a different thread, they could post there - like someone whose baby was born in early 2009 might want to post on the 2008 thread if that is who they are used to talking to.

Just wondering what you all thought. Maybe there is no need to do anything yet but just wanted to throw it out there for when it is time to split the threads again.
 
Pandora, I would pull her off, say a firm no, and then wait a few seconds before allowing her back on. If that doesn''t work then I would put her down and let her cry a few seconds. I did this to teach D not to bite when he had teeth. It worked after a few times. Hope she stops doing that soon. Ouch!

dreamer, so happy that CIO worked for you. It took us 3 bad nights of CIO too. Hooray for great sleep! Things are so much easier when baby sleeps through the night on their own.

TDM, I think splitting the threads by year would work. Maybe have a 2007/2008 since there aren''t as many of us, then a 2009, 2010, etc thread. There''s been a PS baby boom for sure. So exciting to see!
 
Pheonix I am very annoyed by your LC! I think someone trying to judge your milk output by pumping is ludicrous. LU-DI-CRUSSS! I have never gotten much from pumping, it just doesn''t stimulate my breass properly I guess. After I nurse Hunter you know how much I get? Like maybe 10ml. And on a good pumping session I get about 3oz fron both sides total. Yet I exclusively BF my larger boy for 7 months
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The *only* and I mean *only* accurate way to judge what your baby is getting is to assess her wet and poopy diapers. Input equals output! She should be having at least 6 heavy wet diapers per day (heavy is about 1/4 cupof water in a diaper if you want to see what it feels like), and then at least one nice poop. If she is producing that, if her skin is nice and pink, if her cry is nice and lusty, if she waves her arms and legs around and has some alert time each day, then I personally, in your shoes, would get a second opinion on the whole darn thing! Pardon my french. But to judge your output by the pump is stupid. With those types of gains, clearly your baby is getting enough calories. At that age they like to see at least half an oz. gained per day. You are way above that! Hunter also lost a lot of weight his first week because my milk took 7 days to come in, but as soon as he showed good gain and was no longer 10% below his birth weight I was given the go ahead to exclusively BF. Then since he continued to gain that way, all was well! So he hadn''t even regained his birth weight and I stopped supplementing. We were also told they like to see birthweight achieved by 2 weeks, but it isn''t a hard and fast rule. Anyways, I am annoyed for you and this whole situation.

So tell us, how many wet and poopy diapers?

Was Claire diagnosed with failure to thrive? That may be why they are being so silly about this whole thing. But I thought that could only be diagnosed after more time had passed...
 
Date: 11/14/2009 10:34:01 PM
Author: TanDogMom
DD That is incredible that CIO is going so well! I keep thinking things are getting better here without needing to CIO - he will have a couple nights of only waking once or twice in 12 hours which is totally great. Then we have a night like last night where he''s up 4x. NOT OK. So I''m not sure if we are going to do CIO yet. I think maybe when we get back from visiting family in December. He will be 8 months old then. I am afraid if we do it now we''ll wind up doing it again after our trip, since travel can mess up sleep.
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I was in the same position as you, and we had decided to wait until now when he is 8.5 months because of travel but also because he is eating so much solid food now that I felt more confident he got enough calories to go 12 hours without eating. He eats 3 meals a day, a large breakfast of oatmeal and fruit and egg yolk, lunch of tofu/meat and wheat germ, plus veggies, and a dinner of whatever I can scrounge up. He has such a large appetite that I knew he would probably be ok. I think if he was one of those kids who wasn''t a chow hound then I might not have felt ok about doing the CIO yet. I won''t lie, it is horrid to listen to him cry on and off for an hour, but after 3 nights he is sleeping soundly all through! And I don''t think it broke his spirit or anythig
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He seems much happier and more content than he has in months. I think waking 4x per night isn''t good for him either.

Anyways, do what you need to do for your family, but as long as he isn''t getting to worked up when you let him cry, and if it sounds like he is attempting and succeeding in self-soothing then it could be a good time to give it a go. Oh, and I think I''d also watch out for his separation anxiety. Hunter was pretty anxious when we moved, and so I didn''t want to do it then, but when he seemed like he was more confident thats when we decided to give it a go.

I hope he sleeps well tonight! He went down at 8pm so I am crossing my fingers he sleeps until 7am!
 
Thank you all - I''m going to try taking her off for longer than just the time to say NO and see if it helps!

Phoenix - Sorry but I think your LC is nuts! Daisy lost 20% of her birth weight in the first week - she literally got NOTHING to eat for nearly 3 days and then not much due to my having no milk and being stuck in hospital where they wouldn''t let me give her formula. She didn''t have a single wet diaper for FIVE days!

Once they found out on the Friday (birn on the previous Sunday) she had loads of blood-tests to check her electrolyte and sodium levels and very nearly had to go to SCBU for treatment and an IV. Instead they put her on formula - I had to give her 70ml every 3 hours.

Well, that was fine for the first couple of feedings, but then the poor kid was so stuffed that she didn''t want more and just spat it back at me so I moved to giving her 30ml every 3 hours after the fourth feed. I had to keep a written record and when I explain what was going on the neonatologist said I had done the right thing as they wanted calories in and not all over me and the floor!

As long as she had put on weight and her electrolyte levels were heading towards normal we would be allowed home on the Sunday. She did put on 50g and levels headed the right way so we were let out. The midwives then came out to see me every 2 days at home where she was weighed and they checked how I was doing. She consistently gained weight - although some days only 10 grammes which worried me, but they said it didn''t matter how much as long as it was a gain. She took over 4 weeks to regain her birth weight and that was deemed totally fine. What was important was that the fontanelle felt normal, that her colour and tone was good and that she looked as if she was ''thriving''.

I pumped to get my supply up at the beginning, but even now when I KNOW my supply is good enough to have EBF a ''75th percentile for weight'' baby for nearly 5 out of 6 months, I struggle to get 30ml at times. They are far better at getting it than a pump - I have to sit there for 20 minutes and then some to get a decent sized bottle, whereas Daisy can take a feed that will keep her going for 3-4 hours in under five minutes.

In my mind as long as Claire is gaining weight and looks healthy then I would stop supplementing and see how things go - SHE will certainly tell you if she''s not getting enough and you can add in a formula feed till your supply is totally established, but feeding her like a veal calf till she is sick isn''t a great idea IMHO. So I would only wake her if she goes more than five hours. You will probably find that if she is allowed to be hungry that she will become a more aggressive feeder - Daisy turned into what I described as a Great White Shark... this wide-open ravenous mouth that just came for me at lightning speed!

My father''s take on the whole thing at the time was that generally a mother will be in tune enough with her baby to be the first to notice if something is wrong or if the baby isn''t thriving and so to find the level that works for you both rather than doing things to a rigid schedule. That way you will all be less stressed!
 
Date: 11/15/2009 2:17:41 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
Pheonix The *only* and I mean *only* accurate way to judge what your baby is getting is to assess her wet and poopy diapers. Input equals output! She should be having at least 6 heavy wet diapers per day (heavy is about 1/4 cupof water in a diaper if you want to see what it feels like), and then at least one nice poop.
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Well that's not the ONLY way. Another great way is to weigh Claire before a feed and then after. Then they can see how much she's getting in a feed.

I don't think any of us here know enough to know whether the pumping/feeding schedule is what's right for Claire or not. There are so many variables to the situation. BUT that being said, your LC very well may be nutso. Is there a second LC you can get a second opinion from? Or talk to your pedi or a different one? I do think it's smart to get another opinion from someone who is close to the situation.

Babies can go downhill VERY fast (I have seen it happen with a few twins in my twins group) so it really is important to monitor the situation closely if she isn't thriving. But if she's thriving now that she's gained a bit of weight back then I wouldn't worry as much.

Trust me, I understand about the exhausting Bfing/pumping schedule. I had to do it with my boys too-just take it one day at a time and know it's for a limited amount of time. You can do it!
 
PG, do you happen to know what the LC''s credentials are? If she is not an IBCLC, I would take her advice with a grain of salt. There are some nurses that take a class in breastfeeding and then are retitled LCs by the doctor''s office they work for because it sounds good if you have an LC on staff. However, unless someone is an IBCLC and has gone through the many hours of training to get credentialed, I would not take her word as gospel.

FWIW, I used to work as a breastfeeding peer counselor for WIC so I ran into this quite often. I have loads of breastfeeding books, from consumer to health care pro level, so I made sure when I gave advice that I had plenty of info to back it up.

It''s normal for a woman to be able to pump 1-3 oz. at one time -- and this is WITHOUT feeding her baby first. I''m going to assume that you have a good pump, right? Having a bad pump can make pumping awful. There are also a lot of women that simply don''t respond to any pump and yet they are able to feed their babies with no problem.

Besides fenugreek, oatmeal and beer, there are a bunch of herbs that you can add in to boost your supply. You can find loads of info here:

http://www.kellymom.com/herbal/milksupply/herbal_galactagogue.html

Realistically, though, I don''t think there''s anything that indicates that you have a low supply. If anything, the best way to boost it and get away from supplementing/pumping would be to nurse Claire more often to tell your body to make more milk. A nice thing to do is to take a "nursing holiday" -- get into your bed with the baby and don''t get out for 2 days. Do nothing besides nurse and sleep, and have your meals/drinks brought to you. Ok, so it may not be do able, but even if you can go to bed with her for an afternoon and nurse and nap, it would be beneficial.

The spitting up could be a number of things. It could just be that she needs to be burped more or that she''s simply too full. It could also be that she has some reflux going on. My older daughter had reflux, but we didn''t know about it until her pediatrician had me supplement with formula because she wasn''t gaining enough weight. From then on, she projectile vomited 1/2 of every bottle she had and ended up on Reglan. She was a pretty extreme situation, though.

BTW, I''m sorry that you have to deal with a MIL who could have BPD. I''ve read Understanding the Borderline Mother many times because it''s highly likely that SO''s ex has BPD. BPDs can really do a number on you. If you need support, this is a good place to get it:

http://forum.outofthefogsite.com/index/
 
The website says that the LCs are all internationally board certified. I saw three different ones in the hospital and have seen two at their off-site location since then for a total of four different LCs. They have contradicted each other as far as how to hold her, how often/long to feed her, how many times a day I need to pump, which breast to let her go as long as she wants on and whether to do single-side feeding, whether or not to use a syringe or a bottle for the supplementing, what types of dietary supplements I should try, etc. So that's been frustrating. I recognize that this may be more of an art than a science and that each LC is maybe only seeing a portion of the puzzle, but the last LC I saw was really setting me up to fail with her unsustainable regimen.

rockpaperscissors, so if 1-3 oz. without feeding first is normal, then 1/2 oz. after feeding is ok? BTW, one of the LCs said 10 minutes for pumping, so I always stop immediately at 10. Should I be trying to go more like 15?

I got 1.25 oz. (with a lot of spillage because I wasn't used to the spurting I'd get from pumping not after a feeding -- the girls started going before I'd even hooked up the flanges) last night when DH gave her the expressed milk from earlier, and I got 0.75 oz. after feeding this morning, so I'm thinking those numbers might be on the low end but are still normal? The 0.75 oz. was the most I've ever gotten post-feeding, so that seems positive.

I'm all for taking a nursing holiday. That's what my intuition says is the answer, not the endless cycle of using formula and then having to pump to make up for it.

ETA: I have the Medela Pump in Style Advanced (thanks Mom). As far as I have heard, that's usually considered very good for a non-hospital grade pump, right? I've worked up to the third notch, but at first I could only use the first. I also had to play around the flange size; we compared the 27 and the 30 at my consultation and the LC agreed that the 30 seemed better for me as the 27 was causing itchy redness and burst blood vessels.
 
Phoenix .75 is great! I'm sorry if I missed somewhere-but is the point of this to increase your supply or to get her to eat more?

If it's to increase your supply-just nurse and then pump. And forget about the formula. Basically you just want to stimulate as much as possible to get more milk flowing. I personally used to pump a few times a day to get more milk flowing for my twins-and I would try to pump for like 20 minutes. By pumping AFTER the milk is gone it signals to your body that more needs to be produced. Worked well for me and I only pumped like 2-3x a day just for longer periods.

If she's not eating properly/enough-have they explored WHY? Sounds like you probably have enough milk...so you might want to talk to her pedi or someone else to try and figure out why she isn't eating enough/gaining.

And has any LC weighed her before and after a feeding to see how much she's getting? That would tell you right away whether she's getting enough or not. And then you could stop worrying about your supply if she is.
 
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