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Purchase Advise Please

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neuroguy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Messages
5
Hi,

This is my first time purchasing a diamond so bear with me. I am looking to buy an engagement ring/diamond and I'm particularly looking for an ethically traded diamond. This brought me to look at diamonds from Botswana (Day's Jewelery in Maine). I found a .75 ct diamond going for 2,965.
and GIA:
Shape and Cutting Style ..................... Round Brilliant
Measurements............. ............... 5.81 - 5.84 x 3.64 mm
Carat Weight ......................... ...................... 0.75 carat
Color Grade ......................... ......................... ............ H
Clarity Grade.................... ......................... .............. SI1
Cut Grade ......................... ......................... Very Good
Clarity Characteristics ......................... ... Twinning Wisp
Finish
Polish ......................... ......................... ........ Excellent
Symmetry ......................... ......................... ... Excellent
Fluorescence ......................... ......................... ...... None

also



I was thinking of getting a better diamond clarity wise but if this rock is eye clean I might jump on it. Any thoughts? Is this a reasonable price? Does anyone have any experience with Day's Jewelery or Botswana Diamonds?

GCAL202240032.jpg
 
I am not familiar with that jeweler. We ordinarily recommend GIA and AGS as the most reputable grading labs. There are vendors here who only deal with ethically traded diamonds. I would feel confident with WhiteFlash and Brian Gavin because they actually have their own stones cut and know the source of their stones. I would also not be concerned about this with Good Old Gold.

We generally recommend cut grades of excellent with GIA or ideal with AGS. But in order to give opinions on a stone, we'd need all the stone measurements including crown and pavilion angles, table, and depth.
 
diamondseeker2006|1303315804|2900945 said:
I am not familiar with that jeweler. We ordinarily recommend GIA and AGS as the most reputable grading labs. There are vendors here who only deal with ethically traded diamonds. I would feel confident with WhiteFlash and Brian Gavin because they actually have their own stones cut and know the source of their stones. I would also not be concerned about this with Good Old Gold.

We generally recommend cut grades of excellent with GIA or ideal with AGS. But in order to give opinions on a stone, we'd need all the stone measurements including crown and pavilion angles, table, and depth.
Click to expand...

Ditto this. I am not crazy about stones with reports other than GIA and AGS because (for the most part) I think they are intended to mislead consumers.
 
Thanks for the replies. There is a GIA report associated with the diamond:

GIA.jpg
 
I think this stone has GIA and GCAL report?
 
Yes, I realized that after rereading his post. That stone has a very thin girdle which is dangerous because it could more easily be chipped. Stick with GIA Excellent cut as it will not allow a very thin girdle.
 
Ah ok. I am not familiar with GCal...

The cut is ok. I guess it depends on your priorities and how important the Botswana source is to you. As mentioned, other vendors also sell ethical diamonds (to a point, you can never be 100% sure in my opinion).
 
Hmmm.. a lot to think about. I was a bit unsure about the GCAL report myself so I emailed them. It seems that they are coordinating with the miners and cutters in Botswana, seems pretty neat. I agree it seems odd that GCAL also gave this diamond such high certifications, conflict of intersts perhaps? But the GIA report didn't seeem too far off. How significant a drop from excellent is very good in
the cut grade?

Like Dreamer_D says, priorities are important and I think that finding a diamond that has a more substantial paper trail is important to me. I like the idea that my money is not just going towards the diamond companies but also to the people who live in Botswana due to their more progressive governmental policies and agreements. So I don't mind paying a bit of a premium I suppose, but I also don't want to me taken advantage of because of my wanting a more "ethical" diamond. Stone-Cold11, when you say it's "not up there" in comparison to what in the same price range? Also any recomendations beyond what has already been stated regarding venders would be apprecaiated.
Thanks!
 
From my experience, there is a noticable difference between VG and a top performing EX when it comes to optics (assuming the VG cut grade is not due to polish or symmetry or some other non-issue like that).

If you want a paper trail, then go find one! But try for a GIA Ex stone to maximize the odds you get a really good cut.

PS: I think Stone referred to cut quality when he said its "not up there".
 
So I've researched a bit more into this whole cut things, particularly regarding this diamond and I am a bit confused. It seems that the only reason this diamond did not receive and Ex cut grade from GIA was due to the girdle thickness, too thin. I would imagine that girdle thickness plays less of a role in light reflection than virtually any other cut factor and is more a durability issues.

So if this is an otherwise GIA Ex cut why two comments saying "its not up there" and "its an ok cut"? Am I missing something? I am a complete novice here so I'd love some sort of explanation for the less than luke warm opinion. Is it just that the label VG has a stigma or is the girdle thickness a bigger factor than I'm giving it credit? Or is the GIA grading not that informative at all and the proportions just are not so hot? Please enlighten me! Thanks!
 
neuroguy|1303446784|2902426 said:
So I've researched a bit more into this whole cut things, particularly regarding this diamond and I am a bit confused. It seems that the only reason this diamond did not receive and Ex cut grade from GIA was due to the girdle thickness, too thin. I would imagine that girdle thickness plays less of a role in light reflection than virtually any other cut factor and is more a durability issues.

So if this is an otherwise GIA Ex cut why two comments saying "its not up there" and "its an ok cut"? Am I missing something? I am a complete novice here so I'd love some sort of explanation for the less than luke warm opinion. Is it just that the label VG has a stigma or is the girdle thickness a bigger factor than I'm giving it credit? Or is the GIA grading not that informative at all and the proportions just are not so hot? Please enlighten me! Thanks!
Click to expand...

We are cut nut/snobs here, and for many of us, GIA has a too wide range of acceptable proportions that will fall into the Ex category. Some GIA Ex acceptable proportions are not the top-of-the-top. The diamond you are considering is one such stone. Meets GIAs criteria for Ex cut grade, but does not meet ours ;)) Likely would not meet the criteria for top cut quality with AGS either, which is sort of a gold standard as far as cut goes. So that is what we are saying. You could find a better proportioned stone. Whether you want to, or care about having the best-of-the-best proportions, that is up to you. For most consumers, a diamond that would fall in the GIA Ex category would be just fine, more than fine, great! It is better cut than the vast majority of diamonds out there. So from a generalist perspective the cut is excellent. But you must have known that since it is a GIA VG (Ex by proportions), and GIA is a very reputable lab :rodent: When you come asking us about the cut, we are not going to give you a generalist answer because we are not the general public in terms of our diamond cut tastes. Hope that helps clarify things.

The girdle is a whole separate issue. It is an issue of durability of the diamond. I am not sure I like the idea of a very thin girdle because I know how diamonds get knocked around in daily wear. I have seen friends' stones with chipped girdles. Combined with the fact that you *could* find a better cut, that makes me think looking more is worth the effort.
 
My not up there comment is based on the GCAL report. Basically GCAL is saying it is an Ex in Brilliance when in fact by their only grading scale it is only a VG at best.

You want to pay for something that is not as stated, it is your decision and your money.
 
Hey Dreamer, I appreciate the feedback. I absolutely want a non-"generalist" opinion and it's why I posted on this forum! You have to admit though that comments like "its just ok" are about the most "generalist" answer type one can give. You mention "the best of proportions" well in your non-generalist opinion what are the best proportions? =) If its not up to your standard that's fine, but just define your standard. Trust me I didn't expect anyone on this forum to start raving about what a great diamond this is, I have no doubt that most on this forum have much higher tastes :lol: but that's why I came here for smart critical remarks.

Stone Cold, I'm not sure where you are getting the discrepancy between the two brilliance ratings. Are you just comparing the two images in the pdf files? You can't really do that because they aren't necessarily the same resolution and even if they are that's not the test. They most likely use a standardized measurement of percent of total light passing through, essentially a spectrometer me thinks. Now if your saying they are just flat out lying, well fair enough.

Slg47, thanks for the tip and I've been messing around the HCA tool and its been helpful.
 
Yap, I do not trust GCAL. They are vastly inconsistent with their brilliance analysis matrix, probably conflict of interest. If you think the analysis is good enough for Ex, that is up to you, from what I see it is at best a VG grade, or as they defined it, less than 93% light return. As I said, it is your money.

Another Botswana thread where I compiled some other so called Ex brilliance grade of GCAL.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-well-cut-are-botswana-diamonds.142200/
 
For me personally, the very thin girdle alone would rule it out. I start with GIA excellent cut and then narrow things down at that point.

Here are the parameters I generally look for and the majority of Hearts and Arrows Ideal cut stones fall into:

table: 54-57

depth 60.0-62.0 (but up to 62.3 is ok. You don't want too much weight in the depth or the stone may have a smaller diameter)

crown angle: 34-35

pavilion angle: 40.6-41.0

Girdle: thin, medium, slightly thick

When buying sight unseen, it helps to have "safe" parameters with which to narrow down acceptable stones. If one went to WhiteFlash, Good Old Gold, or another vendor who specializes in well cut stones, they could look at several stones and choose which they prefer with their eyes. But those of us buying from a distance can be assured of getting a beautiful, well-cut stone by being sticking to the stones that we know will be great by the numbers and other information we may access such as idealscope or ASET.
 
I don't know if that price you were talking about was with tax or without, but I just thought I would throw this diamond out at you becasue it really looks like a dandy. It is $325 more, it is bigger and two clarity grades better it is a color grade lower, but I don't think you will notice the difference from an H to an I. I tell you if I didn't have a diamond already I would snatch it up! And don't forget if you do order from james allen tell them you are a member of pricescope and they will give you a discount :naughty:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1346480.asp


HCA score of 0.80 fabulous!


Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 0.8 - Excellent
within TIC range
 
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