Question about certification vs verification

[colorluvr]

I have recently purchased some gemstones from someone, and I need to have them "verified", and I am willing to send them to AGL if necessary, but if a "verbal" verification from a lab run by a GIA (GG) will do, I would rather not spend the money for an AGL report. I do not plan on reselling these - they are for my personal collection or to set.

This is my understanding and I would appreciate any and all suggestions / comments.

Spinels: A competent GIA (GG) should be able to verify an earth mined spinel without having to get a cert. (yes there are inclusions that make me "think" that they are not lab stones).

Unheated color change sapphire: a GG should be able to verify if the stone is unheated... if it shows signs of heat treatment, then it will need to go for an AGL report.

Unheated/untreated color change garnet: a GG should be able to verify if the stone is a CC garnet and if it is heated or treated?

One more question if you don't mind..... what does an AGL report cost to verify that a heated sapphire has no other treatments (BE)? I don't need to know origin or value... I think what I need is a gem brief.

thanks so much for your help.... BTW, the verbal by the GG costs $20 per stone.

 

[T L]

I have recently purchased some gemstones from someone, and I need to have them "verified", and I am willing to send them to AGL if necessary, but if a "verbal" verification from a lab run by a GIA (GG) will do, I would rather not spend the money for an AGL report. I do not plan on reselling these - they are for my personal collection or to set.

This is my understanding and I would appreciate any and all suggestions / comments.

Spinels: A competent GIA (GG) should be able to verify an earth mined spinel without having to get a cert. (yes there are inclusions that make me "think" that they are not lab stones).

Unheated color change sapphire: a GG should be able to verify if the stone is unheated... if it shows signs of heat treatment, then it will need to go for an AGL report.

Unheated/untreated color change garnet: a GG should be able to verify if the stone is a CC garnet and if it is heated or treated?

One more question if you don't mind..... what does an AGL report cost to verify that a heated sapphire has no other treatments (BE)? I don't need to know origin or value... I think what I need is a gem brief.

thanks so much for you help.... BTW, the verbal by the GG costs $20 per stone.

Last I checked, it would be $100 in addition to the general AGL lab report to perform additional testing on a sapphire to determine additional treatment other than just heating.

I think a lab report is worth the price paid for peace of mind. It also gives some value to the piece for the future (your heirs for example). It is the one piece of documentation that is really trusted by gem collectors, and a verbal is not something you can retain.

 

[colorluvr]

Last I checked, it would be $100 in addition to the general AGL lab report to perform additional testing on a sapphire to determine additional treatment other than just heating.

I think a lab report is worth the price paid for peace of mind. It also gives some value to the piece for the future (your heirs for example). It is the one piece of documentation that is really trusted by gem collectors, and a verbal is not something you can retain.

TL, thank you for your response. I totally understand the value of the AGL report, but right now pennies are tight and I would just like to know what I have, (and if the person I purchased these stones from knows what THEY have) with the idea in mind that I may get the AGL on all of the stones in the future, so to repeat part of my original question:

A GIA GG (with a lab) should be able to tell if a CC sapphire and/or a CC garnet is untreated/unheated? thanks...

 

[Michael_E]

A GIA GG (with a lab) should be able to tell if a CC sapphire and/or a CC garnet is untreated/unheated? thanks...

They would be able to tell, if there are inclusions in the stone which would be affected by heat that have not been affected. If there are no inclusions of that sort in the stones, then it could be difficult to make any firm conclusion. This uncertainty can also occur in a lab when there are no inclusions, no diffusion and no change in spectra. In effect a heated stone could appear to be unheated, (though that's pretty unlikely as all natural stones tend to have some inclusions or other changes that occur with intense heating which serve as indicators). Just an afterthought, the heat of re-tipping a sapphire can be enough to change some inclusions in the sapphire, (or even fracture the stone). If you've got a unheated and valuable sapphire in a setting needing work, make sure to discuss the risks of that work with your jeweler. It's often better to be safe and pay more to remove the stone while doing the work and then resetting it once the work is complete.

 

[colorluvr]

Thanks for the info Michael.

 

[LD]

A verbal appraisal without tests may NOT be correct or accurate. You are reliant on the person's ability to correctly ID and run some basic tests. Do you remember the poster who kept taking his gemstones to an appraiser who kept telling him he had the best stones ever and then when they went for a lab report they absolutely weren't? That's the danger.

So if you want absolute proof of what you have then this isn't the route to go. I understand the concern about the cost of a report but are you getting them because they were expensive purchases and you may return them if they're not what they're supposed to be OR have you bought from a reputable seller and want to have peace of mind?

Just bear in mind there are some superb synthetics out there and some treatments that are really not detectable without extensive testing.

Is there any chance (if you're not in a hurry) that you send them for a lab report when you can afford it and perhaps one at a time?

 

[colorluvr]

So if you want absolute proof of what you have then this isn't the route to go. I understand the concern about the cost of a report but are you getting them because they were expensive purchases and you may return them if they're not what they're supposed to be OR have you bought from a reputable seller and want to have peace of mind?

Actually both, they were expensive purchases (well, expensive is subjective, but to me they were expensive) and yes, I would return them if they weren't what they are supposed to be AND the seller is reputable (I believe), but I want to have peace of mind, so I guess that answers my question, I'd probably be wasting my time and money to just get a verbal.

Thanks for the response LD.