Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please help!

[RTFrog]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

Yup, it's just the way it is sometimes. I've had camera phone pictures also turn out too crisp. The definition and elements sometimes make for a difficult shot. The Times covers and other photographic award-winning shots all have very set conditions that maximize success.

Post processing the shadows, highlights, and definition or sharpness should only take a few seconds. It's all about trying to let the hardware capture exactly what the eye sees. No more, no less. It's not about photoshopping and making a dud look like a star. Fortunately, you are practicing on anything but a dud.

I would suggest playing around with the settings a bit, or the image editor of your choice. Maybe try Camera+ for more options, it should only be 1 or 2 dollars for the app.

I'm not advocating for Photoshop and adjusting colors to be fake. Software options help match what the camera misses when you take a picture. Figuring it all out takes some time, but there's definitely ways to go about it - and hopefully it will be fun and not frustrating.

 

[chrono]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

What settings should I look into? I admit to knowing very little about my phone camera.

 

[RTFrog]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

Chrono, I used your icon as an example.

Original

Quick Edit


The settings on the Camera app cannot be changed. The Camera+ one allows some more customization.

I would use the Shadows, Highlights, and Definition or Sharpness settings in an image editor - such as Aperture. That's what I did for the edits.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

Chrono, I used your icon as an example.

Original

Quick Edit


The settings on the Camera app cannot be changed. The Camera+ one allows some more customization.

I would use the Shadows, Highlights, and Definition or Sharpness settings in an image editor - such as Aperture. That's what I did for the edits.

Okay, call me crazy here, but what makes you say the second pic is better than the first? Its not a snide question - I very much would like to understand, as when I look at it, I see a fake crystalline quality to the pic, like its overly dramatic, or has been photoshopped, lol! I'd love to hear what others think? Perhaps its a stylistic preference? I really don't know. I do know this: I am not knocking your photos at all RTF, as I think yours are some of my new faves for sure.

 

[RTFrog]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

Hi Minous: Nothing makes me think that the second picture is better than the first, just showing trying to show the differences when just adjusting shadows and definition. Seeing something fake and cystalline is always the problem, and without seeing the stone in person - I cannot tell what settings should be. The last thing I want to do is make a picture synthetic looking. Almost all of the edits could be addressed with lighting without resorting to software.

What I like about the edited picture is the more clear facets. The reflection not being as dark, and trying to get a stronger instead of softer focus on the stone. The edits are kinda lossy and compressed due to the original image being very tiny, it's just a thumbnail at ~10k. Usually images are much larger and do not feel so - meh, for a lack of a better term. Plus all cameras take pictures differently...

The original picture does a pretty nice job on most accounts, but could use a little help. In terms of showing the color, its pretty great. Just wanted to remove a little black undertone or darkness.

Too often, certain photos are very photoshopped - and the gems that are delivered are much different from what is advertised. I have one stone that is completely different from the photos advertised - and I'm pretty... demanding by looking at stones, especially under the zoom of a camera or nearby microscope lens. I'm all for making images look like they are supposed to, and avoiding fakery.

And yes, every one has a stylistic preference to take pictures from to

With yours and others comments, I'm trying to combine art with gemstones - or make gem art... I appreciate all feedback and suggestions for anything that can/could be tried!

 

[chrono]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

This is the original photograph, professionally taken by Whiteflash. I have not compressed or cropped or resized it but I am sure WF compressed it before emailing me the picture.

 

[RTFrog]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

The photo already has some post processing effects - so it changes things. The photo is also 155kb, normal originals are about 10+mb's - so again, makes things more difficult. Thanks Chrono for posting the original picture!

I tried anyways, one with just sharpness/definition and the other with definition, shadows, and highlights. Again, in the eye of the beholder.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

Hi Minous: Nothing makes me think that the second picture is better than the first, just showing trying to show the differences when just adjusting shadows and definition. Seeing something fake and cystalline is always the problem, and without seeing the stone in person - I cannot tell what settings should be. The last thing I want to do is make a picture synthetic looking. Almost all of the edits could be addressed with lighting without resorting to software.

What I like about the edited picture is the more clear facets. The reflection not being as dark, and trying to get a stronger instead of softer focus on the stone. The edits are kinda lossy and compressed due to the original image being very tiny, it's just a thumbnail at ~10k. Usually images are much larger and do not feel so - meh, for a lack of a better term. Plus all cameras take pictures differently...

The original picture does a pretty nice job on most accounts, but could use a little help. In terms of showing the color, its pretty great. Just wanted to remove a little black undertone or darkness.

Too often, certain photos are very photoshopped - and the gems that are delivered are much different from what is advertised. I have one stone that is completely different from the photos advertised - and I'm pretty... demanding by looking at stones, especially under the zoom of a camera or nearby microscope lens. I'm all for making images look like they are supposed to, and avoiding fakery.

And yes, every one has a stylistic preference to take pictures from to

With yours and others comments, I'm trying to combine art with gemstones - or make gem art... I appreciate all feedback and suggestions for anything that can/could be tried!

So incredibly helpful, all of this! I hope you don't mind me asking questions on your thread, Chrono!

 

[RTFrog]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

Found a red spinel, from a set of two from Brad, to show an example of lighting, backgrounds, unedited, and edited. This stone is not anywhere close to Chrono's, but I'm trying to show a comparison. This can be especially useful when considering how the vendors take their pictures, whether they are professionals or amateurs. Background colors, reflections, etc. are all very important.

This is a reason why some Ebay and other vendors may claim they do not photoshop pictures - because they use improper settings to get the desired effect out of their products. Not lying, but highly unethical, and unscrupulous. Sometimes the seller is trying to do the best they can with what they have. Taking a picture with a $5k camera is going to turn out differently from a $100 one. But, almost all of these settings can be mimicked or set incorrectly - whether by the camera hardware or the software used. Doctored pictures or settings remind me of stones with treatments. If only there was a lab to send the pictures to, too. As always, a matter of perspective

I took these quickly and with the intent only to show the differences with all of the considered elements. For educational use only.

First set - straight from the camera:









Second set - with only definition, highlights, and shadows touched:

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

Yup, one can do a lot to manipulate the appearance of photos and the subject matter.

 

[chrono]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

Minou,
Ask away. We all learn nothing without asking questions.

I rather like the first picture with the enhanced sharpness but think the other 2 pictures look overtweaked, especially the 3rd picture. It looks like one of those unscrupulous eBay stones.

RTF,
Since we are still on topic about photography, can you explain how to spot picture manupulation? By this, I mean deliberate manipulation with the intent to deceive. How can I tell that improper settings were used and that the stone is unlikely to look as pictured when in hand?

 

[RTFrog]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

Hi Chrono,

This is the million dollar question. Everyone has their own spider sense about what is or isn't manipulated, especially when dealing with reputable dealers/vendors etc. If the backgrounds are varying in color, when they look like they should be a solid color, that is sometimes a giveaway. Other times, light blasts the facets, or someone is clearly messing around with photoshop/image editors due to unrealistic colors being created. If the photos look too good to be true, and the price reflects that... well something is usually going on. If the vendor takes great pictures, and it matches the prices and the material, then they are fortunate to be representing the materials correctly.

Would be nice to have a device or solution to easily tell if the image has been manipulated. Yes, there are image editors out there and technologies that show when items have been photoshopped in and out. Just for fun, I tried taking a couple gemstone pictures and putting them into them, and well... the pictures came up as manipulated even when I know they were not. Took some from this board too just to see, and again, the results showed manipulation. Gemstones are a bit different. I'm looking for alternative solutions to go - aha, that's a photoshopped picture. The problem again is similar to the very few labs that can test for all sorts of tricks. Images, light, and everything else... coupled with unlimited tech possibilities pose quite a problem.

The problem is, some vendors - and not just on ebay, but major vendors and catalog shots - are overly saturated or printed in a way to make things look stunning. Too often, the colors are muted or somehow mutated with enhancements, to make an unearthly tone. So it's not just ebay, and it is mainly places trying to use altered lighting or other effects to make their jewelry or stones stand out far more.

Here are a couple, including an active ebay auction, and a couple pairs of earrings from a major supplier, that I think show some trickery.

 

[RTFrog]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

Tried again - with photoshop this time and some pro level filters, to only accent your stone without making it look unscrupulous.

 

[chrono]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

I hope we haven't scared off other readers but I find this thread very educational. Can you please explain why you suspect those pictures to be tampered with. I can guess two of them but am stumped by the rest. And thank you for sharpening up my picture.

 

[emmmme]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

I'm still following along

All except the blue sapphire (?) look doctored to me. I find it's really hard to tell with gemstones. When you work a lot with photos, it's easy to recognize a kind of "artificiality" in pictures, especially with contrast and exposure (as opposed to colour, which is a whole other beast and is more subjective). Because of their faceting, gemstones produce a lot of contrast and can seem over-exposed even when they're not.

Aside from the potential images being altered (for better or worse) and/or taken inaccurately (purposefully or not), I think it can be difficult to interpret photographs of gemstones - our imaginations fill in a lot of information.

 

[RTFrog]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

Hi Chrono: I hope your picture is closer to what you see. That will be my last try based on provided comments so far.

I'm including blue sapphire commentary below. In regards to the other pictures, the "diamond" is more of an abstract piece of artwork, completely washed out and anything but real. The subject's nail color is a good comparison. The details besides the main object in the photo look - weird. Some of the facet's reflections are either too bleached out or have been cleared. This could be lightning, but when something like that looks removed, it's usually touched up at the least.

The orange on black background will be similar to the discussion on the blue sapphire. It sorta looks like molten lava, uncooled. I would fear for my fingers safety trying to wear it, as is.

The pendant's - the light looks funky. Plus catalogs often just take one picture of the setting then shop the stones pictures in. I would guess from various aspects of the picture that this is exactly what the company did. Unless they have many lights all reflecting in different angles (which some companies do) then there is a lack of being convinced by the photo. I also suspect the saturation has been tweaked.

Hi Emmmme: Thank you for explaining - interpretation is exactly what we see. I think interpretation is a better word than perspective. Combine interpretation with perspective, and well.. there results are endless.

Here's how I interpreted the blue sapphire. I did this based on seeing a general blue hue to the entire picture. The background was supposed to be silver/grayish. It just did not look right. Then there's the issue with the camera watermark. It again looked blue to me. So I made that match the default watermark, and here's the result.

Original

Interpreted


Even in that interpreted photo, that's how the stone would look blasted by overhead and super bright/fluorescent lighting.

 

[chrono]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

RTF,
I love the cripsness and all the effort you have put in to helping my spinel look as true as possible. Unfortunately, the glow has been lost but that's all right. Gemstone photography will always continue to challenge us. The stone is also sometimes redder and sometimes pinker. That's the fun of spinels, isn't it, the shiftiness?

Wow, I would never have expected the dark blue sapphire picture to be touched up. I'd forgotten all about the matching / similar background colour to the stone. Looking at the watermark is a great idea! The orange is a given because it looks too "molten".

 

[RTFrog]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

Hi Chrono,

I can try and make the picture glow a bit more, but it would be better to have the full one. Is there any way that WF could send you the original and large file?

There's lots of different photo edits and tricks that occur. I'm sure there are lots of them out there, and many that members of this forum have experienced. Maybe a thread can be started about them - such as - do you see what I see? Gemstone misrepresentations. Just wondering out loud.

 

[kenny]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

Kenny, Have you tried any type / brand of wax? I wonder how clearly the wax will show up in the macro pictures.

Chrono, sorry it took me so long to answer.
I finally found my wax in our very disorganized house.

It grips really strongly, so a dot of it can be small enough to hide behind the bottom of the ring.
Note; it may discolor some materials, but it has not discolored titanium or platinum for me.

I have no idea where I bought it.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

You only need that tiny of a bit?

 

[kenny]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

You only need that tiny of a bit?

Depends on the weight of the ring and the angle.
If the ring is sticking straight up you need almost none.

 

[T L]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

Kenny, Have you tried any type / brand of wax? I wonder how clearly the wax will show up in the macro pictures.

Chrono, sorry it took me so long to answer.
I finally found my wax in our very disorganized house.

It grips really strongly, so a dot of it can be small enough to hide behind the bottom of the ring.
Note; it may discolor some materials, but it has not discolored titanium or platinum for me.

I have no idea where I bought it.

I think you can buy that wax from hobby shops, like hobby lobby, or places that sell crafts.

 

[chrono]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

RTF,
Sorry I didn't see your response earlier. It's been several years since WF took that picture so I am doubtful they still have the original file. I like your suggestion of "do you see what I see". A great way for newbies and oldies alike in learning to navigate the online gemstone buying waters.

Kenny,
I appreciate your coming back with the wax recommendation. Wow, such a miniscule amount is used. If it is that tacky, is it easily removed once I'm done using it?

 

[T L]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

RTF,
Sorry I didn't see your response earlier. It's been several years since WF took that picture so I am doubtful they still have the original file. I like your suggestion of "do you see what I see". A great way for newbies and oldies alike in learning to navigate the online gemstone buying waters.

Kenny,
I appreciate your coming back with the wax recommendation. Wow, such a miniscule amount is used. If it is that tacky, is it easily removed once I'm done using it?

Chrono,
I've used that wax before. I think I got it at a doll house supply store, but I don't remember. It's awesome, and doesn't leave residue. It's kind of like playdough, but more malleable, and it doesn't dry out.

 

[chrono]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

And it's strong too?

 

[T L]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

And it's strong too?

Well, it's not superglue, but it's so malleable, that a little can hold up a ring if you place it in there. Rings are not enormous heavy objects though, although a top heavy ring might fall over, so you might need to use a little more in that case.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

Too bad we don't all live close together so we could pool a good setup, camera, tripod, and the wax.

 

[chrono]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

If we all lived close enough, there's no need to get anything at all. I'll just give Kenny or RTF a call, then drive over to his place for a gemstone photography session.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

If we all lived close enough, there's no need to get anything at all. I'll just give Kenny or RTF a call, then drive over to his place for a gemstone photography session.

Kenny needs to make house calls, that's all there is to it.

 

[kenny]

Re: Question about Gemstone (flower) Photography. Please he

Kenny, I appreciate your coming back with the wax recommendation. Wow, such a miniscule amount is used. If it is that tacky, is it easily removed once I'm done using it?

It was easy for me to remove it from my metal tension settings.
If someone had a full eternity ring, or one with pave all the way around the ring, I wonder if it would require steam to remove it from the melee.
I don't know.