Questions for PSers who've sent stones to Leon

[missydebby]

Missydebby,
Please do not take the above personally. I think others are responding to my account out of surprise. As before, I have never posted a single criticism of him till now. Even though there are dissatisfied customers, there are satisfied ones. I sincerely hope that your dealings with LM continue to be pleasing.

Love ya, Harriet. Thanks.

 

[Aoife]

Missydebby, please don't feel as though my comments were intended as what felt like a "pile-on." I was just genuinely concerned and surprised by the level of disrespect exhibited towards Harriet, especially since she had been such a happy repeat client.

It does appear to me that clients who are happy to defer to LM's taste and choices do better with him in the long run, but as far as I am concerned, that in no way implies anything personal about those clients. People are just different. I offer as examples my two daughters, both of whom were married in the last four years, and could each serve as poster children for the "micro-manage every detail" or, conversely, the "Sure, whatever, go-with-the-flow" camps. We found very quickly that vendors who got along with Daughter A had Issues with Daughter B's style. With the exception of the wedding planner (who they both adored) and the cake vendor, they did not end up using the same vendors. It's all about personal style...and interpersonal style, too. That's exactly why it's so helpful to read the good, bad and indifferent about vendors on PS.

 

[missydebby]

Missydebby,
Please do not take the above personally. I think others are responding to my account out of surprise. As before, I have never posted a single criticism of him till now. Even though there are dissatisfied customers, there are satisfied ones. I sincerely hope that your dealings with LM continue to be pleasing.

well, not from you, but it feels a little personal. But I guess that's how it must have also felt for you and why you didn't post earlier about what had happened. I knew i shouldn't have chimed in again. Thanks for your ind thoughts and again thanks for having the gumption to tell your story. Much love to you H

 

[missydebby]

Missydebby, please don't feel as though my comments were intended as what felt like a "pile-on." I was just genuinely concerned and surprised by the level of disrespect exhibited towards Harriet, especially since she had been such a happy repeat client.

It does appear to me that clients who are happy to defer to LM's taste and choices do better with him in the long run, but as far as I am concerned, that in no way implies anything personal about those clients. People are just different. I offer as examples my two daughters, both of whom were married in the last four years, and could each serve as poster children for the "micro-manage every detail" or, conversely, the "Sure, whatever, go-with-the-flow" camps. We found very quickly that vendors who got along with Daughter A had Issues with Daughter B's style. With the exception of the wedding planner (who they both adored) and the cake vendor, they did not end up using the same vendors. It's all about personal style...and interpersonal style, too. That's exactly why it's so helpful to read the good, bad and indifferent about vendors on PS.

I hear ya. Just got a general feeling, but I could have been wrong. Anyhow, after my last rant at CCL, I'm gonna call this quits. See you in the other thread, my dears.

 

[Imdanny]

From Imdanny:
Amethyste, do you still have your stunning ruby ring? Have you told us/ are you able to tell us who made it? It made an impression on me as much as Leon's pieces have.

I do actually, Imdanny ! His name is Steven Kirsh and you can see his work on: www.timelessluxury.net
He is also located in NYC I chuckled when I first saw his website, cause it says "The Art of Pave" while Leon's is "The Art of Platinum". I never had the courage to ask him if they are somewhat "Rivals" ( if he worked for him and couldn't take it anymore and decided to go on his own... ) but his pave work is impeccable!

It's ok to post this right?

'

Thanks!

 

[Dancing Fire]

So really without knowing their cost price you don't know how fair the deal is and persistant praise of their pricing without concrete proof seems to be misleading.

$6800 for that ring is not a steal but it may be a competitive price. That oval may be be sold to you at a better margin than other dealers, but on the other hand maybe the oval cost them $1500 the sides $200 and they are charging you $5100 for the setting. We just don't know so I wouldn't be chearleading them as being a bargain, the truth may surprise you.

agree 101%...very tricky to price colored stones,no Rap sheet to follow or any other pricing guide line.

 

[slg47]

From Imdanny:
Amethyste, do you still have your stunning ruby ring? Have you told us/ are you able to tell us who made it? It made an impression on me as much as Leon's pieces have.

I do actually, Imdanny ! His name is Steven Kirsh and you can see his work on: www.timelessluxury.net
He is also located in NYC I chuckled when I first saw his website, cause it says "The Art of Pave" while Leon's is "The Art of Platinum". I never had the courage to ask him if they are somewhat "Rivals" ( if he worked for him and couldn't take it anymore and decided to go on his own... ) but his pave work is impeccable!

It's ok to post this right?

'

Thanks!

his pieces are beautiful!

 

[arjunajane]

Hi, just want to chime back in that it's sounding like there's a massive pile on going on. Sparkles, I love you, but I have to say again that there has been both good and bad experiences.

Please understand - I am not discounting Harriet's or Boom's ordeals. But please, also do not discount mine or Mrs. Flintstones.

I am not spending like Mrs. Flintstone. Hardly. My engagement ring was 9k and my new project is gonna be round 7k. And Leon and Perry have treated me also with the utmost respect and care. And I wasn't being just a serf either, in thrall of the master. I went on a couple of intense wild goose chases with my center stone and design with this current project. Perry sourced me many a beautiful option and outrageously good prices. (BTW, it's a fancy colored center diamond, and the prices for those are waaaay less in the direct sunlight as the prices up can look up between vendors of white diamonds. My center oval from Perry is $1800, and he could have easily charged me $3000 and it would have still been much lower priced than comparable stones from any of the colored diamond websites.)

As far as my time discussing things with Leon. He was a complete and total gentleman the whole time. And I don't fell like getting into the details, but during the wild goose chase of my design, he did a couple of things that went above and beyond the call. And as far as the quality of my engagement ring, it's perfect and lightens my step everyday I look at it.

Debbie,

Your 3 stone ring choice is excellent, elegant, and refined it would make for a beautiful ring.

I think for your own personal consideration and especially if you will be advising others on Leon/Perry prices you should be properly comparing an Apple to Apple which is very hard to do for that centre oval and in general for colored stones.

That centre oval is that certified? What color did it come back from GIA? Does it have Fluoro?

In general margins from highly competitive PS vendors on colorless diamonds generally range from 3 - 15% on virtual stones so a 75 - 100% markup is very rare. Its possible on colored diamonds with less comparables the markup from most vendors could be a little more but really you don't know their margins or their cost price.

Most of Leon/Perry pricing is hidden allowing them to be inconsistant, from other posters experience their prices on virtual stock are comparable to Pricescope search listings but YMMV.

The pricing on fancy colors changes so dramatically with color even within the same GIA color grade its very hard to pin down a precise value. http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_diamonds/1695.htm A Fancy Intense Yellow Green diamond comparable but the price could be 2-3X this for a whole variety of reasons.

So really without knowing their cost price you don't know how fair the deal is and persistant praise of their pricing without concrete proof seems to be misleading.

$6800 for that ring is not a steal but it may be a competitive price. That oval may be be sold to you at a better margin than other dealers, but on the other hand maybe the oval cost them $1500 the sides $200 and they are charging you $5100 for the setting. We just don't know so I wouldn't be chearleading them as being a bargain, the truth may surprise you.

cerified, GIA, got lots of quotes of certified and uncertified stones from 5 different vendors but I guess I'm just a dummy CCL, so forget it

EDIT: just go a-freekin head and try, try to find a .60 intense greenish yellow oval with strong green florescence, which is what I wanted and priced at a premium as it helps give a "regular" fancy yellow a green glow for anywhere near $1800. OK try even 3k. Go to freeken Leibish's two sites, go to Langermans, go to DBL, ask GOG, and get close. Of course, stupid non insiders like me NEVER have access to what the prices are really. Duh. But I can compare what's out there in retail from the limited suppliers available for colored stones. I loved the help that ALL of these vendors were willing to give to me. Especially Jon and David Friedlander. But on cost alone, no one was even close and Jon from GOG even said as much. Maybe they make their profit on me with the cost of the setting, but, yeah, I am going to them for the setting in the first place and have an overall budget for the project. If I can get more setting because the cost of the center stone is lower, is that lame?

And also, what vendor who sells center and side stones doesn't sell them for a profit. You act like that's new. And the profit is usually based on what they think they'll be able to ask for given market conditions and a lack of general pricing availability, not necessarily based on a percentage of what they got it for.

Oh yeah, but I can't point that out CCL, right, because then I'd be just cheerleader. CCL, sometimes, you are just so smug it kills me.

debby,
frankly I'm a little surprised at your reactions to CCL and others in the last couple pages. This is not a personal attack, and I didn't see any against you previously, either.
You are, by continued self admission, a very adamant LM cheer-leader. So be it, you have personal reasons for feeling the way you do and they are completely valid.
However, that does not mean that when Harriet or others post their negative experiences with the same vendor, it has a single thing to do with you or your threads..neither your name, nor Mrs Flintstone's were mentioned, so I am kinda confused - why take it all so personally?

I'm sorry if you don't agree, but I find the info presented in Mrs Flinstones posts very difficult to swallow as completely legit, and have expressed as much to admin. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong *shrugs*

IMVHO, If you desire to be an 'out and proud' cheerleader for one specific (admittedly controversial) vendor and sing their praises constantly on everything from workmanship to service to pricing, than you need to be prepared to read (and not take personally) complaints or dissenting opinions & experiences about said vendor, without taking those personally - or, alternatively, ignore any opinions that don't match yours. Either that, or you will have a challenging time ahead of you I think.

CCL is actually correct, pricing on fancies is a difficult game to accurately judge and nothing like comparing apples with white diamonds - no one is saying that you haven't done your research or that you are a 'dummy' consumer, but it can be difficult to take your posts about Leon and his pricing as having much objectivity, is all, considering the context.
And that's completely fine - its your threads, rave as much as you like, even if you haven't done your research!
I think the crux of CCL's advice, which you may have missed is this : "especially if you will be advising others on Leon/Perry prices you should be properly comparing an Apple to Apple ".
So, I don't know whether you have been advising others on pricing or not, but frankly I agree with the above wholeheartedly.

As always, I (and I'm sure everyone else in this thread) hope your interactions continue to be as super as they have been with this company.
However, please don't allow your own experiences to completely warp your perception into an alleged 'personal pile-on', when others are simply sharing theirs.

Frankly I'm very grateful to Harriet for not keeping these reviews silent, as that does nobody any favours.
I think any new client now is in the best position possible (since I've been familiar with PS) to be able to make a truly informed decision on whether working with LM is really for them or not. It used to be folks would not share their negative experiences with this vendor, as they would be stamped out by the ardent fans - I for one am glad that culture seems to have changed here, and don't want to see it bought back. Taking the sharing of personal stories as a perceived personal attack, is kind of the same thing - would you agree at least a little bit?

Good luck and please keep us updated in your continued projects

 

[Laila619]

Wow, missydebby, I don't think CCL deserved that.

 

[TakingthePlunge]

Not to derail this thread (although given the current arguments perhaps its in order) but within the next year I will be purchasing the diamond and setting for an engagement ring. Right now Leon is my main choice for setting. Ive heard in several threads that others can do just as well without the "tude" but I would really like to know who these people are.

Who else can get 3 rows of micropave on a 1.8mm shank, because right now Leon is the only person ive seen consistantly pull that kind of micropave off?

 

[baby nurse]

A great big thank you to everyone who has shared their Leon experiences in this thread. It's nice to hear people's enthusiasm re another PS's jewelery purchase or Leon's amazing talent, but it's just as important for people to come forward honestly with their negative experiences as well. Other than describing him as a "diva", until this thread, I'd never heard anything particularly negative said about Leon. I thought most people were happy with him and the product he delivered but now I'm wondering just what percentage of his customers are left with a bitter taste in their mouth

 

[Lula]

Not to derail this thread (although given the current arguments perhaps its in order) but within the next year I will be purchasing the diamond and setting for an engagement ring. Right now Leon is my main choice for setting. Ive heard in several threads that others can do just as well without the "tude" but I would really like to know who these people are.

Who else can get 3 rows of micropave on a 1.8mm shank, because right now Leon is the only person ive seen consistantly pull that kind of micropave off?

Do a search on PS for:
Ocean Pearlman (contact her through Wink at HPD, High Performance Diamonds)
Maytal Hannah
23rd St Jewelers

And also scroll up a few pages on this thread and look for a post by Amethyste that contains a link to a jeweler in NYC whose work looks incredibly similar to Leon's in style and craftsmanship. Leon is not the only person doing this style of micropave; it just seems like it because he's completed a lot of pieces for people on this forum.

CCL has had pieces done by both Leon and Ocean (I think) and he may be able to advise you of the similarities/differences in their work.

Just as an aside, there is a 3 row micropave band by LM for sale on another site. If I remember the details of the listing correctly, the setting needs to be sent back to LM to have 2 stones replaced. According to the listing, she's worn the ring only a few times. What's the point of having the "look" if it doesn't hold up?

 

[LaurenThePartier]

Not to derail this thread (although given the current arguments perhaps its in order) but within the next year I will be purchasing the diamond and setting for an engagement ring. Right now Leon is my main choice for setting. Ive heard in several threads that others can do just as well without the "tude" but I would really like to know who these people are.

Who else can get 3 rows of micropave on a 1.8mm shank, because right now Leon is the only person ive seen consistantly pull that kind of micropave off?

Do a search on PS for:
Ocean Pearlman (contact her through Wink at HPD, High Performance Diamonds)
Maytal Hannah
23rd St Jewelers

And also scroll up a few pages on this thread and look for a post by Amethyste that contains a link to a jeweler in NYC whose work looks incredibly similar to Leon's in style and craftsmanship. Leon is not the only person doing this style of micropave; it just seems like it because he's completed a lot of pieces for people on this forum.

CCL has had pieces done by both Leon and Ocean (I think) and he may be able to advise you of the similarities/differences in their work.

Just as an aside, there is a 3 row micropave band by LM for sale on another site. If I remember the details of the listing correctly, the setting needs to be sent back to LM to have 2 stones replaced. According to the listing, she's worn the ring only a few times. What's the point of having the "look" if it doesn't hold up?

I came in here to post this. On that same site, the same seller is also selling a 3 stone sapphire ring that needs to be sent back to Leon for stone tightening. So, it could be nominal wear and tear that caused those diamonds to fall out, or the craftsmanship wasn't particularly up to snuff.

Either way, after having seen Harriet's spectacular Tsavorite ring in person and being graciously allowed to try on her e-ring, I'm so disappointed to hear of her sour recent dealings with Leon. If there was anyone I thought would have an honest and forthright relationship with him, I thought it would be her.

I love Leon's work, I just never found him particularly responsive to my requests, so I abandoned a project I would have thought he'd have been perfect for. It's been interesting to read all of the stories in this thread.

 

[missydebby]

apologies to CCL all around for going postal. Had some other issues in my life and it leaked out here...

and also a question...

does anyone know where to get a prescription for Zanax?

 

[Amethyste]

does anyone know where to get a prescription for Zanax?

Call so Doctor to make apt.
Tell so Doctor that you went Postal on a Jewelry Board.
Unfortunately, you'll most likely be taken away in a white body Suit to an undisclosed location for experimental testing.

 

[Harriet]

Amethyste, I had no idea you were so hysterical!

 

[sillyberry]

Not to derail this thread (although given the current arguments perhaps its in order) but within the next year I will be purchasing the diamond and setting for an engagement ring. Right now Leon is my main choice for setting. Ive heard in several threads that others can do just as well without the "tude" but I would really like to know who these people are.

Who else can get 3 rows of micropave on a 1.8mm shank, because right now Leon is the only person ive seen consistantly pull that kind of micropave off?

Check out Mark Patterson. His stuff never seems to be recommended around these parts (which I must admit makes me both happy and sad), but I have a very narrow 3-sided pave band from him and I lurve it.

 

[risingsun]

I have done one project with Leon. It was a simple logo pendant made in platinum. It was made in memory of my beloved cat, Abby Lee, who passed away, after a brief illness, in April. Leon was extremely kind to me. We spoke at length about loss, both when I placed the order and after I received it. I also spoke with Rachel, who knew the circumstances of this piece. She was so excited when I received it and told me that Leon wanted it to be perfect for me. She asked if I saw the engraving on the back. I did and it said "ABBY."

I am not posting my story to dispute the difficulty that people have had with Leon. Harriet's experience is particularly unexpected. I have no explanation to offer. I just wanted to share my own situation, FWIW.

 

[rosetta]

Urgh.

i wanted a pave wedding band from Leon.

after the stories of poor workmanship (stones falling out, stones needing to tightened) i'm not so sure.

anyone know who can do the same as Leon and will ship overseas?

i will check out mark patterson, thanks sillyberry!

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Urgh.

i wanted a pave wedding band from Leon.

after the stories of poor workmanship (stones falling out, stones needing to tightened) i'm not so sure.

anyone know who can do the same as Leon and will ship overseas?

i will check out mark patterson, thanks sillyberry!

Rosetta,

With any vendor who has produced a lot of pieces especially with thin shanks or small melee (less than 1 pointers) the chances of melee falling out are always present. Since Leon sells a high volume of pieces it seems reasonable that their would be more reports of someone with melee falling out than other lower volume designers. I don't think this is necessarily a reflection of poor quality or of lowering standards. Leon pushes the envelope of delicate pieces with very thin shanks and despite the overall excellent quality pave the delicate shanks are more prone to damage and most CAD/CAM and inferior settors won't even try to design pieces as thin or delicate.

I am not by any means a Leon supporter but I do recognize his excellence in Pave work and would not be deterred by a few isolated cases requiring stone replacement.

 

[Maisie]

I wonder how helpful Leon would be if someone had to return their piece for repair. That was always something that concerned me when I was considering having him make my ring.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Do a search on PS for:
Ocean Pearlman (contact her through Wink at HPD, High Performance Diamonds)
Maytal Hannah
23rd St Jewelers

And also scroll up a few pages on this thread and look for a post by Amethyste that contains a link to a jeweler in NYC whose work looks incredibly similar to Leon's in style and craftsmanship. Leon is not the only person doing this style of micropave; it just seems like it because he's completed a lot of pieces for people on this forum.

CCL has had pieces done by both Leon and Ocean (I think) and he may be able to advise you of the similarities/differences in their work.

Despite my best efforts timing and logistics prevented my wife from owning any Leon pieces. However from a careful scrutiny of several magnified pictures I am relatively certain Ocean's pave work is comparable even to the most descriminating of consumers.
However, a piece of jewelry is more than just pave work, so I would ask for examples of comparable work if you were considering her for a project outside of her normal areas of expertise. She doesn't have the same marketing or website as Leon so its a little harder to view her past work, but she can send you pictures by e-mail.

Shown below are two of my wife's pieces showing the difference between fine quality Cad/Cam/Cast work versus Ocean's handmade work.

 

[Harriet]

CCL,
You are correct in that one should expect the odd melee or so to fall out. I was prepared for that when I commissioned my wedding band (single row pave). However, I did not bargain for the pave to be poorly set. As before, some stones are higher than others; and some overlap. Leon did stand by his word to replace the diamond that popped out. But how many times can the band handle being worked on?

 

[Maisie]

CCL,
You are correct in that one should expect the odd melee or so to fall out. I was prepared for that when I commissioned my wedding band (single row pave). However, I did not bargain for the pave to be poorly set. As before, some stones are higher than others; and some overlap. Leon did stand by his word to replace the diamond that popped out. But how many times can the band handle being worked on?

Harriet, do you think Leon didn't make this ring?

 

[CharmyPoo]

CCL,
You are correct in that one should expect the odd melee or so to fall out. I was prepared for that when I commissioned my wedding band (single row pave). However, I did not bargain for the pave to be poorly set. As before, some stones are higher than others; and some overlap. Leon did stand by his word to replace the diamond that popped out. But how many times can the band handle being worked on?

Harriet - is it just your band with the overlapping pave or do you see it with your other pieces as well? I looked at my two pieces from Leon and there are zero issues with the pave workmanship. I have also seen many closeups on here and I don't see any overlapping stones. Wondering if it is a change in workmanship lately.

 

[Harriet]

Maisie,
I don't know. Whether or not he personally made my pieces was never a concern. This is because, ultimately, they are products of one company and should be subject to the same level of quality control.

CharmyPoo,
I don't know. My only other piece with pave is the red spinel ring. I haven't been able to inspect it as it's not with me (I'm away from NY for a while).

 

[CharmyPoo]

I find that it is difficult to judge workshop until you have seen a variety of pieces in person. There are lots of jewellers that do great work but few match up to Leon's capability in terms of the lines, curves and delicacy of his pieces. Of course - he does great pave but I actually think his pave work can be matched. I have also seen a range of quality from Leon just based on pictures through PS - some pieces are beyond outstanding and others are just average.

Of the jewelers mentioned, the only one I personally feel is compareable is 23rd Street Jewelers but they are not a good option for people needing to work remotely. In fact, I dare say whoever 23rd Street Jewelers uses as their bench for some pieces (they have several) is even better than Leon. I haven't seen Mark Patternson or Steven Kirsh or Ocean's work in person so I can't compare. I would also love to work with Ocean one day since she is just so nice but I haven't seen enough of her work to make a call if she compares to "Leon's" work.

My point is - despite everything that is being said here. I still have not heard a proven jeweler that does work comperable to Leon in terms of pave, delicate, etc.

 

[Maisie]

Maisie,
I don't know. Whether or not he personally made my pieces was never a concern. This is because, ultimately, they are products of one company and should be subject to the same level of quality control.

I absolutely agree with you Harriet.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Maisie,
I don't know. Whether or not he personally made my pieces was never a concern. This is because, ultimately, they are products of one company and should be subject to the same level of quality control.

CharmyPoo,
I don't know. My only other piece with pave is the red spinel ring. I haven't been able to inspect it as it's not with me (I'm away from NY for a while).

From talking with Leon I get the impression he does very little if any work himself anymore. I agree with you and others that he is responsible for QC and what makes the situation more difficult is that he has less than stellar after sales service which is troubling even for those comfortable with "the rules of engagement".

I am still not convinced that his quality has dropped recently, but I do beleive that with any jeweler quality may vary especially for handmade pieces. What is disappointing in your case is that someone like Ocean may have more easily offered to remake the ring if you weren't satisfied whereas Leon would likely be difficult or simply refuse the request.

 

[Maisie]

Maisie,
I don't know. Whether or not he personally made my pieces was never a concern. This is because, ultimately, they are products of one company and should be subject to the same level of quality control.

CharmyPoo,
I don't know. My only other piece with pave is the red spinel ring. I haven't been able to inspect it as it's not with me (I'm away from NY for a while).

From talking with Leon I get the impression he does very little if any work himself anymore. I agree with you and others that he is responsible for QC and what makes the situation more difficult is that he has less than stellar after sales service which is troubling even for those comfortable with "the rules of engagement".

I am still not convinced that his quality has dropped recently, but I do beleive that with any jeweler quality may vary especially for handmade pieces. What is disappointing in your case is that someone like Ocean may have more easily offered to remake the ring if you weren't satisfied whereas Leon would likely be difficult or simply refuse the request.

That is exactly my concern. You know a vendor like Ocean, Whiteflash, GOG, BGD etc would help you all they could. But Leon is different. He seems to have little or no appreciation for his customers or keeping them happy.