Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Questions regarding rubies and substitute stones...

D

DiamondDeenie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
35
Hi all! I am hoping the experts on this forum might be able to help me... I am looking for a 7.5mm (approximate) round cut ruby or a stone that I can substitue for ruby (rubellite perhaps?). I have upgraded my engagement ring and have a Whiteflash 3/4 eternity diamond setting, which originally held a 1.60 ct diamond, that I would like to replace with a ruby or rubyish. I realize that I am doing this backward but the setting has sentimental value and since I'm a July baby I'd really, really like a ruby. I have a rather small budget right now since I have a few other projects - $500ish. I am more than willing to settle for something other than ruby right now since what I really want is a spectacular untreated Burma - which I know I can NOT touch with my current budget.

That being said, could someone please help guide me on what other stones I should be looking at and where I should be looking?? Also, I prefer red rubies, while those with purplish undertones are quite beautiful, it's just not my vision for this piece.

If I haven't provided enough info, please let me know. I am waaaaaay over my head when it comes to colored stones, please bear with as I am trying my best to learn.

Thank you all soooo much!!
 
So are you aiming for the substitute stone to be that perfect ruby red colour as well? If so, it'll be difficult with that budget because a pure red is a highly prized colour and thus is expensive. It might be doable if you are willing to search for quite a while.

Red spinel is the closest in colour but you'll have to watch out for colour shifts. Some will become orangish indoors. Suitable for everyday wear.
Rubellite can come quite close as well, in addition to being slightly less expensive, but is less durable than a spinel. It also has lower R.I. so will not sparkle as much. Rubellite also colour shifts, some becoming pinkish purplish outdoors and some becoming orangish indoors. Suitable for occasional wear only.
Red garnet is the least expensive of the three but has its own downsides. Most are not a pure red (shows either some orange, purple or brown) and tend to "close up" indoors. Suitable for occasional wear only.
 
I also think the shape is going to be incredibly limiting. Is there any possibility that the head of your existing ring could be changed?
 
Hi Chrono,

Thank you for responding!

I am hoping for a perfect ruby red color - I can increase my budget if need be, but since I know this is only temporary I'd like to keep the cost down as much as possible.

I am not as concerned with the stone's durability as I don't intend to wear it very often (and generally take quite good care of my pieces).

With regard to spinel, as you mention it is closest in color, what should I be looking for in terms of color shifts?? I am assuming I should be viewing the stone in all lighting or working with an honest vendor who will inform me of the changes in color in various lighting conditions...

I have seen some garnet in person, and I *think* I know what you are talking about... not really red. The few rubellites I have seen online seem rather purplish. I'm thinking spinel is my best bet??
 
Hi Upgradable,

I have thought of that as well - I am concerned that the head won't be as perfect as it is now and since I intend to eventually replace with a true ruby, I would rather not go that route right now just in case I have to change it out later.

I am willing to wait, this is definitely not something I have to do right this second. I'm good at waiting - it took me two years to find the oval diamond in my current engagement ring!

Any suggestions on where I should be looking?? And what types of questions shculd I be asking vendors??

Thanks so much for your response!!
 
How would you feel about a treated ruby? You can get the same kind of look without spending as much. Some people have strong feelings against filled rubies, but I feel as long as you know what you're getting, and it is okay for your situation, then why not? Let me look for some.
 
I am okay with a treated ruby since I know it is only temporary - I simply do not know what I am looking for and where to begin! I just thought I might be looking at considerably more $$, but if it is something that might be in my budget I am totally open to it.

I am open to any and all suggestions - thank you so much for helping me look, I really do feel like a fish out of water here!!
 
Thank you so much! I am now watching the stone you linked since it is up in a few days. So... I should not be put off by the low starting price, correct?? Do you have an idea of what a fair price for a stone like that would be??

I've purchased things, and even sold a few items, through Ebay in the past, but have always been terrified to purchase jewelry from them. I am always so jealous of the Pricescopers who manage to get a great deal. I believe I just saw a ruby ring you put together with an Ebay stone???? GORGEOUS!!!! And so very, very jealous!!!
 
I've had quite a bit of luck finding reputable vendors who sell on ebay to widen their exposure.
 
As long as you are all right with the treatment (and know how to care for it) for a temporary stone, I'd say to go for a diffused and filled ruby to get a very red sapphire for very little money.
 
So I'm guessing putting them in my ultrasonic is a no, no?? Is there someplace I can read up on how I would clean them??

Thanks to both of you for your help!!!!
 
You can place a diffused stone in an ultrasonic (if it is eye clean and otherwise untreated) but never a stone that has been filled. Actually, I would not even place a heated ruby in an ultrasonic because I don't know how well the internal structure has been healed from the flux heating. To be safe, just a light baby toothbrush scrub with warm soapy water, then rinse and wipe.
 
If you ARE looking at treated stones to use for a temporary stone until you find THE ONE...

Here is one from one of the vendors mentioned above that is 7.5mm.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-14Ct-Prec...emstones_1&hash=item2a1f847fdd#ht_5511wt_1130

Here's another 7.5mm.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Natural-Gem...emstones_1&hash=item4d03716e3a#ht_3085wt_1396

And here is a 7.5mm man-made, which seems like a good one if you are going for a temporary stone.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Synthetic-H...Gemstones_1&hash=item3a3f4605a5#ht_500wt_1081
 
The more I think about it, I quite agree with the suggestion of a synthetic ruby. It'll be easy to get that perfect red in a round shape that fits your setting for not much money. Unfortunately, we cannot discuss synthetic here so you'll have to do your own research.
 
Chrono|1343422453|3241551 said:
The more I think about it, I quite agree with the suggestion of a synthetic ruby. It'll be easy to get that perfect red in a round shape that fits your setting for not much money. Unfortunately, we cannot discuss synthetic here so you'll have to do your own research.
Click to expand...

Can we discuss lab created rubies here? I have some questions too! I was going to start a thread about all kinds of rubies so I'm glad to see this one here. :)
 
Tan has some very pretty BE-treated rubies in his stores. They aren't rounds, though, which makes it harder, but at least this gives you some more ideas of what BE can offer in terms of the look of a far more expensive stone.

I think if it were me, I'd definitely go with an enhanced ruby. I'd know that it was still a "real' (as in, came out of the earth) stone, as opposed to something fully synthetic. Lab-created could be a good option for you too, though. I've seen some lab-created rubies that were *stunning* ... but they were too stunning. I had one I returned because I felt like too much of a fraud wearing a ruby THAT red and sparkly around. It was a too-good-to-be-real situation.

Examples:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-22ct-Mind-blowing-Oval-Natural-Top-Red-Tanzania-Ruby-/250668967081?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item3a5d08e4a9

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-59ct-Extraordinary-Beautiful-AAA-Oval-Vivid-Red-Ruby-/250901759610?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item3a6ae9067a#ht_1981wt_957
 
Chrono|1343422453|3241551 said:
The more I think about it, I quite agree with the suggestion of a synthetic ruby. It'll be easy to get that perfect red in a round shape that fits your setting for not much money. Unfortunately, we cannot discuss synthetic here so you'll have to do your own research.
Click to expand...


Does anyone know why we can't discuss synthetics here?
 
$519 for a be-treated stone???? Wow...that is shocking!!
 
Chrisa222|1343436427|3241719 said:
$519 for a be-treated stone???? Wow...that is shocking!!
Click to expand...

What is BE-treated mean?

I saw a composite ruby for sale on discount bulk website. Then, I googled "composite ruby". No way...

I'd take a heated ruby -- mined out of the ground or lab created.

I know nothing about heated and enchancements for rubies. Anyone got a good website?
 
I was going through some old costume jewelry that belonged to my Grandmother that now belongs to me.

I found two items separate in a small jewelry box. One was a pendant that was a rough diamond in a gold (?) cage. It has a tag that says it's a real diamond. But, I'd like to find out for sure.

The other and more interesting thing was a red stone that looks like a ruby. However, it has lots of scratches on it. Would a real ruby scratch like that?

The red stone is in bad shape -- lots of scratches and pits. But, if it's a real ruby, I want to get it in a setting and wear it with its scars and all.

If it fell out of a setting and it was costume jewelry, why did my Grandmother keep it? Why is it in a small case with a real diamond?
 
It is against Pricescope policies to discuss about any synthetics.

I started a thread on sapphire and ruby treatments, complete with pictures and links earlier this year in CS. I cannot link to it right now because I'm not using my PC. My apologies...the search function should pull it up.

BE treated is short for lattice diffusion with beryllium added during the ultra high heating process. All diffused stones are heated but not all heated stones are diffused.
 
Are lab-created stones considered to be synthetics which shouldn't be discussed? I doubt it but thought I'd ask to be sure.

Assuming they're okay to discuss, I thought I'd mention this as an option:

http://flawlessfacets.com/uncategorized/lab-created-portuguese-rounds-pick-size/

Lab-created ruby in a precision-cut Portuguese round - 8mm for $160. Might be slightly bigger than the 7mm you mentioned, but he also says he can cut them custom to whatever size you need. And since you're a July baby (as am I) and really want ruby, at least this is chemically and structurally a real ruby.

I didn't think the price of the BE-treated rubies on Tan's site were all that bad considering it would cost literally thousands of dollars for a similarly colored natural ruby. BE is to my mind a big step above glass/fracture-filled "rubies" which are often more glass than ruby.
 
Before finding my new ruby, I tried to scratch the itch with a synthetic stone. I ended up sending it back as it didn't look convincing at all to my eye. It was completely clean (I've never seen an IF ruby, even in pictures) and the color was way too deep. I ended up sending it back.

For me, if I were in your shoes, I would go for the glass filled stones. I think they look closest to what I desire. I'd then just clean it with a baby toothbrush, warm water, and some Dawn dish soap.

I hope you find what you're looking for. :appl:
 
tara3056|1343456806|3241890 said:
Are lab-created stones considered to be synthetics which shouldn't be discussed? I doubt it but thought I'd ask to be sure.
Click to expand...

Lab created is pretty much the very definition of synthetic.
 
A Synthetic stone is grown in a lab but is the same "material" as a natural stone...same properties, etc. In the lab they are able to duplicate nature's process, just sped up a couple million times..lol.

A Simulated stone is also grown in lab but is made of something other than synthetic Corrundum (ruby if red). They can be made out of anything..like a red CZ, glass, etc etc. Just something made to look like a Ruby.

Both are not allowed to be discussed here, I'm just giving the definitions.

Chrono gave a precise definition of a BE-treated stone. But you should read about what exactly happens to create the BE-treated Ruby before you buy it. The stone is heated so hot it is almost ready to melt, before the beryllium is added to the stone to improve its color. Beryllium has a lower melting point than Corrundum, so it is integrated into the stone at super high temps. I consider that as close to "synthetic" without being technically synthetic. That is why I am so shocked that the BE-stones are being sold at those astronomical prices...in my opinion.

Chrono...please correct me if I am wrong in what I'm saying...thanks!
 
I think educating consumer about gems and enhancements is important. Especially the difference between natural mined or lab created.

Suppose I buy a ruby. Could GIA or AGL (is that the right one?) tell if it's natural or lab created? Would a lab created stone have heat treatments or fillers?
 
Found it:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/corundum-sapphire-and-ruby-treatment.175354/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/corundum-sapphire-and-ruby-treatment.175354/[/URL]

Synthetic means not natural or not made by nature, therefore a lab created stone is a synthetic. A synthetic stone has the same chemical make-up as its natural kin, and so displays the same physical and optical properties.

Simulant means it is meant as a subtitute stone, be it a natural or synthetic, yet looks like the natural gem it is supposed to "replace" or imitate. For example, a simulant stone might be a synthetic spinel. It could also be red coloured glass or plastic. An example of a natural stone might be natural spinel (because it costs less than an equivalent ruby).

There are tell tale differences between lab created and natural under magnification. In general, lab created stones are very clean. Even if included, the inclusions look different than natural stones. GIA and AGL should be able to tell the difference. Because lab conditions are under good control, the synthetic stones come out perfect and do not require further treatment (additional heating or fillers).
 
If you are searching and happy to go for heavily treated (but beautiful) looking rubies, try searching for "Songea Ruby". The TV shoppin channels were selling these about 5 years ago and they then flooded the market for a time. They are sensational ruby red, virtually eye clean stones. They are rubies but heavily treated although I don't think there are care issues because they're not filled. As they are so lovely looking they also commanded quite high selling prices. To the average person it just looks like a stunning ruby so would make a great fill in for you. Happy hunting.
 
Chrono|1343443514|3241783 said:
It is against Pricescope policies to discuss about any synthetics.
Click to expand...

I understand this but, does anyone know why they have such a hardline policy on this? It just seems kind of a random thing to be so strict about.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP

Featured Topics

Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top