Raw/Rough/Uncut Diamond to be cut Later on. NEED HELP!

[R00K]

Hi everyone,

I have been searching for an answer to my question for some time and when I stumbled across price scope I knew you would be the people to ask immediately.

First a brief overview of my situation. My girlfriend and I are both currently in graduate school, and have been dating for some time, and have discussed getting engaged when we are finished with school. I would like to surprise her by asking her slightly earlier than she might be expecting, which would be sometime in the next two months. She is very socially conscious and wants to know exactly where her stone comes from. We have very little money as we are both in school with fairly large loans and as a result I have been looking at cheaper alternatives than the traditional diamond. My problem is that I would still prefer to get her a diamond. Now to my question.

I have been wondering if I purchase a raw/rough/uncut (not sure of the exact terminology) diamond and have it set into a simple ring, would it be possible to have it cut later down the road when we have the money, and set into a new ring.

P.S. I also like the idea of her having some input later on down the road about how she would like the ring to look.

Any help/ opinions on this matter will be very appreciated, Thank You in advance!

 

[LibbyLA]

Would recycling qualify as being socially conscious? If so, consider buying vintage/antique. There are lovely pieces for all budgets.

If that's an option, post your budget and some info about what you'd like and some of the folks here can probably find you something wonderful.

liz

 

[kenny]

People in the diamond business are smart.
They maximize their profit in every business decision.
If they decide to not cut a rough diamond there is a reason, and I suspect you will not save money buying rough that they decided to kick out of their process.

As to where diamonds come from please google, "Kimberly Process".

 

[kenny]

Would recycling qualify as being socially conscious? If so, consider buying vintage/antique.

I suspect old diamonds are just as likely, if not more so, to have dubious origins.

 

[JulieN]

There is always Canadian for diamonds. But then you don't know about how the metal has been mined...

 

[LibbyLA]

Would recycling qualify as being socially conscious? If so, consider buying vintage/antique.

I suspect old diamonds are just as likely, if not more so, to have dubious origins.

But it's already long out of the ground, doesn't use new resources...

liz

 

[diamondseeker2006]

To be really honest, setting a rough diamond is a really bad idea. I mean, it would be ugly compared to a cut diamond. Plus, you just can't buy a rough diamond very easily.

An antique ring is a great idea and much less expensive than buying a "new"diamond and setting. This jeweler has a store in Chicago but they have their rings listed on ebay. Many of us have bought rings from them and they have a good return policy, too.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/mydiamondzone/m.html?_adv=1&_dmd=1&_in_kw=1&_ipg=50&_sop=16&_rdc=1&_trksid=m194&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSRCHX:SRCH

 

[kenny]

Would recycling qualify as being socially conscious? If so, consider buying vintage/antique.

I suspect old diamonds are just as likely, if not more so, to have dubious origins.

But it's already long out of the ground, doesn't use new resources...

liz

I was considering how much wooers are abused today vs. 100 years ago.

When it come to impact on the planet, I have no idea if today's mining is any more "green" than it was 100 years ago.

The way my brain works, killing an elephant today for the ivory is the moral equivalent of buying ivory from an elephant that was killed for its ivory 100 years ago.

But brains vary.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Would recycling qualify as being socially conscious? If so, consider buying vintage/antique.

I suspect old diamonds are just as likely, if not more so, to have dubious origins.

But it's already long out of the ground, doesn't use new resources...

liz

I was considering how much wooers are abused today vs. 100 years ago.

When it come to impact on the planet, I have no idea if today's mining is any more "green" than it was 100 years ago.

The way my brain works, killing an elephant today for the ivory is the moral equivalent of buying ivory from an elephant that was killed for its ivory 100 years ago.

But brains vary.

Kenny, the point is, if one buys second hand they are not contributing to the diamond industry. My husband feels that way about a certain car brand. They did not honor a warranty and refused to do the right thing, so he would never buy a new car of that brand again. But buying a used car would not be enriching those who currently own the company.

 

[Niel]

Would recycling qualify as being socially conscious? If so, consider buying vintage/antique.

I suspect old diamonds are just as likely, if not more so, to have dubious origins.

But it's already long out of the ground, doesn't use new resources...

liz

I was considering how much wooers are abused today vs. 100 years ago.

When it come to impact on the planet, I have no idea if today's mining is any more "green" than it was 100 years ago.

The way my brain works, killing an elephant today for the ivory is the moral equivalent of buying ivory from an elephant that was killed for its ivory 100 years ago.

But brains vary.

I dont think most people would think of it the same way. For instance, I will only buy fur that is extremely vintage, because as DS it does not provide any money to the company that originally made it, nor does my buying that fur effect ANY animals. Buying a 80 year old diamond is similar. And "blood diamonds" is only part of the aspect of being socially conscious about diamonds. Its also the idea that you have to dig it from the earth, that causes damage to the earth as well as the use of fossil fuels. I think an antique one is the most socially concision (besides synthetics).

 

[Rockdiamond]

Interesting discussion!
Rook: People do wear uncut diamonds in rings- and some people like the look- it's unusual for sure
Usually the rough diamond is held in a "cage" and I've seen prongs as well.

But as Kenny mentioned, the people and companies that buy rough will generally never sell a piece t a consumer in that state if there is any chance whatsoever to have it come out to be a nice stone.
So whatever diamonds are being sold in the rough state have little chance of being a nice diamond if polished ( cut)

 

[Niel]

I mean lab growth diamonds, i dont know if the right terminology is stimulant or synthetic. but im talking about real lab grown diamonds

 

[VRBeauty]

An interesting idea in concept, but I suspect it would work in concept only. 1) You'd have to find a source for gem-quality rough. 2) you would be absorbing (as in paying for) any uncertainty about the actual quality of that rough. You, or the seller, could make a guess about the clarity and color of the cut diamond the rough would yield, but you won't know for certain until it's cut. A new cut stone, on the other hand, already reflects the cost of that uncertainty. 3) You'll have costs associated with getting the rough cut when you're ready for that. There would also be costs associated with getting a new setting since the setting used for the rough would probably not work for the cut stone.

That said, DeBeers has a line of jewelry that uses diamond rough (http://www.debeers.com/design-collections/talisman-collection/) and personally I think it's both fascinating and beautiful. I think the flaw in your plan is in the part of converting your rough diamond into a cut diamond later on down the road. Perhaps you could craft a ring with diamond rough now, and then plan to replace the whole thing with a ring utilizing a diamond you trust later one?

(As for me personally, I'd go for a used ring and diamond, but I know not everyone would accept that as a solution.)

 

[distracts]

That said, DeBeers has a line of jewelry that uses diamond rough (http://www.debeers.com/design-collections/talisman-collection/) and personally I think it's both fascinating and beautiful.

Haha, though buying from DeBeers would be, like, the opposite of ethically-sourced, probably! I saw that line last week when I went to the mall and it IS very pretty.

I don't know how you're planning on ensuring that the rough you got was ethically sourced rough. I think buying rough would have the same ethical concerns as buying a cut diamond, as from my understanding of the trade, diamonds are cut after the potential ethical concerns. Most diamonds are cut in Antwerp, India, Tel Aviv, and NYC, so aside from potential ethical concerns revolving around labor and political situations in India and Israel, you're not bypassing the majority of ethical issues. If you were to personally source the rough in a country where it was mined, I'm not sure how you would be sure of its ethical origin without having extremely large amounts of knowledge about the local area - not to mention the legalities of importing it to the US. Plus that would be massively expensive. Logistically it just doesn't work.

Personally I'd get a Canadian diamond. There are still ethical issues with mining and, if you are inclined to think that way, depriving a third world country of monetary resources in order to buy from another first world country, but overall probably less problematic. The vast majority of precious metals are recycled so that shouldn't be a concern. If you decide to not go with diamond, a Montana sapphire could be a good option.

And for me, buying a pre-owned ring is less mind-clean ethically than a new one, because even if my money hasn't directly contributed to a "blood diamond" scenario or whatever, it is possible that the first purchase of the diamond DID. And that's just not mind-clean for me. (Well, personally I actually see no more ethical problem with diamonds than with many other things people use and don't make a fuss about - consumer electronics and toilet paper, to name just two, for instance. But if I was going to be extra-concerned about it, I would not consider a pre-owned ring an acceptable solution. Unless it also was a Canadian diamond, and I still didn't care about the environment but only the potential that it had funded conflict.).

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Hello Rock,

Let me answer your questions from a different perspective. It seems that one of your motives is also to possibly save money, or delay a majority of your outlay until later. I think it is important to explain pricing of diamonds to you.

Simplifying the picture, the consumer-price of a polished diamond consists of three main factors:
- One is the cost of distribution, getting the diamond from the cutter to your local or online dealer, and finally into your hands.
- Second is the cost of the rough diamond to the cutter.
- Third, there is the cost of cutting.

If you are trying to buy a rough diamond instead of a polished diamond, you will be faced with the first two costs, while trying to avoid the third cost. It may well be that the cost of distribution is even higher than for polished, since the industry is organized to bring polished diamonds to the retailers, and not really for rough diamonds.

And in the final cost of a diamond, the cost of cutting the diamond is actually minimal. Its proportionate weight goes up slightly if size of the diamond goes down, but on average, I would estimate it to be below 5% of the total cost of the stone.

Thus, from the perspective of possibly saving money, the scenario of attempting to buy a rough diamond actually is not a money-saver. Finding a rough diamond is far more difficult than finding a polished diamond, you will likely be charged more by the professionals assisting you in this search, and in the end, you have no idea about the final 4C-aspects of the diamond.

Live long,

 

[Niel]

I dissagree that a used diamond is not ethical. You cannot change how that diamond was mined 80 years ago nor are you contributing to the current diamond industry. Also factor in the natural resource side of mining and hauling diamonds - which is happening even with canadian diamond mining. A used diamond just at this point exists. Its recycling or upcycling. But to be honest if your worried about the ethical mining of diamonds and want to save money i would look into MMD or chathem gems, or antique stones. I dont think buying rough will pan out in the long run. Though they do make interesting rings. Go look at diamond in the rough

 

[cygnet]

I have never purchased from here, but Anouk Jewelry has a fairly inexpensive and very pretty line of "raw" diamond rings. Might be worth a look.

http://www.anoukjewelry.com/collections/raw_diamonds.php?s=8&item=14

 

[chrono]

I am sure with many trade-ins, trade-ups, trade-whatevers, many diamonds offered for sale are not freshly mined either. Many are
"recycled" with new lab reports.

 

[Circe]

I have two rough diamond rings, and I adore them. Mine could be faceted, but I really love their finish as-is. That said, I would NOT recommend buying a rough diamond and setting it with the intention of faceting it down the line - you could lose about 2/3s of the volume, conservatively, and there's no guarantee it wouldn't shatter on the wheel. Too much of a risk for something with so much emotional significance!

I like the idea of getting a rough diamond now and "refining" it with an upgrade later. One issue a lot of women - well, around these parts, anyway! - struggle with is the question of what you do with your original when you get a bigger stone. People get creative, but there can be some angst over either the "wastefullness" of wearing one and leaving the other in a box periodically, or over resetting and losing the original piece. Well, with a rough ring and a polished ring, there's enough difference you can wear both without batting an eye! Pics of mine below the way I wear them with bands:

 

[ChrisES]

OP:

Could we pry a bit and ask about your budget? There are a lot of options to consider, ranging from the rough or preloved stones being discussed to a smaller stone. Also, by leveraging the Power of the Internet (tm) and the secret that cut is much more important than color or clarity, Pricescope people might be able to find you a bigger or anyway better stone than you think you can afford.

Other options include intentionally getting a ring with a much smaller stone and planning a totally new ring for the future (first anniversary gift?) - then you don't have to feel as much like the first ring was "wasted" - it was just a placeholder. Alternately, if you value the specific stone you propose with and think she'll want to wear that, allocating more budget into an attractive setting (or designer setting for "prestige") can help make a smaller stone stay "special." Another possibility it to intentionally look for a D or IF stone, even small, so it will be "perfect" in same way - the color/clarity premiums are quite small for stones under 1 carat.

 

[yssie]

The money aspect is no problem at all - in the past couple of years quite a few PSers have chosen engagement bands and fivestones rather than "traditional" solitaires, and I personally love this trend! They make for blingy and unique engagement rings and you never "grow out" of them because they're so versatile

The social consciousness is the difficult part - people have such varied opinions on what "most ethical" means... right here on this thread we've gone through newly mined vs. old, newly cut vs. already faceted... honestly, knowing how strongly people can feel about these sorts of issues, I think you need to talk to her and figure this out together. You definitely don't want to wind up choosing something she might have a moral objection to (vs. picking the wrong shank!)

 

[Laila619]

I would go with an antique diamond. Or else there is moissanite, which is not a fake diamond but a gem in its own right. There is also sapphire; I think yellow and blue sapphires are lovely.

 

[bigdiamondtinygal]

What about buying a ring from somewhere like Brilliant Earth? They have conflict free and eco friendly diamonds and offer a guarantee about that. http://www.brilliantearth.com/main/actions/find/?q=conflict+free

I copied and pasted this from their site:

"At Brilliant Earth, we guarantee that each of our diamonds has been mined ethically and with respect for people and the environment. Our diamonds qualify as conflict free diamonds. But beyond being conflict free, our diamonds are wholly free from all types of violence, such as torture and rape committed by government militaries. Workers are paid fair wages, child labor is completely absent, local communities benefit economically, and care is taken to protect the environment.

We can provide this guarantee because we know exactly where each of our diamonds is mined and the conditions in place at those mines. We also carefully track all of our diamonds from mine to market to ensure that they are mined, cut, and polished in a socially and environmentally responsible manner. Our tracking ability ensures that our diamonds enter an uninterrupted chain of custody and that our supply chain is not corrupted by irresponsible and unethical practices. Our careful sourcing methods also allow us to be confident that no diamond treatments or alterations have been used."

 

[distracts]

I would go with an antique diamond. Or else there is moissanite, which is not a fake diamond but a gem in its own right. There is also sapphire; I think yellow and blue sapphires are lovely.

Other natural gemstones in themselves aren't a solution as the ethical problems surrounding diamonds pertain to them as well. And unlike diamonds, there is no Kimberly Process to track them. American or Australian sapphires could be a solution but their colors, unless heavily treated, are often not the prime colors sought after. Another solution is to buy from a vendor who sources their own gems and is committed to sourcing ethical gems only, like Wild Fish Gems or Lisa Elser.

 

[diamonds-are-friends]

that sounds like a slippery road. Planning and cutting a rough diamond is a pretty complex process. There could be underlying reasons to why some people sell roughs stones as it is instead of cutting the stone.

Get her the rough diamond ring if that's want to do at the moment. it might be a better option to keep the first ring as memory sake and forgo the idea of trying to recut the rough diamond due to economic reasons. The cost for cutting might just come up to the same cost as the rough stone!

 

[ChrisES]

What about buying a ring from somewhere like Brilliant Earth? They have conflict free and eco friendly diamonds and offer a guarantee about that. http://www.brilliantearth.com/main/actions/find/?q=conflict+free

*snip*

I don't care for Brilliant Earth personally, and I certainly wouldn't recommend them to someone on a budget. Here's an old thread with a lot on the subject, including my views: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-8-noticeable-different-from-74-worth-extra-money.174485/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-8-noticeable-different-from-74-worth-extra-money.174485/[/URL]