Really need your honest opinion

[ma re]

LD, your stone does indeed show some extinction, but I think we have to clarify the difference between intentional extinction, like in your stone which is done on purpose to make the gem more scintillating i.e. livelier, and that shown in the first set of pics on THIS page, which is an accidental, unintentional extinction, and which is not desirable cause it makes the gem somewhat less beautiful. I don't think either of your gemstones (two posted in this thread) suffers from the later.

 

[Arcadian]

the stone has a good color (sometimes) But from your pictures, I don''t like its inside color It looks orangeish??. I know you have a Sony cybershot, so are you using automatic or manual options? I also only see a tilt window which will go away once set.

My first (and only mahenge) I loved but didn''t LUV, it but could NOT send it back because that voice in my head was like "wait, give it a week". Now I can''t stop staring her, especially after being set

. Her flaws became real assets when she performed. I''m glad I listened to my instincts.

By the same token, your instincts are trying to tell you something.

The stone you have is apparently is not YOUR stone. If there are aspects of the stone that you just don''t like, and if you''re still questioning if this stone is a good fit for you especially after 3 weeks, send it back.


BTW, you''re getting the hang of your camera just fine!

-A

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 1/9/2010 7:18:20 AM
Author: Lady_Disdain

Date: 1/9/2010 1:50:02 AM
Author: crasru

Date: 1/9/2010 1:39:28 AM
Author: Lovinggems
Swala has lots of top notched gems but I''m not loving this one, not sure if it''s because of the photos, although it might be risky sending the stone back to Tanzania.

Well, the photos do look ugly although for someone who just took first shots four days ago it could be worse. I shall try to do a better job. Basically, there are two things that are...well, juxt so-so. One is, it looks slightly shallow, like a canoe. And second, these black areas against pink background... As I have said, I may need to make better pictures. This is the first Mahenge spinel I ever saw so I do not know how other stones may look like.

Sorry for my naive question, but doesn''t FEDEX have branches in Tanzania?

I don''t think that getting the stone physically there is the problem, but rather custom issues, which can be a major pain in some countries. Since it is a return, there may be a lot of red tape to prove that it is the same stone that left the country (and not amore or less expensive stone, to cheat on taxes) and there may be the risk of the package ''disappearing'' somewhere along the line.

This is most likely the reason why the stone was wrapped in a Tshirt as well (if someone opens the package, all they see is the tshirt, instead of a valuable gem).

Now I got it. Thanks for explaining. It makes total sense. Thanks for being so direct with explaining the "shirt" parcel. Customs may be a headache - I saw it happening in Russia, and in one of Hispanic countries the customs officer did not let us take out a bottle of expensive liquor that we bought in a duty free store! We drank it on the spot - just out of spite. I am not a big drinker but it was worth the look on his face! We had a great trip, but I had this feeling that I would not even want to do anything with the customs in the future.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 1/9/2010 1:26:55 PM
Author: Arcadian
the stone has a good color (sometimes) But from your pictures, I don't like its inside color It looks orangeish??. I know you have a Sony cybershot, so are you using automatic or manual options? I also only see a tilt window which will go away once set.

My first (and only mahenge) I loved but didn't LUV, it but could NOT send it back because that voice in my head was like 'wait, give it a week'. Now I can't stop staring her, especially after being set

. Her flaws became real assets when she performed. I'm glad I listened to my instincts.

By the same token, your instincts are trying to tell you something.

The stone you have is apparently is not YOUR stone. If there are aspects of the stone that you just don't like, and if you're still questioning if this stone is a good fit for you especially after 3 weeks, send it back.


BTW, you're getting the hang of your camera just fine!

-A

Woe to these who say Bostonians are not polite! Yeah, for someone who considered Blackberry photos quite appropriate, I am learning. Light is most difficult thing due to outdoors situation (as you may have guessed, I have moved to Seattle - hence all the whining about the weather! Otherwise, it is a lovely state).

Actually, I come to love it more with time. And no, it is not orangeish at all. I did set the macro button and arranged the size, but that was all. When editing, I used automatic option, which may have made everything look more orangeish (look at my skin - you'll understand). No, it is pure pink and it has some neon effect although it is not the same neon that one would wear to be visible in headlights when jogging. But I think I understand what you mean. It is very obvious on photographs that are slightly out of focus.

I just do not like the black spots. But maybe it is something I have to put up with?
BTW does synthetic spinel show the same effect? I have some stones that I want to post on this website - huge, beautiful color-changers that my father bought in Laos in 1978 thinking he was buying "alexandrites". They change color and are very hard, I dropped them on a tiled floor to see if they would break (when I realised they were not alexandrites, my first thought was, glass). They did not break. They are gorgeous but I wonder what they are. They show some tiny degree of black spots although the cut prevents seeing the effect to its fullest. Could it be synthetic spinel?

 

[haagen_dazs]

i dont see any table window. the pink in daylights is beautiful

 

[LD]

Date: 1/9/2010 1:24:18 PM
Author: ma re
LD, your stone does indeed show some extinction, but I think we have to clarify the difference between intentional extinction, like in your stone which is done on purpose to make the gem more scintillating i.e. livelier, and that shown in the first set of pics on THIS page, which is an accidental, unintentional extinction, and which is not desirable cause it makes the gem somewhat less beautiful. I don''t think either of your gemstones (two posted in this thread) suffers from the later.

Mr Ma Re - I hate to disagree with you but I don''t believe there is any such thing as intentional extinction. Extinction is caused by the cut and facet placement leaking light out of the back of the gem. I don''t believe that any cutter would intentionally aim for this. I am prepared of course to be corrected but since maximising colour is usually the aim with gemstones, I don''t believe that extinction can ever be an aim. I hope one of our lapidarists chimes in because it''ll be interesting to have their perspective on this.

Crasru - I have a precision cut gemstone that shows 50/50 extinction also. As it happens it gives the effect of colour change so I''m not bothered and do actually like it. So would precision cuts eliminate extinction? Most of the time yes, but not all of the time.

Will you do me a favour? Read back your posts for a second. You don''t sound happy with this gem. There are too many negatives. That being the case, this is not the gem for you (at the moment). The reason I''ve added that in brackets is that Arcadian makes a very very good point. I have, on occasion, not liked something on arrival because my expectations were at 100 feet and when the gem arrived plummeted! That''s my fault for having over-inflated expectations. Do you think this maybe the case with you? I can understand how that might happen if you''ve seen Chrono''s magnificent pear and various other Mahenges that have been posted on here.

The way to be sure is to put it to one side for a few days. Ignore it. Don''t even look at it. Then take it out and see how you feel at that point. Forget the return complications for a minute (which, by the way, can be negated) and concentrate on the gem. Honestly if you don''t feel the love for it, send it back. You''ve presumably paid a fair amount of money so you must be happy and having just recently bought from Eric I would be surprised if he would want an unhappy customer.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 1/9/2010 2:24:47 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds

Date: 1/9/2010 1:24:18 PM
Author: ma re
LD, your stone does indeed show some extinction, but I think we have to clarify the difference between intentional extinction, like in your stone which is done on purpose to make the gem more scintillating i.e. livelier, and that shown in the first set of pics on THIS page, which is an accidental, unintentional extinction, and which is not desirable cause it makes the gem somewhat less beautiful. I don't think either of your gemstones (two posted in this thread) suffers from the later.

Mr Ma Re - I hate to disagree with you but I don't believe there is any such thing as intentional extinction. Extinction is caused by the cut and facet placement leaking light out of the back of the gem. I don't believe that any cutter would intentionally aim for this. I am prepared of course to be corrected but since maximising colour is usually the aim with gemstones, I don't believe that extinction can ever be an aim. I hope one of our lapidarists chimes in because it'll be interesting to have their perspective on this.

Crasru - I have a precision cut gemstone that shows 50/50 extinction also. As it happens it gives the effect of colour change so I'm not bothered and do actually like it. So would precision cuts eliminate extinction? Most of the time yes, but not all of the time.

Will you do me a favour? Read back your posts for a second. You don't sound happy with this gem. There are too many negatives. That being the case, this is not the gem for you (at the moment). The reason I've added that in brackets is that Arcadian makes a very very good point. I have, on occasion, not liked something on arrival because my expectations were at 100 feet and when the gem arrived plummeted! That's my fault for having over-inflated expectations. Do you think this maybe the case with you? I can understand how that might happen if you've seen Chrono's magnificent pear and various other Mahenges that have been posted on here.

The way to be sure is to put it to one side for a few days. Ignore it. Don't even look at it. Then take it out and see how you feel at that point. Forget the return complications for a minute (which, by the way, can be negated) and concentrate on the gem. Honestly if you don't feel the love for it, send it back. You've presumably paid a fair amount of money so you must be happy and having just recently bought from Eric I would be surprised if he would want an unhappy customer.

I agree. The Namibian spessartine which I bought from Marc Sarosi is included but I still love it because it is the orange I always wanted. So whatever people may say or think, I am going to set it and enjoy looking at it because it warms my heart. I shall post it here just to ask people's ideas about the setting. (But I shall be perfectly OK if someone criticizes it or points out other sources because I came here to learn. It was very nice of Chrono to explain to me about the clarity factor when I raved about the fact that I liked inclusions in spessartines). I've seen some PS-ers take offense in most trivial feedback, and I think it is unreasonable.

I like my alexandrite although it has a window. But I like the shift of colors and I "play" with it all the time.

I absolutely love my demantoid although I've seen darker and greener...but mine shines and sparkles! My cat wants to play with it!

But with this stone...I did not compare it with Chrono's stone. Once, Chrono deserves the best stone. Second, she knows everything about stones and can read website pictures. Third, she told me that super-saturated Mahenges come above 5 ct., so I did not expect stoplight red or even a haloed pink.

And I am not unhappy with Eric. It was not Eric who told me about Mahenges, it was a totally different gem dealer. Swala was the website I was directed to, and Eric promptly sold me a nice stone at an affordable price. Actually, went out of his way to do things promptly. (And the cotton of the T-shirt is super, too!)

I, too, would like to hear from our cutters. I shall follow your advise and let it lie. And focus on setting the other stone. If by the end of January I still feel like, "mm..." I shall ask Eric if and how it can be exchanged. I think there may be ways to do it if I do not mind waiting.

If there is absolutely no way - I shall look into recutting it. Better to suffer some (stone) weight loss than invest into an expensive setting (because I want it to look really well) for a stone that you do not enjoy. With time such stones start irritating you.

 

[PrecisionGem]

The problem with mailing valuable things back to Africa is they get stolen. When I have rough shipped from Africa here to the States, it''s often not possible to return anything if I don''t like it. It''s easier to mail from Africa to hear, since the owner is taking the item to FedEx directly, but the other way around it will make to the Fedex facility in Tanzania, and then never be seen again.

You have to realize that that stone cost more than most people in Tanzania would make in several years.

 

[T L]

Crasru,
Is this Eric's photo of your stone?

 

[Arkteia]

Got it! What do you think about recutting?

Date: 1/9/2010 8:28:47 PM
Author: PrecisionGem
The problem with mailing valuable things back to Africa is they get stolen. When I have rough shipped from Africa here to the States, it''s often not possible to return anything if I don''t like it. It''s easier to mail from Africa to hear, since the owner is taking the item to FedEx directly, but the other way around it will make to the Fedex facility in Tanzania, and then never be seen again.

You have to realize that that stone cost more than most people in Tanzania would make in several years.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 1/9/2010 9:30:51 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Crasru,
Is this Eric''s photo of your stone?

I think so.

 

[chrono]

Crasru,
I''m sorry for the late reply, and also a very abbreviated post but I will write the main points and return later to address the rest.
1. I think it''s a nice stone outdoors.
2. I think I see some orange indoors; is that picture accurate?
3. There is NO window. Tilt window is normal.
4. Many stones will have some extinction. The level varies and the tolerance for the level differs from each person.
5. Do NOT recut the stone. It looks to be already well cut and who knows what will happen. In fact, it looks to be precision cut right now.

Please forgive the rushed reply as it is exceedingly late here but I''ll come back again.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 1/9/2010 9:30:51 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Crasru,
Is this Eric''s photo of your stone?

I think mine is on the website, in the SOLD section, and it is 2.57 ct.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 1/9/2010 11:38:38 PM
Author: Chrono
Crasru,
I'm sorry for the late reply, and also a very abbreviated post but I will write the main points and return later to address the rest.
1. I think it's a nice stone outdoors.
2. I think I see some orange indoors; is that picture accurate?
3. There is NO window. Tilt window is normal.
4. Many stones will have some extinction. The level varies and the tolerance for the level differs from each person.
5. Do NOT recut the stone. It looks to be already well cut and who knows what will happen. In fact, it looks to be precision cut right now.

Please forgive the rushed reply as it is exceedingly late here but I'll come back again.

It is not orange indoors. I tried to look under different light; no orange. I think I just set "automatic correction"of brightness and contrast when processing the photos; hence the result. I have noticed that it tends to shift to yellow spectrum. The spess. from Pala is not chicken-yellow either but it certainly looks this way on my photo. I think my hand looks more orange-red on the photo where you see orange. I am not going to adjust anything automatically. In fact, I am not going to adjust anything at all because Sony takes fine pictures except for sapphires that look lighter and more beautiful than IRL.

The extinction is quite significant, at least for my taste. I would not fuss about it otherwise because I have been primed by garnets.

On a positive note, the stone has a fine crystal.

 

[innerkitten]

Amazing color but it has that kind of extinction where it''s bright on one side and dark on the other when you turn it, but not bright all at the same time. Depends how much that type of thing bugs you

 

[innerkitten]

Date: 1/9/2010 8:28:47 PM
Author: PrecisionGem
The problem with mailing valuable things back to Africa is they get stolen. When I have rough shipped from Africa here to the States, it''s often not possible to return anything if I don''t like it. It''s easier to mail from Africa to hear, since the owner is taking the item to FedEx directly, but the other way around it will make to the Fedex facility in Tanzania, and then never be seen again.


You have to realize that that stone cost more than most people in Tanzania would make in several years.

So true. I sent a great care package to my best friend when she was living in madagascar and it was stolen at the post office!

 

[Arkteia]

Looked again - it doesn''t look orange at night. I like it better indoors - but then, I like everything better indoors.

 

[Arkteia]

I was thinking about orangey color. In all fairness, it is not orangey at all. I think I was using my table lamp - its maximum may lie in reddish-yellow spectrum and since I am new to photography I was probably putting the stone to close to the lamp; hence the color. There is nothing orangey in it. But extinction gives it appearance of a Batman''s mask with the eyes being pink. Now, I looked at Chrono''s magnificent heirloom ring - the photograph also some extinction but the color of her ring is so saturated that one does not notice it. With pink, it is much more noticeable.
What I want to know, is it typical for all Mahenges? Or can I find a stone with less extinction?

 

[LD]

Crasnu - are you absolutely positive you're seeing extinction? I think you're confusing extinction with the natural shadowing that cuts show. Chrono's pear has absolutely no extinction. In fact, for a pear it's extremely well cut.

I have to be honest and say that the vendor's photo of your stone shows the tiniest tiniest tiniest bit of extinction ever. Your photos also are not showing much. I'm pretty sure what you're seeing is head shadow. Do me a favour? With the light above you, hold your stone at shoulder height out in front of you - do you see extinction? Now put it on a table in front of you, closer (as if you were taking a photo), again with light above you. Does that make a difference to what you think is extinction?

 

[Arkteia]

More on the table

 

[Arkteia]

But- can you see two shadowy areas, at 12 and 6 PM, and then two at 3 and 9 PM in Eric''s photograph? They are much darker in real life, This being said, the pink is much brighter, too.

 

[LD]

Date: 1/10/2010 6:21:24 PM
Author: crasru
More on the table

Sorry do you mean that when the gem is on the table you''re seeing more extinction? If so, I''m pretty sure that it''s head shadow not extinction.

 

[Arkteia]

You know what I think I should do? Just show it to a local jeweller I respect. He in GIA-certified and he can definitely tell me what it is. I shall not mention the origin of the stone or who I got it from. Just show it to him. Because my explanations are imprecise. It can be very good education experience. I definitely learned about the window, though. One quick question, I know that my alex has a window and it is not a tilt window yet I still can not see the print through it. Is it because of the color? (Irregardless of the window, there is still enough saturation to mask the window effect?)

 

[StonieGrl]

I like the spinel. It has many good qualities which have already been enumerated by knowledgeable and experienced PSers.

The important thing is that you are unsure if YOU do. Because you are just starting out in gemstones, and its nice to have you here, btw, you are also struggling with evaluating what you paid versus its unknown value via purchase price.

First of all, do you own some stone grippers? Get some, they are cheap and you will be able to view gemstones in a safe manner and loupe them better as well (assuming you have some loupes).

Your comment re Tucson: I live just outside Tucson. My husband has a master''s in Geology, I have a bachelor''s in geology. We know rocks, LOL. When we decided to indulge in colored gemstones, we took the GIA course, online. We learned quite a lot that way and most importantly, we learned how much we DO NOT KNOW, we learned that we lack quite a bit of the sophisticated equipment necessary to verify a gemstone, and we learned that the best way to get a quality stone is to KNOW from whom you purchase.

Ideally, you want someone selling you one of the pricier green stones, to be able to know the diff between a tsav, a chrome tourmaline, and a green tourmaline. Google
chelsea filter." Different garnets have different properties/proportions. As you aren''t going to have a GIA lab full of equipment to verify stones, you want a vendor who does or who can buy reliable rough. This is why there are a few vendors I buy stones from and several of them are PS favorites (Hi Gene!) and some are geologists I have worked with and trust and have their own claims.

The Tucson Gem/Mineral Show is the largest in the world. An unbelievable amount of money changes hands there. No one is going to want to educate you, talk gemstones, etc. I say this not in a mean way (hard to give ''tone'' online) but they have a limited amount of time in which to ''make'' their business suceed or fail. In addition, unless you are ''the trade,'' you cannot even get in the shows where gemstones are sold---wholesale. Yes, you can get in to the big show at the Convention Center but your prices skyrocket accordingly and most of the gemstone vendors won''t show there---security and insurance problems, lookie loo''s, etc etc.

I don''t want to discourage you in any way, just let you know that there are avenues to do/get what you want and want to learn. One thing you could do would be view a possible buy at the gemshow if your vendor will be there and will meet you outside.


Go to the GIA site. Take the colored gemstones course, THEN come to Tucson and you will be able to see what is before you in a different way.

 

[T L]

Date: 1/10/2010 6:59:57 PM
Author: crasru
You know what I think I should do? Just show it to a local jeweller I respect. He in GIA-certified and he can definitely tell me what it is. I shall not mention the origin of the stone or who I got it from. Just show it to him. Because my explanations are imprecise. It can be very good education experience. I definitely learned about the window, though. One quick question, I know that my alex has a window and it is not a tilt window yet I still can not see the print through it. Is it because of the color? (Irregardless of the window, there is still enough saturation to mask the window effect?)

What is the exact color indoors to your eye? It seems to do quite a color shift from your pictures, although, those may just be bad photos. Some spinels do not have much extinction because they have silk, and this silk reflects the light back to the eye. A more crystal stone will have more obvious facet shadows that may show up as dark areas in the stone.

As for your alex, if it has a sizable table window, and you still can't see print through it, then it's probably darker toned, and/or it has inclusions or clouds in it. Some alex have cloudy inclusions.

 

[ma re]

Date: 1/10/2010 6:07:27 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
Crasnu - are you absolutely positive you''re seeing extinction? I think you''re confusing extinction with the natural shadowing that cuts show.

That''s what I mean by intentional extinction, and that''s what I mean is the case with your stone too; Shadows of facets that sometimes show, and sometimes not.

TL also made a good argument about this issue, that silky/glowy stones show less extinctions and why is that so. Their inclusions or flourescence don''t allow for sufficient contrast between the facet shadows and body color, so you see very little "extinction", if any, but also considerably less obvious scintillation than you would in more crystaline stones. While more crystaline materials, especially those of brighter colors often show a very strong contrast between the body color and eventual shadows, which people than mistake for extinction.

If you want the effect similar to that in glowy/silky stones, all you need to do is cut a cone shaped pavillion without any facets, and you''ll end up with a stone that has absolutely no extinction, but also has absolutely no scintillation - kind of like a cab.

 

[chrono]

Crasru,
I’m not sure if what you are seeing is extinction. They look like shadowing to me. My Mahenge from Swala has no extinction and I do not see it in yours either. What I do see, is a bit of slightly darker colour and lighter colour which I consider “shadowing”. What you have pointed out in Swala’s photograph is contrast scintillation. This is normal in ALL gemstones, especially precision cut stones. All gemstones need this to allow the gem to be lively as it is rotated or moved around. These “shadowy areas” as you call it will light up and darken as the stone is moved, correct? My guess with your Alex and its window is that the colour might be too dark to allow you to be able to read any print through it.

Ma Re,
I’ve never heard of “intentional extinction” and I doubt any precision cutter will want to do that.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 1/11/2010 9:00:13 AM
Author: Chrono

Crasru,
I’m not sure if what you are seeing is extinction. They look like shadowing to me. My Mahenge from Swala has no extinction and I do not see it in yours either. What I do see, is a bit of slightly darker colour and lighter colour which I consider “shadowing”. What you have pointed out in Swala’s photograph is contrast scintillation. This is normal in ALL gemstones, especially precision cut stones. All gemstones need this to allow the gem to be lively as it is rotated or moved around. These “shadowy areas” as you call it will light up and darken as the stone is moved, correct? My guess with your Alex and its window is that the colour might be too dark to allow you to be able to read any print through it.

Ma Re,
I’ve never heard of “intentional extinction” and I doubt any precision cutter will want to do that.

Chrono,

I think it is very easy for me to explain what I see. Can you look at the photograph of your heirloom spinel? In gold setting? In the right hand corner of "Colored Stones" forum? The red one? Well, if I look closely, I see darker area on top, changing into a small dark line running N-S, and ending with a small dark area on the bottom. This is exactly what I see in my spinel. What is it? Your spinel is red, so it is harder to see, but I think you''ll understand what I mean.

 

[chrono]

Oh, that picture. Yes, I went back to look at it to be sure before commenting because I don’t have any extinction in that high karat gold heirloom ring stone. That’s just the shadow from goodness knows where as the stone is angled/tilted a little in that picture. That said, that red spinel does exhibit some extinction but it's not much at all.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 1/10/2010 8:01:45 PM
Author: StonieGrl
I like the spinel. It has many good qualities which have already been enumerated by knowledgeable and experienced PSers.

The important thing is that you are unsure if YOU do. Because you are just starting out in gemstones, and its nice to have you here, btw, you are also struggling with evaluating what you paid versus its unknown value via purchase price.

First of all, do you own some stone grippers? Get some, they are cheap and you will be able to view gemstones in a safe manner and loupe them better as well (assuming you have some loupes).

Your comment re Tucson: I live just outside Tucson. My husband has a master''s in Geology, I have a bachelor''s in geology. We know rocks, LOL. When we decided to indulge in colored gemstones, we took the GIA course, online. We learned quite a lot that way and most importantly, we learned how much we DO NOT KNOW, we learned that we lack quite a bit of the sophisticated equipment necessary to verify a gemstone, and we learned that the best way to get a quality stone is to KNOW from whom you purchase.

Ideally, you want someone selling you one of the pricier green stones, to be able to know the diff between a tsav, a chrome tourmaline, and a green tourmaline. Google
chelsea filter.'' Different garnets have different properties/proportions. As you aren''t going to have a GIA lab full of equipment to verify stones, you want a vendor who does or who can buy reliable rough. This is why there are a few vendors I buy stones from and several of them are PS favorites (Hi Gene!) and some are geologists I have worked with and trust and have their own claims.

The Tucson Gem/Mineral Show is the largest in the world. An unbelievable amount of money changes hands there. No one is going to want to educate you, talk gemstones, etc. I say this not in a mean way (hard to give ''tone'' online) but they have a limited amount of time in which to ''make'' their business suceed or fail. In addition, unless you are ''the trade,'' you cannot even get in the shows where gemstones are sold---wholesale. Yes, you can get in to the big show at the Convention Center but your prices skyrocket accordingly and most of the gemstone vendors won''t show there---security and insurance problems, lookie loo''s, etc etc.

I don''t want to discourage you in any way, just let you know that there are avenues to do/get what you want and want to learn. One thing you could do would be view a possible buy at the gemshow if your vendor will be there and will meet you outside.


Go to the GIA site. Take the colored gemstones course, THEN come to Tucson and you will be able to see what is before you in a different way.

I have loupes. As to stone grippers, I have one but I tend to drop the stones due to lack of experience, can I use surgical clamp? It provides excellent grip and should be fine on stones like spinel. (Not on soft stones, of course - but what is good on soft stones?). Loupe I have although I have a certain vision problem - for some reason it is hard for me to look into any piece of magnifying equipment, a loupe, a microscope or binoculars (at least with a loupe, you can close one eye). Don''t know what it is, my vision is 20/20 on both eyes. But I''ll manage. I went by the Matlin''s book but to buy anything more sophisticated, I need to know what is the easiest to operate. You know, like with a scanner/copier, you can buy one for $ 60.00 but it is bad, you can buy one for $ 200.00 and it suits you and you can manage it and you can buy one for $ 2000.00 and it is super and has many functions but each time it is a paper jam, you feel helpless? And if the problem is bigger, you have to call service?

Now, re. Tucson show. I did not want to buy anything, I just wanted to look at what is available. Since this is my first spinel, I am just looking at it, sniffing it, trying to understand what it is that I am having for lunch (like my first piece of sushu. Now I love sushi! - LOL). If I saw a 100, I could get a better idea. Buying at the Tucson show is risky for a rookie like me, especially with abundance of synthetics. Eric gets his material locally, so this is safe.

Re. GIA site. I was there 6 mo. ago, and I understand you are not talking about the small class they are offering. They have something like a multiple choice exam online, but it is very basics. I presume you are talking about classes that are time-consuming but really informative. Can you mail out a link, please?

I do have a jeweller whose prices are very competitive and who has been recommended to me by two independent people, a gemologist and a customer. But still it is me who is going to make the decision on what to buy. That is why I came to PS.

And wholesale prices, yes, I know how to get them and what should be a decent overhead these days but first of all, good stones always cost higher than "decent overhead" or, someone could offer you orangey-red spinel and you can buy it for the price of red and be totally happy because you do not know what is good and what is bad. That is why I valued Chrono''s comments about included spessartines so much.

It is great that people taught me about "windows". I still like my alex because of color change but it is wonderful that people told me what is wrong with it. Do you think that covering the back of the stone (i.e. "gypsy" setting ) could minimise the windowing effect? The only reason it is not really a problem is because it is always overcast here and nothing looks well in daytime, nothing!