Red Spinel and a small surface table inclusion.

[SpinelGarnetTourmaline]

I know with emeralds surface inclusions aren’t uncommon. This one is really hard to see without careful inspection but could this lead to issues in the future? Vendor is reputable and honest (listed here as well). Overall the clarity is pretty solid.

I would plan for this to be a pendant but I wanted to know how big a deal this would be before buying anything.

 

[LilAlex]

Welcome!

I can't really tell what I'm looking at. Maybe start with some dimensions (of the stone and maybe of the defect) and a full-stone view and then zoom in. Like maybe an 8mm stone and you're guessing it's a 4mm table and the inclusion is a tenth or 20th of that, etc.

Is it a natural? Is it an inclusion under the surface? Can you feel it with your fingernail? Does a wooden toothpick catch in it?

Now that you know it is there, from what distance are you able to see it knowing that it is there (and recognizing that no one else will be near as discriminating as you while you are wearing it).

And "big deal" in terms of being noticed by strangers or impact upon value or durability...?

Is there a report that confirms it is untreated?

 

[SpinelGarnetTourmaline]

Welcome!

I can't really tell what I'm looking at. Maybe start with some dimensions (of the stone and maybe of the defect) and a full-stone view and then zoom in. Like maybe an 8mm stone and you're guessing it's a 4mm table and the inclusion is a tenth or 20th of that, etc.

Is it a natural? Is it an inclusion under the surface? Can you feel it with your fingernail? Does a wooden toothpick catch in it?

Now that you know it is there, from what distance are you able to see it knowing that it is there (and recognizing that no one else will be near as discriminating as you while you are wearing it).

And "big deal" in terms of being noticed by strangers or impact upon value or durability...?

Is there a report that confirms it is untreated?

The pear is 9mm x 6mm, it is natural, the inclusion does break the surface. By big deal I am more worried about durability and value. I don’t have the gem itself just speaking with the vendor at the moment. Vendor says it is hard to see and I don’t disagree give I could only see it with glare. It does come with a GIA report.

Video link:

https://imgur.com/a/BvdhHMe

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Inclusions in spinel are very common, it's why you pay top dollar for completely clean crystal. I have several with small surface reaching inclusions and as long as it isn't a fracture/crack, should be fine. What's the return policy and how do you feel about the price per carat? I would want a certificate as there has been a lot of oiling happening trying to 'correct' subpar crystal.

 

[LilAlex]

Ah. I have one like that. It is a compromise and should be priced as such. You will quickly become the world's leading expert on locating that. We have a sapphire with a "natural" right at the edge of the table where three facet meet-points come together. It catches the light sometimes and I want to wipe that "speck of lint" off. But it does not bother me. It was fairly and accurately disclosed. And it bumped this pretty stone down to our price-point.

In the video, that looks like a pretty gem. Shallow, I'm guessing, and about 50% light return (?) and a very pretty hue and tone. Others here can (and, hopefully, will) say more.

 

[SpinelGarnetTourmaline]

Ah. I have one like that. It is a compromise and should be priced as such. You will quickly become the world's leading expert on locating that. We have a sapphire with a "natural" right at the edge of the table where three facet meet-points come together. It catches the light sometimes and I want to wipe that "speck of lint" off. But it does not bother me. It was fairly and accurately disclosed. And it bumped this pretty stone down to our price-point.

In the video, that looks like a pretty gem. Shallow, I'm guessing, and about 50% light return (?) and a very pretty hue and tone. Others here can (and, hopefully, will) say more.

Exact dimensions
Origin: Mahenge
9.06 x 6.38 x 5.32 mm
7 day return
Cost is 2931 per carat.


The stone is more pinkish-red indoors
A similar yavorskyy spinel from Mansin was asking 3900 per carat at a 2.27ct cushion cut.

7.82 x 7.24 x 5.07mm

 

[SpinelGarnetTourmaline]

Inclusions in spinel are very common, it's why you pay top dollar for completely clean crystal. I have several with small surface reaching inclusions and as long as it isn't a fracture/crack, should be fine. What's the return policy and how do you feel about the price per carat? I would want a certificate as there has been a lot of oiling happening trying to 'correct' subpar crystal.

It comes with a cert, price per carat isn’t cheap but isn’t the highest possible based on the above comment. Return policy is 7 days. Only other downside is it isn’t from Burma(can’t be labeled “Jedi”) but mahenge gems do still get good prices with this color.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Well, if you feel comfortable with the price, there's no harm in taking a look to see how you feel about it. I would want to get a very good look at the inclusion on the girdle edge and would want to check for pitting or surface reaching inclusions on the back of the stone to make sure there isn't any possible setting complications.
It's a very beautiful color and I think the cut is good. I hope it has fluorescence.
Meh, I don't take much stock in the marketing designations, I just make sure I'm not paying too much of the premium if I can help it.

 

[SpinelGarnetTourmaline]

Well, if you feel comfortable with the price, there's no harm in taking a look to see how you feel about it. I would want to get a very good look at the inclusion on the girdle edge and would want to check for pitting or surface reaching inclusions on the back of the stone to make sure there isn't any possible setting complications.
It's a very beautiful color and I think the cut is good. I hope it has fluorescence.
Meh, I don't take much stock in the marketing designations, I just make sure I'm not paying too much of the premium if I can help it.

Thanks for the info, is does fluorescence under UV similar to a Burmese stone and there is a research paper with Mahenge spinels containing similar trace element ratios. Yeah as long as the stone is easily mounted without damage I think it would be ideal in shape. I love pears for pendants.

 

[LilAlex]

i see -- and thank you for the details. I was wrong -- it is deep and not shallow. Maybe a shallow crown? Not sure how I got that "shallow" vibe but no matter. Maybe that very subtle rocking video which keeps the pavilion hidden.

Price? Who knows? For a premium stone, it's always hard to gauge. And how much is your time worth? And how likely are you to send back a suboptimal one and not get saddled with a "gem-jar queen" that will never see the light of day? I vote to take a look at it in person, assuming there is a return policy (and I know you have the report angle covered).

 

[SpinelGarnetTourmaline]

i see -- and thank you for the details. I was wrong -- it is deep and not shallow. Maybe a shallow crown? Not sure how I got that "shallow" vibe but no matter. Maybe that very subtle rocking video which keeps the pavilion hidden.

Price? Who knows? For a premium stone, it's always hard to gauge. And how much is your time worth? And how likely are you to send back a suboptimal one and not get saddled with a "gem-jar queen" that will never see the light of day? I vote to take a look at it in person, assuming there is a return policy (and I know you have the report angle covered).

Finewater put the gem on sale when I woke up this morning and I went for it. To make things more complicated Mr. Spinel quoted me 1k per carat on this.

Seems like too good of a price to be legit I got quotes from 1-1.5k per carat on large stones. 2-5k seemed pretty standard in my search so to have a price for a red that low just seems suspicious to me. Anyone know if this is his real IG?

 

[lovedogs]

Finewater put the gem on sale when I woke up this morning and I went for it. To make things more complicated Mr. Spinel quoted me 1k per carat on this.

Seems like too good of a price to be legit I got quotes from 1-1.5k per carat on large stones. 2-5k seemed pretty standard in my search so to have a price for a red that low just seems suspicious to me. Anyone know if this is his real IG?

Yup that's his real ig, but I would want an in hand pic because that's way to low of a price for a color that good

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Yeah, I'd want to see it in pictures and video, because if that's truly represented-I'd buy it in a heartbeat. That's seriously cheap ppc.
I'd want to know if he has any more

Though, until we can see pictures, I still like the first you posted better, the color is fantastic and I prefer the proportions of the pear. It's only the little girdle natural that gives any pause. And it is the color we're after when we buy CS, after all.

 

[SpinelGarnetTourmaline]

Yup that's his real ig, but I would want an in hand pic because that's way to low of a price for a color that good

Yeah, I'd want to see it in pictures and video, because if that's truly represented-I'd buy it in a heartbeat. That's seriously cheap ppc.
I'd want to know if he has any more

Though, until we can see pictures, I still like the first you posted better, the color is fantastic and I prefer the proportions of the pear. It's only the little girdle natural that gives any pause. And it is the color we're after when we buy CS, after all.

Exactly, the color look really amazing on all of Finewater’s Mahenge it gave me a very Jedi-ish pinkish-red color that I couldn’t pass up at 2.5k ppc. Finewater’s prices seemed very good especially for the ideal 3ct. I was shocked at 1k a carat because if that’s the case I will become a gem retailer today . I will keep you posted on that one.

I figured Mr.Spinel was quoting me some very pale pink prices because I feel like any solid pink or red spinel is going for 1.5k ppc minimum for just the color. Then add on 1-4k for clarity, cut and size but even a sleepy neon pink isn’t cheap. I will let you know what happens there.

I also noticed PSers said good things about Finewater’s photos vs reality and I know pink-red gems never look the same in any light and I have trouble photographing spinels generally. I am confident it will be exactly what I was hoping for. It arrives Thursday will post some updates then as well.

Also got this from a research paper on Mansin Jedi spinels and I figure this applies to Mahenge as well given they have similar chemical compositions.



The video looks like the sunlight while the studio images looked more like the 5000K-2700K range. I notice similar changes with a rubellite based on light intensity maybe temperature as well.

 

[Neptune]

I like how you’ve done a lot of studies before buying! Hope the FW pear works out and look forward to seeing your photos.

 

[LilAlex]

OK is it just me or did anyone else -- however briefly -- think these were awfully expensive?

 

[SpinelGarnetTourmaline]

OK is it just me or did anyone else -- however briefly -- think these were awfully expensive?

For Burna, Mahenge or red spinel in general? Or do you mean because they have a ruby like color/fluorescence?

 

[LilAlex]

For Burna, Mahenge or red spinel in general? Or do you mean because they have a ruby like color/fluorescence?

I just meant that my eyes went right to the "2700K" and that seemed like a lot of money. I literally dd think that for a split second until I saw the progression and went to Kelvin, not thousand.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

OK is it just me or did anyone else -- however briefly -- think these were awfully expensive?

Hahaha, yes. This is spinel, it wouldn't be a surprise

 

[SpinelGarnetTourmaline]

20k per carat okay then. Mr Spinel said staff would get back to me regarding videos/flour

 

[LilAlex]

^ USD?!

Oof -- gone the way of Paraiba and Burma ruby and Kashmir sapphire (and SS Rolex and Taylor tix and...). Freakin' internet ruinin' everything.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Absolutely not! I love spinel more than any other variety but that's exorbitant. Outrageous. And as much as I love it, it isn't a ruby. Those are ruby prices.

 

[SpinelGarnetTourmaline]

Absolutely not! I love spinel more than any other variety but that's exorbitant. Outrageous. And as much as I love it, it isn't a ruby. Those are ruby prices.

Completely agree, 20k per carat pretty much means top of the line rubies from Burma. Maybe they are waiting for someone confused by the difference cause that is obscene in my mind.

 

[SpinelGarnetTourmaline]

I looked up the GIA cert on Yavorskyy’s 2.27 cushion cut and on the GIA website I see this:



Yavorskyy website shows this.

AIGS Guide


I felt based on Yavorskyy’s picture that the stone looked like a gem on the bottom right of the Jedi box maybe the one to the right of that. (Second row from the bottom, 3rd column from the right ). When I got the GIA image I was amazed that it reminded me of one of the Jedi colors and his picture made me think it was too far on the pink scale. Regardless now I know Yavorskyy’s jedi pictures don’t match standard GIA/GSR lighting so I check the certs to get a standardized comparison.

 

[SpinelGarnetTourmaline]

The Mahenge spinel from Finewater got here and it is amazing. Has all the characteristics of a Mahenge/Jedi Spinel I was looking for. The Finewater pictures were perfect. Great UV reactions to long and medium wave. Didn’t test short wave but that isn’t needed for spinels. It lacks so much darkness it shines from any angle, could flip it upside down it still has brilliance. My pictures and videos don’t do it justice. Thank you Finewater!

2 videos

https://imgur.com/a/l8mmBj3

 

[LilAlex]

I don't think it's possible to communicate super-accurate color descriptions (like Jedi, etc.) with photos or videos. You will need to see it in person and next to a color archetype, imo.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

That's absolutely lovely, and a fair price. I'm happy for you, you got yourself a keeper!

 

[SpinelGarnetTourmaline]

I don't think it's possible to communicate super-accurate color descriptions (like Jedi, etc.) with photos or videos. You will need to see it in person and next to a color archetype, imo.

I 100% agree, I think Finewater offered the most realistic photos, a good price, and great customer service so I am really happy. My wife is out of town and I told her the same thing. The pictures won't do it justice. Gem photography is hard, that is all I know for sure. I will say Gary's pictures are some of the most accurate given what feels like an impossible task.

That's absolutely lovely, and a fair price. I'm happy for you, you got yourself a keeper!

Thank you! I couldn't be happier, thank you for all of the help, this was my first gem purchase online and PSers helped me with this both in historical threads and of course this one. Thank you all again.

I am still following up with Mr Spinel, the time difference means I will probably hear back tonight.

 

[JewelledEscalators]

The Mahenge spinel from Finewater got here and it is amazing. Has all the characteristics of a Mahenge/Jedi Spinel I was looking for. The Finewater pictures were perfect. Great UV reactions to long and medium wave. Didn’t test short wave but that isn’t needed for spinels. It lacks so much darkness it shines from any angle, could flip it upside down it still has brilliance. My pictures and videos don’t do it justice. Thank you Finewater!

2 videos

https://imgur.com/a/l8mmBj3

Ah I saw that stone on Finewater's website and thought it looked lovely. I'm glad it's gone to a P'ser so we all get to oggle your pics too!

 

[lovedogs]

It's great!