Red spinel - that 'ruby' red

[Midsommer]

Hi all,

I'm new!

Has been fun learning more about colored stones from your posts & seeing your beautiful pieces - I've always loved gems and collected less precious versions (except for my special piece of rhodochrosite that is too delicate to set).

I've been charged with the job of finding a 'ruby' ring for someone - on further research it seems like what it commonly thought of as ruby is spinel - and this family member really wants the deep, ruby red colour instead of pink/purple tones.....so spinel it is. (they are more concerned with colour vs name)

So - do you have any advice on the best place to source a 1-2 carat oval ruby red spinel? Or an antique/estate ring with those features?
They prefer yellow gold.

I'm in the midst of studying for exams so I can't give it my full attention but I would really appreciate your advice (those of you who have located spinels - where you found it, where you got it set etc) or any other tips?

Thanking you!!

 

[innerkitten]

Don't you hate it that rhodocrosite is so soft! It's such a pretty color. Have you been following any of the other spinel and ruby threads? There are a few others going right now that might have some useful info.

There are some ovals on this page. If you get close to 7x5 or 6x8 it will be easy to fit into a commercial setting.
http://www.gemfix.com/spinel.html

 

[innerkitten]

Wonder what this one is like in person.
http://gemcal.com/red-spinel-2-33-cts-2378a

 

[chrono]

You should look for Burmese spinels as they tend to be deeper toned and more red than pink or purple. Many have varying degrees of orange though. If you get something a tad purplish, setting it in yellow gold will "neutralize" the purple to help it look redder. This is commonly done with purplish red rubies to help them look redder.

With estate rings, you need to be cognizant of synthetics. You have not mentioned your budget but need to be aware that the purer the red hue and the higher the saturation, pricing can easily veer into the $1000/ct range and upwards.

 

[Midsommer]

Don't you hate it that rhodocrosite is so soft! It's such a pretty color. Have you been following any of the other spinel and ruby threads? There are a few others going right now that might have some useful info.

There are some ovals on this page. If you get close to 7x5 or 6x8 it will be easy to fit into a commercial setting.
http://www.gemfix.com/spinel.html

Ah yes - the rhodocrosite actually looks like a ruby - but in the shape of a gorgeous raspberry - present from my (geologist) uncle.

Thanks - I have checked the other threads - the gemfix stones seem very beautiful and so much variation in colour. Thanks for info on sizing for a setting! The gemcal site surprised me - such variation in cost of spinels, sort of at 100-300 level then jumps up in price - is this about clarity? Have you used this site?

You should look for Burmese spinels as they tend to be deeper toned and more red than pink or purple.

With estate rings, you need to be cognizant of synthetics. You have not mentioned your budget but need to be aware that the purer the red hue and the higher the saturation, pricing can easily veer into the $1000/ct range and upwards.

Chrono - you've hit the nail on the head with my fear of estate rings - no documents/certification on the majority and I suspect a lot are synthetic. The guaranteed rubies/spinels in decent condition are thousands plus and tend to be set with diamond, topaz etc. It may be better 'value' to find a Burma spinel and have it set. I think she wants a fairly unfussy setting - focus on the actual stone.

If you stumble on any estate/antique spinels that seem reputable and not astronomical in cost (looking mainly for under 2 carat) then I would be very grateful but otherwise I might just let her know that it may be easier to control the process by finding a loose stone.

So - gemfix as starting point, a lot of people in threads mention Barry or Dana as 'cutters' - are there certain people who tend to produce spinels with some certs? Ie "known" for spinels ?

Thanks for your help guys

 

[FrekeChild]

Gemcal is reputable. There is a huge disparity between colors of stones because of the different colors-reds, blues, and hot pinks are the most desirable and therefore the most expensive. Anything with a gray or brown modifiers will have it reflected in the price.

 

[chrono]

PS recommended lapidaries are able to differentiate natural from synthetics, and so they knowingly offer only natural gemstones. Slight nuances in colour greatly affects pricing so you need to be able to see the differences in hue, tone and saturation.

 

[Jereni]

This looks nice, although it seems to have orange flashes. Not sure if you want that?

http://www.ajsgem.com/gemstones/spinel/spinel-1.42-carats.html-0

 

[Midsommer]

Wow - that's lovely! Is there a way to get more pics from AJS? (natural light, on the hand to guesstimate proportions)

I think spinel is obviously more affordable.....but,

I think she does actually want a "real" ruby now (!!) - so ill keep my eye out. Still oval, under 2 carats. Prefers the red tones to pink tones.

(it's for ruby wedding anniversary)

 

[chrono]

As Jereni mentioned, the spinel posted above is more brownish orange with a tinge of red in there somewhere rather than a ruby red. AJS is not open to additional pictures the past few years, but from experience, the saturation on the stone IRL will be one notch less than pictured. To get an estimate on size, draw it out on a piece of paper, then cut it out and place it on your finger.

 

[airplay355]

If you print this out, it should be to scale (or very very close).

 

[airplay355]

Actually, I tried printing it and it didn't work out so well. The image is to scale on my monitor, hopefully it is on yours too!

 

[pregcurious]

That spinel looks really dark when shrunk to actual size.

 

[Midsommer]

That spinel looks really dark when shrunk to actual size.

Doesn't it? And you see the orange-brown tinge too.

From other threads - seems AJS pictures are a bit brighter than the stone in real life.

Well......I've narrowed the hunt down (in terms of preference)

Now I'm hunting emerald-cut rubies (in rings or loose for setting) - can't see any on gemfix or AJS - if anyone comes across one online (1 carat or under) - would be grateful! Doesn't have to be unheated.

 

[slksapphire]

what about this one? emerald cut in ruby will generally be harder to find than oval or cushion ...

http://www.rwwise.com/products/id|1288

 

[Starzin]

Now I'm hunting emerald-cut rubies (in rings or loose for setting) - can't see any on gemfix or AJS - if anyone comes across one online (1 carat or under) - would be grateful! Doesn't have to be unheated.

Do you have a ballpark budget ?
Have you read the sticky at the top of the coloured stone forum about being new to coloured stone buying?
Have you followed the two recent threads about finding rubies?

It would help us to help you and also prevent us having to repeat all the (valuable) information contained within them

ETA: Oh well done sllksapphire

 

[Midsommer]

Now I'm hunting emerald-cut rubies (in rings or loose for setting) - can't see any on gemfix or AJS - if anyone comes across one online (1 carat or under) - would be grateful! Doesn't have to be unheated.

Do you have a ballpark budget ?
Have you read the sticky at the top of the coloured stone forum about being new to coloured stone buying?
Have you followed the two recent threads about finding rubies?

It would help us to help you and also prevent us having to repeat all the (valuable) information contained within them

ETA: Oh well done sllksapphire

Answers in order - I believe in region of 5K budget wise - so looking at relatively small ruby (prob heat treated) to be set or also small estate ring. It is for my mother.

I have read the sticky - thanks! Was incredibly useful.

I have tried to follow them - currently preparing for exams so having to dip in and out of them & can't give it full attention - But I did pick up that emerald cut stones are less common (I saw thread earlier by cokitty about one purchased from AJS) and that spinel is good alternative - however my mum actually wants 'real' ruby.

Apologies - not trying to be bothersome & waste anyone's time, just genuinely having trouble actually locating emerald cuts of spinel/ruby online - my search skills are probably not up to speed re jewelry/stones. I'm also I'm Australia so less familiar with vendors for getting stones set but obviously lots of good info on the forum - just need more time to dedicate to this project

LOVE the stone posted above - thanks so much Slksapphire

 

[chrono]

what about this one? emerald cut in ruby will generally be harder to find than oval or cushion ...http://www.rwwise.com/products/id|1288

Nice looking ruby. Looks windowed but as it is dark, it might not be noticeable in person. There is no lab report so I would make that contingent upon final sale to know if it has been treated with more than heat, plus know the level of heating (how much residue) because all this should be reflected in the pricing.

 

[Starzin]

Okay...so $5k is quite a healthy amount and I'm glad you found the articles/threads helpful. There's so much treatment of corundum that it pays to be aware so that you will be happy with the purchase into the future.

Apologies - not trying to be bothersome & waste anyone's time, just genuinely having trouble actually locating emerald cuts of spinel/ruby online - my search skills are probably not up to speed re jewelry/stones. I'm also I'm Australia so less familiar with vendors for getting stones set but obviously lots of good info on the forum - just need more time to dedicate to this project

No apologies necessary, it's hard when your mind is also on study

So how would you feel about 3 emerald cut rubies in a Cartier ring? A bit "plummy" and maybe not what you might pick if you were looking at just buying a single gem but I don't know if the Cartier tag is meaningful to you. It most definitely would be to some.
http://www.rubylane.com/item/490404-CartierRubyDiamondRing/Signed-CARTIER-Ruby-Diamond-Ring

This one has a GIA report stating "unheated" apparently but it's not the one showing on the site. The ring also looks wonky to me on the hand
http://www.rubylane.com/item/490404-GIA131ctNoHeatRuby/Ex78ceptionally-Clean-GIA-Unheated-Ruby

This one is quite the statement piece - not emerald cut and they're throwing around the GIA name but it does NOT have a GIA report.
http://www.rubylane.com/item/723260-5691-27/Magnificent-Natural-Ruby-Diamond-18k

So any of these appeal?

What about the one on Richard Wise's site?

Note that they are 3 different shops at Ruby Lane. Also if you click on the main picture while with the loupe view, it will expand.

 

[chrono]

Starzin,
I'm with you on being skeptical about those rubies. Heavily windowed or with huge tilt windows, brownish purplish hue and nothing to substantiate the claim of them being unheated. No mention of fillers either. This is proof that buying branded or famous names does not automatically equate to a quality item.

 

[Starzin]

I couldn't agree more but I thought I would have a look around Ruby Lane because I know that there are sometimes high end vendors on there (the Russian emerald ring mob for one).

This was interesting I thought...probably have to ditch the pear though, chip and all.
http://www.rubylane.com/item/490404-HArubyring/14k-Ruby-Diamond-Ballerina-Ring

 

[Midsommer]

Okay...so $5k is quite a healthy amount and I'm glad you found the articles/threads helpful. There's so much treatment of corundum that it pays to be aware so that you will be happy with the purchase into the future.

Apologies - not trying to be bothersome & waste anyone's time, just genuinely having trouble actually locating emerald cuts of spinel/ruby online - my search skills are probably not up to speed re jewelry/stones. I'm also I'm Australia so less familiar with vendors for getting stones set but obviously lots of good info on the forum - just need more time to dedicate to this project

No apologies necessary, it's hard when your mind is also on study

So how would you feel about 3 emerald cut rubies in a Cartier ring? A bit "plummy" and maybe not what you might pick if you were looking at just buying a single gem but I don't know if the Cartier tag is meaningful to you. It most definitely would be to some.
http://www.rubylane.com/item/490404-CartierRubyDiamondRing/Signed-CARTIER-Ruby-Diamond-Ring

This one has a GIA report stating "unheated" apparently but it's not the one showing on the site. The ring also looks wonky to me on the hand
http://www.rubylane.com/item/490404-GIA131ctNoHeatRuby/Ex78ceptionally-Clean-GIA-Unheated-Ruby

This one is quite the statement piece - not emerald cut and they're throwing around the GIA name but it does NOT have a GIA report.
http://www.rubylane.com/item/723260-5691-27/Magnificent-Natural-Ruby-Diamond-18k

So any of these appeal?

Thanks for your searching!

The first is a nice, elegant design - but the rubies seem a bit wine/brown toned? (i.e. probably not quite what she wants colour wise)

Second seems a bit wobbly - ruby is set off centre? Wonky is a good word!

Third - not really her style.

Think it might be looking like - to get the ideal ring - source a stone and get it made - most of the estate pieces are the setting with central oval ruby and diamonds around. Her preference is emerald cut east to west. obviously would be great to have natural unheated ruby but realistically - with emerald cuts being harder to locate - settling for heat treatment is ok provided we know the proper details.

What about the one on Richard Wise's site?

It's very pretty and colour seems very vibrant/right tone. What do you (and chrono) think about the price? For the carat size, it seems very similarly priced to those oval cut heated Burma stones on gemfix.

Nice looking ruby. Looks windowed but as it is dark, it might not be noticeable in person. There is no lab report so I would make that contingent upon final sale to know if it has been treated with more than heat, plus know the level of heating (how much residue) because all this should be reflected in the pricing.

Should I send an email asking about whether a lab report exists - or would he generally have those details to hand? (imagine he has bought it from somewhere with evidence of the history of stone?).

As a consumer, how would I negotiate price based on information about heating (ie if it had significant evidence of residue - should it be cheaper than $1600?)

I'm not in a hurry to purchase so I can be a bit relaxed about making sure it is a decent stone.

Thanks for your help everyone

 

[chrono]

RW's inventory is typically higher than most because I've read that he hand selects his stones. If there is a lab memo, it is generally also noted online, therefore I presume this has none. I don't know if he is open to negotiation but I highly advise you to read his policies (viewing and return period, shipping and refunds) first before contacting him about the ruby.

 

[Midsommer]

Good advice, thanks - seems like any uncertified stones under 2K (which this is) are certified at cost to the buyer, they cover cost if the stone is over 2K. If no details are mentioned, it means no certification re extent of heat treatment currently exists.

So I'd have to make an assessment based on the pictures......which is risky as a complete amateur. Probably wise to get it properly assessed.

I suppose it wouldn't be out of the question to ask for more pictures of the stone first.

 

[chrono]

It is worth asking but based on prior experience, you are unlikely to get hand shots. He does not do the photography himself and employs professionals to do it for him.

 

[Starzin]

Chrono has covered most of it but the Return/Shipping policies are hard to see (pale text in the line below the menu) so here it is http://www.rwwise.com/buying_online.html.

It brings up an important point. Being in Australia means that shipping a stone to look at and then return, is lengthy and can get expensive because normally you would pay for the stone, receive it and decide if you are going to keep it, then send it off for an AGL brief report - $65 - and then receive the gem and the report back (assuming the stone ticks all the boxes).

For you this would mean two trips in and out of OZ and all shipping charges which can get quite expensive. There is no customs duty on gems under $1000 but you do have to pay GST.

I just saw your response while I was posting this - I think I'd want a few photos in different lighting and perhaps a video which he now has the ability to do.

 

[Starzin]

So I'd have to make an assessment based on the pictures......which is risky as a complete amateur. Probably wise to get it properly assessed.

While Richard has a good reputation, he is not infallible - it's up to you whether you opt for the gem brief before having it shipped to make a decision. However as I see it, the biggest problem is judging whether it is going to be a colour and gem that you like in hand before going to the expense of AGL and shipping.

It looks to be a good contender but will it go dead in hand? May be worth an email to see if he will Skype with you?

 

[Midsommer]

I have emailed and received a kind reply - he is sending some additional pictures to me.

He is happy to get report as condition of sale & cover cost, he just tends not to when it is stated as treated (as reports more useful for ensuring something is not treated when listed as unheated) - no fillers apparently.

So.....I just wait to see what I think size-wise and color-wise. Wondering if 0.8 carat will be bit small. Perhaps some side stones (diamonds)

 

[Starzin]

Oh good. It's always better to ask rather than assume so I'm pleased you got in touch.

So the ruby is going off for a gem brief and then shipping to you if all is okay? Did he say how long this might take?

 

[chrono]

It's great that he's taking additional pictures for you. Hand shots? Yes, it's good to see the colour and size to first decide whether it is a contender before the expense and hassle of sending it off to a lab. For me, the amount of residue matters, so just to say heat only isn't enough information.