Resentment....

[decodelighted]

Date: 3/4/2008 3:46:53 PM
Author: Codependent Gal
I think that I am so frustrated at this point because we are now in our late 20s. I feel like this is my last chance - if I don''t end up marrying him, I feel like I have one last chance to find someone else before it''s too late to be able to marry someone else and have a few years of being married without having children. I fear that i will get to be 30 and marry any nerd or loser that I might be dating at the time. I really don''t like the sense of urgency I feel. He is good looking and tall and successful and I know that a lot of other women find him to be very desirable. I don''t want to have visible crows feet, grey hair and jiggly upper arms in my wedding pictures! I know that I *should* be out buying my own home and having a great job and not worrying about getting married so much, but I can''t help it.. auurgh.

Ooooof. This just makes me so *sad* for you. I know you said it was a particularly bad day - so I''ll try to take it as an exaggeration ... but

Probably because, as a 40 year-old newlywed who never gave a passing THOUGHT to a trip down the aisle until, um, maybe 35 ... I''m kinda living your nightmare! Only it''s AWESOME!

No matter WHAT happens, you''ll be okay. I wish for all the twentysomethings out there to really SAVOR the time you''re having now & not be so anxious for more/next/better/etc. Of course it''s impossible for you guys to do that. And you won''t see middle-age as being less than grotesque & toxic until you''re in the middle of it smiling & thinking "Hey, self, NOT BAD!"

 

[Patiently_Waiting]

Date: 3/4/2008 4:56:41 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 3/4/2008 3:46:53 PM
Author: Codependent Gal
I think that I am so frustrated at this point because we are now in our late 20s. I feel like this is my last chance - if I don''t end up marrying him, I feel like I have one last chance to find someone else before it''s too late to be able to marry someone else and have a few years of being married without having children. I fear that i will get to be 30 and marry any nerd or loser that I might be dating at the time. I really don''t like the sense of urgency I feel. He is good looking and tall and successful and I know that a lot of other women find him to be very desirable. I don''t want to have visible crows feet, grey hair and jiggly upper arms in my wedding pictures! I know that I *should* be out buying my own home and having a great job and not worrying about getting married so much, but I can''t help it.. auurgh.

Ooooof. This just makes me so *sad* for you. I know you said it was a particularly bad day - so I''ll try to take it as an exaggeration ... but

Probably because, as a 40 year-old newlywed who never gave a passing THOUGHT to a trip down the aisle until, um, maybe 35 ... I''m kinda living your nightmare! Only it''s AWESOME!

No matter WHAT happens, you''ll be okay. I wish for all the twentysomethings out there to really SAVOR the time you''re having now & not be so anxious for more/next/better/etc. Of course it''s impossible for you guys to do that. And you won''t see middle-age as being less than grotesque & toxic until you''re in the middle of it smiling & thinking ''Hey, self, NOT BAD!''

Great advice as always, deco! I myself admit to feeling a tweak of anxiety in my 20s (i.e. Will this ever happen? Will I remain a spinster for life?). Twentysomethings need to know that no matter what happens, you WILL be okay! I had a bad breakup in my late 20s, but then I took some time off from dating to figure out what I wanted. I saved up money. I bought my own house. It was the best thing I could have done for me. And now I''m in a great relationship, but also I''m just enjoying life and not stressing over when/if it will happen, because I know I have survived, I can take care of myself, and I will be fine in the end no matter what life may throw my way. What matters most is "Am I happy?" - and I can honestly say at this point that I am loving life.

 

[isaku5]

Our DD had been divorced for about a year when she met "the man of her dreams". They had an on and off relationship for about seven years, but had never lived together. He told her within the first 6 months that he wasn''t going to marry anyone Of course, she was heartbroken and we held hands and cried for an afternoon. Shortly after that she started working nights and weekends on her CGA (Certified General Accountant) designation. She questioned even starting it because she''d be 40 when she graduated. My response to that was that she''d be 40 anyway so might as well go ahead. She was still seeing S, but they broke up repeatedly after about 6 months. After the last breakup, she talked to him on the phone if he called, but refused dinner dates etc. saying that she was looking for a husband, not a dinner date. During that time she had saved enough to buy her own townhouse and become quite settled in her job and studies. To anyone who asked, she said she wasn''t going to "settle" until the right guy came along.

A few months passed and one day the "dream man" came to her place of work and asked her to marry him. She said that she''d think about it. To say he was dumbfounded would be an understatement! His whole family were planning a lovely dinner for the newly engaged couple. After all, who could resist that handsome guy? He attended the celebratory dinner alone.

He called about every two weeks to see whether she''d made up her mind and her response was always the same: I''m thinking about it. After six months and having worked together to build a deck for her townhouse during the last month, she agreed to marry him. That was in October and the wedding for ~ 300 was the following February 28th 1998. They just celebrated their 10th anniversary.

Sorry for the long post, but my point is that when she was very settled in her own life and he saw that she was doing very well on her own, that''s when the proposal came. She was 34 when they married and 37 when their daughter was born.

Motto: Don''t wait for a man to make your life complete; work on your life and the rest will fall into place.

Please don''t wait around for a guy who isn''t ready to commit; you have better things to do with your time.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 3/4/2008 3:46:53 PM
Author: Codependent Gal
Am I going to have to tell our grandchildren ''Oh, your pop-pop didn''t want to marry your gam-gam but I gave him several ultimatums and was a real psycho until he finally coughed up a ring, it was so romantic!''?

Oh my God, Co Gal, I laughed out loud for like a minute when I read this line! That''s so real! I bet many, many women could say that to their future grandchildren.

I was definitely resentful before the engagement came, probably mostly because he just didn''t seem to be doing anything to buy me a damn ring. So kind of different reasons, but the resentment was there. I was pretty much positive he wanted to get engaged, but he is very slow to act on any decision, so I was just over waiting! I had been researching diamonds and settings for months, so I finally asked/told him in January of last year that I was going to start finding a diamond for myself. He said that was a-okay, so I went ahead and picked out my diamond and custom designed my setting at WF. (I should point out that I wanted to pick out the diamond and ring myself the whole time because I''m super picky and I had done so much research, but he wanted to surprise me, so I was actually very happy when he agreed to let me pick everything out.)

The resentment did dissipate after we got engaged, and probably a bit before since I knew the engagement was coming for sure once I picked out the ring and he paid for it. However, I will admit to a bit of a relieved/"finally!" feeling once we were engaged. But I was definitely excited and happy also.

I do sometimes wish he had just surprised me once we decided for sure we would be getting married. (That was about 1.5-2 years before we got engaged-we dated for 4 years exactly before we got engaged.) I really only got so obsessed with diamonds because I researched for forever and ever and ever. So he could have saved some serious money by proposing sooner, too!

Oh well- at least I have an awesome ring!

 

[designchica]

I don''t know if I''m resentful, but we are already wedding planning and I don''t even have the ring yet. I had to tell him yesterday that my mom is not going to give me any money to reserve the ceremony location until I have a ring on my finger. I wasnt feeling resentful but perhaps a little annoyed. "Dude, where''s the ring already?!"

The fact that he just bought a new watch that cost 4K on Saturday while we were out looking for rings did make me a little jealous, but I got over it pretty quickly. I figure if he''s about to spend 30K on a ring, he deserves a nice watch!

 

[HollyS]

Once I stopped focusing on what he wasn't doing in the relationship, and enjoyed what we had -- and it was all good -- he eventually came around to embracing the idea of marriage all by himself.

This was not a quick process; and that's no understatement! We have dated exclusively since meeting in 1994, got engaged in 2006, and married in 2007. Yep, you read correctly. Neither of us gave marriage a real thought until we were at least five years into the relationship; we just weren't ready. We started as a blind lunch date, became friends, became more than friends, and along the way, we helped each other through illnesses, the death of a parent each, job changes, and moving (3 times on my part). We had been single (he was many years divorced; I was never married before) for a very long time, had our independence, were set in our ways; you name it, we embodied the cliche. We had a great deal of baggage to lay down ourselves before we felt we could carry any of the other's load.

I became ready for planning our future about 5 yrs before he did. Three or four times I addressed the 'elephant in the room' and asked the questions we all ask eventually. The last time I 'had the talk' I resolved to get myself emotionally prepared to walk away if he just could not make a commitment. And I would have. In the meantime, a woman therapist asked a very important question of him: "What would your life be like without her; and can you live with never seeing her again if she leaves you?" That apparently was just the right kick in the pants for him. He hadn't fully understood that he really was going to lose me.

We've been married 4 months, and he is over the moon! Really. He can't stop talking about how happy he is, how great married life is, how wonderful I am, etc, etc! I get cards and presents every 'monthiversary'. (And I'm not wonderful, and we don't dp anything special; he's just being 'newlywed giddy'.) And I don't even say "I told you so." Maybe I am wonderful after all.

Do I have any resentment about the years he spent sitting on that fence? Honestly, no. He made his decision when it was right for him; and I think it has heightened his appreciation for me and for our marriage. So many things about the timing of our wedding, our house becoming available at the right time, etc. lead us to believe that we were both ready for this big event exactly when it was supposed to happen.

And, oh by the way, I'm 48 going on 49. Yes, I did have to get used to the idea that we would not have children; but you DO NOT get married because you want children. You get married because you love each other; any byproduct of the relationship, kids included, is just icing on the cake ( to use a wedding metaphor).

 

[LaraOnline]

My husband and I dated for 3 months before we got engaged...and he was the one that brought up getting married, and he was the one who started ring shopping...And to this day, we''ve never had a serious fight, we love each madly, and our relationship is amazing on all levels. I''m proud of what we have...and I hope the advice (most of it I used myself) helps you during the next few months!
- Italiahaircolor

Once again a fabulous discussion in a fabulous forum. Women really to be able to discuss this kind of stuff openly, honestly... I have a similar story to Italia, and, like Italia, am really happy in my married life.

However, I think women caught in a long term holding pattern against her will DOES have a right to feel angry, confused, hurt...all the stuff that makes you look bad as a LIW.

So many modern women are now unhappily infertile, or having to submit to IVF processes, simply because modern dating methods virtually make women wait beyond the comfort levels of their own bodies. That''s in Australia, anyway.

And that''s just the mechanical aspects of love and families (if you want kids). There is also the little things like your future finances, and your integrity to consider. Maybe modern society prefers to skate on the surface, because for many people, real love is just too hard. Specially when you''re in your twenties?

In the end, humans are self-interested. If they want to marry, they marry. It doesn''t matter if you''re Miss Perfect if the timing or location are wrong. If he''s not doing it for you, and you''re not having fun, prioritize your own well-being first. It''s what a man would do.

And, like us oldies know, there''s plenty of time for true love to come your way.

A lot of guys become real interested in family life after the age of 30. They''re worrying about losing their boyish good looks and starting to reconsider what it''s all about.

Women really do need to be coached in this stuff. Call me a princess, but I was awfully surprised when I realised my (first) long-term boyfriend (aged early twenties) did not equal sex with ''life-long love''. It''s still a shock to me now, and I don''t think I''ll ever get over it!

I''m still resentful!

And my honestly wonderful husband also pushed a lovely woman around the park for years (in his late twenties). When I asked him about it later, he said she was ''too old''. Four years older than him. Perhaps she was bossy?

Revolting. Welcome to planet earth.

 

[LaraOnline]

Sorry everyone if my prev post came across as heavy

 

[brooklyngirl]

Holly, Lara,

The common thread (all pun intended

) in your posts is to resolve when the waiting will be over, and to have it end on your terms. No one can keep us in a holding pattern for too long without our consent. Throughout my time as a LIW, what''s helped me the most is knowing that I am ready to leave on date x, and being content and happy with that decision. I know that I gave it my all, and if it doesn''t work out, well, I''ll be happy anyway and I''ll be leaving with a clear conscience. I can''t begin to tell you how much this helped me -- the LIW breakdowns, while there were a couple, have not been very intense, and nearly stopped. I imagine there would be far less breakdowns for the ladies on this board if they just knew where they stood.

This is the best advice I can give to anyone waiting for their SO to make the commitment.

As far as marriage at a later point in life vs. younger ladies wanting to get marrie *now*. I think that while older people are set in their ways, in a sense, younger people are too. Some people have a picture of what their life will be like in their 20s, 30''s, etc., and they become very set in that expectation, and when it starts to creep up on them that life isn''t going to pan out the way they planned.... well you know the rest. It takes adjustment to live a life you didn''t think you would (being single) just as much as it is, if an older person who''s used to living alone, get''s married, and has to think about someone else, after all those years.

Either way, I am glad everything worked out for you ladies! It gives hope to the rest of us.

 

[HollyS]

For many years I thought, "This is it. I''m destined to be single. Yuck, I''m an old maid." Our society (and I can only speak of the US, but I assume other ''western'' cultures are similiar) wants us to pair up and mate. Period. We consider anything else to be unnatural by nature. And we buy into it -- hook, line, and sinker. We start to wonder "what''s wrong with us?"; we start believing we are somehow damaged. If I had a nickel for every time someone asked me why I was single, I would be quite wealthy -- and retired! And, worst of all, it is apparently the woman''s fault if she is single; men can stay bachelors for as long as they wish. (Unless they still live with Mom; then people begin to wonder.

)

This is extremely unhealthy for women, and I believe leads to most of the ''woe is me'' posts that pop up in LIW. The LIWs have been conditioned to marry young, have babies, and live ''happily ever after''. When society''s timeline doesn''t jive with the real life we''re living, we panic. We settle. For the guy who was the first real relationship, or our first sexual experience, or the one we agreed to live with. I''ve got a string of ''used-to-be'' boyfirends in my past that weren''t the one. Even when they told me they were -- the weren''t. And thank God, somehow, I was smart enough to NOT marry them. Any one of those relationships could and probably would have ended in divorce.

Those of us who are older just want to tell the LIWs to relax. If you have a great relationship, enjoy it for what it is at this moment. If your guy is actually avoiding commitment, you will know. Give him a little space and time if you are both really young (under 26 for instance); pressure to move forward will not yeild the result you want.

 

[LaraOnline]

Hi there Brooklyn,
The big problem with relating is that it''s actually a two-person dance. If the fella doesn''t know the steps, or doesn''t want to play (or play fair/nice) what can you do?
And, just because they don''t want to be fair to you, it actually doesn''t mean they''re not a nice person. Awful isn''t it?

I wish I could be all hearts and flowers. I wish I hadn''t had to have more than one boyfriend, actually.
But (on the bright side) the man I''m with now is definitely the right guy for me. But perhaps if we''d got together earlier, he wouldn''t have been nice at all?!!
People grow, and a lot happens when they realise they''re not going to stay young forever.
But our culture does not really recognise, let alone support, that process. (IMHO)

Also, even female horses will not have ''relations'' with a male unless she is actually ovulating. Yes, she has a cl*t (sorry). But animals seem, in their instinct, to be clearer about what the point of ''relating'' is. Women here have so many social pressures, that their biological instinct to pair up is just belittled. I think that''s cultural cruelty, and in extreme cases where women are delayed beyond their fertility, could almost be seen as emotionally abusive. Our culture doesn''t really play up the ''responsibility'' line in love. It''s more ''take what you want out of it''.

I''m actually a really romantic person. But I''ll be trying to get my little girl to see that not all people see the world in similar terms...and that not ''getting real'' can actually put her at a disadvantage in the physical world.

It''s kind of if-you-can''t-beat-them-join- them, or play-in-the-mud-get-dirty, which is sad.

But at least I didn''t end up with my first love. He was a schmuck!