Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!!

[Dougsgirl]

Hi Everyone...

I have a dilemma and need some advice...

I have never insured a piece of jewelry before. My new ring is the first piece I've ever owned that is worth enough that it wouldn't be covered under my home owner's policy. My insurance agent told me I needed to have the rings appraised before they could be insured. We plan to insure them for replacement value.
So, last week, as soon as my rings were finished, my jeweler (Greenlake) sent them to the appraiser that that they use. This is an independent appraiser, not one who works for them. I paid $150 to have both of my new rings appraised, and I never spoke to the appraiser. I got the rings shipped to me, then yesterday the appraisal report arrived in the mail. It is a very official document, and the appraiser appears to have very solid credentials.

It is directly stated that the purpose of the appraisal is for insurance purposes, and to determine "replacement value" for the rings should something happen to them. It states that "Replacement cost, new, is the cost necessary to replace the item being appraised with new items of like kind, quality and utility. This definition assumes that an exact substitute can be found for the property being appraised."

Here's the problem...
The appraisal for my E-ring came back with a "Retail replacement cost, New" of over $6,000 less than what I just paid for it!
As a matter of fact... The assumed "value" of the ring came back $1000 less than what I paid for the diamond alone!
And so, obviously, there is NO WAY I could replace my ring for the amount of money they are saying it's worth.

This is what I think happened, and I don't know how to address it...
In the description of my ring it calls my diamond a "Cushion Brilliant", and it gives all of the specs for my stone. The problem is that my stone is not JUST a cushion brilliant, it is an AVC (August Vintage Cushion), which most of you know is a proprietary cut that is only sold by one manufacturer and is a LOT more expensive than a regular "cushion brilliant". When I did a James Allen search for a cushion diamond of my size, color and clarity... the results came back with prices that were close to HALF of what I paid for my AVC. ($8k-ish for the JA stones, my AVC was over $15k)

So, I think the appraiser (who is an Independent Certified Gemologist Appraiser (AGS), and a Graduate Gemologist (GIA) ) is appraising my ring based on the current prices for "average" cushion-cut diamonds.

How do I tell her... "Hey, you got this wrong. My ring is a "special" cut, which I did a lot of research on and paid more for intentionally because it was what I wanted. And so for a true "replacement value" I need at least another $8k tacked onto this number!"
She is the professional. I have about 5 minutes of "internet knowledge" surrounding diamond cuts and quality. She is a gemologist! Is she just going to laugh at me??
Is an AVC really no different that any other "cushion brilliant" when it comes to insurance appraisals? All I know is I can't replace my ring for the value they gave me.

Oh... and one more thing...
The appraisal for my second ring (the wedding band) came back fairly accurately... except for one small detail... The description says under "Mounting"... "Style: The ring is a five stone band style that features five Round Brilliant cut diamonds...)
My ring is a SIX-stone. There is even a picture of it photo-copied onto this report. Very definitely SIX diamonds, all in a row, all the same size.
Oddly... they got the carat-weight right (.90 ct total weight) which would be accurate for six diamonds that are all .15 cts. But even in the section under "Diamonds" (separate from the description of the mounting) it says "Quantity: five".

So... I am frustrated. And I feel stupid because I'm nervous to call, because I've never done this before and I don't want to sound like an idiot. But I know I need to have the proper value established before I can insure my rings.

Does anyone have any experience with this??
Thank you!!

 

[Enerchi]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

No experience with this, but I'd call in the morning to discuss this with them directly.

I don't understand the glaringly obvious error with the number of diamonds! Could your appraisal have been switched in error with another client? I doubt it, so I would call.

Odd....very odd...

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

Their valuation does not matter substantively in the sense of suggesting you overpaid. You bought a branded cut and obviously they did not factor this into things. You can either try to talk to the appraiser and get a higher value, showing them your receipts of purchase for the diamond and the setting, or you can ask for a refund and get an appraisal done by someone you select, with whom you can discuss appropriate valuation before you proceed.

ETA: As for the psychology of calling to talk to them, I suppose I approach things differently because in fact I am an expert in my ring, more than they are Put on your big girl panties and cal land say you would like your appraisal changed because it does not reflect what you have. If they don't react appropriately ("Yes, tell me about your concerns?") then move on. I have had appraisers who were total jerks "(me: "My diamond is a branded H&A" him:"Oh that is just marketing crap". Um. Ok, but I still want it listed as such on my papers because I want like kind and quality, and I paid for a branded H&A".)

 

[distracts]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

I would definitely call. If that appraiser can't correct the report, I would use a different one. Or see if you could use your receipts from the purchase of your rings as the appraisal value. (I don't know who you're insuring with, but I am pretty sure JM will use receipts to insure because I think that's what my fiance did.)

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

I would definitely call. If that appraiser can't correct the report, I would use a different one. Or see if you could use your receipts from the purchase of your rings as the appraisal value. (I don't know who you're insuring with, but I am pretty sure JM will use receipts to insure because I think that's what my fiance did.)

They will only use receipts for values under $5k for diamonds.

 

[JaneSmith]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

Dougsgirl, I feel for you. My heart would have sank at the sight of such a shockingly low appraisal.
The fact that they couldn't even count the diamonds on your six stone makes me wonder how much they even looked at your rings.
I can understand feeling nervous about calling, I too loathe confrontation, but you have to find out why such a glaring error was made with the wring and if they took the proprietary cut of your ering into account.

Just when you were so ecstatically happy about your new rings too.
Hugs.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

Show Greenlake the diamond cert from Good Old Gold, explain the specialty cut and tell them you want that documented, show them the sales receipt from GOG, they know the cost of your setting, and have THEM write up a valuation letter for you. That is all you need. I have done it exactly that way once before when I got a diamond set locally. (If they won't do it, then you need to provide all that information to your appraiser and see if they will adjust the price. My insurance allows me to insure with sales receipts, and that really helps.)

I am sorry for the poor appraisal, but I think with specialty cuts that most appraisers have never seen, they have no clue of the price premium unless that information is provided for them.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

The appraiser didn't know what they were appraising. Just have Greenlake appraise it like DS suggested.

 

[Dougsgirl]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

The appraiser didn't know what they were appraising. Just have Greenlake appraise it like DS suggested.

Show Greenlake the diamond cert from Good Old Gold, explain the specialty cut and tell them you want that documented, show them the sales receipt from GOG, they know the cost of your setting, and have THEM write up a valuation letter for you. That is all you need. I have done it exactly that way once before when I got a diamond set locally. (If they won't do it, then you need to provide all that information to your appraiser and see if they will adjust the price. My insurance allows me to insure with sales receipts, and that really helps.)

I am sorry for the poor appraisal, but I think with specialty cuts that most appraisers have never seen, they have no clue of the price premium unless that information is provided for them.

OK... but I have a question...
I told my designer at Greenlake that I needed to have it appraised, and she sent it to their appraiser who comes in every other week. She never even suggested that they could do it in-house. She had all of my information on the diamond and supposedly gave it to the appraiser. (She had photocopies of my appraisal from GOG, but I'm not exactly sure what she copied (ie. just the diamond specs, OR the cost and estimated value from GOG.)

Do you think I should start by contacting my designer at Greenlake before I contact the independent appraiser? My designer is the only one at Greenlake that I have ever dealt with directly. Should I get her suggestion first? I have never gotten the impression from her that this is something she deals with. But I don't know who else to talk to??

 

[Laila619]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

No, I personally would just call the appraiser, not Greenlake.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

No, I personally would just call the appraiser, not Greenlake.

Yes.

But did you pay for the appraisal or was it just part of GL's service to you? If you did not pay, I would just gete another done somewhere else, personally.

 

[Dougsgirl]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

No, I personally would just call the appraiser, not Greenlake.

Yes.

But did you pay for the appraisal or was it just part of GL's service to you? If you did not pay, I would just gete another done somewhere else, personally.

I did pay. I paid $150 for the appraisal of both of my rings. The appraisal came from Sterling Gemological Services Inc.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

I have little patience for appraisers who don't pay attention to details. It makes me question their work. I have seen appraisal reports filled with typos .. totally unacceptable. The example of "5 stone" is bad ... not noting the inscription of "August Vintage" in the diamond also sucks.

Anyways, for insurance purposes - make sure they call out "Old Mine Brilliant" and "August Vintage" in the report. I had my appraiser do this because when you are looking for a "like" replacements - these elements are really important. My appraiser also referenced information on the August Vintage. They should have no problems making these changes for you.

 

[lknvrb4]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

I bought a diamond from GOG and it came with an appraisal, did you get one from them? I used that one from them for my appraisal. It does not help that you bought a branded diamond, which to cost a lot more than one that is not.

 

[kathley]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

Hi. I have lost my ring in the past and also had it insured for replacement value. My insurance company only provided for like diamond (non-branded) at wholesale cost to replace my diamond. My insurnace company's policy does not pay in cash to the policy holder the appraised value. Be sure to talk to your insurance agent and get in writing exactly what they will provide in case of loss.

 

[CaratLover2]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

Oh dear!

Not quite sure how they do things in the US, but here in Europe our insurance company was happy to insure on replacement value based on receipts, provided it was purchased within the last 12 months.

However, even this would not cover replacement costs, as I know for certain that my VC setting would be dearer if I bought it today. Still, it goes some way to covering losses - just in case they get lost or stolen.

You should have received a written valuation from GOG which you purchased your stone. Maybe pass this on to your Appraiser and see what they say?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

Okay, better yet, contact Good Old Gold and ask if you could pay them a small amount to revise your appraisal from them to include the setting. You can't just insure a loose stone, so that is why you need them to add the setting. No one documents the stone qulaity better than GOG. So ask them. But I'd ask them to reflect your sales price for the diamond and setting and not an inflated amount since these stones are already higher than ordinary non-branded, non-precision cut stones.

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

How do I tell her... "Hey, you got this wrong. My ring is a "special" cut, which I did a lot of research on and paid more for intentionally because it was what I wanted. And so for a true "replacement value" I need at least another $8k tacked onto this number!"

Well, ringing her up and telling her just that is a good first step.

The job of an appraiser writing insurance replacement documents is twofold. First is to describe the item sufficiently so that it can be replaced with another of 'like kind and quality' in the case of a loss. The second it to provide funding to cover the expected costs of doing just that. I assure you, if she's an ICGA she knows this.

The first has to do with the weights, grades, counts, dimensions, photographs, etc. This includes the branding. You would only be made whole by the insurer if you had a loss if they replaced with another AVC. If AVC branding is a 'value characteristic', meaning that it's something that can be expected to affect the cost then her task is to make sure this is properly documented in the report and that the price appropriately reflects it. You paid for a genuine XYZ and replacement should be with another genuine XYZ in the case of a loss. In the case of AVC's it's pretty easy. They're only available from one source and they publish their current prices for every single stone online. The only big variables have to do with estimating prices on a future date or if there's nothing remotely 'comparable' currently available. Are diamonds in general and AVC's in particuarl going to go up or down in the next, say, 3 years? That's not a gemological question so we make our best estimate. Usually that's up but ask her. That's what you paid her for. A similar issue may apply to the branding on the mounting by the way. Read the report and ask yourself this ... If my insurer were to use this description and only this description to replace my ring in the case of a loss, is it reasonably likely that I would be happy with the results?

If there's an error, either in terms of correctly identifying the branding, grading or other issues or with something like stone counting, spelling or math, she should have no problem ammending the report with the correct data and provide a correct conclusion supported by the data. All you need do is ask and point out the facts as you know them. She may or may not agree with you, but if she believes there's a source for replacement of comparable goods for less or she believes the description is different from what you were expecting, she'll let you know and she should be prepared to explain to you what the discrepancies are and how shed came to her conclusions. If she's right, take it up with your seller.

I'm curious. You hired an ICGA but never contacted her. How? Did you hire her or did the store?

 

[smitcompton]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

Hi,

I had a smilar problem when appraising a ruby ring. It was wrong on the diamonds surrounding the ruby. When I called the jeweler was nice as pie. He apologized and sent me a corrected version of the report. Call the appraiser first, and explain the problem.

Good Luck

Annette

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

How do I tell her... "Hey, you got this wrong. My ring is a "special" cut, which I did a lot of research on and paid more for intentionally because it was what I wanted. And so for a true "replacement value" I need at least another $8k tacked onto this number!"

Well, ringing her up and telling her just that is a good first step.

The job of an appraiser writing insurance replacement documents is twofold. First is to describe the item sufficiently so that it can be replaced with another of 'like kind and quality' in the case of a loss. The second it to provide funding to cover the expected costs of doing just that. I assure you, if she's an ICGA she knows this.

The first has to do with the weights, grades, counts, dimensions, photographs, etc. This includes the branding. You would only be made whole by the insurer if you had a loss if they replaced with another AVC. If AVC branding is a 'value characteristic', meaning that it's something that can be expected to affect the cost then her task is to make sure this is properly documented in the report and that the price appropriately reflects it. You paid for a genuine XYZ and replacement should be with another genuine XYZ in the case of a loss. In the case of AVC's it's pretty easy. They're only available from one source and they publish their current prices for every single stone online. The only big variables have to do with estimating prices on a future date or if there's nothing remotely 'comparable' currently available. Are diamonds in general and AVC's in particuarl going to go up or down in the next, say, 3 years? That's not a gemological question so we make our best estimate. Usually that's up but ask her. That's what you paid her for. A similar issue may apply to the branding on the mounting by the way. Read the report and ask yourself this ... If my insurer were to use this description and only this description to replace my ring in the case of a loss, is it reasonably likely that I would be happy with the results?

If there's an error, either in terms of correctly identifying the branding, grading or other issues or with something like stone counting, spelling or math, she should have no problem ammending the report with the correct data and provide a correct conclusion supported by the data. All you need do is ask and point out the facts as you know them. She may or may not agree with you, but if she believes there's a source for replacement of comparable goods for less or she believes the description is different from what you were expecting, she'll let you know and she should be prepared to explain to you what the discrepancies are and how shed came to her conclusions. If she's right, take it up with your seller.

I'm curious. You hired an ICGA but never contacted her. How? Did you hire her or did the store?

She said in the original post..."So, last week, as soon as my rings were finished, my jeweler (Greenlake) sent them to the appraiser that that they use. This is an independent appraiser, not one who works for them. I paid $150 to have both of my new rings appraised, and I never spoke to the appraiser. I got the rings shipped to me, then yesterday the appraisal report arrived in the mail."

But great advice, as usual, Neil!

 

[Fly Girl]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

After you get the appraisal corrected, the next step will be to be sure that your insurance agent records all the information in the appraisal and sends it in to the main office. In my case the local State Farm agent (I have a special policy for personal property) wanted to just send in the summary information. That's what they usually do. I stood there and made sure she faxed in the entire appraisal from Good Old Gold, all the ISEE2 graphs, all the photos, the charts, everything. Yes, I was a real pain, but they did it because I insisted. That way if/when I made my claim for a like quality diamond, I know that the insurance company was informed up front about exactly the diamond I have in my ring. Otherwise, I'll get the same size, color and clarity, but cut will be hit or miss. And, cut is what you care about and need to get correct in your replacement diamond.

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

After you get the appraisal corrected, the next step will be to be sure that your insurance agent records all the information in the appraisal and sends it in to the main office. In my case the local State Farm agent (I have a special policy for personal property) wanted to just send in the summary information. That's what they usually do. I stood there and made sure she faxed in the entire appraisal from Good Old Gold, all the ISEE2 graphs, all the photos, the charts, everything. Yes, I was a real pain, but they did it because I insisted. That way if/when I made my claim for a like quality diamond, I know that the insurance company was informed up front about exactly the diamond I have in my ring. Otherwise, I'll get the same size, color and clarity, but cut will be hit or miss. And, cut is what you care about and need to get correct in your replacement diamond.

I give clients a pdf version of the appraisal report for this purpose. Saves paper, saves time and it prevents pages from getting lost.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

Hi. I have lost my ring in the past and also had it insured for replacement value. My insurance company only provided for like diamond (non-branded) at wholesale cost to replace my diamond. My insurnace company's policy does not pay in cash to the policy holder the appraised value. Be sure to talk to your insurance agent and get in writing exactly what they will provide in case of loss.

This is really important information that everyone should check with their insurance provider.

I like Jeweler's Mutual/Perfect Circle because they let you choose the replacement and then they pay the jeweler directly for it. Not a cash out, but the next best thing.

 

[oldminer]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

I know this appraiser. I called her up and found she has already been in touch with the client. This appraiser is a very good one, but apparently she was not made aware of the Branded nature of this diamond. I suppose she ought to have asked about it, so this kind of thing would have een prevented. She also made a typo on the stone count. The original poster on this thread just had the suggested phone chat with the appraiser and I believe everything is being handled in a satisfactory manner with a new report already in the mail with the proper value and stone count. Having a Branded diamond named in your appraisal report is crucial to correctly assessing the replacement value. Not all Branded stones are recognized by every appraiser.

I think, in this case, we all have a satisfactory result, Please share Brand information with your appraiser of choice so that they can research the market which exists for that stone or mounting and allow you to cover the item with sufficient dollar amounts.

 

[Fly Girl]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

Hi. I have lost my ring in the past and also had it insured for replacement value. My insurance company only provided for like diamond (non-branded) at wholesale cost to replace my diamond. My insurnace company's policy does not pay in cash to the policy holder the appraised value. Be sure to talk to your insurance agent and get in writing exactly what they will provide in case of loss.

This is really important information that everyone should check with their insurance provider.

I like Jeweler's Mutual/Perfect Circle because they let you choose the replacement and then they pay the jeweler directly for it. Not a cash out, but the next best thing.

I went through the same thing when I lost my ring. The insurance company will say that they will replace with a diamond like what you had. That's why I insisted on sending in the entire diamond appraisal information to the insurance company with the next stone that I bought. If the insurer doesn't have all that information up front, then they will replace your stone based on the information they have in their files. And, places like State Farm can buy diamonds in bulk at a discount, which is why they want to replace your stone with one of theirs, and not give you the cash to purchase a new one yourself.

In this case, the OP should have a portfolio of information about her diamond from Good Old Gold, and I'm guessing that she did not send that information to the appraiser who appraised the final ring. One way or another, she should make sure that the GOG diamond appraisal information gets to her insurance company.

 

[Dougsgirl]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

OK... Whew!!

First of all... Thank you so much, all of you, for your suggestions and and encouragement!
And thank you, Neil, for explaining to me how the appraisal works and what the appraisers primary job is.

I just got off the phone with the appraiser and she was extremely helpful. (sigh of relief! )
Apparently Greenlake did not provide her with the information that my diamond is a branded (AVC) stone. She said that that is definitely something that needs to be included in the description of the diamond, because that will insure that if the stone ever needed to be replaced, it would be replaced with a "like stone" which would include the branding. If the stone is not branded, the insurance company can use their people to locate a "generic" stone of like size, cut, clarity, etc. But if it IS branded, they have to, by LAW, replace it with the same branded cut.
She also asked me what I paid for the stone and is going to adjust the value accordingly.

As far as the 5-stone, vs. 6-stone issue... It was just an accident that she took full responsibility for. She had "6-stone" written in her notes right in front of her, but wrote 5-stone by mistake. (And I understand that 6 is an unusual number of stones for this type of band.)

So... she is going to rewrite the appraisal and it should be mailed to me by tomorrow!

Thanks again, PriceScopers... you guys are the best!!

Edit...

I know this appraiser. I called her up and found she has already been in touch with the client. This appraiser is a very good one, but apparently she was not made aware of the Branded nature of this diamond. I suppose she ought to have asked about it, so this kind of thing would have een prevented. She also made a typo on the stone count. The original poster on this thread just had the suggested phone chat with the appraiser and I believe everything is being handled in a satisfactory manner with a new report already in the mail with the proper value and stone count. Having a Branded diamond named in your appraisal report is crucial to correctly assessing the replacement value. Not all Branded stones are recognized by every appraiser.

I think, in this case, we all have a satisfactory result, Please share Brand information with your appraiser of choice so that they can research the market which exists for that stone or mounting and allow you to cover the item with sufficient dollar amounts.

Thank you, OldMiner... looks like we were posting at the same time. Yes, I am very satisfied with the outcome and she was very professional and helpful. Thank you for taking the time to look into this for me! That was very kind!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

I know this appraiser. I called her up and found she has already been in touch with the client. This appraiser is a very good one, but apparently she was not made aware of the Branded nature of this diamond. I suppose she ought to have asked about it, so this kind of thing would have een prevented. She also made a typo on the stone count. The original poster on this thread just had the suggested phone chat with the appraiser and I believe everything is being handled in a satisfactory manner with a new report already in the mail with the proper value and stone count. Having a Branded diamond named in your appraisal report is crucial to correctly assessing the replacement value. Not all Branded stones are recognized by every appraiser.

I think, in this case, we all have a satisfactory result, Please share Brand information with your appraiser of choice so that they can research the market which exists for that stone or mounting and allow you to cover the item with sufficient dollar amounts.

Excellent!!!

 

[Enerchi]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

Hooray! so glad this is working itself out as it should!! That's great news, Dougsgirl, and so glad the appraiser was so helpful with you on the phone! See how a simple call can just make everything crystal clear again? - woo hoo!

Crisis averted

 

[Dougsgirl]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

Hooray! so glad this is working itself out as it should!! That's great news, Dougsgirl, and so glad the appraiser was so helpful with you on the phone! See how a simple call can just make everything crystal clear again? - woo hoo!

Crisis averted

I know, totally!! And it's funny how we can build things up in our minds. I was so nervous to call her because I didn't want to sound foolish. But I went into the conversation with a humble and respectful attitude saying "I have some questions about my recent appraisal and I think that there was some information that maybe was not given to you by my jeweler." And at the end of the conversation when I was thanking her for her help, I told her that I had been very concerned when I received the appraisal and I wasn't sure how to proceed, and she told me that I had done exactly the right thing.

She also told me that she remembered thinking that my diamond was a great cut and had very beautiful proportions.

Anyway... It was good experience for me. I had to put my big-girl pants on and step out of my comfort zone. But ultimately it was just a phone call, and it was a piece of cake.

I think when we approach people with respect and kindness, they will more often than not respond the same way. My mom always taught me... "You gather more bees with honey than with vinegar."

 

[JaneSmith]

Re: Ring appraised for insurance, results way too low, HELP!

I'm so glad this had a happy ending for you. Some good information gleaned for me too.