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Rookie searching for purple sapphire

C

Cheesewhiz

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
10
Hello

I've been searching for a purple sapphire, round or oval, to use in a trilogy engagement ring. I was looking at anything between 1.3 and 1.8 carats, roughly. The other stones would be small diamonds, likely in a white gold or platinum setting.

I'm located in Australia, and I've had a couple local jewellers source me some purple sapphires from wholesalers to look at, but they seem extremely expensive compared to similar sized and coloured stones I've find on US sites, such as JamesAllen.com or specialist cutters' websites. Does anyone know the reason for this?

Also, I've searched quite a few sites for a suitable stone but I'm getting a bit lost in it all - there is a lot of information. I've not fussed on whether it has been heat treated or not - I'm really just after a richly coloured purple sapphire that's eyeclean, and maintains its sparkle indoors and out. Can anyone recommend a specific seller or stone to me?

Thanks for your help!
Cheese
 
www.flawlessfacets.com has a 1.57 ct purple sapphire in their gemstone database. I can't seem to post a link to it but I was looking at it today. I'm sure the knowledgeable folks here can help you critique it if you are interested in it.
 
The gem ID is 587
 
Yes, that's the one I saw. I can't figure out how to link to it on this computer. (It's a MAC and I haven't figured it all out yet.)
 
Demontoid and Pregcurious, thanks for spotting that, its quite lovely. I'm not sold on cushion cut but it could be growing on me! The colour is just what I was after.

Just to help with my education on the subject - what justifies the large price discrepancy between GEM ID 587 (the one you pasted above), and GEM ID 430, which is also a lovely looking purple sapphire, but significantly larger and therefore much cheaper per carat. To my untrained eye the first has a more rich colour but I cant really comment on anything else.

Frekechild that is a lovely stone but a little too pink for her tastes I think.

Does anyone have any thoughts on Jamesallen.com sapphires? I only mention it because it would be easier to package the diamonds and sapphire together and get it shipped to me rather than deal with separate businesses. Their site is very light on for information about each sapphire, which worries me a little bit!
 
Does anyone have any thoughts on Jamesallen.com sapphires? I only mention it because it would be easier to package the diamonds and sapphire together and get it shipped to me rather than deal with separate businesses. Their site is very light on for information about each sapphire, which worries me a little bit!
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Trust that instinct. Not that I think they are charlatans, I am just skeptical that someone who does not trade in enough gemstones to provide thorough information really has top-notch wares to hawk.
 
Cheesewhiz|1361339456|3385108 said:
Just to help with my education on the subject - what justifies the large price discrepancy between GEM ID 587 (the one you pasted above), and GEM ID 430, which is also a lovely looking purple sapphire, but significantly larger and therefore much cheaper per carat. To my untrained eye the first has a more rich colour but I cant really comment on anything else.
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I think it's that the first one is more saturated.
 
If you don't have any luck finding one on a website, I would contact the vendors that have other sapphires and ask them if they have one that fits the description of what you are looking for. Often times, if a vendor has one color of sapphire, they may have more in their inventory or know where to get one from their suppliers.

I looked for a long time and asked several vendors and finally one got back to me when they found one that they thought would fit my requirements. It took a while, but I finally got just what I wanted. I wanted one larger than what you are looking for, so hopefully it won't take you as long to find that perfect stone.

Several vendors are back from Tuscon and might have been lucky enough to have scored some larger, poorly cut stones that are candidates for a recut. If you get the word out BEFORE they recut and put it on their website, you might get lucky and find exactly what you want.

I got mine from Jeff Davies. He is in Thailand and has access to hundreds of stones, both native and precision cut. He's great to work with and his prices are fair. As has been stated on here before, his photos are "glamour shots" but he usually provides a video of the stone that gives a better idea of what you are getting. I don't think he manipulates his photos, but he does take professional photos that show the stones "at their best".

The particular stone that I bought from him wasn't in his personal inventory, but he knew who had the stone and was able to offer it to me. He also got a lab report to verify that the stone was unheated before he sold it. Jeff moves a lot of stones, so his inventory is always changing.
 
Cheezwhiz, can you tell us what color, cut, and price you're looking for? That way we'll save time by not posting gems that don't fit your criteria. It will also help vendors when you contact them.

If you post pictures of the "purple" you like, that would help a lot.
 
I would second the suggestion of Jeff Davies. He does seem to have tremendous volume and is likely to come in contact with a purple perhaps sooner than others. If you want precision cut, I would hit up what I call "The Usual Suspects" - Gene from Precision Gem, Roger Dery, Spectral Gems, both of whom just got back from Tucson, and do follow up with Brad (the Gem Trader), who may just have more rough (doubtful but you never know).
 
minousbijoux|1361393145|3385570 said:
I would second the suggestion of Jeff Davies. He does seem to have tremendous volume and is likely to come in contact with a purple perhaps sooner than others. If you want precision cut, I would hit up what I call "The Usual Suspects" - Gene from Precision Gem, Roger Dery, Spectral Gems, both of whom just got back from Tucson, and do follow up with Brad (the Gem Trader), who may just have more rough (doubtful but you never know).
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Jeff is posting more and more precision cut stones (mine is precision cut) so don't count him out if you want precision cut. The thing I discovered about nice sapphires is that even if they are in the possession of a precision cutter, they may not recut the stone if the color is good and the cut is "decent" because they know they will loose ct weight if they do.

Both of the sapphires that I got from Gary Braun (who is an excellent cutter) are native cut stones that he got on one of his trips overseas and decided not to recut. I was lucky that the purple sapphire that I got from Jeff is precision cut. He is currently working with a precision cutter who does very nice work.

I thought I would add that if a stone is a decent cut with a small window, one of the precision cutters (like Dan Stair or Jerry Newman) that will do recutting for clients' stones can often remove the window with very little ct. loss and no loss to it's mm width. I had Dan recut the pavillion of a yellow sapphire I have and he removed the window and added a lot of sparkle.
 
I thought I would add that if a stone is a decent cut with a small window, one of the precision cutters (like Dan Stair or Jerry Newman) that will do recutting for clients' stones can often remove the window with very little ct. loss and no loss to it's mm width. I had Dan recut the pavillion of a yellow sapphire I have and he removed the window and added a lot of sparkle.
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Colorluvr, I don't disagree with this advice, but it might be better suited for someone who has a moderate amount of experience buying gemstones. If the OP is new to gemstone buying, I would not recommend this avenue. I would want someone to understand concepts like a adequate depth, centered culets, color zoning, modifying colors and inclusions and now what to look for before being willing to take on the risk of recutting a stone--even if it is just the pavilion. (I'm new to gemstone buying so I would personally be extremely cautious about this avenue!)
 
corundum_conundrum|1361394811|3385596 said:
I thought I would add that if a stone is a decent cut with a small window, one of the precision cutters (like Dan Stair or Jerry Newman) that will do recutting for clients' stones can often remove the window with very little ct. loss and no loss to it's mm width. I had Dan recut the pavillion of a yellow sapphire I have and he removed the window and added a lot of sparkle.
Click to expand...

Colorluvr, I don't disagree with this advice, but it might be better suited for someone who has a moderate amount of experience buying gemstones. If the OP is new to gemstone buying, I would not recommend this avenue. I would want someone to understand concepts like a adequate depth, centered culets, color zoning, modifying colors and inclusions and now what to look for before being willing to take on the risk of recutting a stone--even if it is just the pavilion. (I'm new to gemstone buying so I would personally be extremely cautious about this avenue!)
Click to expand...

I totally agree - OP, please disregard my comments about considering getting a stone that could be improved with a pavillion recut. c_c is correct that there are many things that need to be considered. Your best best would be to talk to a respected lapidary or gemstone vendor and tell them exactly what you want.
 
Many things affect pricing but it is predominantly the colour - purity of hue, saturation and tone. There's also treatment, cutting, size and overhead.

Please let us know the exact purple you are looking for. A picture of what is ideal to you is best.
 
Chrono, the one that pregcurious posted from Flawlessfacets.com right at the top of the thread has a beautiful colour. That is what I originally had in mind, that fairly deep rich purple colour. I havent worked out how to add an image yet sorry! Its about the right size and price too but I'm just not sure on the cushion cut. I dont mind if it has a little blue in it, but I know she isn't a huge fan of pinks if that helps!

I've also taken a bit of a liking to the concave cut. I've chatted briefly with a concave cut specialist and although he has some really nice looking round purple stones, they are definitely more expensive for the weight/size than some others. He has lighter purpley (with a bit of blue) ones that look really interesting but dont have that high level of saturation, I think they would look great in a ring - again, quite expensive due to the cut premium I assume. I've put out some feelers with other gem cutters but not many have purples lying around.

The other question I had was about this place: www.planetarygems.com... They have some cheap purple sapphires (300-600 dollar range) in some beautiful colours. Is that cheap price due to the cutting on them? From what I can see most of the purple are pretty sloppily cut, and to me that's not really ideal for an engagement ring.

I've noticed that AfricaGems has by far the best selection of purple gems - what are your thoughts on something like this:
http://www.africagems.com/round-purple-sapphire-g2k-2305.html
 
It sounds like you are looking for rounds, and have no specific budget. Please be as specific as possible as people will spend their time posting things without knowing your preference.
 
The Flawlessfacets sapphire looks to have promise. Is your concern with the cushion shape or the quality of the cut? Yes, there is a premium for concave faceting and the premium varies from lapidary to lapidary.

Personally, I would not buy from planetarygems but have no solid reasoning to offer. It is just a gut feel based on the pictures, description and pricing. You can do a PS search yourself to read of others' experience. I can understand wanting a well cut stone for an engagement ring.

Africagems sells varying qualities of gemstones. The one you selected is very well cut but based on your description, the colour may not be right for you. I see it has having a strong primary blue with a violet secondary. The AGL brief concurs with this as well in spite of the vendor's description of a violet purple sapphire.
 
Some stones at Planetary gems have reports from SGL. Is this a reputable lab?
 
I love the colors you seek, Cheese! You cant go wrong with Jim Rentfrow - great cutting and excellent eye for color. As to the link for the purple you just posted - my concern is that that stone might read as too dark in hand. I believe the stone in the photo has more light on it than in normal circumstances so that alone would make it darker. Consider too, that for whatever reason, many of the vendors stones are darker anyway in real life. In fact, I can't think of any time a member here has gotten a stone and reported that it was lighter in real life than the photo, unless it was a tanzanite and they were ramping up the saturation. Planetary gems makes me leery too. In fact, iirc, someone recently bought stones from them and promptly sent them back as being nowhere close to the photos. A search should indicate that thread.
 
pregcurious|1361457920|3386378 said:
Some stones at Planetary gems have reports from SGL. Is this a reputable lab?
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I know its in Sri Lanka and thats about it, but I remember a while ago Pandora (who unfortunately doesn't post any more, Wahh :cry: ) saying that Sri Lanka has pretty high standards and all the labs she knew of were on the up and up. That's a great question for that other website that I saw one of your postings on recently :wink2: :))
 
I think we need more guidance on color, and your budget.

Also, a word of warning on concave cut. It seems like a love it or hate it look - I personally hate it. I would have been devastated if my ering had been concave cut. If you decide to seriously look into going that route, I'd check with your lady love and make sure she loves it first.
 
Hi Guys, apologies I didnt realise I was being a bit hazy on the price - about 1 - 1.5k for the sapphire is my price guide. Round is ideal, but oval is also acceptable.

In terms of colour, the first one Pregcurious from Flawless Facets posted is basically perfect as is, but I'm slightly afraid it will be too dark once its set and sitting on my partners finger in the office. In light of that (no pun intended), something slightly lighter would also be suitable.

Chrono: My concern with that Flawless Facets gem is that its cushion cut. Otherwise its just about perfect, im liking the colour more and more each time I look at it. What is your take on the quality of the cut? Thanks for the advice re: planetary gems, they do look a bit sketchy to me.

As an aside - if i see the exact same stone on two different sites at fairly different prices should I be wary?
 
What do you mean by the exact same stone on 2 different websites? Do you mean the vendor websites posted in the stickied thread? There aren't many colored stone websites that do that legitimately. I can think of 4 vendors who have related websites, and may show the same item. Even in those cases, I am not aware of prices that vary, unless 1 site has a sale, and the other does not.

Can anyone else chime in?
 
minousbijoux|1361479496|3386741 said:
pregcurious|1361457920|3386378 said:
Some stones at Planetary gems have reports from SGL. Is this a reputable lab?
Click to expand...

I know its in Sri Lanka and thats about it, but I remember a while ago Pandora (who unfortunately doesn't post any more, Wahh :cry: ) saying that Sri Lanka has pretty high standards and all the labs she knew of were on the up and up. That's a great question for that other website that I saw one of your postings on recently :wink2: :))
Click to expand...

Minous, isn't it great that the vendor exchanged my opal? I will ask about SGL over there. I miss pandora and her lovely tsav. I wish I could see what jewelry she was making as she had great taste.

Thread jack over.
 
I looked that FF's website hoping for more views on the stone but there were none. Based on the single photograph (I would prefer more pictures though), it looks a tad too dark and the culet is noticeable off centered.

About the same stone on 2 different websites: there are two scenarios.
1. Picture theft. It is becoming more common that pictures are being stolen and used to sell something that is not owned. Who knows what the buyer will receive.
2. Multiple websites. The owner runs several stores for greater exposure. Perhaps in one store it is higher due to eBay fees but on his or her personal website, it will be lower because there are no added fees.
 
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