Royal Jewels

[prince.of.preslav]

YOU don't make them, Bobby! And you don't let us make them!

--- Laurie

Ooo no! I have made mistakes and sometimes have been corrected by other posters here, while in other cases I've corrected myself

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

From the Court Circular for 10 July 2012:

APPENDIX TO COURT CIRCULAR: The Queen has been pleased to appoint Mr. Martin Swift to be Crown Jeweller upon the retirement of Mr. Harry Collins, with effect from 21st July, 2012.

Now does anybody know something abut Martin Swift? Harry Collins works with antique jewels. What about Mr.Swift?

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

I just found this article that mentions London jeweller Martin Swift - Link. Perhaps it's the same one?
By the way, I wonder how this decision was taken? Who makes the recommendations, is The Queen the one to make this final choice or is done on her behalf? Any guesses?

Bobby

 

[sunshine996]

Well, before, HM has comissioned things from different jewelers and if she is pleased with their work, she hires them. That is supposedly how Mr. Collins got the job.

 

[sunshine996]

An out of the blue question:

Does anyone know what haappened to the upright pearls that were on the Cambridge Lover's Knot Tiara?

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Well, before, HM has comissioned things from different jewelers and if she is pleased with their work, she hires them. That is supposedly how Mr. Collins got the job.

Well, lets not mix holding a "royal warrant of appointment" with being the official Crown Jeweller, i.e. taking care of the Regalia and the Sovereign's private jewels. For example, The Queen has commissioned from Cartier, yet they haven't been named Crown Jeweller, yet they held a RWoA (at least in the beginning of the XX century). Can you imagine HM not being pleased with their work? After all the Williamson pink was set by them, the Halo tiara is their creation, as are a lot of The Queen's jewels. HM also has jewels by Harry Winston and seems to rather enjoy them. Yet no RWoA for this company, let alone naming them Crown Jeweller...
I do think that this position requires knowledge and experience in/with old jewels. Thus (for me) it is the person and not the company that matters. That's why I asked how recommendations are made. Is there, perhaps, a list of jewellers that can take good care of some very important jewels?
BTW, I was a bit surprised by this choice. I expected Wartski to be named Crown Jeweller this time.

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

An out of the blue question:

Does anyone know what haappened to the upright pearls that were on the Cambridge Lover's Knot Tiara?

That's an interesting question... I don't think they are mentioned in The Queen's Diamonds, but given that they were wedding presents to Queen Mary, most likely they are laying in a box somewhere collecting dust and loosing their luster...

 

[JewelFreak]

It's possible they were sold or traded for other gems. I sort of hope so, better for them to be used than sit around in a vault & lose their beauty.

Bobby, it's surprising there is really nothing about Martin Swift on the internet, at least nothing turned up in a quick search. Only the info you posted. He must be uninterested in publicity, which I'm sure the Queen would admire. Good question about how the Crown Jeweler is chosen -- I imagine the Queen would ask the outgoing jeweler first for recommendations. Maybe he compiles a list & she interviews (or someone on her staff does) & with background info, then they make a choice. I'll raise my hand to help out!

--- Laurie

 

[sunshine996]

Bobby,

Thank you for clearing things up. I always oversimplify things, sorry! Yes, I would assume that they apply for the position and I think that the best canditates, either a person recommended by the previous CJ or a person that was selected from a list that HM's aides came up with, would send some of their pieces to be looked at. Then, HM narrows down the choices even further, choosing the work/designs that she likes best, and/or the person who has the best credintials. Just some speculation! I don't think that anyone really knows, unless it is out on the internet somehwere.


It's sad that the pearls are probably locked away in the vault. I haven't heard anything about them so I thought that I'd ask. The pearls could be used to make a pair of matching earrings, and/or a small necklace.

 

[prince.of.preslav]

An out of the blue question:

Does anyone know what haappened to the upright pearls that were on the Cambridge Lover's Knot Tiara?

You know, this is an interesting question... I know that I already replied to it, but it made me think further... We know that the pearls from the Girls of Great Britain & Ireland tiara and those from the Ladies of England tiara were used for the Lover's Knot. The two tiaras had 13 and 11 pearls respectively, while the Lover's Knot had two rows (upright and hanging) of 19, or a total of 38. We also know that 6 pearls from the Duchess of Gloucester's pearl stomacher were used in the tiara, though it has not mentioned if they were among the upright pearls that were removed (these 6 pearls are back with the stomacher). This makes 8 pearls more than QM originally had and you can imagine that I'm dying to understand where they came from - family pearls, supplied by Gerrard's?
To add to your question - There is a photograph of Queen Mary using 13 upright pear-shaped pearl on a diamond bandeau. I'm not sure, but I think it's the bandeau that was worn by Princess Margaret, rather than the one that was left to the Duchess of Kent. If I'm correct and if it still exists, perhaps the bandeau still can take the pearls? I hope so!
And you can actually see that from the 19 pearls, 6 were returned to the stomacher, while 13 were used on a bandeau. The numbers match


Bobby

 

[sunshine996]

An out of the blue question:

Does anyone know what haappened to the upright pearls that were on the Cambridge Lover's Knot Tiara?

You know, this is an interesting question... I know that I already replied to it, but it made me think further... We know that the pearls from the Girls of Great Britain & Ireland tiara and those from the Ladies of England tiara were used for the Lover's Knot. The two tiaras had 13 and 11 pearls respectively, while the Lover's Knot had two rows (upright and hanging) of 19, or a total of 38. We also know that 6 pearls from the Duchess of Gloucester's pearl stomacher were used in the tiara, though it has not mentioned if they were among the upright pearls that were removed (these 6 pearls are back with the stomacher). This makes 8 pearls more than QM originally had and you can imagine that I'm dying to understand where they came from - family pearls, supplied by Gerrard's?
To add to your question - There is a photograph of Queen Mary using 13 upright pear-shaped pearl on a diamond bandeau. I'm not sure, but I think it's the bandeau that was worn by Princess Margaret, rather than the one that was left to the Duchess of Kent. If I'm correct and if it still exists, perhaps the bandeau still can take the pearls? I hope so!
And you can actually see that from the 19 pearls, 6 were returned to the stomacher, while 13 were used on a bandeau. The numbers match


Bobby

Wow! So there is probably another pearl and diamond tiara in HM's vault. But this leaves me with more questions: Where did the diamond bandeau that QM/PM wore come from/Which diamond bandeau did she wear? And does the Queen still have ownership of the Bandeau, or was it sold with PM's other jewelry (that is if QM gave it to PM as a gift in the first place/her children decided to keep it)?
I will search for that picture of Princess Margaret/Queen Mary.

 

[sunshine996]

Here are some pictures of Queen Mary/Princess margaret wearing a diamond bandeau and Queen Mary is wearing it with upright pearls. Are these the pictures you are talking about, Bobby ?

I'm not sure if this link will work, but if it doesn't then you can copy/paste it. You have to scroll down the page to see the pictures I'm talking about. (Not the picture with Princess Alexandra and Queen Mary wearing yet another diamond bandeau, although QM is wearing it with what looks like upright emeralds.)

http://www.royal-magazin.de/england/queen-mary-tiara.htm

 

[BubblyBear]

Here's a picture of Katherine, Duchess of Kent wearing a diamond bandeau.

 

[BubblyBear]

The Kent bandeau looks very different than the one Princess Margaret wore:

 

[sunshine996]

Here's a picture of Katherine, Duchess of Kent wearing a diamond bandeau.

I prefer this bandau to the one that Margaret wore. It is more tiara like than "she looks like she is wearing a diamond hairband", not that wearing a diamond hairband would be bad, or anything!

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Wow! So there is probably another pearl and diamond tiara in HM's vault. But this leaves me with more questions: Where did the diamond bandeau that QM/PM wore come from/Which diamond bandeau did she wear? And does the Queen still have ownership of the Bandeau, or was it sold with PM's other jewelry (that is if QM gave it to PM as a gift in the first place/her children decided to keep it)?
I will search for that picture of Princess Margaret/Queen Mary.

Maybe or maybe not...
We know that Queen Mary kept adding to her collection. She either re-used old stones to make new jewels or (in rare cases) bought ready jewels. I would think that this bandeau is an example of the latter, just like the other one is.
This jewel probably still belongs to the Queen. It was most certainly not part of the auctioned jewels (there was only one tiara in the sale). Princess Margaret only wore it once because her grandmother had loaned it to her.

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Here are some pictures of Queen Mary/Princess margaret wearing a diamond bandeau and Queen Mary is wearing it with upright pearls. Are these the pictures you are talking about, Bobby ?

I'm not sure if this link will work, but if it doesn't then you can copy/paste it. You have to scroll down the page to see the pictures I'm talking about. (Not the picture with Princess Alexandra and Queen Mary wearing yet another diamond bandeau, although QM is wearing it with what looks like upright emeralds.)

http://www.royal-magazin.de/england/queen-mary-tiara.htm

Yes, this are the photos that I mean, though mine are larger.
Any guesses how relevant the info that the pearls were removed by 1946 is? Perhaps it still could be worn with them, but no one had worn them since then? Is this mentioned in The Queen's Diamonds?

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Here's a picture of Katherine, Duchess of Kent wearing a diamond bandeau.

This bandeau is among the few jewels that Queen Mary bought, rather than ordered. HM purchased it in 1925 from Gerrard's and left it to Princess Marina in her will. The top part was re-constructed into a fringe tiara for the current Duchess of Kent and only the base remains from the original bandeau.
This is the second bandeau that I mentioned.
ETA - Queen Mary had it adapted to take 11 of the 15 Cambridge emeralds that are used with the Vladimir tiara, of which 10 were previously set in the Delhi Durbar tiara.

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

[...]
This makes 8 pearls more than QM originally had and you can imagine that I'm dying to understand where they came from - family pearls, supplied by Gerrard's?
To add to your question - There is a photograph of Queen Mary using 13 upright pear-shaped pearl on a diamond bandeau. I'm not sure, but I think it's the bandeau that was worn by Princess Margaret, rather than the one that was left to the Duchess of Kent. If I'm correct and if it still exists, perhaps the bandeau still can take the pearls? I hope so!
And you can actually see that from the 19 pearls, 6 were returned to the stomacher, while 13 were used on a bandeau. The numbers match


Bobby

Today I read that the pearl drops from the Woman of Hampshire and from the Richmond brooches were used in the Lover's Knot tiara as spikes. They were returned to their original 'homes' in 1932 when the upright pearls were removed from the tiara. I'm not sure, however, if they were also used in the bandeau.
That leaves 6 pearl drops. Any guesses?

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Yes, this are the photos that I mean, though mine are larger.
Any guesses how relevant the info that the pearls were removed by 1946 is? Perhaps it still could be worn with them, but no one had worn them since then? Is this mentioned in The Queen's Diamonds?

First - I meant reliable, not relevant.
Secondly - I see that the source is Leslie Field. I'm not sure if I should trust her or take her words with a grain of salt.

Bobby

 

[sunshine996]

Bobby,

I would guess that the 6 unaccounted for pearls were from the jeweller.

I really hope that HM still has the diamond bandeau with optional pearl spikes. It would be a good "starter" tiara for the younger generations. In my opinion, she needs another pearl tiara, although Grand Duchess Vladmir's pearl/emerald and diamond tiara, and the Cambridge Lover's Knot are some of my favorite tiaras.

 

[BubblyBear]

Sunshine - as Bobby has already stated the bandeau that takes the pearl and emerald spikes was left to Princess Marina upon the death Q Mary. I posted a photo of Katharine, Duchess of Kent, and Bobby spoke of the current Duchess wearing a reconstructed version. It is most certainly not in QEII's possession.

I hate to be rude, but you really need to work on your reading comprehension, my dear.

 

[BubblyBear]

Have a photo. QMary in emerald spikes.

 

[BubblyBear]

Oh no!! Now I'm really confused! The pearls and the emeralds don't belong to the same bandeau???

Here's a photo which I believe shows the pearls on the "lozenge" tiara (aka the one we see Princess Margaret in above).




Sunshine, I owe you an apology!

 

[laurensmama]

Hello everyone,

Just returned from vacation and trying to get caught up on all the posts. The bandeau discussion is interesting. I love that QM altered pieces and had items made interchangeable, but honestly I think I need a flowchart (for possession and alterations), don't know how some of our more well-informed posters keep it all straight. Who is in possession of the one worn by Princess Margaret (one occasion, loaned by her grandmother), has it been altered? I know in the past we have tried to count the number of tiaras in QM/QEII possession, but I have never seen this photo of Princess Margaret, is this one we left out? If it is in storage, I would hope that these jewels are routinely taken care of and not left to collect dust and possibly ruin (ie., the pearl discussion) even if styles have changed, there is so much historical significance to them.

 

[JewelFreak]

Welcome back, LM. Hope your vacation was super!

If it is in storage, I would hope that these jewels are routinely taken care of and not left to collect dust and possibly ruin (ie., the pearl discussion

Isn't that one of the jobs of the Crown Jeweler, to keep things in repair & cleaned? In my imagination I see him coming round to the Palace on a regular schedule to fix & tidy up the Queen's jewels. (What a job! And they pay him to do it. I'd pay them for the chance, just once!) How do they keep seldom-worn pearls lustrous? Do any of your books mention anything on that? I might see if anyone knows on the Pearl forum.

As Bobby says, LM, the bandeau must be with the Queen, unless its stones have been used for other pieces (which?). It wasn't auctioned off by Margaret's children. Since she wore it only once, it must have been returned to QM & would belong to Queen Elizabeth now.

Bubbly Bear, one of the best things about this thread is that it's so pleasant. If you don't wish to be rude, as you stated, I'm going to ask gently that you not be. Sometimes virtual snapping at people can discourage them from contributing & that would be a loss to all of us. I'm sure Sunshine accepts your nice apology.

--- Laurie

 

[laurensmama]

Found some interesting photos/information on the royal jewels of the world diamond message board. Would anyone with more knowledge than I care to comment. Interesting about writing for information, has anyone ever done that? Here is the link:

http://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/thread/1339365104.html

 

[sunshine996]

Oh no!! Now I'm really confused! The pearls and the emeralds don't belong to the same bandeau???

Here's a photo which I believe shows the pearls on the "lozenge" tiara (aka the one we see Princess Margaret in above).




Sunshine, I owe you an apology!

It's alright BB, it is really hard to keep all of these unnamed tiaras straight, especially since they are so similar.

So there is no further confusion, I would like to name these tiaras and if anyone wishes to improve on the names, please feel free to do so:

The diamond bandeau that Queen Mary wore with the pearl spikes, which she lent to Margaret, will be called the "Art Deco Lozenge Tiara". The diamond bandeau that Queen Mary wore with emerald spikes, which the former Duchess of Kent wore and has had half of its diamonds used for a fringe tiara, will be called the "Kent Diamond Bandeau".

 

[JewelFreak]

Found some interesting photos/information on the royal jewels of the world diamond message board. Would anyone with more knowledge than I care to comment. Interesting about writing for information, has anyone ever done that? Here is the link:

http://members2.boardhost.com/royal-jewels/thread/1339365104.html

Great idea! It's a surprise & happy info that they always answer & try to help. Hey, Bobby????

--- Laurie

 

[laurensmama]

Hello everyone,

There is also an interesting article on some of the Queen's diamonds in this month's Majesty magazine. As a sidebar, what is the necklace she is wearing on the cover of the magazine? I am sure we have discussed it, but it's name escapes me.