Ruby Clarity Education

[VividRed]

Exactly. Elizabeth Taylor’s ruby that you posted above is amazing, but that stone probably represent 20 years of my salary haha.

Red spinels have definitely gone crazy recently, but by mere mortals, I meant one can get a decent sized, glow-y red spinel for $10-20k if the proper avenues are pursued.Try getting a decent 2 carat unheated ruby for anywhere close to $20k.

I just got a quote for a 2ct. unheated loupe clean Mogok vivid red ruby. USD 15k per carat, supposedly wholesale price.

Spinels of similar quality and size - all I’ve seen so far ranges from 5-10k per carat.

 

[T L]

I just got a quote for a 2ct. unheated loupe clean Mogok vivid red ruby. USD 15k per carat, supposedly wholesale price.

Spinels of similar quality and size - all I’ve seen so far ranges from 5-10k per carat.

Wow, that’s a decent price if it truly is vivid. Dealers love to throw around that descriptor, as some labs do as well.

 

[T L]

Beautiful color and sparkles

https://www.instagram.com/p/BoaMsgFBOS-/?igshid=922oxjwos4op

 

[VividRed]

Wow, that’s a decent price if it truly is vivid. Dealers love to throw around that descriptor, as some labs do as well.

It’s a GRS pigeon blood...so probably not really top color

 

[Rad_Fan]

@Bron357 and @VividRed, you all need to show off your beauties here more often. We need to see the top 1%

 

[Rad_Fan]

Beautiful color and sparkles

https://www.instagram.com/p/BoaMsgFBOS-/?igshid=922oxjwos4op

It's more silky than @VividRed's, no? Taken under more the ideal light setting too.

 

[Rad_Fan]

I just got a quote for a 2ct. unheated loupe clean Mogok vivid red ruby. USD 15k per carat, supposedly wholesale price.

#stilllooking...!

 

[VividRed]

It's more silky than @VividRed's, no? Taken under more the ideal light setting too.

Yes, and about 80 times more expensive

 

[T L]

It's more silky than @VividRed's, no? Taken under more the ideal light setting too.

I don’t know if that’s silk or intensity of color that plays havoc with the camera. Some gems are so vivid in color, they look silky on video or stills, but that gem sparkles an awful lot to be too silky. It probably has silk, but not as much as you think.

 

[T L]

It’s a GRS pigeon blood...so probably not really top color

No, that’s evidently not a good indicator.

AGL is.

 

[VividRed]

No, that’s evidently not a good indicator.

AGL is.

And yet there are few vendors who provide an AGL grading report even for $$$$ stones, I am starting to realize how annoying that is, although it makes the stone more expensive, it would save time and shipping money, which most customers in that space would probably willing to pay for such a report.

Perhaps AGL should consider opening a branch in Bangkok, the market over there is huge...

 

[T L]

And yet there are few vendors who provide an AGL grading report even for $$$$ stones, I am starting to realize how annoying that is, although it makes the stone more expensive, it would save time and shipping money, which most customers in that space would probably willing to pay for such a report.

Perhaps AGL should consider opening a branch in Bangkok, the market over there is huge...

To be honest,most vendors would still use these other labs because they’re more generous and vague with a stone’s quality factors.

 

[voce]

This is the image I have of that record-setting Sunrise ruby. Based on this image, I would say silky and not sleepy. It surprised me that it did look sleepier than I expected in the video shared by @T L. Not too sleepy for me, since I loved how velvety that ruby looked. The color and size trumps the clarity.

I'm not sure that the Liz Taylor ruby is significantly better or different color than the Sunrise ruby. It looks pinkish in some photos and too dark in others. It's probably all due to differences and lighting and cameras rather than difference in the ruby color itself that gives these impressions.

@TreeScientist at 4.2 million USD, which is what Elizabeth Taylor's ruby auctioned for, your salary would have to be $210k a year to have that much in 20 years! That would put you in the 1%, I think. Unless you're compounding stock market returns.

 

[voce]

To be honest,most vendors would still use these other labs because they’re more generous and vague with a stone’s quality factors.

TRUTH.

I imagine a lot of vendors would be quaking in their boots that the gemstones they tout as "top quality" would come back as only "good" or "average" by AGL standards, if they did a full AGL Grading Report.

This is why when AGL reports are offered, 99% of the time it's Origin and ID or Origin only, not Grading.

 

[T L]

This is the image I have of that record-setting Sunrise ruby. Based on this image, I would say silky and not sleepy. It surprised me that it did look sleepier than I expected in the video shared by @T L. Not too sleepy for me, since I loved how velvety that ruby looked. The color and size trumps the clarity.

I'm not sure that the Liz Taylor ruby is significantly better or different color than the Sunrise ruby. It looks pinkish in some photos and too dark in others. It's probably all due to differences and lighting and cameras rather than difference in the ruby color itself that gives these impressions.

@TreeScientist at 4.2 million USD, which is what Elizabeth Taylor's ruby auctioned for, your salary would have to be $210k a year to have that much in 20 years! That would put you in the 1%, I think. Unless you're compounding stock market returns.

My feeling is that it has visible silk, and I suspect they called it the “sunrise” ruby because there’s an orange component.

I like Liz’s ruby better because there is pink/blue undertones in it. It’s not orangey. I see a bit of orange in the sunrise stone. I could be totally wrong though, and it may be perfect in every possible way. You would hope so!!!

I suspect, although it’s smaller, the “Richard Burton Ruby” (the name given to it), is better quality. Both are world class stones, so it’s hard.

 

[T L]

@TreeScientist at 4.2 million USD, which is what Elizabeth Taylor's ruby auctioned for, your salary would have to be $210k a year to have that much in 20 years! That would put you in the 1%, I think. Unless you're compounding stock market returns.

Wow, it would be a bargain if auctioned today!! Ruby prices have gone up so much since then.

 

[DauphineMucha]

@TreeScientist at 4.2 million USD, which is what Elizabeth Taylor's ruby auctioned for, your salary would have to be $210k a year to have that much in 20 years! That would put you in the 1%, I think. Unless you're compounding stock market returns.

Or 400K/yr at 8M!

The sunrise looks to have orange tone when viewing on my iPhone too.

Nice to hear from various opinions!

 

[T L]

You would think the Sunrise Ruby would have an AGL report, as did Liz Taylor’s gems did (her gems had multiple reports from various labs, including AGL). The only color descriptor we have for the Subrise Ruby is “pigeon blood red” which is used for orange reds too.

 

[T L]

Here are all the lab descriptions of the Sunrise Ruby. Although pigeon blood has been mentioned about a zillion times, it’s also called, “fiery red,” “vivid red,” and there’s some mention of pink or purple in it. I don’t need all the poetic descriptions. In any case, unless one can see it with their own eyes, it’s hard to give an opinion, and even then those are subjective. We all like what we like.

https://archive.org/stream/TheSunriseRuby/The Sunrise Ruby_djvu.txt

 

[VividRed]

Not the biggest but to me, the best ever sold at an auction: the Graff ruby (also my avatar picture).




When looking at such treasures you see the price per carat, which in the top end seems to gravitate around USD 1m. But I use a different measure, the price per squared carat, or “size-adjusted price per carat”. It basically does exactly what it indicates: brings the price per carat to a comparable basis irrespective of carat size and can be used to compare prices on a relative basis.

For example, the Sunrise ruby (25 ct.) was sold for USD 30m or so, which is 1.2m/ct. but if you take my measure it is only USD 48k/square carat.

The Graff ruby, altough much smaller (8-ish carat), sold for approx. USD 8m, i.e. 1m/ct. so cheaper than the Sunrise but it’s price per square carat is USD 125k.

Long story short, similar price per carat for a stone 3 times smaller, thats has to mean something something...

https://www.graff.com/collections/high-jewellery/the-graff-ruby/

 

[T L]

Interesting notation on the term “pigeon blood.” It refers to the bird’s eye, not the actual blood.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Blp_mS3gBH2/?igshid=xy4w3wagc8wh

Wow! What a helpful metaphor ....NOT!!

 

[T L]

Not the biggest but to me, the best ever sold at an auction: the Graff ruby (also my avatar picture).




When looking at such treasures you see the price per carat, which in the top end seems to gravitate around USD 1m. But I use a different measure, the price per squared carat, or “size-adjusted price per carat”. It basically does exactly what it indicates: brings the price per carat to a comparable basis irrespective of carat size and can be used to compare prices on a relative basis.

For example, the Sunrise ruby (25 ct.) was sold for USD 30m or so, which is 1.2m/ct. but if you take my measure it is only USD 48k/square carat.

The Graff ruby, altough much smaller (8-ish carat), sold for approx. USD 8m, i.e. 1m/ct. so cheaper than the Sunrise but it’s price per square carat is USD 125k.

Long story short, similar price per carat for a stone 3 times smaller, thats has to mean something something...

https://www.graff.com/collections/high-jewellery/the-graff-ruby/

Yes, but even then, photos of it are terrible. I can’t find a close up video of it. How are we to judge? Here are two photos of it in different settings. I suspect the newer photo is photoshopped, and the other is just bad quality.

 

[voce]

Here are all the lab descriptions of the Sunrise Ruby. Although pigeon blood has been mentioned about a zillion times, it’s also called, “fiery red,” “vivid red,” and there’s some mention of pink or purple in it. I don’t need all the poetic descriptions. In any case, unless one can see it with their own eyes, it’s hard to give an opinion, and even then those are subjective. We all like what we like.

https://archive.org/stream/TheSunriseRuby/The Sunrise Ruby_djvu.txt

Interesting about the lab reports. There's Swiss Gemological Institute, SSEF, and Gubelin. No AGL; is this European arrogance or the fact that the AGL color scan came back unfavorable?

 

[T L]

Interesting about the lab reports. There's Swiss Gemological Institute, SSEF, and Gubelin. No AGL; is this European arrogance or the fact that the AGL color scan came back unfavorable?

I know.

I guess I’m too logical, I like scientific and specific breakdown of color. However, I guess this “firey, pigeon blood, vivid , sunset evoking” perfectly describes the color??!

 

[voce]

I know.

I guess I’m too logical, I like scientific and specific breakdown of color. However, I guess this “firey, pigeon blood, vivid , sunset evoking” perfectly describes the color??!

Vivid is right, but the other descriptors are all fairly subjective.

For padparadscha, there are both orange and pink components. The ones that are more orange are called "sunrise" in the trade, and the ones that are more pink are called "sunset" in the trade. That the trade characterizes another corundum species this way, leads me to guess that the Sunrise ruby does indeed have an orange component. It's still fiery and the orange is not what I would've been able to detect when I was more of a newbie here, but I think you are right.

My own preference is for a pure red without too much of pink or orange (i.e. not noticeable in most lighting environments). Orange is an actual wavelength of light, but pink is an effect on human eyes and not really a scientific color. Part of me wonders whether AGL decided to abandon the color scan just because pink is not considered a scientific color.

 

[T L]

If we’re talking primary colors only, pink is really light red, but some reds are more blue, or more yellow (thus the orange). I prefer more bluish reds, but not where they’re too purple. Fine Burma rubies are typically more bluish reds, and Thai are have more yellow, causing an orangey red hue . Some people prefer the latter.

Even the GIA breakdown of saturation levels is not enough. There are many levels of even vivid color that they don’t take into account, except maybe for fancy colored diamonds.

 

[VividRed]

Yes, but even then, photos of it are terrible. I can’t find a close up video of it. How are we to judge? Here are two photos of it in different settings. I suspect the newer photo is photoshopped, and the other is just bad quality.

There is only one way to find out - we buy it collectively with our - 20, 40, or 400 annual salaries - and I shall keep it in custody and will send you pictures

Problem solved!

 

[T L]

There is only one way to find out - we buy it collectively with our - 20, 40, or 400 annual salaries - and I shall keep it in custody and will send you pictures

Problem solved!

I am sure it’s absolutely drop dead gorgeous!! There, money saved!

 

[VividRed]

Interesting about the lab reports. There's Swiss Gemological Institute, SSEF, and Gubelin. No AGL; is this European arrogance or the fact that the AGL color scan came back unfavorable?

Ultimately someone paid top-top dollar for it, and it was an emotional purchase that went beyond the color scan. Nothing else (emotion, passion, desire) can justify paying such a price for a stone.

That - I think - is also true for cheaper but still expensive purchases.

 

[T L]

Small, but beautiful red color IMO, but not a ruby.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bx_8nMjFCxH/?igshid=d0s5i8tdimvf