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ruby engagement ring help

M

mauds111

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
5
Hello,
I am new to PS and happy to have found this forum.
I have read some posts under kate thunderbird related to this topic, just posted.
I am looking for a ruby engagement ring, looking to spend no more than $3500 total ring and recently started the process. I am generally looking to buy a preset ring instead of ruby and setting separate.
I wanted to avoid major "mall type" retailers, Hannoush,Kay, etc.
I went to a local small family owned jeweler and had a good experience with customer service, but felt their knowledge was lacking. I asked about the ruby quality on a ring I loved and they said it is "very good quality", but couldn't tell me specifics. Should they be able to tell me where the ruby is from, the rating of A, AA, etc, heat treated/fracture filling etc.?
The ring I loved was a a halo ring, 1.16 carat oval ruby with about .3 carat total diamond with the halo and around the finger. I was told it retailed for $5795 and I could purchase for $3375. I heard the elderly jeweler who gave that price asking the salesperson who we were working with if she knew us. He came up with the $3375 figure seemingly haphazardly, but I'm sure he had his methods.
Then I've been looking on Angara website and have read many threads here regarding Angara. I looked up a similar halo white gold ruby ring that was higher or equal carats, that were rated AAA for the ruby and was so much cheaper. I think if it is too good to be true, then it usually is. One specific Angara ring was called "circle of love", 6mm about 1 carat ruby rated AAA with 0.25 carat diamonds for $1799.99 sale price, retail $2519.99. Thoughts on this?
I want to support the local family business. Can I negotiate the ring I described above? On what grounds/comparison do I negotiate? Should I be comparing Angara to them?

Thank you so much!
Margaret
 
I don't understand how a store can sell something without knowing the specifics, especially when it comes to corundum. Without knowing the treatment and its level, the stone could be worth anywhere from $50 to $5000, so you MUST know this before you buy. The rating of A, AA, and AAA is not a a worldwide or even nationally recognized quality standard. Each store sets their own standard and rating, which is only known to them.

I wish I can advise you more on both rings but there is very little solid information on both.
1. Treatment type
2. Treatment level
3. Colour quality
4. Clarity
5. Cut
 
I went to a local small family owned jeweler and had a good experience with customer service, but felt their knowledge was lacking. I asked about the ruby quality on a ring I loved and they said it is "very good quality", but couldn't tell me specifics. Should they be able to tell me where the ruby is from, the rating of A, AA, etc, heat treated/fracture filling etc.?
The ring I loved was a a halo ring, 1.16 carat oval ruby with about .3 carat total diamond with the halo and around the finger. I was told it retailed for $5795 and I could purchase for $3375. I heard the elderly jeweler who gave that price asking the salesperson who we were working with if she knew us. He came up with the $3375 figure seemingly haphazardly, but I'm sure he had his methods.
Click to expand...
Hi Margaret - If you love this ring let's break it down a bit. They discounted it off the bat by 1/3. Since it has a diamond halo and shank, let's just say for argument's sake the setting is worth $1,375 that means the ruby is "worth" $2,000 (bearing in mind there is still jeweller mark up in all of this).

You've read Kay's thread and presumably looked at the rubies linked for her to look at. If you have read the sticky about "New to Coloured Gem Buying" also, are you prepared to ask the jeweller to send the ring to AGL for a brief report saying if it comes back unheated or with heat treatment only, you'll happily pay for the report ~$55 and buy the ring. I believe AGL can test the ruby without unmounting it. Since they haven't stated it's not treated (and they actually don't know) If the report comes back with other treatment stated, are you prepared to be out of pocket the $55 anyway for the peace of mind and walk away from the ring?

ETA: I forgot to say that if you do this, get the ring description, model # and reduced price in writing (even if it's on their business card). And please take photos to post here and we might be able to give you some further guidance. As to the comparison with Angara...my feeling is that you don't know what this ruby is so it's almost impossible to compare it with anything. As Chrono sys, you MUST know about treatments when buying ruby or sapphire.
 
Chrono|1350300259|3285439 said:
I don't understand how a store can sell something without knowing the specifics, especially when it comes to corundum. Without knowing the treatment and its level, the stone could be worth anywhere from $50 to $5000, so you MUST know this before you buy. The rating of A, AA, and AAA is not a a worldwide or even nationally recognized quality standard. Each store sets their own standard and rating, which is only known to them.

I wish I can advise you more on both rings but there is very little solid information on both.
1. Treatment type
2. Treatment level
3. Colour quality
4. Clarity
5. Cut
Click to expand...

I see three possibilities, Chrono:

1- The person setting the price knows the specifics but they weren't passed on to the salesperson
2- They are resellers. They buy from a catalog, slap on a margin and put the piece in the display case.
3- They are buying lower quality stones from a catalog (like Rio Grande) which uses the A, AA, AA-, etc grading.

In any case, that does tell the consumer something about the store.
 
Ah...thanks Chrono :))
 
Lady_Disdain|1350305157|3285459 said:
I see three possibilities, Chrono:

1- The person setting the price knows the specifics but they weren't passed on to the salesperson
2- They are resellers. They buy from a catalog, slap on a margin and put the piece in the display case.
3- They are buying lower quality stones from a catalog (like Rio Grande) which uses the A, AA, AA-, etc grading.

In any case, that does tell the consumer something about the store.
Click to expand...

Lady D,
I was trying to be kind to the store in my comments by trying to be less pointed. :lol: I am very sure the store owner knows exactly how much the ring (and stone) is worth.
 
Yeah, subtlety is not my strong point :lol:
 
Does this local store sell mostly diamond rings, or do they have a large/good variety of colored gemstone rings? I've found that some jewelers who are very knowledgeable in diamonds (where they often get the most markup) are often not that knowledgable about colored gemstones. If they only have a couple of colored gemstone rings I would consider that a red flag as to their knowledge level.
 
I hope you find your perfect ruby engagement ring!!
This process is harder than I thought. I wish we could just go to a jewelery store and get a good quality ruby ring already made for $3000, but now i know that's not realistic haha.
It would be much easier just buying a diamond engagement ring, but I guess that's why our rings will be special :)
 
Thank you for the posts.

So, it sounds that the most reliable way to figure out the value of the ruby is the AGL. Why wouldn't the jeweler already have this information available? Is there any other "official" documentation besides the AGL that would be helpful? Does the A system grading give you any info or is it unreliable b/c it is not standardized? Are there any other questions I should specifically ask aside from getting the AGL?
I would think that a small jewelry business would not want to be deceiving b/c if I bought the ring, then got it appraised for less than I bought it for, then it would be bad for business.
Angara says their rings are guaranteed to be valued at 125% or they will give you the money plus a percentage back, thoughts on this? The Angara rings come with a certificate, are these of value or comparable to an AGL or again non-standardized so not very useful?
This jeweler only had a few ruby rings, I don't know what else for colored gems, and mostly concentrated on diamonds.

Margaret
 
Firstly an appraisal is NOT a gem report in any way, shape or form.

An appraisal is often issued at the place of purchase so that the uneducated buyer can walk in, buy a ring and use the in-house appraisal provided to insure the ring. It gives an opinion on what the ring is worth and therefore the amount you would like the insurance company to pay you to replace it with another ring of equivalent quality should anything happen to it. That amount is not necessarily the amount that will be required to replace the ring with equivalent gems (and perhaps custom made setting) 5 or 10 years down the track. Indeed, not even next week depending on what a customer bought and what they think they bought.

A lab report (preferably AGL in the case of coloured stones in the US) on the other hand, confirms by testing with equipment and experience that jewellers don't have, exactly what it is that you have bought. Based on that information you can make an informed decision as to whether this the gem you want. A lab report does not value the stone for insurance purposes or any other purpose. However if the lab report is then sent to an independent appraiser who, with the information on the report and the purchase price, will give an evaluation of what it would cost to replace the gem and setting at the current market price - always assuming it could be replaced of course.

So, it sounds that the most reliable way to figure out the value of the ruby is the AGL. Why wouldn't the jeweler already have this information available? Is there any other "official" documentation besides the AGL that would be helpful?
Click to expand...
Because the equipment and education required to perform these evaluation reports is expensive and specialised. An AGL brief report will give you all you need to make an educated decision. If you read the differences in the reports they provide ) Chrono's link above) you can decide whether you want to pay for more extensive testing, origin etc.

Disclaimer: I know nothing about Angara except what I've been able to read briefly on their site.
Conclusion: I wouldn't buy from them. Why? Because I wouldn't want my ruby to look like this after a few years...



We can give you the information but it depends on you how much value you get for your money.

ruby-glass-filled.jpg

ruby-filled-crazing.jpg
 
Starzin, that was Wink Jones' article, wasn't it? Can you link it here? It is a REALLY scary, and eye opening, explanation of why extensively treated rubies are the equivalent of painted gravel.
 
The most reliable way to figure out the treatment level of the ruby (not the value directly but you can get a rough idea of the value from knowing the treatment level) is to send it to a reputable lab like AGL and GIA in the US. My preference is AGL because they are quick, have the inexpensive $55 brief which still does major testing and they are up to date with discovering the latest treatments.

A good jeweller will not hesitate to send their stones to the lab of your choice should you make the sale contingent on the result of the memo. It takes time and money to send gems to the labs so many jewellers only do it for the very expensive stones or by request only. The A, AA, AAA (and I have seen AAAA, AAAAA and add however many ++++ you like) is unreliable because it is not standarized so the level is more often than not, incredibly low to begin with.

Appraisals are usually for insurance purposes, not to verify how much it costs, if you got a good deal, etc. More often than not, they also tend to be over-inflated, giving the sense of snagging a deal when that may not be necessarily true.

Does Angara give any details on what they mean by valued at 125%? Compared to what? What sort of proof is required? The certificates they provide has a strong conflict of interest. This type of paper has little value because the vendor can put in whatever number they so choose.
 
The Angara website says they will refund "110% of the purchase price up to $250 add'l refund" if any accredited jewelry appraiser values the piece at 125% less than the purchase price or says that the piece does not have "exceptional craftsmanship".

I guess I just feel a bit lost. I will go back to that last jewelry store at least and have some better and specific questions and if I can't get answers, I will go elsewhere.

It seems that one can find a better deal online and I've seen Gemfix on this forum. Would this be a place to start for finding a ruby? I feel like finding the setting would be the easy part. Then the next question would be if I do find a good ruby in my budget, do I bring it to a local jeweler to make the ring? Looking at Gemfix, I've seen round or oval rubies around 1 carat with heat only treatment from 900s to $1500 which seems well in my budget of $3000-$3500 if a setting is even $1500. Does it cost to set the ruby as well or is that "included" if you purchase the setting? For example, on Gemfix, there ruby #517 oval VS, heat only, burmese for $1100. Is this the way I should proceed at this point?

Thank you!

And Kay-good luck to you!
 
My concern with Angara:
1. Many rubies are not well cut with windows ranging from medium sized to gaping doors.
2. None of them are accompanied by lab memos. Will they make the sale contingent on one? This is a must for rubies if I'm spending that much money to be sure it hasn't been glass filled.
3. It only says heat, but not the level of treatment.
4. No hand shots. Will Angara provide additional pictures or even a video?

Gemfix is a good place to start looking for rubies. Yes, the setting is definitely the easier task by far which is why PSers always request the buyer to find the stone first, then the setting. Once you have the stone, you can either get an off the shelf setting or custom setting. In both cases, the stone is sent off to the jeweller. The labour to set any gemstone costs anywhere from $50 to $100, which is separate from the cost of the setting itself, although sometimes the price is already built into the custom setting.
 
My fiancee went back to the small family owned jewelry store I mentioned in previous post. He expressed interest again in the ruby ring which I love. The jeweler/gemologist again repeated that the ruby is a high quality ruby, but he didn't know the specific questions to ask so she did not give any further info from the stone, but I will work on it. She said it is heat treated only. I am going to ask about any other information they know and request a brief AGL report as suggested b/c I really love it. Do you all think that the AGL report will suffice? I love the look of this ruby, I just want to make sure it stays that way.

I am posting a picture which doesn't do it justice. Again price is $3375, 1.16 ct.ruby.


I uploaded the picture under the diamond icon under "insert" and the picture uploaded, but I'm having trouble getting it uploaded into the text of this message.

https://www.pricescope.com/files/images/img_0039_1.JPG


Thank you, Starzin. No, it wasn't dark at all. I guess the picture quality just doesn't help with revealing any info. I'll attempt a better pic.
 
If you have the picture on your computer...underneath the reply box you will see a tab "upload attachment" click on it and click in the white area. Then navigate to your picture on your computer, when you have the url in the white area, click the "add the file" then you will see the file added below the text area . You can add a comment and you can position your cursor and click place inline.

Note the picture's file size before you attempt this - better for it to be around 500-600px wide/high or it may not load either.
 
Also...you can use the Preview button to see whether it has loaded satisfactorily before posting.

Okay I got it to display by putting a slash between com and files in the link you gave. Unfortunately this picture is little or no help by virtue of being so dark and too far away from the stone. Both ends of the stone appear dark in this photo. Did you go with your BF? Is that what you saw?
 
She said it is heat treated only. I am going to ask about any other information they know and request a brief AGL report as suggested b/c I really love it. Do you all think that the AGL report will suffice? I love the look of this ruby, I just want to make sure it stays that way.
Click to expand...

An AGL report should give you the information you need regarding treatment - heat and/or other enhancements and is the wise course of action if this is the ring you love - and it certainly sounds that way. Good luck!
 
I would still insist on a lab memo. It's a little dark but the entire picture is dark too.
How is it outdoors?
Does it fluorescence?
 
Chrono, by a lab memo, you mean AGL report?
 
Correct. Check out the ruby report because it is a little different from the rest. It will list how heavily it is treated but I'm not sure if you can get by with the brief or need the full report.
 
Anything further to update Margaret?
 
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