Ruby, ruby, ruby baby!

[bright ice]

Uppy, that's one gorgeous ruby Sometimes it pays to drag your feet. Your setting plan sounds perfect.

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Uppy, Very excited to see where this ends up! The setting you are describing would be a great compliment to your new ruby I think! Great find!

~Justin

 

[Tuffy]

exciting!! do you have the url link to the vendor's site? would love to check out what other loot he has!

 

[Lula]

Wow. I nominate this fluoro photo for the 2013 PS calendar. That stone is incredible!

 

[movie zombie]

you scored well!

 

[jeffdvs101]

good luck with the setting Uppy, can't wait to see it when it's finished

 

[AGBF]

As I was dragging my feet with indecision regarding a sapphire, something even better fell into my hands.

Uppy-

Rubies like that don't "fall". We wait years and years for them, peering at gems wherever we go, always vigilant, always thinking about rubies and red stones, always mentioning red stones to experts and gem dealers. Then some of us decide to settle for red spinels...and we count ourselves lucky if we get beautiful red ones, too! But a few, very, very lucky ones get actual rubies! Hearty congratulations, my friend! That is a heartstopping stone! And as soon as I read, "Diana" I wanted to shout, "Sarah Ferguson!". All of us who love rubies have loved that ring of Sarah, the Duchess of York for years! Diana's ring is nothing in comparison to it!

Deb/AGBF

 

[FrekeChild]

It is so so beautiful Uppy! I'm very happy for you! (And I can't wait to see it set!)

 

[Barrett]

Very nice, UPG!! Great buy!

 

[Lovinggems]

I love fat halos.
http://www.langantiques.com/products/item/30-91-3557
Lovely stone!

 

[stargurl78]

I love fat halos.
http://www.langantiques.com/products/item/30-91-3557
Lovely stone!

I love fat halos too! Especially with plain shanks. This ring is going to be stunning, Uppy!!!!!! Your ruby is absolutely gorgeous

 

[Upgradable]

As I was dragging my feet with indecision regarding a sapphire, something even better fell into my hands.

Uppy-

Rubies like that don't "fall". We wait years and years for them, peering at gems wherever we go, always vigilant, always thinking about rubies and red stones, always mentioning red stones to experts and gem dealers. Then some of us decide to settle for red spinels...and we count ourselves lucky if we get beautiful red ones, too! But a few, very, very lucky ones get actual rubies! Hearty congratulations, my friend! That is a heartstopping stone! And as soon as I read, "Diana" I wanted to shout, "Sarah Ferguson!". All of us who love rubies have loved that ring of Sarah, the Duchess of York for years! Diana's ring is nothing in comparison to it!

Deb/AGBF

Thank you, Deb. And you're right in everything you said. Rubies have always been my deep down, secret love. But I never, never thought I'd be able to have on of my own. That's one of the reasons I had my eternity ring (see avatar) made from a rescued vintage ring.

I will never look at this stone without knowing how incredibly lucky I am, and how all of my PS friends encouraged, educated, and enabled me!!

And I always loved Fergie so much more than Diana!!

 

[Arkteia]

Congratulations! So happy for you!

 

[marcy]

Ooh. Very pretty.

 

[bright ice]

As I was dragging my feet with indecision regarding a sapphire, something even better fell into my hands.

This is a 2.04 Burma ruby. It has a GRS cert that states heat with only minor residue. Size is 8.27 x 6.54 x 4.15.

Color is exactly what I dream about!!

So how did this happen Uppy?

 

[minousbijoux]

I'm curious to know if you need to treat it differently since it has minor residue, and what exactly minor residue even means - do you know what it is?

 

[Upgradable]

Here is what Jeff has to say about the stone and its H(b) designation:

"The residues are from the Borax used in the heating process, the fissures are completely sealed, there are no residues in the cavities and it is 100% permanent, nothing needs to be said to the jeweler, the only way he could damage it would be neglect , no different to an unheated stone, and there are no special ways of taking care of it, it can be treated like any Ruby or Sapphire.

This is really no different to a "heat only" Ruby, it's just the GRS goes into extreme detail.

best wishes

Jeff."

GRS has a great explanation on their site about enhancement disclosures. The grade heat treatment of rubies H(a) says "Extremely small residues of glass-like materials present in cavities or as isolated, extremely small residues in fissures affecting the weight of the gemstone less than approximately 0.001 carat." The only difference in H(b) is the residue is described as "minor residue." They grade through H(d).

 

[hlmr]

What a gorgeous ruby!! It will make an amazing ring!!

 

[minousbijoux]

Here is what Jeff has to say about the stone and its H(b) designation:

"The residues are from the Borax used in the heating process, the fissures are completely sealed, there are no residues in the cavities and it is 100% permanent, nothing needs to be said to the jeweler, the only way he could damage it would be neglect , no different to an unheated stone, and there are no special ways of taking care of it, it can be treated like any Ruby or Sapphire.

This is really no different to a "heat only" Ruby, it's just the GRS goes into extreme detail.

best wishes

Jeff."

GRS has a great explanation on their site about enhancement disclosures. The grade heat treatment of rubies H(a) says "Extremely small residues of glass-like materials present in cavities or as isolated, extremely small residues in fissures affecting the weight of the gemstone less than approximately 0.001 carat." The only difference in H(b) is the residue is described as "minor residue." They grade through H(d).

Oh good, I was hoping this would be the answer. Given the lengths GIA and AGL have gone to to distance themselves from glass-filled rubies (i.e., that they're not really considered rubies any more), I'm happy to know yours is nowhere near that. In fact, it sounds like the "minor residue" they found could easily have come from contact with another gem or from residue in the oven when heated...(I made up the last part, but it sounds plausible, doesn't it?

 

[Upgradable]

That was the discussion, minous. There is such minimal evidence of this, they consider the stone the equivalent of "heated only" while still giving full, complete disclosure.

This is the first time I've seen a GemResearch Swisslab document, and I've got to say I'm really impressed with their gemstone evaluation! Complete descriptor of color, treatment, and origin. It certainly makes me feel very assured of the state of this stone.

 

[RedSpinel]

Yep.

Reacts to UV light...

What does that^^ mean? Is there something important about a ruby reacting to UV light?

Its got some pretty good transparency, which is pretty rare for most rubies(just look at the completely opaque rubies at most chain jewelers). Its a little shallow, but it doesnt really matter I guess because you cant see any window anyway. Besides, a shallow, but mostly transparent ruby is preferable to a deeper cut opaque ruby....

I always worry when it comes to buying rubies, because you often dont really know what you're getting til you get it, then you find it looks different than it did in the pictures! You often dont know if you might have paid too much, til you get it..... Then often you find out that you DID pay too much! But it didnt seem that way when you were ordering it based on its pics.

 

[RedSpinel]

Here is what Jeff has to say about the stone and its H(b) designation:

"The residues are from the Borax used in the heating process, the fissures are completely sealed, there are no residues in the cavities and it is 100% permanent, nothing needs to be said to the jeweler, the only way he could damage it would be neglect , no different to an unheated stone, and there are no special ways of taking care of it, it can be treated like any Ruby or Sapphire.

This is really no different to a "heat only" Ruby, it's just the GRS goes into extreme detail.

best wishes

Jeff."

GRS has a great explanation on their site about enhancement disclosures. The grade heat treatment of rubies H(a) says "Extremely small residues of glass-like materials present in cavities or as isolated, extremely small residues in fissures affecting the weight of the gemstone less than approximately 0.001 carat." The only difference in H(b) is the residue is described as "minor residue." They grade through H(d).

I have seen that lab being used regularly by a few Thai gems dealers on Ebay when they are selling a "Buy It Now" gem of higher price.

As far as your comment about "the jeweler not needing to be made aware of the possible treatment, because they couldnt damage it unless they neglected it....." I would make them aware of anything like that, so that if they do manage to somehow damage the stone, they cant blame you for not telling them in advance. Believe me, if some jewelers damage your stone while mounting, and they certainly do damage gems, they will immediately try to find a way out of reimbursing the customer for their mistake!

I've been to 2 different jewelers, both were word or mouth, and both were private, non-mall type chain jewelers. One was in a nice, expensive brick salon, on their own property, and they managed to put a chip in the side of a 3.5ct blue star sapphire when mounting it for me, then they tried to get me out the door as soon as possible before I noticed it! But I noticed it before I left their property, so they couldnt say I did the damage, but they still managed to procrastinate, BS their way out of fixing it! Same thing happened at another jeweler recommended by a client of mine, and that jeweler cracked a nice 5ct crystal opal I had them mount into a pendant for a friend. Once again, they BS-ed their way out of fixing it, and I eventually gave up...... But at least both stones were not completely destroyed and they did hold up in their mounts, but they had obvious cracks/chips in them nonetheless!

Pick a good jeweler, and inform them of any possible issues.

 

[LD]

Yep.

Reacts to UV light...

What does that^^ mean? Is there something important about a ruby reacting to UV light?

Its got some pretty good transparency, which is pretty rare for most rubies(just look at the completely opaque rubies at most chain jewelers). Its a little shallow, but it doesnt really matter I guess because you cant see any window anyway. Besides, a shallow, but mostly transparent ruby is preferable to a deeper cut opaque ruby....

I always worry when it comes to buying rubies, because you often dont really know what you're getting til you get it, then you find it looks different than it did in the pictures! You often dont know if you might have paid too much, til you get it..... Then often you find out that you DID pay too much! But it didnt seem that way when you were ordering it based on its pics.

Seriously? Do you have any idea how lucky Uppy is to have a 2ct stone like this? They are difficult to find. You really need to move away from "cut" is king!

I also don't understand your point about the residue -v- having to disclose to a jeweller. The issue with Ruby treatments (NOT this level of residue) is that acid baths used sometimes when setting can cause the filling to turn white, crack the stone etc. Uppy doesn't need to disclose this treatment to a jeweller because her ruby is not filled. Disclosing treatments to a jeweller and finding a good setter are two completely different things.

GRS are a well respected Gem Laboratory and used commonly by people in Europe (over AGL in most cases). Please don't insinuate that because Ebay sellers use them they're no good. That's not the case at all.

 

[jeffdvs101]

@ Redspinel, why warn a jeweler of issues, when there are none?

 

[RedSpinel]

Yep.

Reacts to UV light...

What does that^^ mean? Is there something important about a ruby reacting to UV light?

Its got some pretty good transparency, which is pretty rare for most rubies(just look at the completely opaque rubies at most chain jewelers). Its a little shallow, but it doesnt really matter I guess because you cant see any window anyway. Besides, a shallow, but mostly transparent ruby is preferable to a deeper cut opaque ruby....

I always worry when it comes to buying rubies, because you often dont really know what you're getting til you get it, then you find it looks different than it did in the pictures! You often dont know if you might have paid too much, til you get it..... Then often you find out that you DID pay too much! But it didnt seem that way when you were ordering it based on its pics.

Seriously? Do you have any idea how lucky Uppy is to have a 2ct stone like this? They are difficult to find. You really need to move away from "cut" is king!

I also don't understand your point about the residue -v- having to disclose to a jeweller. The issue with Ruby treatments (NOT this level of residue) is that acid baths used sometimes when setting can cause the filling to turn white, crack the stone etc. Uppy doesn't need to disclose this treatment to a jeweller because her ruby is not filled. Disclosing treatments to a jeweller and finding a good setter are two completely different things.

GRS are a well respected Gem Laboratory and used commonly by people in Europe (over AGL in most cases). Please don't insinuate that because Ebay sellers use them they're no good. That's not the case at all.

No offense, but you didnt seem to understand the very sentence that you took the time to highlight. I very clearly stated that "it doesnt matter that the stone is shallow"..... So, no I dont think that "cut is king", but its its important most of the time. You seem to be saying that cut isnt hardly important at all, most of the time, and I respectfully disagree with that. But its not that important with this particular stone, as I posted.

To Jeffsdvs101: I mentioned to tell the jeweler based on her statements about the mention of possible treatment to the ruby. It does say that in the appraisal, does it not? I've read posts here where people have said its not that bad, but I'm just saying its better to be forthcoming to protect yourself. Thats my opinion based on personal experience, if you disagree with that, thats your prerogative.

To be clear though, because it seems people are reacting negatively to my post even though there wasnt anything negative in my post, I like the stone, I'd buy it in a heartbeat!

 

[LD]

Yep.

Reacts to UV light...

What does that^^ mean? Is there something important about a ruby reacting to UV light?

Its got some pretty good transparency, which is pretty rare for most rubies(just look at the completely opaque rubies at most chain jewelers). Its a little shallow, but it doesnt really matter I guess because you cant see any window anyway. Besides, a shallow, but mostly transparent ruby is preferable to a deeper cut opaque ruby....

I always worry when it comes to buying rubies, because you often dont really know what you're getting til you get it, then you find it looks different than it did in the pictures! You often dont know if you might have paid too much, til you get it..... Then often you find out that you DID pay too much! But it didnt seem that way when you were ordering it based on its pics.

Seriously? Do you have any idea how lucky Uppy is to have a 2ct stone like this? They are difficult to find. You really need to move away from "cut" is king!

I also don't understand your point about the residue -v- having to disclose to a jeweller. The issue with Ruby treatments (NOT this level of residue) is that acid baths used sometimes when setting can cause the filling to turn white, crack the stone etc. Uppy doesn't need to disclose this treatment to a jeweller because her ruby is not filled. Disclosing treatments to a jeweller and finding a good setter are two completely different things.

GRS are a well respected Gem Laboratory and used commonly by people in Europe (over AGL in most cases). Please don't insinuate that because Ebay sellers use them they're no good. That's not the case at all.

No offense, but you didnt seem to understand the very sentence that you took the time to highlight. I very clearly stated that "it doesnt matter that the stone is shallow"..... So, no I dont think that "cut is king", but its its important most of the time. You seem to be saying that cut isnt hardly important at all, most of the time, and I respectfully disagree with that. But its not that important with this particular stone, as I posted.

To Jeffsdvs101: I mentioned to tell the jeweler based on her statements about the mention of possible treatment to the ruby. It does say that in the appraisal, does it not? I've read posts here where people have said its not that bad, but I'm just saying its better to be forthcoming to protect yourself. Thats my opinion based on personal experience, if you disagree with that, thats your prerogative.

To be clear though, because it seems people are reacting negatively to my post even though there wasnt anything negative in my post, I like the stone, I'd buy it in a heartbeat!

Redspinel - I haven't acted negatively to your post but I felt that it contained inaccuracies. As Jeff and I have both said there is absolutely NO reason to tell a jeweller about minimal residue. It's not the same as a filler. Not the same at all. Therefore why say anything? It makes no difference to the way the stone is handled from a heated or unheated stone.

I think your comment about the cut of Uppy's stone was uncalled for. It's a beautiful stone. You recently started a thread calling anything other than precision cut "lousy" and to point out that it's shallow is just not warranted. Having said that, I'm glad that you would buy it in a heartbeat. Most people would.

As to your comment that I am saying cut isn't important at all - I have no idea where you think I've said that! I have both precision cut and native cut stones. Each have their place BUT the rarity of a gem far outweighs cut - every single time.

 

[jeffdvs101]

it doesn't state possible treatment, it states the exact treatment! and to set it will be exactly the same as any other Ruby or Sapphire

 

[chrono]

Here is what Jeff has to say about the stone and its H(b) designation:

"The residues are from the Borax used in the heating process, the fissures are completely sealed, there are no residues in the cavities and it is 100% permanent, nothing needs to be said to the jeweler, the only way he could damage it would be neglect , no different to an unheated stone, and there are no special ways of taking care of it, it can be treated like any Ruby or Sapphire.

This is really no different to a "heat only" Ruby, it's just the GRS goes into extreme detail.

best wishes

Jeff."

GRS has a great explanation on their site about enhancement disclosures. The grade heat treatment of rubies H(a) says "Extremely small residues of glass-like materials present in cavities or as isolated, extremely small residues in fissures affecting the weight of the gemstone less than approximately 0.001 carat." The only difference in H(b) is the residue is described as "minor residue." They grade through H(d).

Uppy,
I really REALLY don't want to rain on your parade because I think you have a nice looking ruby in your hands, but please read this article from Richard Hughes to make the decision yourself.
http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/flux_healing_mong_hsu_ruby.htm

Quotation
With the explosion of Mong Hsu ruby onto the market, it became obvious that traditional lab nomenclature was not equipped to deal with this treatment. Thus in 1997, while directing the colored stone identification department of the Los Angeles office of European Gem Labs (EGL), I developed terminology to honestly describe this treatment. The idea was to provide the customer with an estimate of how this treatment had impacted the gem. A number of labs (AGTA, GIA, Gübelin, SSEF, GIT, GAAJ) have now adopted elements of this nomenclature and refined its application (see Lab Manual Harmonization Committee, 2004). The author’s suggested nomenclature is as follows and it can (and should) be applied to other treatments:
•Treatment type: Indications of heating + flux healing of fractures
•Extent: Minor/moderate/significant number of flux-healed fractures
•Stability: Stable/unstable under normal wearing conditions
•Prevalence: Never/rarely/commonly/usually/always found in the market

In the case of glass infilling, the size of filled cavities is important, with larger fillings having a greater impact on the appearance and weight of the stone.

The opposite is the case with flux healing. The more perfectly the treatment is applied, the less residue that might be present in the healed fracture.

 

[Upgradable]

Thank you all for your kind remarks. It makes me glad to know that my CS Homies will stand up for what they believe is right. And I must clarify that this is different than sticking up for a bud! CS has always been the Wild West of PS. When we shoot, we shoot straight, no matter the target. We call a dog a dog, and a real gem, just that. And I appreciate that. I have always appreciated the input I get here. It has helped me develop my eye, or maybe nose, for good stones.

At the risk of coming across as elitist, Red Spinel, you just joined this board. We have not been able to get a read on your knowledge base, experience, or willingness to listen to unbiased evaluations regarding gemstones. Well, maybe, we've gotten a little glance at the latter. Why do you come to this board and begin pontificating about native cutters being ignorant of the "added value" of precision cutting, when it is obvious you have no concept of how the marketplace works? It is a giant red flag as to the questionable nature of the rest of your body of knowledge.

Now, I'm a long time member of PS, with a disproportionately low post count. Hopefully that indicates that I use my ears twice as much as my mouth, and have gleaned some excellent info from these people, professionals and prosumers alike. I would never, NEVER disrespect them in the manner you have, even when I happen to disagree with them. I hope you soon find the value of doing that for yourself.

(Stepping down off my soapbox.)

 

[chrono]

Red Spinel,

GRS is a very reputable lab and widely used and respected in Europe and all over the world, really. My only gripe with GRS is their old fashioned nomenclature of "pidgeon's blood" and such description for the colour of the gemstone.

Quote from Richard Hughes article:
http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/flux_healing_mong_hsu_ruby.htm

Flux healing involves heating corundums with borax or other fluxes. These fluxes actually dissolve the surfaces, including the internal surfaces of cracks. The corundum within this molten material then re-deposits on the fracture surfaces, filling and healing the fractures shut. Undigested material cools into pockets of flux glass. Essentially this amounts to a microscopic deposition of synthetic ruby to heal the cracks closed.

In the broadest sense, this is akin to the oiling of emerald – both treatments involve reduction of reflections from included cracks/fissures. Similar to placing an ice cube in water, a filled fracture is much less visible because the filler replaces air (RI = 1.00) with a substance that has an RI that more closely matches the gem itself (1.76–1.77). However, the flux healing of Mong Hsu rubies differs in three important respects:
•The Mong Hsu ruby treatment is not a fracture filling, but a permanent healing of the fractures and fissures, with any filling merely a remnant of the process. In many respects, it is a welding of fractures, similar to the joining of two pieces of metal with heat and a flux to lower their melting point.
•The Mong Hsu ruby treatment is permanent and irreversible. Unlike the oil in an oiled emerald, flux remnants will not drain out in the future, nor can they be removed. There is no way to have a stone revert back to the untreated state.
•The Mong Hsu ruby treatment actually improves a stone’s durability, since the fractures are permanently healed shut.