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Sacrifice color for size?

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Date: 3/21/2006 10:45:21 AM
Author:Sammy2006


F color 1.15 carat or a G color 1.25 carat.
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After all is said and done, these two guys could be darn close after all... because of the difference of proportions but.. it really is just 10 points between them. That''s probably all that tells them apart (leaving aside whatever it is not described in these posts) with color and clarity differences probably invisible... but this doesn''t mean it is an important difference.

These H&A ideals are such a tough call to tell apart - with top quality in all the right places and little left to haggle over slight nuances of personality.



To make things easier
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How does this guy sound?

weight: 1.274
size: 7.05-7.07*4.25

AGS grades: F/SI1
fluorescence: no

Cut: AGS0, H&A
HCA score: 0.9-EX (ex-ex-ex-ex)

depth: 60.2%
table: 55%
crown: 34.7°
pavilion: 40.7°
girdle: 0.8-3.5

price: $8200
 
One thing that most people probably don''t consider when comparing, say, an H and an I, is that you can be comparing a "low" H that is almost an I to a "high" I that is almost an H....of course, the difference will be very small. But the next time you are comparing an H and an I you could be comparing a high H that is almost a G to an I that is near J.

With each color grade down the chart, the spectrum increases and the variance within one color grade enlarges. There is more color option within the same grade. Correct me if I am wrong, but that seemed to be the word from our appraiser. I hadn''t thought that there was a reason that the color chart looked the way it did, silly me.

Anyway, I still think you can''t go wrong with either stone!
 
Date: 3/21/2006 2:19:27 PM
Author: Rod

I''m sorry but I have to wonder if you''re really seeing color differences or differences in cut. Not all color grades are the same and not all cuts are the same and it''s been proven over and over that a really well cut stone can face up whiter than a poorly cut higher grade color stone.

Perhaps the stone you saw sitting across from you was not a very well cut stone.
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So many possibilities. No one wears tags describing cut/color/grading lab so it''s hard to accu-gander.

As far as preference goes, buy the stone, not the paper.
 
It's all about priorities and there is no right or wrong.

I'm not color blind, I can see colors quite well in everyday life...but I'm just not color sensitive when it comes to diamonds. I do know that there is a difference between my J and my G or else they would both be J's or G's or whatever. But my eye can't *readily* pick up the visual difference on a regular viewing basis. There is an odd time or two when my diamond does show the color that most likely makes it a J but it's very rare!

Having had a few various colors of the diamond rainbow in stones has taught me alot, we obviously started off with a more conservative color at G, and it was so blinding white it kind of bothered me. The H was the same way. I also have a darker skin tone so I think that any diamond looks whiter and brighter on my hand than a paler skinned gal. So maybe that allows me to go lower in the color spectrum and still have the diamond show up bright white.

Some people swear they can see a visual difference when set of an E or F or G stone, I can't. Now side by side bottoms up on a white paper, sure maybe. But in regular viewing, set into a ring, many people will not be able to. But again it is about priorities and what yours are, what everyone's are...personally I like not being very sensitive to color because it does allow me to get that size that I do desperately love!!! I'd be bummed if I was the size whore that I am and could see color and clarity differences...I'd be 'stuck' with a .60c D VVS or something for the same price. hehehe.
 
I total get what your saying Mara. Believe me, being able to tell color has not been kind to my wallet. But it''s something that I happen to notice more so than size, unless the stones are very different in size I can''t tell a 1.25 from a 1.5.
I never considered your theory on skin tone and how that affects the tinting of your stone. Very interesting piece of information to digest there. I wonder if there is anyway I can get my girlfriend to stay out of the tanning booth so I can take weekly pictures so I can compare before and after shots;-)
I guess what it all comes down to is "different strokes for different folks"
 
Personally I''d go for the G color. I consider myself color sensitive and would much rather pay for a higher color than clarity anyday however between and F and a G you aren''t talking much difference if any noticeable so with that I''d choose size! Most ladies I think would choose size...who wouldn''t want a big diamond LOL???
As many said it''s just a personal preference. I would personally not consider a VS stone just because I know if I''m patient (as I was) I can/could find a great SI 1-2 for a better deal on a great stone with a bigger size/better color. If I would have been willing to drop to the J-K range I probably would have gotten a bigger stone but I''ve got pale hands and already have a D colored stone so I know the warmth I''d see would bother me quite a bit. But that''s me and my needs. I don''t think anyone is right/wrong, color blind, or nuts for wanting to go up or down in color or clarity...I may not see the need for what someone else is doing (buying a IF D for instance) but hey...I''m not the one taking a hit in the wallet and won''t be wearing so if it floats their boat then by all means buy it
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Wow, I never thought I would spark such a debate and get so much valuable feedback. I think I am going to go with the bigger G. Like so many of you said it boils down to personal preferrence and I think for me and my soon to be fiance (fingers crossed) this will ideal for the money I am spending. Where a lot of you are diamond people, I am a finance guy, and I think in the long run it would bug me more to know I could have had a bigger diamond with no noticable difference in color for the same price than it will to know that the diamond isn''t as white as it could possibly be.

Again, thanks for all the help. Now I just need some ideas for popping the question in London or Spain in a few weeks!!!
 
Are these diamonds that you can see in person? If so go and look at them in different conditions and just pick the prettier one. That''s all it really comes down to in the end.

Just based on the info you''ve given us, I''d pick the smaller F over the G. I don''t like the proportions on the larger stone at all.
 
actually that was the thing i didn''t say...i don''t like the numbers on that G, the depth is too high for me.
 
This is a difficult question to answer for me,

At first I was going to say that you should choose the G b/c in rounds the difference b/w F and G is less noticable and some prefer the warmer tone of round stones, but then realized that I would probably go with an F it was ultimately my decision. When purchasing earing studs, I choose to go with the .8 total F color H&A over about 1ct total G color H&A, and these were only earings. IMO the difference in SIZE OR COLOR would be unnoticable to an observer, unless they are comparing the stones side by side, so its really about what you value more. (Plus, as others have mentioned, the spread may be similar on both stones) YOU will be the one that will notice the size difference and the color difference more, not the observer. This is ultimately a question of what is "mind-clean" to you: can you sacrifise the color for the size?

I would chose the F color. But then, as others have said, this is comming form a D VVS girl.
 
I tend to be very color sensitive, but chose size over color. LOL I hope I don''t regret my decision, but Jonathan said there wasn''t a hint of yellow from any angle in my stone. If you think about it, no one EVER asks what color is it? They always ask how big. Now that being said CUT for me and I assume for many others trumps all go for best cut. Will you see a difference btw F and G? you may...I can, but as many have said you need to find out as best you can what your sweetie''s preference is that will trump any of the C''s
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I would choose the F. If the size difference was a little larger for the G, then I would say a G, but since they will appear very similar and are the same price, I would go with the better color.

I went from a 1.5 F to a 2 ct. G, although there was a 2 ct. F that was available at the time, but the price difference bet. the 2 ct. F and 2 ct. G was >$3k and the clarity plot on my G was much better.

Now, if there was a 1.9 F and the 2 ct. G and they were the same price, I would have gone for the F.

I have to say, I don''t notice a difference at all in color though.
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Date: 3/21/2006 5:06:58 PM
Author: cymbrie
If you think about it, no one EVER asks what color is it? They always ask how big.
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No one has ever asked me "how big" about my e-ring. One person asked "what colour is it?" The person who asked has a three-stone D colour ring herself, tcw about 1.5ct.

I would far rather know someone''s diamond colour than size; I can estimate if it''s half a carat or one carat (anything bigger is just "more than one carat" to me) but I like to know the colour to see if I was close when I guessed.

I''m really not that interested in size, certainly not in differences of 0.1 or 0.2 of a carat.
 
I''d pick the F/1.15. People seem to agree that the difference between F/G or 1.15/1.25 is nearly imperceptible. I''d get more enjoyment out of knowing that my diamond made it to the colorless category than knowing my stone is 0.1ct larger.
 
Date: 3/21/2006 6:42:50 PM
Author: cinnabar

Date: 3/21/2006 5:06:58 PM
Author: cymbrie
If you think about it, no one EVER asks what color is it? They always ask how big.
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No one has ever asked me ''how big'' about my e-ring. One person asked ''what colour is it?'' The person who asked has a three-stone D colour ring herself, tcw about 1.5ct.

I would far rather know someone''s diamond colour than size; I can estimate if it''s half a carat or one carat (anything bigger is just ''more than one carat'' to me) but I like to know the colour to see if I was close when I guessed.

I''m really not that interested in size, certainly not in differences of 0.1 or 0.2 of a carat.
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Like Cymbrie I have never had anyone ask color of my stone, even when I had a G. People don''t even ask my husband the color of his E (woops I thought it was an F up above!) ACA stone in his ring, they just ask how big it is. It''s a size whore society! Supersize it!
 
I have never been asked about color either. Some will ask how big the center stone is but that''s it.
 
No one has ever ASKED me about the color of my stone, but they HAVE commented how nice (clear, colorless) it looks even from the side....
It would be really hard to me to give that up...

Therefore, if I ever get a bigger diamond, we''d better be able to afford size AND color(less)!!!! (because the bigger the diamond, I think it is more noticeable...depending on the setting, and how much is covered by prongs!!)

I think a good balance is nice...you aren''t talking about a big difference...have you seen/compared???
 
I agree that most people who ask about your ring will care a lot more about size than color. When describing my diamond to the average person who asks, I''d probably round to the closest half carat though. So both of these would be "a little over 1 carat". Now, a 1.35ct (say H color?) would be a different story.
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I have a D color marquise and NEVER has anyone asked me what color stone I have. Today my neighbor asked me if I just cleaned my diamond because it was white and sparkly (lmao...I now know the best cleaning solutions thanks to you cleaning obsessed psers
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) and I responded by saying I changed the setting and now my diamond sticks out much more. She said she never noticed how big it was before and what size is it??? And that''s one example of many I''ve had ask me the size of my ring. I agree...it''s a size whore society!
 
Just to give this discussion a different perspective...It may not be that our society just doesn''t care about color, but that they may not have that much knowlege in color or that it may be less customary to ask. I have had people tell me "wow your diamond looks like its such a great quality compared to mine," referring only to the color of the stone. One woman even said "I though my jeweler told me mine was an ideal cut, so why is yours whiter than mine?" People may just notice that the ring looks very white withoutrealizing its because the stone is in the colorless or near-colorless range; their reference may just be better or worst, but what accounts for it they don''t know.

Secondly, I think asking about the color or clarity of the stone is less customary. I will always feel more comfortable asking someone about the carat weight of their stone before color, even though what I really want to know is the color or clarity. I feel like people will think I am judging them when I ask them about their color or clarity. So I am always discouraged form asking, even though I want to. Even when I went to the jewelery store to look at wedding rings, the sales woman didn''t ask me if mine was a D until I asked her how much it would be with D/E color diamonds. When I said yes its a D, she said, "I thought so, you can just tell the quality so well." My point is that just because people don''t ASK, doesn''t mean they don''t SEE.
 
Kaleidoscopic,
I always want to ask too. But your right, I feel like if I ask about color then I''m kind of passing judgement. An Ideal Cut D color stone anyday for me, well maybe an E if the price is right.
I''m looking now for a pear shaped D in the 3/4 carat range for a teardrop necklace for Sweetness'' B-day. I hope I find it soon!
 
Sammy,

Last week I came down to almost the exact same decision: 1.15-F ACA vs. 1.26-G Ideal, except the two I was looking at were both SI1. I made the same choice, the G, for the size. Some people might have felt better with the F ACA, I just knew that I would feel better having the bigger diamond. Also, my girlfriend has compared a G to an H directly, and could see the difference, but could not see the difference in the F to G. (Could have been a low F, could have been a low H, who knows. That direct comparison was good enough for me.)
 
Appears that size wins over color by a ratio of around 4 or 5 to 1. I''m not surprised. Is anyone?
 
Date: 3/22/2006 1:39:33 AM
Author: Kaleidoscopic
Even when I went to the jewelery store to look at wedding rings, the sales woman didn't ask me if mine was a D until I asked her how much it would be with D/E color diamonds. When I said yes its a D, she said, 'I thought so, you can just tell the quality so well.' My point is that just because people don't ASK, doesn't mean they don't SEE.
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I'm not sure the example is apt. Or shows what you're thinking it does. The saleslady pretty much KNEW your stone was a "D" when you were looking for a matching D/E stone ring. People generally claim knowledge of something after the fact, even if they had no idea. I.e. -- "Yes of course it's a boy!" PLUS -- salespeople as a rule want to "bond" with you, flatter you ... I NEVER take complements personally if they come from someone who wants to sell me something.

Some people may indeed be able to tell a "D" on the street, or from a distance ... but that doesn't mean they're thinking "OH A D, so rare, it's a perfect stone" There's also the chance they're thinking "Oh A D ... what a waste of money! What a naive shopper!" Because some people have that attitude about "D's".
 
Hey Kevin,
I''m not suprised at all. It such a personal choice. It''s like buying a white or a black car. I think the universal truth here though is that no one would settle for anything less than the very best cut. I guess thats why it''s the first C.
 
Deco,
Thats true, maybe people do think that. Thats why it''s a personal choice. When someone I know gets engaged and they show me the ring, unless it''s a honker, the first thing I notice is color. If''s it''s tinted the first thing I think is someone didn''t do their homework or someone was being "cheap". So maybe people do have a certain attitude about D''s. But that attitude goes both ways. My attitude is they are well worth the little bit of extra money to have the colorless pet rock. Do I think less of someone becasue they have an H or an I color stone, No. But if someone is giving up everything else just to have a larger stone then I think they are just vain. These are the same people that usually brag about how big their dull stone is.
Other people might disagree and be willing to sacrifice color for sizes. But I''ll take a higher color over .1 carat difference in size anyday of the week if everything else was identical. So who''s right? I don''t think anyone could be right or wrong since it''s such a matter of personal choice.
 
Date: 3/22/2006 1:19:28 PM
Author: klavigne
Deco,
Thats true, maybe people do think that. Thats why it's a personal choice. When someone I know gets engaged and they show me the ring, unless it's a honker, the first thing I notice is color. If's it's tinted the first thing I think is someone didn't do their homework or someone was being 'cheap'. So maybe people do have a certain attitude about D's. But that attitude goes both ways. My attitude is they are well worth the little bit of extra money to have the colorless pet rock. Do I think less of someone becasue they have an H or an I color stone, No. But if someone is giving up everything else just to have a larger stone then I think they are just vain. These are the same people that usually brag about how big their dull stone is.
Other people might disagree and be willing to sacrifice color for sizes. But I'll take a higher color over .1 carat difference in size anyday of the week if everything else was identical. So who's right? I don't think anyone could be right or wrong since it's such a matter of personal choice.
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klav...just because someone has a 'tinted' stone doesn't mean they were 'cheap' or didn't do their homework, maybe they want the stone that way. also, anything other than D will have SOME TINT...period.

also, it's not a 'little extra bit of money' to have a colorless rock. for example a 2c E SI1 vs a 2c I SI1, the price difference is about $7k, which in most households is not remotely close to just a little bit of money.

it's important to realize that no one is right or wrong, because it is about preferences, but it sucks when someone is a snob about color and clarity and think things in their mind like 'oh someone cheaped out' because they didn't buy a colorless stone. Along the same lines, why is someone who wants a bigger stone and sacrifices color and clarity to get a larger size VAIN? what is vain about wanting a bigger diamond? is it not just as vain to want a colorless stone?

these color threads are always so interesting..
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IMO VANITY is about intent. If you''re buying a "D" because you think it''s "best" or will "impress" people, that''s Vain. If you''re buying a HUGE rock because you think it''s "flashiest" or will "impress" people, that''s Vain.

If you''re buying ANY stone, with any combination of specs that appeals to you and your SO, because it''s where you place your OWN value. That''s not vain, it''s SMART.

p.s. -- I think it''s telling that artisans like Leon Mege and Vera Wang consider F-H the "sweet spot" for e-rings because of their supposed "size to value" ratio.
 
Wow...vain is such a strong word
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I have a D color and that''s because I have a marquise and it NEEDS a D in order to look good IMO. But I just received my RB today (pictures to come
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) and it''s a G. I looked at them both side by side...yes, you can see a bit of color difference but it''s very, very slight. My D is super white and my G is white. Maybe I''m cheap because I didn''t get the D color this time...well I consider myself lucky. I got an amazing stone with still great color for a great price! I''m not willing to pay thousands extra for the D color when it''ll sparkle and look just the same. I have to agree with Mara here...if it''s vain to need a bigger diamond then it''s vain to need a D color. I''d take a bigger lower colored stone over D color anyday. Being a D owner myself...I just don''t see that it''s such a big deal and I consider myself much more color sensitive than clarity. My 2c...it''s a bit judgemental to think someone didn''t do their homework or were being cheap because they didn''t for higher color. Maybe that''s just their preference...we all have them
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Ditto Mara - I own an L colour round and it faces up extremely white, it wasn''t a case of me being cheap that I chose it, just wanting to maximise size for the budget as some choose their D IF''s. If you can get the size you want and like the warmer colours it can be a great choice. Don''t automatically write off a diamond as being bad Klavigne if it does have a bit of warmth or isn''t a D, it is a personal choice. Personally I would never buy a D high clarity as this to me would be a waste of money but I wouldn''t knock anyone else''s decision to do so.
 
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