Sapphire Pricing?

[ika411]

Hi everyone! My boyfriend and I are going to see a round diamond-cut sapphire this weekend for our e-ring. We've been looking for 6 months and think this might be exactly what we're looking for. We're amateurs at this so we are wondering what you guys think should be the kind of price we can expect. Here are its specs as we've been told by the cutter:

Origin: Madagascar
Cut: diamond
Size: around 7.7mm
Weight: 2.21 carat
Color: medium blue/cornflower
Treatment: none
Clarity: I don't know exactly what it is. We saw it as a cushion before it was re-cut to round and it looked clean to the naked eye. If what the cutter says turns out to be true, it should be vivid, silky and void of haze.

Thanks!

 

[chrono]

It is going to depend on the quality of the colour - purity of hue, tone and saturation. There are also other considerations such as colour zoning. You mentioned silky - how silky is it? Is there any way for you to post a few pictures or at least a comparable picture from elsewhere?

Gemfix should be a good place for you to peruse for comparable stones and pricing.

 

[ika411]

Thanks Chrono! Unfortunately we have yet to see the stone as a round. Here are some pictures we took of it when we saw it as a cushion last weekend. (I apologize the quality is not that great.) The color is not as dark as it seems in the picture. Here are some additional information I got from the cutter today:

Dimension: 7.85mm x 4.89mm
Clarity: Eye clean/extra fine

"The cut grade is easily a 10," he added.

 

[minousbijoux]

Thanks for the photos. Even if they are really dark, they show a stone that is lacking in saturation. See how it's almost greyish purplish blue? The grey modifier indicates a lack of saturated blue hue. When it is really, really blue, it would be considered vivid. I don't know how even a cut could change that stone to one considered vivid, but I'm not expert. The color of this sapphire in this thread is much more representative of a vivid hue:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-sapphire.171999/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-sapphire.171999/[/URL]

But more photos would be really helpful, because I bet your stone is a lot nicer than your photos indicate. Also, it would be nice to know - is this recut being done by a precision cutter? If so, there will likely be a premium on the price of the stone.

 

[ChrisA222]

Thats a pretty impressive re-cut, if you are getting a 7.7mm round out of a cushion that was only 7.85x7.85. There is not much loss there at all!

 

[chrono]

What on earth is a cut rating of 10? Whose rating is it? What does it represent? I also don't understand how a 7x5 mm stone can cut a 7.5 mm round because unless he/she is going to glue material onto the 5 mm side, it just isn't physically possible. Can you please clarify? The before colour helps a little but seeing the retouched stone will be more accurate.

 

[ChrisA222]

Chrono I thought that too initially, but then I (thought) I figured out the stone must have started 7.85x7.85 and the 4.89 must be the depth...no?

 

[chrono]

The picture of the original stone shows a rectangular cushion, not a square.

 

[ChrisA222]

Thats what I thought the first time, then I figured it must just be the photos. In any case, something does not add up correctly.

 

[ika411]

Sorry for the confusion. The original cushion was over 8mm+ on both sides. The 7.89mm diameter x 4.89mm depth are the new dimensions for the round diamond cut. I have no idea what a cut rating of 10 is either; was hoping someone here would be able to enlighten me.

Does anyone know what a good price per carat for Madagascar unheated is? Or even a range? I know this is an EXTREMELY broad question but we want to be able to gauge whether or not we're getting ripped off when we get there tomorrow morning.

 

[chrono]

There are several things that make it almost impossible to give you a price per carat, or even a range. Depending on the colour, which nobody except the lapidary has seen, it could be super nice to not so nice, meaning the price could be anywhere from $300 to $3000.

Just a few things to note:
1. Although cut is important, pricing is still predominantly set by colour.
2. As long as the stone is eye clean, it's good.
3. In terms of cut, there is no standardized cut grading so nobody except the lapidary (who created this system for himself) knows what it means.
4. There is no added premium for the Madagascar origin.

As I posted earlier, check out the links below for unheated stones of around 2 ct to get a feel for pricing.
http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html
http://www.ajsgem.com/blue-sapphire-gemstone-sapphire-2046340410.html

 

[ika411]

Thanks Chrono! Very helpful tips. We'll keep these in mind and try to get some pics tomorrow.

 

[minousbijoux]

FWIW, the May/June issue of The Gem Guide provides prices for blue corundum. What is surprising, though, is that for being such a popular stone, you would think that there would be more pricing categories included. Currently, The Guide has prices for just three categories in blue corundum: 1) generic blue sapphire; 2) Unenhanced Burmese blue sapphire; and 3) Montana blue sapphire. Clearly, your stone would fall into the first category, but its irritating that they don't further separate this category into treated and untreated, and location (e.g. Sri Lanka, Madagascar, Thailand). That all said, the wholesale prices they have listed for stones in your weight class are: $350 - $900/ct in the Good range; $900 - $2,800/ct in the Fine range; and $2,800 on up/ct for Extra Fine. Color is the biggest factor in determining quality and I would say that based on your photo, if reasonably accurate, that you are probably in the Good to maybe Fine range. A couple of other things to be considered. I personally find the "wholesale" prices high in The Guide, so bare that in mind. Secondly, the prices above assume heat treatment, so you should expect a significant premium on the price of your stone if its truly unheated. Finally, in the preamble and introductory discussion, the authors indicate that there may be a price correction this year:

"Current trade activity indicates that the prospects of a price correction in the global gem market are gaining traction. Dealers interviewed after the Hong Kong show report a surprising lack of large fine colored stones in the market. However, these gems on offer were reportedly finding strong resistance at current price levels. With economic growth occurring at a modest rate in the US and slowing in China, consumer demand in these major markets is restrained, and as such is setting the stage for the potential of a price pullback.

"Should a correction occur, it is expected to be limited to only those gem materials that realized dramatic increases during the past few years. Most notable of these are ruby, sapphire, and tourmaline." [p.3]

I hope that helps give you a ballpark for prices.

 

[chrono]

MB,
I agree with you that The Guide's wholesale pricing seems on the higher end. Perhaps it is geared towards higher end stores?

 

[minousbijoux]

Beats me. I just take it as a starting point and know that we PSers can - and often - do much better. But someone walking into a retail establishment, would pay more than the prices listed. So that is a good starting point from which to negotiate.

I also can't help but wonder how they go about collecting the data that goes into The Guide - is it done on review of actual transactions, or done by verbal representation only? If the latter, I think it would be easy to exaggerate purchase prices to influence gem prices in increasing. Paranoid? Probably, but it could happen.

 

[ika411]

Thanks Minous!

We saw the stone today and took some pics. Here they are! The 1st is inside under fluorescent lights. The 2nd and 3rd were in the sunlight. The last is in the shade outside.

Dimensions: 7.85mm diameter x 4.89mm depth
Carat: 2.21
Origin: Madagascar
Treatment: none
There was an inclusion that could be seen on one side once we knew where it was. It wasn't really noticeable straight on.

In fluorescent lights:


These 2 are in direct sunlight:



Outside in the shade:

 

[minousbijoux]

I'm happy to see a significant difference between your last group of photos and these. This recut sapphire appears to have finer color and of course better cutting. Did you get to see it in different lighting - e.g., not just jeweler's lights, but daylight, incandescent and fluorescent light? From the photos, I would still not describe it as vivid saturation but medium, which would put it at the high end of the good range. To that you would then add a premium for its being unheated (you will want proof of that). I might think that you would be in the $500+/ct range, maybe a little higher due to it being slightly over the 2 carat mark. In summary, somewhere in the $1,100 - $1,600 range. Please note that this is only my guess; I'd be curious as to what others think.

 

[VAgemguy]

What is the cutter's asking price for the stone? If we know that, we can probably give better feedback. The interesting question will be whether he prices it to reflect the material lost in the recut (which may have been 40% or so) or not. In any case, assuming you get an AGL report with the stone, I would think that around $900-1000 per carat is reasonable for that stone. For some comps, check out what Gemfix has available in unheated blues. They have a couple of nice (not "vivid" mind you) stones without the grey/violet, for $1000-1300 p/c. They also have a very well saturated round blue stone of 2.17 cts. for $2250 per carat, so color is definitely king (or queen)!

 

[gongli]

another thing is that way before even tavernier and his famous rule, people knew price is not proportional to carat weight, but more like its square. to talk about price per carat without mentioning the carat range can be misleading. 1 carat sapphires have a lower price per carat than 2 carat sapphires, which have a lower price per carat than, say, 10 carat sapphires.

 

[chrono]

Much better looking than before but still not a vivid stone on my monitor. Probably a medium saturation but excellent cutting!