Searching for a sapphire-opinions please

[BoSnerdley]

Have been searching high and low, far and near, for a sapphire for an engagement ring. I'm knowledgeable in shopping for diamonds, but have undertaken a crash course in sapphires over the past 4+ weeks. I may have a few other selections to solicit input on (mostly existing rings), but for now, I have 2 videos on 2 loose stones I would appreciate peoples' thoughts on. The exact setting is not finalized, but will be a diamond halo around the sapphire, in a likely platinum setting, with the sapphire slightly raised above the diamonds. She prefers a royal blue-like tone, but not so dark that you can't tell it's blue in average ambient lighting.

Sample 1: Almost 5 carats, sort of a vivid blue, roughly 11+mm x 9mm x 6mm, about 67% higher $/carat than Sample 2
video

Sample 2: About 4 carats, royal blue, roughly 10.8mm x 8mm x 5.5mm
video

Both stones are unheated. I'm leaning towards Sample 1 among these 2 choices, given the slightly larger size, a little bit less light leakage and more uniform color tone (I'm seeing a few white spots on the side of Sample 2), and slightly 'brighter' color that won't appear quite as dark. Do the experienced CS fans see something I'm not?

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

Have been searching high and low, far and near, for a sapphire for an engagement ring. I'm knowledgeable in shopping for diamonds, but have undertaken a crash course in sapphires over the past 4+ weeks. I may have a few other selections to solicit input on (mostly existing rings), but for now, I have 2 videos on 2 loose stones I would appreciate peoples' thoughts on. The exact setting is not finalized, but will be a diamond halo around the sapphire, in a likely platinum setting, with the sapphire slightly raised above the diamonds. She prefers a royal blue-like tone, but not so dark that you can't tell it's blue in average ambient lighting.

Sample 1: Almost 5 carats, sort of a vivid blue, roughly 11+mm x 9mm x 6mm, about 67% higher $/carat than Sample 2
video

Sample 2: About 4 carats, royal blue, roughly 10.8mm x 8mm x 5.5mm
video

Both stones are unheated. I'm leaning towards Sample 1 among these 2 choices, given the slightly larger size, a little bit less light leakage and more uniform color tone (I'm seeing a few white spots on the side of Sample 2), and slightly 'brighter' color that won't appear quite as dark. Do the experienced CS fans see something I'm not?

Congratulations!

I personally like the colour of the second one better, the first one looks almost indigo to me through my phone screen. Do you know the stones’ geographic origin?

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

The first one has a steely grey tone to it that I’m not fond of. I like the second one much more. However it is still very dark.

Have you asked if it’s an “open colour” royal blue? Usually that will mean it’s not pitch black!

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I’m just going to use this one as an example

Can you see it is much less dark in the shop lighting compared to your stones?

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Even so, this may be too dark in real life under poor lighting so I worry that your stones will be incredibly dark.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

I think you might also like to consider cornflower blue rather than royal blue, that’s the shade of blue I like most in Sapphire.

 

[Crimson]

@BoSnerdley Congratulations!
I agree with @Sydneyphoenix and @mellowyellowgirl.
I have both royal -blue and cornflower, and if I were to buy another sapphire it would be intense cornflower and not royal blue.
These two sites have nice sapphire hues.

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Gemstone has helpfull on-hand photos.

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[Avondale]

Between these two I'd also prefer the second. The difference in tone isn't that big, they'll both be similarly dark, but the difference in colour and saturation is quite obvious. Unless you're looking specifically for a stone that's more teal, if you saw these two next to each other, chances are your eyes will immediately and instinctively settle on the second one. Colour matters, and the second stone has the superior colour.

I know you currently want specifically a dark stone, and I know it may be starting to get annoying, everyone telling you to not get what you want... But I still have to ask - are you sure? Both of you?

A dark blue stone can usually only be enjoyed under good light, and sometimes specific good light, down to having to position it just right relatively to both the source of the light and your eyes. The rest of the time, unless a person specifically wants and likes a black stone, the enjoyment from the colour is significantly diminished. And then people start asking "what is this stone, it's black?"

Are you sure that she won't start having regrets looking at other sapphires that are distinctly blue at all times? That she won't start wishing for a stone that's more blue than black?

I get the allure of dark blue, I really do, it's mesmerising. The problem is, a sapphire isn't a piece of fabric. A dark blue dress will look dark blue even in a poorly lit room. A dark blue sapphire won't offer the same courtesy.

 

[lovedogs]

I'm worried these will be almost black in real life

 

[dk168]

Each to their own, however, I prefer light blues than the 2 stones posted in the original post myself.

Yes to the others' suggestions for a lighter blue as in Royal Blue.

DK

 

[dk168]

I'm worried these will be almost black in real life

Indeed.

DK

 

[Rfisher]

She prefers a royal blue-like tone, but not so dark that you can't tell it's blue in average ambient lighting.

Can you share a photo of what she feels is ideal?

Plus how does she feel importance of scintillation?
Keeping scintillation with color saturation enough to not darken to inky/black in lower lighting, plus not having extinction pattern (especially oval) = pretty pricey. Not sure what your budget is for 4-5 carats?

 

[Dreamer_D]

How much real life experience do you and the intended wearer have with blue sapphires?

 

[BoSnerdley]

I appreciate everyone's thoughts! Some follow-ups:

Do you know the stones’ geographic origin?

Sample 1: Lab report doesn't specify, but seller states Madagascar
Sample 2: Madagascar

Have you asked if it’s an “open colour” royal blue?

Am asking for a second video/pictures, but existing quantity are somewhat limited. One thing I noticed is that both lab reports have their small images of the stone that appear not terribly dark (this is sample #2)


Yes, I know this is just one small piece of the color puzzle, but I have seen some lab report thumbnail stone images that are pretty dark for dark royal blue stones, so that gave me hope initially that it wasn't overly dark. But will see what some more pictures reveal.

I think you might also like to consider cornflower blue rather than royal blue, that’s the shade of blue I like most in Sapphire.

and I know it may be starting to get annoying, everyone telling you to not get what you want.

LOL - no one's feedback is annoying, and I would say the exact same thing if someone asked me. But it's "been there, done that." If you have the secret to changing her mind, you should immediately patent it...and my wallet will give you a nice 'thank you' gift. For color reference, this was a ring she saw in person that appears very dark in pictures, but to her (in person) it still had 'enough blue' that it was not black in low light and indirect sunlight. All other rings in that store's inventory were "too light" for her taste.



Below is one of a few other pieces on the spreadsheet in consideration:
(this sapphire is actually round-the diamonds are shaped like a heart)

 

[BoSnerdley]

How much real life experience do you and the intended wearer have with blue sapphires?

I have a lot of knowledge (and experience, unfortunately) shopping for diamonds, but this adventure into colored stones has been from the very beginning - and has almost exhausted my capacity. I read through the guides in the PS forum and various posts, and it has helped greatly. I have been only looking at unheated stones (which has partly helped whittle down things at the expense of the budget), but the wide variation in color and tone limited to a computer screen and a few I've seen in person hasn't helped.

She hasn't worn sapphires before, but has looked at a store with a few selections.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Ok I think I know what you’re looking for.

My jeweller promised me that this would never go black, and it doesn’t but it is dark. Apparently there is a market for Royal blue and a lot of Asian based customers are really into it. It is fun to own one but I wouldn’t buy an 8 carat in this shade.

 

[Avondale]

Sounds like she's made up her mind. That's all that matters, really. Everyone's tastes vary. If she's seen sapphires in person and has settled firmly on what she wants, there's nothing more to be said.

Except one thing.

See, something I learned as time passed is, with blue sapphires the intensity of the colour saturation is somewhat tied to how dark the stone is. The most vibrant saturated blues are inherently darker than the cornflower blues, it's just how it is. It's quite possible that's the reason she felt so attracted to the dark blue sapphire.

And I'm pointing it out because, while a strongly saturated blue is likely to be dark, a dark sapphire is definitely not guaranteed to be strongly saturated. The two stones you posted are a perfect example of this. So don't focus on the stone being dark, focus on getting the best blue you can find. Chances are, this alone will limit your options to darker stones.

One thing I noticed is that both lab reports have their small images of the stone that appear not terribly dark (this is sample #2)

That could very well be the result of the camera digital processing of the image. Oftentimes when you show a camera something that's dark in person, it will try to compensate and bump the brightness up through the roof.

Well, since you'll be shopping online, my advice is to pester the vendors for images/video in all different lights, in order to gain a good understanding of what the stone will look like in real life. You don't want to decide based on glamour shots, you want to select the stone based on its actual appearance. This way you're far less likely to be disappointed in person and to want to return it. And that last part is very much in the best interest of the vendors, as well.

 

[Avondale]

Also, show her this and ask her what she thinks of it. Whether she prefers the round sapphire she saw in the jewellery shop, or this one.

Should give you an indication whether a dark tone is actually critical, or if she just wants a very very saturated stone.

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[Autumn in New England]

And congratulations on your impending nuptials!!

I try to give an unbiased opinion before reading other comments (mostly because they're always right, and I want to test myself lol). Clearly you understand #1 will be quite dark. All things being equal, #2 seems to be much more saturated. As far as the white dots are concerned, I think they'll be nearly invisible at eye level (if they aren't lint to begin with).

 

[Autumn in New England]

Between these two I'd also prefer the second. The difference in tone isn't that big, they'll both be similarly dark, but the difference in colour and saturation is quite obvious. Unless you're looking specifically for a stone that's more teal, if you saw these two next to each other, chances are your eyes will immediately and instinctively settle on the second one. Colour matters, and the second stone has the superior colour.

I know you currently want specifically a dark stone, and I know it may be starting to get annoying, everyone telling you to not get what you want... But I still have to ask - are you sure? Both of you?

A dark blue stone can usually only be enjoyed under good light, and sometimes specific good light, down to having to position it just right relatively to both the source of the light and your eyes. The rest of the time, unless a person specifically wants and likes a black stone, the enjoyment from the colour is significantly diminished. And then people start asking "what is this stone, it's black?"

Are you sure that she won't start having regrets looking at other sapphires that are distinctly blue at all times? That she won't start wishing for a stone that's more blue than black?

I get the allure of dark blue, I really do, it's mesmerising. The problem is, a sapphire isn't a piece of fabric. A dark blue dress will look dark blue even in a poorly lit room. A dark blue sapphire won't offer the same courtesy.

Thisssss... ^

 

[Autumn in New England]

I appreciate everyone's thoughts! Some follow-ups:



Sample 1: Lab report doesn't specify, but seller states Madagascar
Sample 2: Madagascar



Am asking for a second video/pictures, but existing quantity are somewhat limited. One thing I noticed is that both lab reports have their small images of the stone that appear not terribly dark (this is sample #2)


Yes, I know this is just one small piece of the color puzzle, but I have seen some lab report thumbnail stone images that are pretty dark for dark royal blue stones, so that gave me hope initially that it wasn't overly dark. But will see what some more pictures reveal.




LOL - no one's feedback is annoying, and I would say the exact same thing if someone asked me. But it's "been there, done that." If you have the secret to changing her mind, you should immediately patent it...and my wallet will give you a nice 'thank you' gift. For color reference, this was a ring she saw in person that appears very dark in pictures, but to her (in person) it still had 'enough blue' that it was not black in low light and indirect sunlight. All other rings in that store's inventory were "too light" for her taste.



Below is one of a few other pieces on the spreadsheet in consideration:
(this sapphire is actually round-the diamonds are shaped like a heart)

Yeah, never go by GRS cert photos... they're always extraordinarily overexposed.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Sounds like she's made up her mind. That's all that matters, really. Everyone's tastes vary. If she's seen sapphires in person and has settled firmly on what she wants, there's nothing more to be said.

Except one thing.

See, something I learned as time passed is, with blue sapphires the intensity of the colour saturation is somewhat tied to how dark the stone is. The most vibrant saturated blues are inherently darker than the cornflower blues, it's just how it is. It's quite possible that's the reason she felt so attracted to the dark blue sapphire.

And I'm pointing it out because, while a strongly saturated blue is likely to be dark, a dark sapphire is definitely not guaranteed to be strongly saturated. The two stones you posted are a perfect example of this. So don't focus on the stone being dark, focus on getting the best blue you can find. Chances are, this alone will limit your options to darker stones.



That could very well be the result of the camera digital processing of the image. Oftentimes when you show a camera something that's dark in person, it will try to compensate and bump the brightness up through the roof.

Well, since you'll be shopping online, my advice is to pester the vendors for images/video in all different lights, in order to gain a good understanding of what the stone will look like in real life. You don't want to decide based on glamour shots, you want to select the stone based on its actual appearance. This way you're far less likely to be disappointed in person and to want to return it. And that last part is very much in the best interest of the vendors, as well.

Again... ^ Couldn't be better put!

 

[BoSnerdley]

My jeweller promised me that this would never go black, and it doesn’t but it is dark.

I would say that's damn near close to a perfect blue - did the lab report or jeweler/gem seller give any statistics on the color and tone? I've only seen the various stats (tone, saturation, etc.) quoted on a handful of websites...

The seller came back with additional videos of my "Sample 2 stone" in 'regular ambient office light':

Video with the stone held in a tweezer showing the front & back views
Video with the stone held between fingers showing the front & back views

He commented:
These videos were clicked using an iPhone in indoor, regular office lighting conditions.

Like any "royal blue" sapphire, this stone, too, can appear a tad bit dark or overcolored in dim or low lighting conditions. However, the stone looks beautiful and attractive even in low lighting conditions (much better than most "royal blue" stones look in low lighting conditions).

 

[BoSnerdley]

One other late entry stone that is competing against the video above: sample 3

The GIA report lists it as transparent, but it doesn't seem as "clear" as the stone in the post immediately above. It seems the Sample 2 stone was more faceted on the underside than this one, although this sample is far shallower: over 15x10 mm area with just a little over 4mm depth! But no windows in the initial video they posted (the pictures so far are just similar versions to what is in the video).

Would you consider sample 2's 'clearness' to be better, or is the type of appearance in sample 3 typically considered more desirable? I know it might be nicer to have more facets reflecting light, but was aiming for some ideal cut diamonds to put around as a halo to provide the main sparkle...

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Noooooo to sample 3! No no no no no!!!! It’s grey and dark and all around terrible with inclusions.

Regarding clearness, I think you mean silk right? That’s up to you! Some people like a crystal clear stone that has sparkle, some like a bit of velvetyness. Sample three is just dreadful though and is straight up included and murky! Nothing velvety about it!

I would say that's damn near close to a perfect blue - did the lab report or jeweler/gem seller give any statistics on the color and tone? I've only seen the various stats (tone, saturation, etc.) quoted on a handful of websites...

Unfortunately I only got the cheapie report for this stone as the project did not warrant my usual favourite Lotus report (I like Lotus because I’ve seen and bought quite a few blues with their reports so I can predict the colour based on what the report says).

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

@BoSnerdley forgot to add the vendor who sold me the stone was adamant that it is Royal blue.

This is Lotus cornflower

Is it too light for her?

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

One more thing, make sure you bargain with this vendor!!!!! You need to be shameless! Bargain down heaps!

 

[Dreamer_D]

I’m nervous that because you have not seen sapphires this color in person that you will be disappointed about how dark it is. How easy are returns?

 

[Avondale]

regular office lighting conditions

So probably fluorescent lights which is the absolute best possible light to view blue anything in. That's the best a blue sapphire is ever going to look. Just so you know.

Ask to see it in both warm and low light. Just so you know and have full understanding of the range of colour.

But no windows in the initial video they posted

On the contrary, this stone is one humongous window. It's just so dark, you see the light passing and observe the blue colour. And even that is only partial. That's why you think there's no window, but it's obvious when you look specifically for any movement from the facets, which is entirely missing. The moment you put it against the skin, the light will have nowhere to go passing through that window, and you'll end up with a black dull blob. The second stone you're considering is so much nicer. That third one, I wouldn't look at it again.

 

[lovedogs]

One other late entry stone that is competing against the video above: sample 3

The GIA report lists it as transparent, but it doesn't seem as "clear" as the stone in the post immediately above. It seems the Sample 2 stone was more faceted on the underside than this one, although this sample is far shallower: over 15x10 mm area with just a little over 4mm depth! But no windows in the initial video they posted (the pictures so far are just similar versions to what is in the video).

Would you consider sample 2's 'clearness' to be better, or is the type of appearance in sample 3 typically considered more desirable? I know it might be nicer to have more facets reflecting light, but was aiming for some ideal cut diamonds to put around as a halo to provide the main sparkle...

Nonononono. That stone is honestly terrible. It will be black and lifeless IRL

 

[BoSnerdley]

I truly appreciate ALL of the feedback! Thanks to the forum I learned about the clear obvious windows (where you see right through clear as day) and now can't 'unsee' them when I notice them in stones....but didn't realize some of these other 'hidden windows' were staring me right in the face! It's a lot more challenging buying CS than I realized. I guess I should be glad she didn't ask for an emerald, since the various green shades on top of the inclusion/oil/heat treatment variables make shopping for sapphires look like a walk in the park! (although she has mentioned she likes emeralds over rubies for a second ring when I asked her about it - thinking I could just revisit some of these places to hopefully find a nice PB or bright red ruby at a fair price)

One more thing, make sure you bargain with this vendor!!!!!

LOL-I have done some bargaining. It's down to what I consider a fair price (under US 3k/carat)